i believe the east version does have potions that boost stats not sure.. but a lot of ppl are bitching about the labor potions.. these potions
Give you 1000 labor points every 12hours
supposedly you can make 4 characters on 1 account and buy 1 of those potions for each character.. used them and get 4k back max is 5k.. so alot of ppl see that as p2w.. I believe in it as p4c(pay 4 convience)
Best gear and Costumes are made in game.. there is nothing OP PWNAGE in the item mall... everything you can buy in the cash shop can be sold in game..
LP pots are tired to account, so is LP points. Doesn`t matter if u got 1 or 10 cheracter slots. All you can boost is 1000 LP once in 12 h.
Following the P2W description of OP i came to conclusion, that all MMO on the market are P2W.
Doesnt matter how many character you can make or buy potions with, LP is bound account wide, if buying LP potions is limited once every 12 hours. it still make 2000 LP everyday, which is almost double of what a normal PayToPlay (Subscriber) would gain every 24h (2160).
At the end of the day, if you feel all right playing a game with these rules, i think everyone will be happy for you.
Me personnaly, i miss the old days where you could just pay a damn fee montly and not worry about being asked more money to play the very core game (such as gathering....wtf.....crafting)... We finaly get a decent sandbox and its core feature are locked behind a P2W cash shop... What a disgrace to the industry.
Soooooo many shady compagny nowdays its disgusting.
Come to think of it, wildstar and guild wars 2 seems pretty legit. Yet i am stuck playing eso, which wasnt as legit but anyways still more legit then these freaking P2W cash shop.
I hated free to play games from day one, never going to change and nowdays, they are showing me that i was right all along.
*** Beta, now comes the honey moon, first few days in game are nice, so much to learn. Once max level reached, you will get a lot of people screaming P2W and you will all understand why.***
after playing beta 2h~ , quest rewards gear that are unusable, u gotta use 5 labor points if u want to being able to see the stats (u dont know before hand what stats the item will have lol) and of course being able to equip it .....
Meh, play it, don't play it. It's really the only two options you have. Imagine if they came to your house and held you at gun point and forced you to play it... then you wouldn't have freedom of choice. Right now you are free to play or not to play. Let us know when the armed gunmen arrive and we can chat again.
Meh, play it, don't play it. It's really the only two options you have. Imagine if they came to your house and held you at gun point and forced you to play it... then you wouldn't have freedom of choice. Right now you are free to play or not to play. Let us know when the armed gunmen arrive and we can chat again.
So because we have a choice on whether or not to play the game then we do not have a right to discuss our concerns and dislikes? Bad analogies and ignorant thinking apparently run rampant on MMORPG.com
Meh, play it, don't play it. It's really the only two options you have. Imagine if they came to your house and held you at gun point and forced you to play it... then you wouldn't have freedom of choice. Right now you are free to play or not to play. Let us know when the armed gunmen arrive and we can chat again.
So because we have a choice on whether or not to play the game then we do not have a right to discuss our concerns and dislikes? Bad analogies and ignorant thinking apparently run rampant on MMORPG.com
So if he called your opinion ignorant that would be ok ? Or is that only a one way street ?
Meh, play it, don't play it. It's really the only two options you have. Imagine if they came to your house and held you at gun point and forced you to play it... then you wouldn't have freedom of choice. Right now you are free to play or not to play. Let us know when the armed gunmen arrive and we can chat again.
So because we have a choice on whether or not to play the game then we do not have a right to discuss our concerns and dislikes? Bad analogies and ignorant thinking apparently run rampant on MMORPG.com
So if he called your opinion ignorant that would be ok ? Or is that only a one way street ?
But he wasn't questioning an opinion was he? If he were then by all means we can agree to disagree if it comes to that but instead he made a blanket statement telling people they shouldn't discuss stuff on a message board since we aren't being forced to play. Thanks for reinforcing my statement however.
I won't comment on the pay to win portion of this thread..
Only on the comments implying that, even with a monthly subscription, there are still restrictions on anything but novelty items.
If I'm subscribing, I don't expect my storage space to be held for ransom in the item shop. I expect to get the full game, because I'm giving them a monthly fee. I can cut some slack if there is no box price, but I still find things like buying storage space with real money disgusting if I'm subscribing.
TSW has a pretty good system in my opinion: a monthly subscription gets you bonuses (such as character slots), and you also get a set amount of "bonus points" to spend in the item store each month. I honestly feel that's the best route to take in games without a required subscription. If it's optional and you don't get everything in the item store included with box + a sub, then give us currency to use in the item store each month we are subbed. Doesn't have to be boatloads, just enough to convince me my subscription isn't wasteful compared to simply buying from the item store alone.
Why should you even be buying anything in the item store? If you pay a sub, shouldn't you have access to that in-game? That's the part that gets me, people willing to pay a sub and find it *reasonable* to buy things in an item shop. Why? Are we playing Guy's Grocery Game? If it's not in-game, it shouldn't be available anywhere else. You open the door to that sort of itemization, your sub truly is worthless.
I don't post often but I must say I agree completely and in this case I can only say this whole payment model has put me off enough from a game I was rather interested in. I'm sorry Trion but I've not been impressed with the business side how you handled Defiance and the Archeage system is even worse, enough to step away for me. And I wonder if the company is aware how greedy and brash that business model looks?
I am curious if Trion has much say in the whole thing, the way it is handled in Russia was already quite peculiar in my opinion, so maybe XLGames puts constraints on Trion here by contract but I think Trion is desperate enough for money to not offer much resistance if not push gladly ahead anyway ...
Just alone the fact of $150 for playing a game that is already in release status ... unbelievable. I'm not supporting "early access" to a game that is loosing appeal so quickly for me and I'd likely not even pay the monthly sub for more than 3 month ... aka $45. And I've had the chance to test the game in the Russian version as F2P with the English patch and honestly was quite bored quickly on top. So facing the proposition of $150 upfront to have it here in the US, that greedy business model where the value of a subscription is not a "flatrate" but just a first payment step to full content and the fight for land and the rather generic gameplay ... I'm out unfortunately. And I can only urge Trion to reconsider, I think they hurt them self a lot with that approach. This isn't innovative work like Landmark, where I did not mind to pay $100 as a Trailblazer even if I barely have time to play but want to make a statement. Or some honest solid model and rather enjoyable game like Wildstar. Quo vadis Trion?
Played: Pretty much any fantasy MMO, some did not even make it to release ... Favorites: UO, EQ2, Vanguard, Wurm Online, Salem, ESO, Creativerse Playing: ESO, Creativerse, Guild Wars 2 Anticipating: (sigh) ... maybe Ashes of Creation
I take exception to the basic concept of this thread. How does someone "win" in an MMO game? The definition of that is entirely subjective and I expect it is different for each person who plays the game. (And I expect for way too many people it is unachievable.) Whatever goal you set, as soon as X% of the players achieve whatever that goal is, the developers will drop new content and move the goal line. In all my years playing (started with Zork 1) I only know of one online game that actually ends, declares winners, and restarts anew. There are probably others, but they are extremely rare. (note: I'm talking MMO's not RPGs)
The only way to really win playing an MMOGs is to have fun playing the game. If you're playing for any other reason, sooner or later you are going to be disappointed. There is always someone who is crazy enough to put their health and wealth on the line to be that .00001% better then you today: tomorrow its some other fool. Unless you are rich enough to afford to have a game custom built just for you it's not going to meet 100% of your requirements. Massive Multiplayer Online Game's are designed to appeal to a mass audience; imagine that......
if you're not having fun, you are wasting your time and money. Go play something else that is fun for you..
Well with both being even as having the sub and not buying anything else player A still has an advantage. Player A will level faster, obtain more money and other points and very quickly outpace player B. So is this fair? Should all games have something built in to stop people from getting an advantage for being able to play the game longer then others? I will say most people are going to say no although player A has an advantage.
You miss the main point here.
In Archeage you can't play anymore certain parts of the game if your labor points are used up. The game features even on a sub are basically on a timer/lockout. If it was a single dungeon lockout with special loot and there were others in my range - sure, who cares.
But we talk here gathering and crafting and reveiling loot stats to make it usable. So you pay a subscription but have only a very limited amount of points to do these things and easily hit the ceiling with them. Like a slot machine ... which you've rented. Insert more money here if you want to keep doing that, access this feature ... despite paying a subscription.
THAT is the problem.
Personally I don't care if you can do something faster by paying. But in ArcheAge you can't do it AT ALL if not paying on top. No matter how much spare time you had.
Played: Pretty much any fantasy MMO, some did not even make it to release ... Favorites: UO, EQ2, Vanguard, Wurm Online, Salem, ESO, Creativerse Playing: ESO, Creativerse, Guild Wars 2 Anticipating: (sigh) ... maybe Ashes of Creation
FFXIV isn't the best game, but at least they don't have that type of idiocy.
They have said, on multiple occasions, that they set the price high as a barrier to entry because they only wanted a single alpha server. So many people were willing to pay it, they had to put up a second alpha server, and both are busy.
As you grow up, you will learn that prices are often set in order to make an item or service more exclusive, not just based on intrinsic value. This is often called a "luxury purchase". Nothing wrong with it, if there is a market.
You mean like the 16.000 botters they banned recently? I can imagine how busy these must have made the game ... Of course the more tiresome the game design or aquiring certain features/content types, the more likely your servers get ... very busy.
And considering the Trion statement of these accounts being aquired with illegal means, I'm assuming credit card theft, your $150 multiplied with 16.000 makes the interesting number of 2.4 million dollars lost income. Now I can be completely off here but somehow I doubt that the Trion servers are overflowing with SO many people who seriously handed out that money that your exclusivity claim is valid. I'm rather concerned how many of these comrades besides you have indeed handed out cash like you did (?).
Played: Pretty much any fantasy MMO, some did not even make it to release ... Favorites: UO, EQ2, Vanguard, Wurm Online, Salem, ESO, Creativerse Playing: ESO, Creativerse, Guild Wars 2 Anticipating: (sigh) ... maybe Ashes of Creation
I made this post in the alpha forums, but people here might enjoy reading it, Trion is indeed going out of their way to make sure people are nickled and dimed at every turn, they have made deliberate changes to the games core features to move them behind paywalls that even being a patron(subscriber) doesnt circumvent.
I hear what people are saying about labor and needing lots of it, but can you guys not see that isnt a perk?
You're basically being forced into a subscription just to function and enjoy the game.Now you have this loyalty function to reward people who have shown they want to keep the game going and paying monthly, but that is offset by the fact that everything in the loyalty shop is trash( instruments with no stats? a t-shrt? Daru chests that basically convert your loyalty into small amounts of gold/gilda?). And the items you truly would spend loyalty on aren't available (inventory expansion, mounts, gliders, costumes, gender change, race change, land appraisal) and it just surprises me that a lot of people seem to be accepting of this fact.
Trion is double dipping here. There are some unspoken rules when it comes to making a free to play game with a subscription, tera follows them, age of wushu follows them, star wars the old republic follows them, the list goes on. It is simple, if the player is a free to play customer only, he is a drifter, no real commitment to the game, as such he can enjoy basic features, but inventory, dungeons, any activity that can impact the game world or economy in any meaningful way is usually gated by some convince removal mechanics that get that player to commit just a bit more to the game. You get a limited inventory, limited experience gain, limited storage or bank slots, limited character slots the whole nine. And you offset these nuisances by A: Buying the item that frees up that paywall B: Pay the sub and live in a world where none of that nonsense exists.
Look at what we have here, i pay for patron status to show my support, hell i go deep, $150 deep, 3 months patron locked up, i should be golden, my money is reserved for costumes and other quality of life consumables, maybe ill buy my toon a nice dress or something - can i focus on that? NO!
-My patron status gives me the option to purchase 2 additional character slots for a maximum of 4. - Excuse me? I still have to buy them, my sub only gives me the option to purchase additional slots?
-I still have to spend my $20 of my $75 credit on inventory expansion? $40 if i decide to throw my bank into the mix - PER CHARACTER? - I guess i wont be making any alts - except to exploit that labor point potion if they are stupid enough to leave it like that. - Yes, i will exploit it, the same way i will never log off the game unless the servers go down.
I look at the loyalty shop and ask myself, what would i buy from this place... nothing. No Expansion scrolls, No loyalty specific mounts or pet armor, No loyalty specific battle pets, and some weird stat-less instruments. What is here that is supposed to be appealing to me? Labor pots? Maybe, but i might as well go deep if im going to buy those and just commit to using money, because loyalty isnt going to keep up with real world demands anyway.
So now, what is the value of patron status? Lets take a look:
• Bonus online Labor Point regeneration (10 per 5 minutes)
• Offline Labor Point regeneration (5 per 5 minutes)
• Increased maximum Labor Points cap (5000 maximum)
The game isnt playable on an enjoyable level without the above.
• 10% bonus to all Experience gained through combat or labor usage
I could not care less about 10% bonus experience, its nothing, it wont be noticeable at all, and well it shouldn't be, its a perma buff.
• 10% discount on Marketplace purchases (available after launch)
How many purchases a month do i need to make with real money to offset that 15 dollar investment for that 10% discount?
• 5 Loyalty Tokens per day for use in the Loyalty Store (awarded on first login of the day)
Going to have to step up that items in this shop if you want this to be an actual perk, as it stands now, those Daru chests are garbage.
• Ability to claim land by placing farms and houses
• Ability to pay in-game taxes on owned property
This is one of the bread and butter features of the game right? I guess patron for this major feature makes sense, thats a nice perk.
• Ability to post auctions on the Auction House by default
The only one of these that is actually a perk.
The first third of the patron could realistically be labeled as "MUST HAVE" Nobody in alpha at the moment can even argue that any player who wants to seriously play Archage, cannot do so with max 2k Labour points, and 5 online no offline regen - So if you decided youre going to play this game, you just paid $15 for these alone, not because you want to, but because you have to, period. But dont feel bad, this is your reward for paying out of pocket upfront to show your loyalty to Trion. Unless they triple dip. But they wouldnt do that, they wouldnt introduce another item in game that is simply a direct Real money to in game currency conversation that can and will fuck the economy in the long run. There is no way, they hate gold spammers, they want to protect the game economy.
APEX... CREDD...CHRONOSCROLLS... a turd by any other name is still a turd. I hate, hate, HATE these gold for sub items. Why is this here? Cash shop is already in game, if people want the features that come with the sub, pay the damn sub. The only function these item serve is for people to pay their subs with real money, and then add 10 of these on top of it so they can gain a huge influx of in game currency to go with it. IT IS THE VERY DEFINITION of pay to win. And it fucks with the economy in every game it exists within. If youre going to do this, why fuck around, just add the ability to convert gold into credits like every other pay to win game and be done with it. But lets not pretend this is not a pay to win feature. Ive played pay to play MMOs with people who are willing to spend $2000 a week on the game just to keep themselves and their guild on top, APEX adds nothing positive to the game. NOTHING.
Honestly if i could, i would refund my founders pack, and just put $150 bucks straight into the item mall. Because i assure you i could make that go a hell of a lot farther then all of those benefits the founders offers me, especially the 3 month patron it comes with, i would just buy 30 days and make sure come the 29th day i had enough gold to buy 6 months worth of APEX with in game gold.
And why arent more people upset about the fact that there is no damn loot in this game? Monsters only drops 32 flavors of coin purse, but no trash drops, no weapons, no armor, no accessories, NOTHING. Where the fuck is archenum dust coming from? Its certainly not the item mall, already figured that out, so how the hell are you even supposed to maintain a stable crafting economy when the main component has no decent method of acquisition? Are free to play players supposed to spend all of their game gold on EXPENSIVE crafted items only? The only loot to be had is quest reward? Im sorry, did we forget that a major part of the fun in an MMORPG is the adventure? You know, the exploration, the fighting, and the unearthed treasure that comes with it? Why the fuck am i killing that Centaur chieftain if he has no spoils on him? Ive said this in about 18 threads and it honestly bears repeating up until it is addressed - you cannot release this game with no loot. You just cant have a game where crafting is the be all end all, especially when one of the main regents damn near requires you deconstruct copious amounts of gear to get enough to even craft. Its almost as though you dont understand your own system, you already have labor points in game to control the rate of which new items are introduced into the game world, so why the hell is archenum dust nonexistent?
I dont mean to rant, but i like this game, i havent like an open world pvp game since lineage 2, i get that feeling again when i play this game, and as it stands now, If the game released tomorrow in its current state,i would not play it longer then 90 days and that is because that is what comes with my archenum package. I certainly will not spend a dime beyond my $75 credit. Some people might think the game is perfect in its current state, i am not one of those people. It is a great game, solid features, being ruined by poor decisions.
You have absolutely ZERO idea about what you are talking about. go play the korean version which is the original version of this game. changing core game to hide it behind paywall you say? in korean versin, f2p can not build house, they have to pay for land to unlock housing. then comes labor point, in korean version labor points don't regen, once they are gone they are gone for the week, it reset to 2000 next week, the only way to regen is to use labor points pots. should i continue writing more about the "real core game"?
ignorance is not a bliss, it is just simply ignorant.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
You have absolutely ZERO idea about what you are talking about. go play the korean version which is the original version of this game. changing core game to hide it behind paywall you say? in korean versin, f2p can not build house, they have to pay for land to unlock housing. then comes labor point, in korean version labor points don't regen, once they are gone they are gone for the week, it reset to 2000 next week, the only way to regen is to use labor points pots. should i continue writing more about the "real core game"?
ignorance is not a bliss, it is just simply ignorant.
All that rage.
No i dont play the Korean version, i just play this version. And I have no problem with patron status paying for land ownership, i stated that already in my post, it is a necessary thing. but, surely you see the difference between starting with 2000 labour and resetting weekly and regenerating it slowly right?
Lets assume the average player sleeps and only plays 4 to 6 hours a day. That is 240 labor points a day. Means that is 1680 a week if you log on every day and play a MINIMUM of 4 hours. You with me still friend or has the anger blinded you?
So by your own facts, the korean give free to play players a stronger leg to stand on.
Should i quote your silly quote back to you?
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Op you clearly do not have an understanding as to what P2W means. You should of really called this thread "I am unhappy about the payment method!".
As for boosts, yes, they are the things that sell, the company needs to pay its employees in order to make content and maintain the game.
I keep seeing this line touted as if the "patron" status isn't helping them "pay its employees". Just because they are making content, and maintaining the game, doesn't automatically mean the money is only coming from micro-transaction payments, or subscriptions. There's also investors, contracts, and sometimes subsidies from interest groups. Patron status is only one avenue of generating revenue for them, and when your model starts to look like greed, which it does right now, then there will be less subscriptions, which in turn, means it will hurt them in the long-term, therefore, the future content and maintenance will be far worse, as it is proven on the Russian and Korean development side, as well as, many other f2p games.
Yep. What could have been a cash cow is pretty much being turned into a cash grab.
I sincerely doubt that the game is good to a point where you'll be happy to pay for patron status along with shelling out massive bucks for the cash shop labor pots. Even if it is for some people, they will be a minority that will NOT be able to compensate for the masses that won't be cool with being treated like second class while paying for patron status. The current outrage, I think, while limited in scope (not a whole lot of us complaining, and just as many defending Trion) will only have the capacity to grow if and when the game is out with current systems in place.
I bet so many people don't even know or realize how bad this is. But they will find out. And when that realization kicks in we'll just slip into a massive yet steady suscriber bleed, content droughts and making "why AA failed" articles.
We don't play mmo's so people with crazy amounts of money to burn can show how better they are than everyone. Enogh of that in the real world.
Yep. What could have been a cash cow is pretty much being turned into a cash grab.
I sincerely doubt that the game is good to a point where you'll be happy to pay for patron status along with shelling out massive bucks for the cash shop labor pots. Even if it is for some people, they will be a minority that will NOT be able to compensate for the masses that won't be cool with being treated like second class while paying for patron status. The current outrage, I think, while limited in scope (not a whole lot of us complaining, and just as many defending Trion) will only have the capacity to grow if and when the game is out with current systems in place.
I bet so many people don't even know or realize how bad this is. But they will find out. And when that realization kicks in we'll just slip into a massive yet steady suscriber bleed, content droughts and making "why AA failed" articles.
We don't play mmo's so people with crazy amounts of money to burn can show how better they are than everyone. Enogh of that in the real world.
Originally posted by azzamasin You're confusing what Pay to Win actually means. P2W is when you buy power or items that are stronger then what can be acquired in the game through normal means. Buying quality of life improvements or cosmetic features are not B2W no matter how much you want it to be. You spent $150 to get early access to the game and to get a few items to boot.
paying for more storage space in this game is a pay to win aspect. So is labor points.
HOWEVER!...the price point does matter. So if the price point for labor points + storage space + subscription comes out to around $15 a month then is fine because that model is just designed to attract people who are not commited to the game because they want to try it out a bit. having said that, I would prefer a simple 30 day trial.
30 day trial? What mmo offers that? I'm curious to hear. Also, how in the world is storage space P2W? lol.
Originally posted by azzamasin You're confusing what Pay to Win actually means. P2W is when you buy power or items that are stronger then what can be acquired in the game through normal means. Buying quality of life improvements or cosmetic features are not B2W no matter how much you want it to be. You spent $150 to get early access to the game and to get a few items to boot.
paying for more storage space in this game is a pay to win aspect. So is labor points.
HOWEVER!...the price point does matter. So if the price point for labor points + storage space + subscription comes out to around $15 a month then is fine because that model is just designed to attract people who are not commited to the game because they want to try it out a bit. having said that, I would prefer a simple 30 day trial.
30 day trial? What mmo offers that? I'm curious to hear. Also, how in the world is storage space P2W? lol.
Im sitting here reading these posts and cant help but think that you are the very people we have to thank for this payment problem we have today. We had a good system back in the good old days. Bought the game, payed your 15 a month, and went about your way. Not anymore. Now we have a slew of piece meal pricing. Its like the dollar menu at McDonalds. You have no one but yourselves to blame for the current state of MMOs.
Originally posted by xAPOCx Originally posted by gw2foolSurely nobody is very surprised by this.Producing games solely for rich people is the prerogative of the company.They might actually make more money by catering to all players, but it is up to them to decide who they want playing their game.I will continue to play gw2!!!
12 euro a month is surely for them rich boys that drive in ferrari's and lambo's man.... And that bayliner + private jet on their own flight strip....
Comments
Doesnt matter how many character you can make or buy potions with, LP is bound account wide, if buying LP potions is limited once every 12 hours. it still make 2000 LP everyday, which is almost double of what a normal PayToPlay (Subscriber) would gain every 24h (2160).
At the end of the day, if you feel all right playing a game with these rules, i think everyone will be happy for you.
Me personnaly, i miss the old days where you could just pay a damn fee montly and not worry about being asked more money to play the very core game (such as gathering....wtf.....crafting)... We finaly get a decent sandbox and its core feature are locked behind a P2W cash shop... What a disgrace to the industry.
Soooooo many shady compagny nowdays its disgusting.
Come to think of it, wildstar and guild wars 2 seems pretty legit. Yet i am stuck playing eso, which wasnt as legit but anyways still more legit then these freaking P2W cash shop.
I hated free to play games from day one, never going to change and nowdays, they are showing me that i was right all along.
*** Beta, now comes the honey moon, first few days in game are nice, so much to learn. Once max level reached, you will get a lot of people screaming P2W and you will all understand why.***
after playing beta 2h~ , quest rewards gear that are unusable, u gotta use 5 labor points if u want to being able to see the stats (u dont know before hand what stats the item will have lol) and of course being able to equip it .....
in RU servers wasnt like that >.>
Meh, play it, don't play it. It's really the only two options you have. Imagine if they came to your house and held you at gun point and forced you to play it... then you wouldn't have freedom of choice. Right now you are free to play or not to play. Let us know when the armed gunmen arrive and we can chat again.
So because we have a choice on whether or not to play the game then we do not have a right to discuss our concerns and dislikes? Bad analogies and ignorant thinking apparently run rampant on MMORPG.com
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
So if he called your opinion ignorant that would be ok ? Or is that only a one way street ?
Surely nobody is very surprised by this.
Producing games solely for rich people is the prerogative of the company.
They might actually make more money by catering to all players, but it is up to them to decide who they want playing their game.
I will continue to play gw2!!!
But he wasn't questioning an opinion was he? If he were then by all means we can agree to disagree if it comes to that but instead he made a blanket statement telling people they shouldn't discuss stuff on a message board since we aren't being forced to play. Thanks for reinforcing my statement however.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
I don't post often but I must say I agree completely and in this case I can only say this whole payment model has put me off enough from a game I was rather interested in. I'm sorry Trion but I've not been impressed with the business side how you handled Defiance and the Archeage system is even worse, enough to step away for me. And I wonder if the company is aware how greedy and brash that business model looks?
I am curious if Trion has much say in the whole thing, the way it is handled in Russia was already quite peculiar in my opinion, so maybe XLGames puts constraints on Trion here by contract but I think Trion is desperate enough for money to not offer much resistance if not push gladly ahead anyway ...
Just alone the fact of $150 for playing a game that is already in release status ... unbelievable. I'm not supporting "early access" to a game that is loosing appeal so quickly for me and I'd likely not even pay the monthly sub for more than 3 month ... aka $45. And I've had the chance to test the game in the Russian version as F2P with the English patch and honestly was quite bored quickly on top. So facing the proposition of $150 upfront to have it here in the US, that greedy business model where the value of a subscription is not a "flatrate" but just a first payment step to full content and the fight for land and the rather generic gameplay ... I'm out unfortunately. And I can only urge Trion to reconsider, I think they hurt them self a lot with that approach. This isn't innovative work like Landmark, where I did not mind to pay $100 as a Trailblazer even if I barely have time to play but want to make a statement. Or some honest solid model and rather enjoyable game like Wildstar. Quo vadis Trion?
Played: Pretty much any fantasy MMO, some did not even make it to release ...
Favorites: UO, EQ2, Vanguard, Wurm Online, Salem, ESO, Creativerse
Playing: ESO, Creativerse, Guild Wars 2
Anticipating: (sigh) ... maybe Ashes of Creation
I take exception to the basic concept of this thread. How does someone "win" in an MMO game? The definition of that is entirely subjective and I expect it is different for each person who plays the game. (And I expect for way too many people it is unachievable.) Whatever goal you set, as soon as X% of the players achieve whatever that goal is, the developers will drop new content and move the goal line. In all my years playing (started with Zork 1) I only know of one online game that actually ends, declares winners, and restarts anew. There are probably others, but they are extremely rare. (note: I'm talking MMO's not RPGs)
The only way to really win playing an MMOGs is to have fun playing the game. If you're playing for any other reason, sooner or later you are going to be disappointed. There is always someone who is crazy enough to put their health and wealth on the line to be that .00001% better then you today: tomorrow its some other fool. Unless you are rich enough to afford to have a game custom built just for you it's not going to meet 100% of your requirements. Massive Multiplayer Online Game's are designed to appeal to a mass audience; imagine that......
if you're not having fun, you are wasting your time and money. Go play something else that is fun for you..
I have a life, its just different from yours.....
You miss the main point here.
In Archeage you can't play anymore certain parts of the game if your labor points are used up. The game features even on a sub are basically on a timer/lockout. If it was a single dungeon lockout with special loot and there were others in my range - sure, who cares.
But we talk here gathering and crafting and reveiling loot stats to make it usable. So you pay a subscription but have only a very limited amount of points to do these things and easily hit the ceiling with them. Like a slot machine ... which you've rented. Insert more money here if you want to keep doing that, access this feature ... despite paying a subscription.
THAT is the problem.
Personally I don't care if you can do something faster by paying. But in ArcheAge you can't do it AT ALL if not paying on top. No matter how much spare time you had.
Played: Pretty much any fantasy MMO, some did not even make it to release ...
Favorites: UO, EQ2, Vanguard, Wurm Online, Salem, ESO, Creativerse
Playing: ESO, Creativerse, Guild Wars 2
Anticipating: (sigh) ... maybe Ashes of Creation
Op you clearly do not have an understanding as to what P2W means. You should of really called this thread "I am unhappy about the payment method!".
As for boosts, yes, they are the things that sell, the company needs to pay its employees in order to make content and maintain the game.
You mean like the 16.000 botters they banned recently? I can imagine how busy these must have made the game ... Of course the more tiresome the game design or aquiring certain features/content types, the more likely your servers get ... very busy.
And considering the Trion statement of these accounts being aquired with illegal means, I'm assuming credit card theft, your $150 multiplied with 16.000 makes the interesting number of 2.4 million dollars lost income. Now I can be completely off here but somehow I doubt that the Trion servers are overflowing with SO many people who seriously handed out that money that your exclusivity claim is valid. I'm rather concerned how many of these comrades besides you have indeed handed out cash like you did (?).
Played: Pretty much any fantasy MMO, some did not even make it to release ...
Favorites: UO, EQ2, Vanguard, Wurm Online, Salem, ESO, Creativerse
Playing: ESO, Creativerse, Guild Wars 2
Anticipating: (sigh) ... maybe Ashes of Creation
You have absolutely ZERO idea about what you are talking about. go play the korean version which is the original version of this game. changing core game to hide it behind paywall you say? in korean versin, f2p can not build house, they have to pay for land to unlock housing. then comes labor point, in korean version labor points don't regen, once they are gone they are gone for the week, it reset to 2000 next week, the only way to regen is to use labor points pots. should i continue writing more about the "real core game"?
ignorance is not a bliss, it is just simply ignorant.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
All that rage.
No i dont play the Korean version, i just play this version. And I have no problem with patron status paying for land ownership, i stated that already in my post, it is a necessary thing. but, surely you see the difference between starting with 2000 labour and resetting weekly and regenerating it slowly right?
Lets assume the average player sleeps and only plays 4 to 6 hours a day. That is 240 labor points a day. Means that is 1680 a week if you log on every day and play a MINIMUM of 4 hours. You with me still friend or has the anger blinded you?
So by your own facts, the korean give free to play players a stronger leg to stand on.
Should i quote your silly quote back to you?
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
I keep seeing this line touted as if the "patron" status isn't helping them "pay its employees". Just because they are making content, and maintaining the game, doesn't automatically mean the money is only coming from micro-transaction payments, or subscriptions. There's also investors, contracts, and sometimes subsidies from interest groups. Patron status is only one avenue of generating revenue for them, and when your model starts to look like greed, which it does right now, then there will be less subscriptions, which in turn, means it will hurt them in the long-term, therefore, the future content and maintenance will be far worse, as it is proven on the Russian and Korean development side, as well as, many other f2p games.
Yep. What could have been a cash cow is pretty much being turned into a cash grab.
I sincerely doubt that the game is good to a point where you'll be happy to pay for patron status along with shelling out massive bucks for the cash shop labor pots. Even if it is for some people, they will be a minority that will NOT be able to compensate for the masses that won't be cool with being treated like second class while paying for patron status. The current outrage, I think, while limited in scope (not a whole lot of us complaining, and just as many defending Trion) will only have the capacity to grow if and when the game is out with current systems in place.
I bet so many people don't even know or realize how bad this is. But they will find out. And when that realization kicks in we'll just slip into a massive yet steady suscriber bleed, content droughts and making "why AA failed" articles.
We don't play mmo's so people with crazy amounts of money to burn can show how better they are than everyone. Enogh of that in the real world.
Yeah it's very bad. Goobye o/
30 day trial? What mmo offers that? I'm curious to hear. Also, how in the world is storage space P2W? lol.
Because...well i tried to find a reason.
12 euro a month is surely for them rich boys that drive in ferrari's and lambo's man....
And that bayliner + private jet on their own flight strip....