I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam. You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get? NOTHING! The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment. Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO. Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment? Which one would do that? Let me tell you none.
There are episodes of shark tank where people who been on kickstarter come on the show and get invested in...So I guess not none.
There is a guarantee as well, they are bound by law to produce something to give to their backers. If not they can be taken to court. If you check out their FAQ it says they sign something before hand, only problem is kickstarter will not get involved if they think the company actually tried producing something, meaning the mass would have to take them to court by themselves.
Shark tank invests so regardless of the kickstarter or not they are not giving them money like kickstarter did. When a kickstarter company starts to offer profit sharing with its backers, then they'll be on the same ground as shark tank ( kind of )
And one example of the state filing a lawsuit really doesn't open the doors wide on making sure a kickstater always delivers. If a kickstarter could show they actually used that money on the game but just ran out of funding there is nothing anyone could do to them in a court. The kickstarter that is getting sued produced nothing and has no evidence that they even worked on their project.
Isnt it the exact same thing? I invest $20, I either get a return on my investment for a $50-60 game, or the game doesnt produce anything and you lose out on your investment.
How is that different from investing in a company? Someone invests in a company and a a deal is made, if the company does well they get about a 20-30% return on your investment. If the company tanks you get nothing.
So with kickstarter you get a 200-300% return on your investment, investing in a company you get a 20-30% return.
It's classed as a , 'charitable donation', as I recall. This is why Kickstarter is such an absurd idea and could only exist in the games industry, where people will willingly give over their money for some hot air promises, with no protection to themselves.
Investment has some guarantees and is structured around key stage reviews. Also investing works on the principle that targets have to be met before more money is funded. This is smaller amounts, from multiple investors so feels more of a , 'negligence', scam to me. i.e. you've give a small amount relative so you won't notice when it's gone. If you donate money to a charity you can check what the, 'bulk', of the money is being spent on, (in most countries charities have to be registered and so are open to anyone to see their books), but for a profit making venture thats just plain dumb to those giving the money, as there's no protection.
I've said this before but Yogscast won't be the only ones who'll go down this route...
from my own experience, ive backed over 320 KS projects in the last 12 months
25% of them failed their goals (read: I was not charged)
none of them have failed to deliver yet but most have delays
...and that's all it was. It wasn't a scam by the Yogscast. If I were Lewis I would have pulled that money as well. . Only 1 group of people in this situation were running a scam if any and it wasn't Yogscast. You've got to be pretty stupid to hire someone and pay in full up front with no strings attached or maybe a little smart in a attempt to protect you and friends / friends of friends when you start looting.
Lewis / Yogscast seem to be going above and beyond anything that they are required to do in an attempt to make things right. What's Winterkewl done? Tinfoil aside I think it really was just mismanagement. This isn't a good example and never will be as far as reasons to not use Kickstarter. If anything it should reassure a persons faith in the process.
You are donating money to some company, for the development of some theoretical product. In exchange, you theoretically get some some "gift" or other swag if the game is ever released, but if it is not, you get nothing and have no legal rights if it is a bust.
When you "really" invest in a company or project, you are buying the rights to something: a piece of the revenue for some project, equity in the company, or some other form of security, and in so doing legal rights attach.
With KS, you have no rights whatsoever.
If a KS funds they take your money and "try to make a game" and fail, what recourse do you have? Nada.
So, no: it is not investing. And no matter how many times people say it is, it is still not.
Look at the amount of games that get canned during development and aren't crowd funded. Publishers take risks on developing games all the time. Sometimes they lose money, sometimes make a profit.
No one should think kickstarter should be exempt from this notion.
People should go into this thinking they may lose money.
I have to applaud Kickstarter for one thing. They found an amazing way of separating a fool from his/her money.
Having said that. Not everyone who donates via Kickstarter is a fool. I threw money down to a band that I have enjoyed for over a decade, they came under some hard times due to their label and needed to do a crowdfunding campaign to get studio time for their next album. They'd written the songs, just needed to get it professionally produced. And for donating, I got a shirt and a copy of the CD before it officially released. And I helped keep one of my favorite bands in business.
I knew exactly what I was donating for, and the risk involved, and I was ok with the risk/reward ratio.
What I don't understand is the people that donate based on such vague ideas as "I'm going to make a space ship based MMO that will have a lot of sandbox elements, and an open pvp feel. And here's a concept art I drew up". That doesn't tell you anything about what you're going to get.
And yet, they get millions.
So, as I say, Kickstarter has taken full advantage of the concept that there are a LOT of people out there that have no control over their spending.
I can fly higher than an aeroplane. And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes. Hurt - Wars
I have to applaud Kickstarter for one thing. They found an amazing way of separating a fool from his/her money.
Having said that. Not everyone who donates via Kickstarter is a fool. I threw money down to a band that I have enjoyed for over a decade, they came under some hard times due to their label and needed to do a crowdfunding campaign to get studio time for their next album. They'd written the songs, just needed to get it professionally produced. And for donating, I got a shirt and a copy of the CD before it officially released. And I helped keep one of my favorite bands in business.
I knew exactly what I was donating for, and the risk involved, and I was ok with the risk/reward ratio.
What I don't understand is the people that donate based on such vague ideas as "I'm going to make a space ship based MMO that will have a lot of sandbox elements, and an open pvp feel. And here's a concept art I drew up". That doesn't tell you anything about what you're going to get.
And yet, they get millions.
So, as I say, Kickstarter has taken full advantage of the concept that there are a LOT of people out there that have no control over their spending.
It's not just kickstarter.
Alpha/beta testing games used to be a paid profession. Now, thanks to the internet they can charge people money to do it. In some cases in the region of +$100.
I have to applaud Kickstarter for one thing. They found an amazing way of separating a fool from his/her money.Having said that. Not everyone who donates via Kickstarter is a fool. I threw money down to a band that I have enjoyed for over a decade, they came under some hard times due to their label and needed to do a crowdfunding campaign to get studio time for their next album. They'd written the songs, just needed to get it professionally produced. And for donating, I got a shirt and a copy of the CD before it officially released. And I helped keep one of my favorite bands in business.I knew exactly what I was donating for, and the risk involved, and I was ok with the risk/reward ratio.What I don't understand is the people that donate based on such vague ideas as "I'm going to make a space ship based MMO that will have a lot of sandbox elements, and an open pvp feel. And here's a concept art I drew up". That doesn't tell you anything about what you're going to get.And yet, they get millions.So, as I say, Kickstarter has taken full advantage of the concept that there are a LOT of people out there that have no control over their spending.
That's pretty much how I feel and why I started this thread, as the OP though you never want to state your opinion right off the get go if you want a feel for what people really think, there is a good mix of feelings from everyone posting here, separating dummies from money is a good argument, but what about the projects that are legitimate? I just don't believe video game development is legitimate, there are many factors as to why, I would say the primary reason is ramifications of the f2p culture, but there are many other reasons why video games and kickstarter are not a good idea.
I think it's a mistake to consider Kickstarter a way to be an investor. Yes, you are putting some money into the hopes that someone will make a thing you like. But that definitely doesn't make you a shareholder or investor in the classic definition of the word.
Originally posted by allday88 See my above post. It's 1/3 and of that 1/3 some are unfinished and just pushed through anyways cause they were out of money.
from same article -- only 5% outright failed to deliver
the 1/3 you refer to (37%) includes projects still in development with delays
delays are a commonality to most KS regardless of whats being delivered
Ok you are missing what it is saying. Only 37% ever reach fully funded. Of that 37% they broke it down more saying of that 37% 3% gets cancelled. So what it's saying is the failure rate is 65%.
$21 million funded for FAILED projects
$17 million funded for successful/ kind of finished products.
Its a losing bet plain and simple.
I can appreciate someone actually bringing real statistical evidence to the table. However, I physically verified the same projects and every single project in 2009 shipped something. Now I only sampled like 20 projects in 2010 (earliest 20) and only 1 actually died and never delivered anything (Rapstar Heroes). All others delivered something. So while I can appreciate the statistics, I'm not sure about the evaluation that was done or anything else like that. Reviewing 30 projects manually was a major pain in the a$$, so I highly doubt that he manually verified every single project quoted.
As a note, I only verified that the game was actually available for download or purchase or play. I didn't validate the tiers, etc. So I suppose it could be left open to interpretation, but as far as delivering the actual game goes, it seems like a pretty good bet to me. 1 failure of 30?
Well here is another link with pretty much the same outcome, but comes with nice little graphs for you. No offense but taking your figures and and analysis based on 30 games you picked doesn't really mean anything. Based on your flawed method I could go find 30 games that failed 30/30 times.
Thanks again for the link. They actually used the same data to formulate the article.
*sigh* Ok, so I actually found this guys data via the link. I went through 20 titles in his own data and found 6 that were actually, legitimately, delivered. That's just by googling, too. So that's without any intense searching. Also, he only has 5 of 300 records as being definitively cancelled. Of that (in addition to the other 6 of 20 sampling) 3 refunded pledges, 1 is actually delivered now, and 1 the company was bankrupted.
That's just what I found on my lunch break, while I was eating. I hope that provides some additional perspective. So I'm assuming that the answer lies somewhere between here and there, as it generally does on the Internet. What I did appreciate was that he actually gave spreadsheets with all the project names. I'll keep this one offline and maybe update it here and there when I get a chance. However, I'm not sure where he got his information on the failures or level of delivery, etc. but I found a rather large discrepancy in the numbers only 7 months after the article was written. While I suppose it's possible that they were all released within that 7 month period, it leaves a LOT of questions, still, about the collection of the data.
Feel free to plug away and update the list yourself, as well. If you'd like a list of the games he was wrong about, I am more than happy to list them here.
It is more like a place you can donate money for something you are interested in and would like to see become a reality, IMO it is more like a charity and you spend what ever amount you don't mind never seeing again.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
You are donating money to some company, for the development of some theoretical product. In exchange, you theoretically get some some "gift" or other swag if the game is ever released, but if it is not, you get nothing and have no legal rights if it is a bust.
When you "really" invest in a company or project, you are buying the rights to something: a piece of the revenue for some project, equity in the company, or some other form of security, and in so doing legal rights attach.
With KS, you have no rights whatsoever.
If a KS funds they take your money and "try to make a game" and fail, what recourse do you have? Nada.
So, no: it is not investing. And no matter how many times people say it is, it is still not.
This ^
Go read there terms and condition and you will see! People don't read at all before giving away money.
** Backers that support a project on Kickstarter get an inside look at the creative process, and help that project come to life. They also get to choose from a variety of unique rewards offered by the project creator. Rewards vary from project to project, but often include a copy of what is being produced (CD, DVD, book, etc.) or an experience unique to the project.
Project creators keep 100% ownership of their work, and Kickstarter cannot be used to offer equity, financial returns, or to solicit loans.
It's the project creator's responsibility to complete their project. Kickstarter is not involved in the development of the projects themselves.
Kickstarter does not guarantee projects or investigate a creator's ability to complete their project. On Kickstarter, backers (you!) ultimately decide the validity and worthiness of a project by whether they decide to fund it.
Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) This information can serve as a basis for legal recourse if a creator doesn't fulfill their promises. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill.
Originally posted by allday88 I think you are a little confused as to what these articles are saying. Out of all the games in kickstart only 37% get fully funded majority of those the funding was under $20k. Out of that 37% who were fully funded 3% were canceled. So 65% of kickstart projects fail to get funded. Not sure why you are looking up games they already said were fully funded and acting like they said those games were canceled.
What is your point about games that fail to fund? If they don't fund then no one gets charged. Does the funding percentage matter with regards to the original argument? If anything, if the stat is true, it supports the concept that people are discerning about what they support or not.
The majority of crowd funded game are funded at less than $20,000. So of that 37% that actually get funded most are just piles of garbage.
My point was kickstarter for video games is a failed practice. A failure rate of 65% and majority of those that do succeeded get a whopping $20k to build their game.
ok, ok, ok. The article you quoted to me originally here specifically says "Kickstander: Only Around A Third of Kickstarted Video Game Projects Fully Deliver To Their Backers"
To me, Kickstarted says fully funded. Also, he mentions in the first paragraph that he's referring to the 366 Fully Funded Kickstarter video game projects.
Sorry, maybe I mistook the article itself. If what you're saying is that only 37% of games get funded, I'd agree with that. However, that is inconsequential because you aren't charged unless the game itself is fully funded.
There are plenty of video game projects that don't reach their funding goal and, in many cases, that's a good thing. However, there are people actually trying to do cool things and release innovative games (like the guy with the game where you can throw stuff with your brain waves, or The Repopulation is another great example). Also, it's a great avenue for studios who just want to do something a little different, something fresh, or something obscure. It's also great for indie developers, although not entirely necessary.
Originally posted by allday88 I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam.
This! I couldn't agreed more. But some sheeple think when they spend money on a good thing or something when they spend on charity, but charity keeps their 5% just for nothing That's why there so many people to "help others," nobody will move his ass for nothing today. Cu your capitalist system.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.? -Albert Einstein
"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write. So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.
You donate money when you give to a kickstarter request. Sometime you get a little goodie, just like the March of Dimes gives you some address labels, but that is just to get you to donate more.
I was really confused by kickstarter until I started thinking of it like any other donation. BTW non-profits that live on donations have standards they should follow when using the money or they get the attention of the state Attorney General's Office. I bet some kickstarter organization will get the same kind of scrutiny in years to come. AGs like to make headlines standing up for the little guy when it is election time.
I've always thought of kickstarter as a last ditch effort to see your dream come to life, therefore investing (or funding, whatever the heck you wanna call it.) in it has an inherent risk of seeing nothing in return for your investment. It's a simple buyer beware situation. Fund it, and risk outright losing the money to a scammer to try to get a game that will entertain you at a later date, or don't fund it and don't worry about seeing the game.
Either way, kickstarter is not as big of a player in the MMORPG universe as some people make it out to be, in fact, the first truly successful MMO I expect to come out of kickstarter is CU. All the rest either look far too amateur, too cash grabby, or too vaporware to ever see the light of day.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Originally posted by sirphobos Regardless of whether kickstarter is a scam, I can't imagine a situation where backing a pc game is a good idea. The chance of failure is just way too high. I think crowd funding is great in some cases I personally have backed albums from independent musicians. In this case, the chance of failure is far lower, both in chance on the project not getting completed and the amount of money you'd be out. Plus these projects require thousands rather than hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars. Plus, many game kickstarter projects openly admit the goal is not enough to complete the project. Does anyone think the fate of Pantheon would have been different had they raised 800k?
The last money i gave to a project was Reading Rainbow. Give money for a video game..Not in a million years. Just look what happened here. And people still think its a good idea even though this is not the first time its happened. I swear if star citizen fails i will laugh my butt off.
Originally posted by sirphobos Regardless of whether kickstarter is a scam, I can't imagine a situation where backing a pc game is a good idea. The chance of failure is just way too high. I think crowd funding is great in some cases I personally have backed albums from independent musicians. In this case, the chance of failure is far lower, both in chance on the project not getting completed and the amount of money you'd be out. Plus these projects require thousands rather than hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars. Plus, many game kickstarter projects openly admit the goal is not enough to complete the project. Does anyone think the fate of Pantheon would have been different had they raised 800k?
The last money i gave to a project was Reading Rainbow. Give money for a video game..Not in a million years. Just look what happened here. And people still think its a good idea even though this is not the first time its happened. I swear if star citizen fails i will laugh my butt off.
/facepalm
Shadowrun Returns and Divinity Original Sin both turned out to be very good games tho.
Kickstarter can be abused i am sure of it but it also offers chances to create games that otherwise would not see the day of light.
Originally posted by Hariken Originally posted by sirphobos Regardless of whether kickstarter is a scam, I can't imagine a situation where backing a pc game is a good idea. The chance of failure is just way too high. I think crowd funding is great in some cases I personally have backed albums from independent musicians. In this case, the chance of failure is far lower, both in chance on the project not getting completed and the amount of money you'd be out. Plus these projects require thousands rather than hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars. Plus, many game kickstarter projects openly admit the goal is not enough to complete the project. Does anyone think the fate of Pantheon would have been different had they raised 800k?
The last money i gave to a project was Reading Rainbow. Give money for a video game..Not in a million years. Just look what happened here. And people still think its a good idea even though this is not the first time its happened. I swear if star citizen fails i will laugh my butt off.
/facepalm
Shadowrun Returns and Divinity Original Sin both turned out to be very good games tho.
Kickstarter can be abused i am sure of it but it also offers chances to create games that otherwise would not see the day of light.
What happens when Camelot Unchained launches, the game meets everything expected from kickstarter, but it's a total flop and turns out to be corny as hell?
Originally posted by sirphobos Regardless of whether kickstarter is a scam, I can't imagine a situation where backing a pc game is a good idea. The chance of failure is just way too high. I think crowd funding is great in some cases I personally have backed albums from independent musicians. In this case, the chance of failure is far lower, both in chance on the project not getting completed and the amount of money you'd be out. Plus these projects require thousands rather than hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars. Plus, many game kickstarter projects openly admit the goal is not enough to complete the project. Does anyone think the fate of Pantheon would have been different had they raised 800k?
The last money i gave to a project was Reading Rainbow. Give money for a video game..Not in a million years. Just look what happened here. And people still think its a good idea even though this is not the first time its happened. I swear if star citizen fails i will laugh my butt off.
/facepalm
Shadowrun Returns and Divinity Original Sin both turned out to be very good games tho.
Kickstarter can be abused i am sure of it but it also offers chances to create games that otherwise would not see the day of light.
What happens when Camelot Unchained launches, the game meets everything expected from kickstarter, but it's a total flop and turns out to be corny as hell?
That would just make it the same as AAA developed MMO's, no change really.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Originally posted by sirphobos Regardless of whether kickstarter is a scam, I can't imagine a situation where backing a pc game is a good idea. The chance of failure is just way too high. I think crowd funding is great in some cases I personally have backed albums from independent musicians. In this case, the chance of failure is far lower, both in chance on the project not getting completed and the amount of money you'd be out. Plus these projects require thousands rather than hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars. Plus, many game kickstarter projects openly admit the goal is not enough to complete the project. Does anyone think the fate of Pantheon would have been different had they raised 800k?
The last money i gave to a project was Reading Rainbow. Give money for a video game..Not in a million years. Just look what happened here. And people still think its a good idea even though this is not the first time its happened. I swear if star citizen fails i will laugh my butt off.
/facepalm
Shadowrun Returns and Divinity Original Sin both turned out to be very good games tho.
Kickstarter can be abused i am sure of it but it also offers chances to create games that otherwise would not see the day of light.
What happens when Camelot Unchained launches, the game meets everything expected from kickstarter, but it's a total flop and turns out to be corny as hell?
I suppose everyone who backed it would be happy since you said the game meets everything expected from kickstarter.
The rest would not care about it pretty much like they did before (me included)
What happens if it launches and is a huge sucess tho?
What happens when Camelot Unchained launches, the game meets everything expected from kickstarter, but it's a total flop and turns out to be corny as hell?
What if it's good?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
It's classed as a , 'charitable donation', as I recall. This is why Kickstarter is such an absurd idea and could only exist in the games industry, where people will willingly give over their money for some hot air promises, with no protection to themselves.
Investment has some guarantees and is structured around key stage reviews. Also investing works on the principle that targets have to be met before more money is funded. This is smaller amounts, from multiple investors so feels more of a , 'negligence', scam to me. i.e. you've give a small amount relative so you won't notice when it's gone. If you donate money to a charity you can check what the, 'bulk', of the money is being spent on, (in most countries charities have to be registered and so are open to anyone to see their books), but for a profit making venture thats just plain dumb to those giving the money, as there's no protection.
I've said this before but Yogscast won't be the only ones who'll go down this route...
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
I just finished my first playthrough of Divinity Original Sin clocked in at 88 hrs (according to steam).
88hrs of fun more than most other games over the last few years provided.
For me that was certainly a nice payout for the small investment done. (i think 20 or 25 dollars was my pledge)
...and that's all it was. It wasn't a scam by the Yogscast. If I were Lewis I would have pulled that money as well. . Only 1 group of people in this situation were running a scam if any and it wasn't Yogscast. You've got to be pretty stupid to hire someone and pay in full up front with no strings attached or maybe a little smart in a attempt to protect you and friends / friends of friends when you start looting.
Lewis / Yogscast seem to be going above and beyond anything that they are required to do in an attempt to make things right. What's Winterkewl done? Tinfoil aside I think it really was just mismanagement. This isn't a good example and never will be as far as reasons to not use Kickstarter. If anything it should reassure a persons faith in the process.
i agree w you
but failed FUNDED KS are in the minority
(from my own Kickstarter experiences of over 200 funded projects)
you are taking a risk to help support a product get made that you desire
regarding how great that risk is - is a matter of debate
but i've seen little risk despite all the KS projects I have pledged to
EQ2 fan sites
When you give money to KS, you are NOT investing.
You are donating money to some company, for the development of some theoretical product. In exchange, you theoretically get some some "gift" or other swag if the game is ever released, but if it is not, you get nothing and have no legal rights if it is a bust.
When you "really" invest in a company or project, you are buying the rights to something: a piece of the revenue for some project, equity in the company, or some other form of security, and in so doing legal rights attach.
With KS, you have no rights whatsoever.
If a KS funds they take your money and "try to make a game" and fail, what recourse do you have? Nada.
So, no: it is not investing. And no matter how many times people say it is, it is still not.
Look at the amount of games that get canned during development and aren't crowd funded. Publishers take risks on developing games all the time. Sometimes they lose money, sometimes make a profit.
No one should think kickstarter should be exempt from this notion.
People should go into this thinking they may lose money.
I have to applaud Kickstarter for one thing. They found an amazing way of separating a fool from his/her money.
Having said that. Not everyone who donates via Kickstarter is a fool. I threw money down to a band that I have enjoyed for over a decade, they came under some hard times due to their label and needed to do a crowdfunding campaign to get studio time for their next album. They'd written the songs, just needed to get it professionally produced. And for donating, I got a shirt and a copy of the CD before it officially released. And I helped keep one of my favorite bands in business.
I knew exactly what I was donating for, and the risk involved, and I was ok with the risk/reward ratio.
What I don't understand is the people that donate based on such vague ideas as "I'm going to make a space ship based MMO that will have a lot of sandbox elements, and an open pvp feel. And here's a concept art I drew up". That doesn't tell you anything about what you're going to get.
And yet, they get millions.
So, as I say, Kickstarter has taken full advantage of the concept that there are a LOT of people out there that have no control over their spending.
I can fly higher than an aeroplane.
And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes.
Hurt - Wars
It's not just kickstarter.
Alpha/beta testing games used to be a paid profession. Now, thanks to the internet they can charge people money to do it. In some cases in the region of +$100.
That's pretty much how I feel and why I started this thread, as the OP though you never want to state your opinion right off the get go if you want a feel for what people really think, there is a good mix of feelings from everyone posting here, separating dummies from money is a good argument, but what about the projects that are legitimate? I just don't believe video game development is legitimate, there are many factors as to why, I would say the primary reason is ramifications of the f2p culture, but there are many other reasons why video games and kickstarter are not a good idea.I think it's a mistake to consider Kickstarter a way to be an investor. Yes, you are putting some money into the hopes that someone will make a thing you like. But that definitely doesn't make you a shareholder or investor in the classic definition of the word.
Thanks again for the link. They actually used the same data to formulate the article.
*sigh* Ok, so I actually found this guys data via the link. I went through 20 titles in his own data and found 6 that were actually, legitimately, delivered. That's just by googling, too. So that's without any intense searching. Also, he only has 5 of 300 records as being definitively cancelled. Of that (in addition to the other 6 of 20 sampling) 3 refunded pledges, 1 is actually delivered now, and 1 the company was bankrupted.
That's just what I found on my lunch break, while I was eating. I hope that provides some additional perspective. So I'm assuming that the answer lies somewhere between here and there, as it generally does on the Internet. What I did appreciate was that he actually gave spreadsheets with all the project names. I'll keep this one offline and maybe update it here and there when I get a chance. However, I'm not sure where he got his information on the failures or level of delivery, etc. but I found a rather large discrepancy in the numbers only 7 months after the article was written. While I suppose it's possible that they were all released within that 7 month period, it leaves a LOT of questions, still, about the collection of the data.
Feel free to plug away and update the list yourself, as well. If you'd like a list of the games he was wrong about, I am more than happy to list them here.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Kick starter is not about funding or investments.
It is more like a place you can donate money for something you are interested in and would like to see become a reality, IMO it is more like a charity and you spend what ever amount you don't mind never seeing again.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
This ^
Go read there terms and condition and you will see! People don't read at all before giving away money.
Edit : faq section link of kickstarter : https://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter+basics?ref=footer
** Backers that support a project on Kickstarter get an inside look at the creative process, and help that project come to life. They also get to choose from a variety of unique rewards offered by the project creator. Rewards vary from project to project, but often include a copy of what is being produced (CD, DVD, book, etc.) or an experience unique to the project.
Project creators keep 100% ownership of their work, and Kickstarter cannot be used to offer equity, financial returns, or to solicit loans.
***
Who is responsible for completing a project as promised?
It's the project creator's responsibility to complete their project. Kickstarter is not involved in the development of the projects themselves.
Kickstarter does not guarantee projects or investigate a creator's ability to complete their project. On Kickstarter, backers (you!) ultimately decide the validity and worthiness of a project by whether they decide to fund it.
****
Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?
Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) This information can serve as a basis for legal recourse if a creator doesn't fulfill their promises. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill.
ok, ok, ok. The article you quoted to me originally here specifically says "Kickstander: Only Around A Third of Kickstarted Video Game Projects Fully Deliver To Their Backers"
To me, Kickstarted says fully funded. Also, he mentions in the first paragraph that he's referring to the 366 Fully Funded Kickstarter video game projects.
Sorry, maybe I mistook the article itself. If what you're saying is that only 37% of games get funded, I'd agree with that. However, that is inconsequential because you aren't charged unless the game itself is fully funded.
There are plenty of video game projects that don't reach their funding goal and, in many cases, that's a good thing. However, there are people actually trying to do cool things and release innovative games (like the guy with the game where you can throw stuff with your brain waves, or The Repopulation is another great example). Also, it's a great avenue for studios who just want to do something a little different, something fresh, or something obscure. It's also great for indie developers, although not entirely necessary.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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I dont see why games for 20k could not be good.
I highly doubt its going to be a AAA title but the fact that it got funded would indicate that enough people liked the idea of the game.
This! I couldn't agreed more. But some sheeple think when they spend money on a good thing or something when they spend on charity, but charity keeps their 5% just for nothing
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.? -Albert Einstein
"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.
You donate money when you give to a kickstarter request. Sometime you get a little goodie, just like the March of Dimes gives you some address labels, but that is just to get you to donate more.
I was really confused by kickstarter until I started thinking of it like any other donation. BTW non-profits that live on donations have standards they should follow when using the money or they get the attention of the state Attorney General's Office. I bet some kickstarter organization will get the same kind of scrutiny in years to come. AGs like to make headlines standing up for the little guy when it is election time.
I've always thought of kickstarter as a last ditch effort to see your dream come to life, therefore investing (or funding, whatever the heck you wanna call it.) in it has an inherent risk of seeing nothing in return for your investment. It's a simple buyer beware situation. Fund it, and risk outright losing the money to a scammer to try to get a game that will entertain you at a later date, or don't fund it and don't worry about seeing the game.
Either way, kickstarter is not as big of a player in the MMORPG universe as some people make it out to be, in fact, the first truly successful MMO I expect to come out of kickstarter is CU. All the rest either look far too amateur, too cash grabby, or too vaporware to ever see the light of day.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
The last money i gave to a project was Reading Rainbow. Give money for a video game..Not in a million years. Just look what happened here. And people still think its a good idea even though this is not the first time its happened. I swear if star citizen fails i will laugh my butt off.
/facepalm
Shadowrun Returns and Divinity Original Sin both turned out to be very good games tho.
Kickstarter can be abused i am sure of it but it also offers chances to create games that otherwise would not see the day of light.
The last money i gave to a project was Reading Rainbow. Give money for a video game..Not in a million years. Just look what happened here. And people still think its a good idea even though this is not the first time its happened. I swear if star citizen fails i will laugh my butt off.
/facepalm
Shadowrun Returns and Divinity Original Sin both turned out to be very good games tho.
Kickstarter can be abused i am sure of it but it also offers chances to create games that otherwise would not see the day of light.
What happens when Camelot Unchained launches, the game meets everything expected from kickstarter, but it's a total flop and turns out to be corny as hell?That would just make it the same as AAA developed MMO's, no change really.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
I suppose everyone who backed it would be happy since you said the game meets everything expected from kickstarter.
The rest would not care about it pretty much like they did before (me included)
What happens if it launches and is a huge sucess tho?
What if it's good?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson