In comparison: Elite Dangerous development has started about the same time as Star Citizen, and with only a fraction of a budget that SC has. Today ED is already in active Beta, and is set to be released in 2014, 2015 the latest. ED of course doesnt have fancy ships like SC does, but their overall universe is pretty much at a level where it can be seen as a full game. Sure, Chris R promises the overall game to have many more game aspects than ED does, but the reality is that so can ED. Today SC doesnt even have a playable multiplayer mod, because they cant fix the netcode, must have chimps running their coding.
SC with 20 times the budget of ED, is no where near the completion level of ED. This is either an unexplainable paradox or else.
Originally posted by apocoluster I guess im in teh Semi silent majority that can actually wait for the game
I think my problem here is a matter of principle. Theyve already made more money than most AAA MMO titles but they are still trying to milk people for more money. And instead of making the actual game a priority , and shortening release-time, they are concentrating on making even more money, which is highly unethical.
What you have in red here is pretty inaccurate actually. Most AAA MMO's cost over 50$ million so... Star Citizen has a little bit more to go.
(I realize it is Kotaku but they actually cite their sources for the budgets and it is the best list I found that actually does list sources.)
Secondly why would a game about FLYING SPACE SHIPS not try to have AS MANY SPACE SHIPS as possible?
I mean the guys doing ships are not the same guys doing environments, coding, character models, ect. ; so why would they not have them continue working on stuff so that once the game launches there is more content?
And I am not saying this game couldn't flop, but I am not really seeing the issue that people have with the way SC is being made. I personally have not given them a red cent and I wont be doing so until they show me they have a working product; but I do not begrudge the people who have backed the game already either.
the difference being if an aaa game flops the loser is the company,in this case if the game flops or not even made,the loser is the players.of course if it flops or is not actually made,you can argue it was a scam to begin with. they had no intention of making a finished product.this kind of development shows how little faith they have in the project itself.think about it they can find no one to back the concept.
Originally posted by apocoluster I guess im in teh Semi silent majority that can actually wait for the game
I think my problem here is a matter of principle. Theyve already made more money than most AAA MMO titles but they are still trying to milk people for more money. And instead of making the actual game a priority , and shortening release-time, they are concentrating on making even more money, which is highly unethical.
What you have in red here is pretty inaccurate actually. Most AAA MMO's cost over 50$ million so... Star Citizen has a little bit more to go.
(I realize it is Kotaku but they actually cite their sources for the budgets and it is the best list I found that actually does list sources.)
Secondly why would a game about FLYING SPACE SHIPS not try to have AS MANY SPACE SHIPS as possible?
I mean the guys doing ships are not the same guys doing environments, coding, character models, ect. ; so why would they not have them continue working on stuff so that once the game launches there is more content?
And I am not saying this game couldn't flop, but I am not really seeing the issue that people have with the way SC is being made. I personally have not given them a red cent and I wont be doing so until they show me they have a working product; but I do not begrudge the people who have backed the game already either.
Alot of those budgets come from well developed companies, that do not shy away from having to pay top dollar to their dev teams, and 2nd, they spend a good chunk of that money on advertisement. SC doesnt have to spend that much money on ANY of that. But I also dont have a problem with them trying to make it to $200 million, but for the love god, do it after the game is released or close to final stages. WIth what they have now, it is MORE than enough to make a very good game without getting another penny, look at ED and their $2.5 mil budget.
OP you need to do yourself a favor and just pretend SC doesn't exist for a little while. Go outside, get a job or a girlfriend, or both. (if you have both of those already, start doing one or the other a lot more). Why anyone would spend more than what an average game costs on a ship for this game is beyond me. Did you think that spending 400 bucks would mean you would get the game faster or something? Do you think that an entire game company is going to push things out before they are ready just because YOU don't think they are going fast enough? You don't even know what they have done and what they don't. They've got a small testing platform out, beyond that you have no idea what is being worked on or by whom.
Seriously, you just need to take a step back and exhibit some patience. I own both SC and ED and I can tell you right now that ED isn't putting one tenth the amount of detail into the aerodynamic lego designs they call ships. But they are on track for a 2014 release. What they have playable right now reflects that. Where SC is also on track for a 2016 release. Did you not notice that little detail when you busy throwing money away on ships you could get for free when the game launches? 2016, ya that's right. Late 2016 at that. What they have playable right now seems pretty good to me for a game that isn't supposed to be out for another 2 full years.
So you have a choice here, either cry and moan and claim to be some sort of victim for 2 more years, or wait patiently like an adult for the game to be released like the rest of us. What SC doesn't or doesn't do to raise however much development money they think they need or want shouldn't even concern you. You bought a game with access to alpha and beta that's all. You didn't buy a development speed button that you can spam to get what you want faster.
OP you need to do yourself a favor and just pretend SC doesn't exist for a little while. Go outside, get a job or a girlfriend, or both. (if you have both of those already, start doing one or the other a lot more). Why anyone would spend more than what an average game costs on a ship for this game is beyond me. Did you think that spending 400 bucks would mean you would get the game faster or something? Do you think that an entire game company is going to push things out before they are ready just because YOU don't think they are going fast enough? You don't even know what they have done and what they don't. They've got a small testing platform out, beyond that you have no idea what is being worked on or by whom.
Seriously, you just need to take a step back and exhibit some patience. I own both SC and ED and I can tell you right now that ED isn't putting one tenth the amount of detail into the aerodynamic lego designs they call ships. But they are on track for a 2014 release. What they have playable right now reflects that. Where SC is also on track for a 2016 release. Did you not notice that little detail when you busy throwing money away on ships you could get for free when the game launches? 2016, ya that's right. Late 2016 at that. What they have playable right now seems pretty good to me for a game that isn't supposed to be out for another 2 full years.
So you have a choice here, either cry and moan and claim to be some sort of victim for 2 more years, or wait patiently like an adult for the game to be released like the rest of us. What SC doesn't or doesn't do to raise however much development money they think they need or want shouldn't even concern you. You bought a game with access to alpha and beta that's all. You didn't buy a development speed button that you can spam to get what you want faster.
I can understand people wanting to help fund a "vision" , because thats what the game currently is- A vision derived from the dreams of Chris Roberts -> making a top shelf space sim with all the features of an mmo and all the action combat of Wing Commander
What i can't understand is the prices they demand for the ships..I would never, ever pay tripple the amount of a complete AAA game for a single ship that is probably kinda crap anyways...140 dollars for a virtual ship...seriously?..Should be like 10 for the low end and 20 max for the high end ships. Prices like that shows greed at this point, where they don't actually need more funding.
And i agree with the OP, so far they've attended a dousin events and have 0 gameplay material not counting the silly featureless "dogfight module" which they struggled to get done...i can't imagine the rest of the game being much more than concept drawings atm.
. We'll continiue to see to more ships and watch videos where they talk about the game and show us absolutely nothing until the funds dry up..because it doesn't seem to be moving anywhere.
I can understand people wanting to help fund a "vision" , because thats what the game currently is- A vision derived from the dreams of Chris Roberts -> making a top shelf space sim with all the features of an mmo and all the action combat of Wing Commander
What i can't understand is the prices they demand for the ships..I would never, ever pay tripple the amount of a complete AAA game for a single ship that is probably kinda crap anyways...140 dollars for a virtual ship...seriously?..Should be like 10 for the low end and 20 max for the high end ships. Prices like that shows greed at this point, where they don't actually need more funding.
And i agree with the OP, so far they've attended a dousin events and have 0 gameplay material not counting the silly featureless "dogfight module" which they struggled to get done...i can't imagine the rest of the game being much more than concept drawings atm.
. We'll continiue to see to more ships and watch videos where they talk about the game and show us absolutely nothing until the funds dry up..because it doesn't seem to be moving anywhere.
So pledging for a vision is ok but if you get a ship as a bonus it become less of a deal ? And what makes you think that they don't need more funding ? The project changed from what it started as, the game they want to make now will probably require the usual 100-200 milion any other AAA mmo needs.
If you are really that worried about your money I don't see why you would pledge in the first place. It is obviously for people that believe in it and don't care to drop the money on something that they probably won't see for another 2 years at least.
Personally I wan't to see hundreds of ships. Of the 200-250 devs working on the game they most likely don't have more than 2 or 3 working on those anyway.
Originally posted by Katilla why in the hell would anyone pay real money for a ship in a game if they can not even fly it?
Why not ? Money is easy to make, might as well send it to people that can use it.
But i think that's what the underlining problem here it seems, there being sent this money for it to be used to develop the game, but nothings happening.
Not been following the game much, but i swear it was like between 2 - 4 months ago i heard about this dogfight sim stuff and to have no info on development or something up until now is, tbh very shit lol. think anyone who invest into somthing and nothing has come out of it over a certain amount of time has the right to ask questions, if these where investors they would have jumped ship after the first month or so.
Checked out their site, they have more stuff in the shop than most games have when they launch
CiG have done a great job at mind washing consumers but my own opinion is as follows
If these ships are super easy to get ingame I will laugh at all the people who wasted their money. If these ships are impossible to get ingame I will not play the game, and likely no one else will. So people will have wasted their money on a p2w game. If these ships are reasonable to get ingame I will enjoying my version of the game with more content than the backers who have wasted money opting out of said content. Either scenario backing is a terrible idea, and thats excluding all sorts of scenarios like the game is terrible etc. but thanks for funding the game for me.
In comparison: Elite Dangerous development has started about the same time as Star Citizen, and with only a fraction of a budget that SC has. Today ED is already in active Beta, and is set to be released in 2014, 2015 the latest. ED of course doesnt have fancy ships like SC does, but their overall universe is pretty much at a level where it can be seen as a full game. Sure, Chris R promises the overall game to have many more game aspects than ED does, but the reality is that so can ED. Today SC doesnt even have a playable multiplayer mod, because they cant fix the netcode, must have chimps running their coding.
SC with 20 times the budget of ED, is no where near the completion level of ED. This is either an unexplainable paradox or else.
I do agree with the general sentiment that E:D is doing a much better job of making a actual game that star citizen
but a couple of things you said are wrong. aparently E:D development started quite some time before kickstarter, so its been worked on for longer than SC.
secondly the devs of E:D were already a sucessful company, the kickstarter money is not close to thier entire buget of the game. we don't know what the budget is, its probably not as much as SC. but I doubt SC is going to spend all its 50 million on development, so I'm guessing the actual budgeting of both games isn't massively dissimular.
I posted this originally on CIG forums, which of course got quickly locked, and got me banned. Why wouldnt it? CIG cant let anyone interfere with their milking of the sheeple for their money.
CIG is working on these overpriced ships non-stop as if the game already been out. How about concentrate on making the rest of the game, I think theres a plethora of ships already for a game that isnt even 10% complete, 9% of which is ships. How many more variants can you come up? I am sure theres plenty of fans who enjoy this, who have bought their houses and have families with good jobs, they dont mind waiting for the game to come out as they are busy with their lives, and they dont mind buying new "kewl" ships cuz they have enough money to throw at them, but realistically, this is ridiculous that theyve been churning out ships with already overly bloated funding. Meanwhile true gamers are effing tired of these non-stop bullsh1t ship packages. This is not how a normal game development is conducted.
I havent played AC module after the first couple of days i tried it because it's so boring. Although I constantly check the news section, it is always full of either lore nonsense or the news about new ships. I have nothing against CIG making ships to keep themselves from starving once the game is out, but god, release something we can actually enjoy already. Elite Dangerous has pretty much completed their game and it's not half as bad as SC. But of course, it's only natural that devs with a smaller budget care more about their fans satisfaction than money gobbling.
I personally spent $450 on this game already, and highly offended by how they are conducting this game development, I may even be dropping this game if I find another good game to trade this account for.
You're exactly the type of person to scream for a game release then come back 2 months later complaining about not enough options or unfinished game stating they should have not released it until it was complete.
CiG have done a great job at mind washing consumers but my own opinion is as follows
If these ships are super easy to get ingame I will laugh at all the people who wasted their money. If these ships are impossible to get ingame I will not play the game, and likely no one else will. So people will have wasted their money on a p2w game. If these ships are reasonable to get ingame I will enjoying my version of the game with more content than the backers who have wasted money opting out of said content. Either scenario backing is a terrible idea, and thats excluding all sorts of scenarios like the game is terrible etc. but thanks for funding the game for me.
Wasting is a big word. Are you wasting money when you go to a restaurent and pay 100$ for food that don't contain more nutriment that you could of gotten from a 10$ meal ? Are you wasting money when you go see a movie in a theater while you could just wait for it to be on TV ? Are you wasting money when you just decide to get on your bike and go for a 500 miles trip just for kicks. Do you waste money if you just buy a bigger car ?
As long as you get some pleasure out of something, it is not wasted. To some people 500$ is nothing while to others it is a week pay. Everything is relative.
As for the ships, most of them will be easy to get. The upgrades of modules will be the expensive part, and those cannot be bought in the store. But you can buy money so I guess it is down to a model a la EVE.
I own both SC and ED and I can tell you right now that ED isn't putting one tenth the amount of detail into the aerodynamic lego designs they call ships. But they are on track for a 2014 release. What they have playable right now reflects that. Where SC is also on track for a 2016 release. Did you not notice that little detail when you busy throwing money away on ships you could get for free when the game launches? 2016, ya that's right. Late 2016 at that. What they have playable right now seems pretty good to me for a game that isn't supposed to be out for another 2 full years.
The reason ED's ships are as they are is because they are meant to be logical. They aren't selling their ships for dollars hence they don't need to be all fancy to impress. It's also a matter of opinion... personally I prefer the Elite ships because they look as I expect space ships to look. SC ships are completely blinged out with illogical bits and bobs. I don't care for things like that.
Also, you are fooling yourself if you think you're going to be playing the finished SC game in 2016.
I own both SC and ED and I can tell you right now that ED isn't putting one tenth the amount of detail into the aerodynamic lego designs they call ships. But they are on track for a 2014 release. What they have playable right now reflects that. Where SC is also on track for a 2016 release. Did you not notice that little detail when you busy throwing money away on ships you could get for free when the game launches? 2016, ya that's right. Late 2016 at that. What they have playable right now seems pretty good to me for a game that isn't supposed to be out for another 2 full years.
The reason ED's ships are as they are is because they are meant to be logical. They aren't selling their ships for dollars hence they don't need to be all fancy to impress. It's also a matter of opinion... personally I prefer the Elite ships because they look as I expect space ships to look. SC ships are completely blinged out with illogical bits and bobs. I don't care for things like that.
Also, you are fooling yourself if you think you're going to be playing the finished SC game in 2016.
I'm well aware of the design philosophy ED is using and I don't hate it. (I actually really like the game overall) I was just pointing out that there isn't nearly the amount of work and detail going into them. But let's not forget that "logically" , in space, a ship's form doesn't matter at all. You can have flying hockey pucks that look like they were made in Russia out of Volvos and old stove parts or you can have ships that look awesome. I've always been a sci-fi fan so personally I love both aesthetics.
Both the games intend to have atmospheric flight too (hopefully at some point) so the aerodynamic designs of SC aren't totally frivolous. You're right though, ED doesn't have to put much work into their ship designs because as a player you can't even look at your ship when you are flying it or get out and walk around it. Nor can you blow a bunch of individual pieces off one of them like you can in SC. So who cares wtf it looks like. There isn't much reason to make the ships look detailed.
Also, I'm just quoting the information out there about the projected release date. I'm not "fooling myself" about anything. Personally, I'm guessing there will be a delay or 4 (just like every other multiplayer game developed since ever) and it will probably be done in 2017 sometime. But that's just conjecture, neither one of us actually KNOW shit about what will be done when.
I can understand people wanting to help fund a "vision" , because thats what the game currently is- A vision derived from the dreams of Chris Roberts -> making a top shelf space sim with all the features of an mmo and all the action combat of Wing Commander
What i can't understand is the prices they demand for the ships..I would never, ever pay tripple the amount of a complete AAA game for a single ship that is probably kinda crap anyways...140 dollars for a virtual ship...seriously?..Should be like 10 for the low end and 20 max for the high end ships. Prices like that shows greed at this point, where they don't actually need more funding.
And i agree with the OP, so far they've attended a dousin events and have 0 gameplay material not counting the silly featureless "dogfight module" which they struggled to get done...i can't imagine the rest of the game being much more than concept drawings atm.
. We'll continiue to see to more ships and watch videos where they talk about the game and show us absolutely nothing until the funds dry up..because it doesn't seem to be moving anywhere.
and
Originally posted by Jupsto
CiG have done a great job at mind washing consumers but my own opinion is as follows
If these ships are super easy to get ingame I will laugh at all the people who wasted their money. If these ships are impossible to get ingame I will not play the game, and likely no one else will. So people will have wasted their money on a p2w game. If these ships are reasonable to get ingame I will enjoying my version of the game with more content than the backers who have wasted money opting out of said content. Either scenario backing is a terrible idea, and thats excluding all sorts of scenarios like the game is terrible etc. but thanks for funding the game for me.
What both of you.. and most probably a lot of other people did not understand is, that those Ships are not supposed to have ingame value equivalent to the real $ value.
It is quite simple.. they want to crowd source a game.. and not usually as all other crowd funded games you find level of how many interested people can pledge to support your vision, to support he development of the game.
So you set up entry Values for
25$ - Thx for donating
50$ - Double thx for donating
100$ - big thx for donating
250$ - very big thx for donating
500$ - Hurray big thx for donating
1000$ - You are a real supporter thx for donating
and so forth.. And now, to somehow recognize the amount of support you give little gifts to those levels. It could be a forum badge for 1000$ like Whale.. or to appear at the credits. Star Citizen thought Ships would be a good idea.. they have a lot of ships.. backers can see those ships early on.
So they added Ships to every of those pledge levels.. but those ships don't represent that amount of money. In game you will get those ships with ingame money.. and you will most probably not have to play 1 year to get the 1000$ pledge level ship... most probably not even close that time.
And now(and that is even common knowledge if you have read anything about star citizen before pledging or posting, or whatever).. those ships are not like Epic Armor in WoW, too.. Those ships make you not superior. A 1000$ ship can be killed from a few smaller ships.. like it was in all other Space games from Chris Roberts, too.
So yes.. if someone expect pledging 1000$ to get actually anything from the same value ingame is completely off. And anyone not actually want to support that game(without any service in return) and still pledged that much expecting the service in return, didn't read anything about Star Citizen, about the Kickstarter, and is furthermore completely self-deceiving.
And after the game is released noone will care a lot about those how pledged a high amount of money.. and everyone how pledged that much can be happy that he was part of making that game true, or be unhappy that he wasted that much more that other can develop a game... where he is just another player.
And by the way.. it is more or less the same for all Kickstarter.. only for those which will go actually the P2W way, and later on a tagged on Cash Shop for exactly that. But most Kickstarter are not that way.
As example:
Quote from a funded Kickstarter Campaign
"Pledge 10.000$ or more
Pledge Limited (3 left of 3)
Crowdforger Art Lover:
Wayne Reynolds - Patrons at this level get all of the Crowdforger Alpha level rewards. In addition, world-famous Pathfinder artist Wayne Reynolds will paint your hero in the style of his head-to-toe "iconic character" images based on a 300-word description provided by you! The painting will be appear in the Pathfinder Online game as an image of a renowned hero hanging in an important NPC establishment. Additionally, the painting will be used by WizKids to create a prepainted plastic miniature for an upcoming set of Pathfinder Battles miniatures, and we will provide you with 10 copies of that miniature after it is released. You will receive the original painting, and will be given a high-resolution scan for your personal use. You'll also have the ability to use your hero's illustration as a unique avatar on the Goblinworks messageboards. (The copyright to the image, character name, and description will be held by Paizo Publishing, LLC., which reserves the right to reject inappropriate, anachronistic, or vulgar content. Your hero must conform to a race and class combination allowed by the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook.)"
Do you really think that those reward is worth 10.000$ and more? It is not.. and it can not.. the 10.000$ are for developing the game.. and the funder only get a little "thank you" recognition. And with those ship it is exactly the same.
So for everyone wanting to invest money in Star Citizen, to just get that ship, because he fears he will not get it otherwise.. stop it. It is not worth it.. you will get that ship with ingame means in a reasonable amount of time.
Only invest in Star Citizen, if you really want to support the development of that game. Because it is not more than that. At to be very clear about that.. the exact same is true for more or less any other kickstarter, too. So please.. stop beeing idiots.
Edit: And yeah.. in Elite Dangerous you can name for 3000$ a star system. Will you have any advantage of that? IS it worth it? No. That 3000$ are for developing the game. And the recognition for supporting is, that you can name one ingame star system.
I own both SC and ED and I can tell you right now that ED isn't putting one tenth the amount of detail into the aerodynamic lego designs they call ships. But they are on track for a 2014 release. What they have playable right now reflects that. Where SC is also on track for a 2016 release. Did you not notice that little detail when you busy throwing money away on ships you could get for free when the game launches? 2016, ya that's right. Late 2016 at that. What they have playable right now seems pretty good to me for a game that isn't supposed to be out for another 2 full years.
The reason ED's ships are as they are is because they are meant to be logical. They aren't selling their ships for dollars hence they don't need to be all fancy to impress. It's also a matter of opinion... personally I prefer the Elite ships because they look as I expect space ships to look. SC ships are completely blinged out with illogical bits and bobs. I don't care for things like that.
Also, you are fooling yourself if you think you're going to be playing the finished SC game in 2016.
I'm well aware of the design philosophy ED is using and I don't hate it. (I actually really like the game overall) I was just pointing out that there isn't nearly the amount of work and detail going into them. But let's not forget that "logically" , in space, a ship's form doesn't matter at all. You can have flying hockey pucks that look like they were made in Russia out of Volvos and old stove parts or you can have ships that look awesome. I've always been a sci-fi fan so personally I love both aesthetics.
Both the games intend to have atmospheric flight too (hopefully at some point) so the aerodynamic designs of SC aren't totally frivolous.
Well if you're going to make combat ships, it's kind of pointless to make ships with weapons and important pieces of machinery sticking out all over the place
You're right though, ED doesn't have to put much work into their ship designs because as a player you can't even look at your ship when you are flying it or get out and walk around it. Nor can you blow a bunch of individual pieces off one of them like you can in SC. So who cares wtf it looks like. There isn't much reason to make the ships look detailed.
ED has gone a different route. You CAN target separate subsystems of the enemy ship and distribute damage to that... instead of the, largely, random element of SC. I do agree however that the damage system is more complicated in SC.
Also you will be able to walk around in your ship in ED... which will come with the first expansion along with atmospheric flight and landing. Again ED development has chosen a different route. They wanted to get the flying around part perfected then concentrate on the getting out of your ships part.
The more they release about this game, the more I'm convinced it will never see the light of day in it's entirety. Every new article, every "content" release, makes me more and more wary of it's future.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
What i can't understand is the prices they demand for the ships..I would never, ever pay tripple the amount of a complete AAA game for a single ship that is probably kinda crap anyways...140 dollars for a virtual ship...seriously?..Should be like 10 for the low end and 20 max for the high end ships. Prices like that shows greed at this point, where they don't actually need more funding.
You are new to MMOs? CCP / Eve online tried to sell virtual t-shirts for 40 $ per t-shirt , 70 $ for one virtual monocle at 2011 .
Originally posted by apocoluster I guess im in teh Semi silent majority that can actually wait for the game
I think my problem here is a matter of principle. Theyve already made more money than most AAA MMO titles but they are still trying to milk people for more money. And instead of making the actual game a priority , and shortening release-time, they are concentrating on making even more money, which is highly unethical.
I am in the silent minority as well, I will wait until the game is release to buy anything, the devs said that there is no advantage in buying ships now, so I just will wait. I stop posting their forums because no negative posts are allowed. Go and see and you will notice that only feel good posts are allowed or feel good topics are the only one open.
OP you need to do yourself a favor and just pretend SC doesn't exist for a little while. Go outside, get a job or a girlfriend, or both. (if you have both of those already, start doing one or the other a lot more). Why anyone would spend more than what an average game costs on a ship for this game is beyond me. Did you think that spending 400 bucks would mean you would get the game faster or something? Do you think that an entire game company is going to push things out before they are ready just because YOU don't think they are going fast enough? You don't even know what they have done and what they don't. They've got a small testing platform out, beyond that you have no idea what is being worked on or by whom.
Seriously, you just need to take a step back and exhibit some patience. I own both SC and ED and I can tell you right now that ED isn't putting one tenth the amount of detail into the aerodynamic lego designs they call ships. But they are on track for a 2014 release. What they have playable right now reflects that. Where SC is also on track for a 2016 release. Did you not notice that little detail when you busy throwing money away on ships you could get for free when the game launches? 2016, ya that's right. Late 2016 at that. What they have playable right now seems pretty good to me for a game that isn't supposed to be out for another 2 full years.
So you have a choice here, either cry and moan and claim to be some sort of victim for 2 more years, or wait patiently like an adult for the game to be released like the rest of us. What SC doesn't or doesn't do to raise however much development money they think they need or want shouldn't even concern you. You bought a game with access to alpha and beta that's all. You didn't buy a development speed button that you can spam to get what you want faster.
im not desperately waiting for this game, i dont think I ever was, in fact i lost interest long ago, especially after AC module. As i stated in one of my replies, its an issue of principles. And being an investor of this project I feel that any wrongs need to be pointed out. I actually have started to dislike the whole venture, and may bail the ship just because of these issues, but i also may just bank my investment and wait until they actually decide to finish the game, in hopes that this will truly be a great game. But what they are doing now is exploiting the people who put their trust and money in them. They released a barely playable AC module that is also boring beyond belief, and that may be a sign of things to expect from the future development.
Comments
In comparison: Elite Dangerous development has started about the same time as Star Citizen, and with only a fraction of a budget that SC has. Today ED is already in active Beta, and is set to be released in 2014, 2015 the latest. ED of course doesnt have fancy ships like SC does, but their overall universe is pretty much at a level where it can be seen as a full game. Sure, Chris R promises the overall game to have many more game aspects than ED does, but the reality is that so can ED. Today SC doesnt even have a playable multiplayer mod, because they cant fix the netcode, must have chimps running their coding.
SC with 20 times the budget of ED, is no where near the completion level of ED. This is either an unexplainable paradox or else.
the difference being if an aaa game flops the loser is the company,in this case if the game flops or not even made,the loser is the players.of course if it flops or is not actually made,you can argue it was a scam to begin with. they had no intention of making a finished product.this kind of development shows how little faith they have in the project itself.think about it they can find no one to back the concept.
Alot of those budgets come from well developed companies, that do not shy away from having to pay top dollar to their dev teams, and 2nd, they spend a good chunk of that money on advertisement. SC doesnt have to spend that much money on ANY of that. But I also dont have a problem with them trying to make it to $200 million, but for the love god, do it after the game is released or close to final stages. WIth what they have now, it is MORE than enough to make a very good game without getting another penny, look at ED and their $2.5 mil budget.
OP you need to do yourself a favor and just pretend SC doesn't exist for a little while. Go outside, get a job or a girlfriend, or both. (if you have both of those already, start doing one or the other a lot more). Why anyone would spend more than what an average game costs on a ship for this game is beyond me. Did you think that spending 400 bucks would mean you would get the game faster or something? Do you think that an entire game company is going to push things out before they are ready just because YOU don't think they are going fast enough? You don't even know what they have done and what they don't. They've got a small testing platform out, beyond that you have no idea what is being worked on or by whom.
Seriously, you just need to take a step back and exhibit some patience. I own both SC and ED and I can tell you right now that ED isn't putting one tenth the amount of detail into the aerodynamic lego designs they call ships. But they are on track for a 2014 release. What they have playable right now reflects that. Where SC is also on track for a 2016 release. Did you not notice that little detail when you busy throwing money away on ships you could get for free when the game launches? 2016, ya that's right. Late 2016 at that. What they have playable right now seems pretty good to me for a game that isn't supposed to be out for another 2 full years.
So you have a choice here, either cry and moan and claim to be some sort of victim for 2 more years, or wait patiently like an adult for the game to be released like the rest of us. What SC doesn't or doesn't do to raise however much development money they think they need or want shouldn't even concern you. You bought a game with access to alpha and beta that's all. You didn't buy a development speed button that you can spam to get what you want faster.
+1
I can understand people wanting to help fund a "vision" , because thats what the game currently is- A vision derived from the dreams of Chris Roberts -> making a top shelf space sim with all the features of an mmo and all the action combat of Wing Commander
What i can't understand is the prices they demand for the ships..I would never, ever pay tripple the amount of a complete AAA game for a single ship that is probably kinda crap anyways...140 dollars for a virtual ship...seriously?..Should be like 10 for the low end and 20 max for the high end ships. Prices like that shows greed at this point, where they don't actually need more funding.
And i agree with the OP, so far they've attended a dousin events and have 0 gameplay material not counting the silly featureless "dogfight module" which they struggled to get done...i can't imagine the rest of the game being much more than concept drawings atm.
. We'll continiue to see to more ships and watch videos where they talk about the game and show us absolutely nothing until the funds dry up..because it doesn't seem to be moving anywhere.
So pledging for a vision is ok but if you get a ship as a bonus it become less of a deal ? And what makes you think that they don't need more funding ? The project changed from what it started as, the game they want to make now will probably require the usual 100-200 milion any other AAA mmo needs.
If you are really that worried about your money I don't see why you would pledge in the first place. It is obviously for people that believe in it and don't care to drop the money on something that they probably won't see for another 2 years at least.
Personally I wan't to see hundreds of ships. Of the 200-250 devs working on the game they most likely don't have more than 2 or 3 working on those anyway.
jealous trolling attempt
1/10 for nice try badmouthing the ultimate epic space opera of the century
complaining about buying optional ships you can get for free by playing the game is so 2013
then go play Star Trek Online or whatever other game you are promoting
Why not ? Money is easy to make, might as well send it to people that can use it.
And that's exactly why Chris is doing it.....easy to make....lol so true so true. I can see it now:
Ship designer: Hey Chris why are we being moved to making these expensive ships?
Chris: Why not ? Money is easy to make, they might as well send it to people that want it. Preferably us!
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
But i think that's what the underlining problem here it seems, there being sent this money for it to be used to develop the game, but nothings happening.
Not been following the game much, but i swear it was like between 2 - 4 months ago i heard about this dogfight sim stuff and to have no info on development or something up until now is, tbh very shit lol. think anyone who invest into somthing and nothing has come out of it over a certain amount of time has the right to ask questions, if these where investors they would have jumped ship after the first month or so.
Checked out their site, they have more stuff in the shop than most games have when they launch
CiG have done a great job at mind washing consumers but my own opinion is as follows
If these ships are super easy to get ingame I will laugh at all the people who wasted their money.
If these ships are impossible to get ingame I will not play the game, and likely no one else will. So people will have wasted their money on a p2w game.
If these ships are reasonable to get ingame I will enjoying my version of the game with more content than the backers who have wasted money opting out of said content.
Either scenario backing is a terrible idea, and thats excluding all sorts of scenarios like the game is terrible etc. but thanks for funding the game for me.
My blog:
I do agree with the general sentiment that E:D is doing a much better job of making a actual game that star citizen
but a couple of things you said are wrong. aparently E:D development started quite some time before kickstarter, so its been worked on for longer than SC.
secondly the devs of E:D were already a sucessful company, the kickstarter money is not close to thier entire buget of the game. we don't know what the budget is, its probably not as much as SC. but I doubt SC is going to spend all its 50 million on development, so I'm guessing the actual budgeting of both games isn't massively dissimular.
My blog:
You're exactly the type of person to scream for a game release then come back 2 months later complaining about not enough options or unfinished game stating they should have not released it until it was complete.
Wasting is a big word. Are you wasting money when you go to a restaurent and pay 100$ for food that don't contain more nutriment that you could of gotten from a 10$ meal ? Are you wasting money when you go see a movie in a theater while you could just wait for it to be on TV ? Are you wasting money when you just decide to get on your bike and go for a 500 miles trip just for kicks. Do you waste money if you just buy a bigger car ?
As long as you get some pleasure out of something, it is not wasted. To some people 500$ is nothing while to others it is a week pay. Everything is relative.
As for the ships, most of them will be easy to get. The upgrades of modules will be the expensive part, and those cannot be bought in the store. But you can buy money so I guess it is down to a model a la EVE.
The reason ED's ships are as they are is because they are meant to be logical. They aren't selling their ships for dollars hence they don't need to be all fancy to impress. It's also a matter of opinion... personally I prefer the Elite ships because they look as I expect space ships to look. SC ships are completely blinged out with illogical bits and bobs. I don't care for things like that.
Also, you are fooling yourself if you think you're going to be playing the finished SC game in 2016.
..Cake..
I'm well aware of the design philosophy ED is using and I don't hate it. (I actually really like the game overall) I was just pointing out that there isn't nearly the amount of work and detail going into them. But let's not forget that "logically" , in space, a ship's form doesn't matter at all. You can have flying hockey pucks that look like they were made in Russia out of Volvos and old stove parts or you can have ships that look awesome. I've always been a sci-fi fan so personally I love both aesthetics.
Both the games intend to have atmospheric flight too (hopefully at some point) so the aerodynamic designs of SC aren't totally frivolous. You're right though, ED doesn't have to put much work into their ship designs because as a player you can't even look at your ship when you are flying it or get out and walk around it. Nor can you blow a bunch of individual pieces off one of them like you can in SC. So who cares wtf it looks like. There isn't much reason to make the ships look detailed.
Also, I'm just quoting the information out there about the projected release date. I'm not "fooling myself" about anything. Personally, I'm guessing there will be a delay or 4 (just like every other multiplayer game developed since ever) and it will probably be done in 2017 sometime. But that's just conjecture, neither one of us actually KNOW shit about what will be done when.
and
What both of you.. and most probably a lot of other people did not understand is, that those Ships are not supposed to have ingame value equivalent to the real $ value.
It is quite simple.. they want to crowd source a game.. and not usually as all other crowd funded games you find level of how many interested people can pledge to support your vision, to support he development of the game.
So you set up entry Values for
25$ - Thx for donating
50$ - Double thx for donating
100$ - big thx for donating
250$ - very big thx for donating
500$ - Hurray big thx for donating
1000$ - You are a real supporter thx for donating
and so forth.. And now, to somehow recognize the amount of support you give little gifts to those levels. It could be a forum badge for 1000$ like Whale.. or to appear at the credits. Star Citizen thought Ships would be a good idea.. they have a lot of ships.. backers can see those ships early on.
So they added Ships to every of those pledge levels.. but those ships don't represent that amount of money. In game you will get those ships with ingame money.. and you will most probably not have to play 1 year to get the 1000$ pledge level ship... most probably not even close that time.
And now(and that is even common knowledge if you have read anything about star citizen before pledging or posting, or whatever).. those ships are not like Epic Armor in WoW, too.. Those ships make you not superior. A 1000$ ship can be killed from a few smaller ships.. like it was in all other Space games from Chris Roberts, too.
So yes.. if someone expect pledging 1000$ to get actually anything from the same value ingame is completely off. And anyone not actually want to support that game(without any service in return) and still pledged that much expecting the service in return, didn't read anything about Star Citizen, about the Kickstarter, and is furthermore completely self-deceiving.
And after the game is released noone will care a lot about those how pledged a high amount of money.. and everyone how pledged that much can be happy that he was part of making that game true, or be unhappy that he wasted that much more that other can develop a game... where he is just another player.
And by the way.. it is more or less the same for all Kickstarter.. only for those which will go actually the P2W way, and later on a tagged on Cash Shop for exactly that. But most Kickstarter are not that way.
As example:
Quote from a funded Kickstarter Campaign
"Pledge 10.000$ or more
Pledge Limited (3 left of 3)
Crowdforger Art Lover:
Wayne Reynolds - Patrons at this level get all of the Crowdforger Alpha level rewards. In addition, world-famous Pathfinder artist Wayne Reynolds will paint your hero in the style of his head-to-toe "iconic character" images based on a 300-word description provided by you! The painting will be appear in the Pathfinder Online game as an image of a renowned hero hanging in an important NPC establishment. Additionally, the painting will be used by WizKids to create a prepainted plastic miniature for an upcoming set of Pathfinder Battles miniatures, and we will provide you with 10 copies of that miniature after it is released. You will receive the original painting, and will be given a high-resolution scan for your personal use. You'll also have the ability to use your hero's illustration as a unique avatar on the Goblinworks messageboards. (The copyright to the image, character name, and description will be held by Paizo Publishing, LLC., which reserves the right to reject inappropriate, anachronistic, or vulgar content. Your hero must conform to a race and class combination allowed by the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook.)"
Do you really think that those reward is worth 10.000$ and more? It is not.. and it can not.. the 10.000$ are for developing the game.. and the funder only get a little "thank you" recognition. And with those ship it is exactly the same.
So for everyone wanting to invest money in Star Citizen, to just get that ship, because he fears he will not get it otherwise.. stop it. It is not worth it.. you will get that ship with ingame means in a reasonable amount of time.
Only invest in Star Citizen, if you really want to support the development of that game. Because it is not more than that. At to be very clear about that.. the exact same is true for more or less any other kickstarter, too. So please.. stop beeing idiots.
Edit: And yeah.. in Elite Dangerous you can name for 3000$ a star system. Will you have any advantage of that? IS it worth it? No. That 3000$ are for developing the game. And the recognition for supporting is, that you can name one ingame star system.
Well if you're going to make combat ships, it's kind of pointless to make ships with weapons and important pieces of machinery sticking out all over the place
ED has gone a different route. You CAN target separate subsystems of the enemy ship and distribute damage to that... instead of the, largely, random element of SC. I do agree however that the damage system is more complicated in SC.
Also you will be able to walk around in your ship in ED... which will come with the first expansion along with atmospheric flight and landing. Again ED development has chosen a different route. They wanted to get the flying around part perfected then concentrate on the getting out of your ships part.
Both games will be cool to play eventually.
..Cake..
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
You are new to MMOs? CCP / Eve online tried to sell virtual t-shirts for 40 $ per t-shirt , 70 $ for one virtual monocle at 2011 .
agreed
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
im not desperately waiting for this game, i dont think I ever was, in fact i lost interest long ago, especially after AC module. As i stated in one of my replies, its an issue of principles. And being an investor of this project I feel that any wrongs need to be pointed out. I actually have started to dislike the whole venture, and may bail the ship just because of these issues, but i also may just bank my investment and wait until they actually decide to finish the game, in hopes that this will truly be a great game. But what they are doing now is exploiting the people who put their trust and money in them. They released a barely playable AC module that is also boring beyond belief, and that may be a sign of things to expect from the future development.