WAR was garbage. The PVP was good and combat was OK, but the rest of the game wasn't fun at all. I barely made it out of the first zone before I gave up on that atrocity. I agree with the rest of the list, but I'd say DCUO and Champs are just as good, if not better than City of Heroes. The thing City of Heroes had on those two games was incredible character creation, but that was really it. Tabula Rasa was thoroughly enjoyable, if not a bit contrived. Luckily, we now have Defiance which more than fills the hole that Tabula Rasa left. As far as SWG goes, I had some of my fondest memories playing that game, and I even started playing after the UI revamp. I mostly did the force user quests, social engagements and space combat. I'd kill to have that back(the emulator just isn't the same). Had SWTOR picked up where SWG left off, and picked up the sim like space combat, I feel it would have been madly more successful than it is now. From what I hear the game is doing quite well being free2play, but I find my attention lacking as it's the same exact grind you got from things like World of Warcraft where it ends up at a point where you run the same 3 instances over and over, it's the same flaw that I feel Final Fantasy XIV has. Solid games, and GREAT at what they are doing, just not different enough for veteran MMOers to feel that the game is fresh and fun. In the mean time, Wildstar is taking my attention like crazy. You can do a plethora of content and not get bored or repetitive. The gameplay at endgame feels visceral, and a bit amorphous in that you can do ANY of the content, whether it be dungeons or adventures, and be rewarded to where it actually feels that it was worth your time.
I would have swapped City of Heroes and SWG. SWG was on the borrowed time immediately after the NGE. And as others have mentioned, there's a large number of rose-tinted glasses on this site concerning that game for some reason. The game had severe issues from it launch, many of which were made worse as time went on. City of Heroes had issues at launch as well, but Cryptic and then NCSoft did a great job of polishing the game and adding new content and features at a regular pace.
City of Heroes succeeded exactly because it had no IP backing it. It was all original, thus giving it a feel all it's own which gave us players the sense that our characters where special in so many ways that no other superhero MMO since has come close to matching.
CoX should be number 1! No one in the industry comes close to the character creator that City had. For those who love a super hero MMO, there has not been, nor is there any better!
Warhammer was a steaming pile...how can any of you consider this a good game? Laggy, buggy, crashes and the game felt like it was centered around PvP. Show me one MMO in the last 10 years that is centered arounv PVP that is still successful and that we speak about in a positive light? Bet there aren't many, if any at all. No, it deserved to die.
Notice NCSoft owned two of these and both were making money albeit on the decline. I don't buy NCSoft games any more, you never know when they will yank the carpet from under you.
I have to agree with them killing Warhammer, it was mediocre at best and there were far better games out there to play. It had too many design issues that were not correctable without major pain.
As to SWG, SOE just did not want to pay for the IP anymore and after they NGE'd it, not many wanted to play the game anymore.
Originally posted by mykpfsu Tabula Rasa is still missed. What sucks is that the game itself didn't fail, NCsoft just wanted it dead. It was a good game and about the only game I've played where you were supposed to be in the middle of a war and it actually felt like it. DIdnt play another NCSoft game til GW2.
Tabula Rasa was up for about a year and a half (which is still too short, but much longer than 4 months). It launched in October 2007 and went down at the end of February 2009.
mykpfsu...I too didn't play another NCSoft game until GW2). I loved (and feared) the sudden appearance of dropships in Tabula Rasa, and when the Bane captured a town or base players really came together to take it back.
Combat in TR was similar enough to other MMOs that it was easy to pick up, but the differences kept it very fresh and exciting. Shotguns, for example, had a cone of effect that had to be aimed. At the time, I had played nothing else quite like it. I still have my collector's edition challenge coin, and I regret that I'll never have the opportunity to meet some other TR players and use it.
Originally posted by cujo603 cox, was my first mmo, I have not found any mmo that can replace it. Every mmo since has been single player with chat feature.
Even worse...single player with chat feature....but people still don't talk. Blah!
A good article. I'd replace Tabula Rasa with Vanguard though. I can't think of anyone that even bought Tabula Rasa, let alone played it beyond the first month of release. In fact, I don't even know anyone personally who played it at all. I had to look it up to remember which game it was lol.
Shadowbane, WHO, Vanguard....those are the top 3 games that should still be around. Copy and paste games like WildStar, SWToR, etc. Get to hang around with sub par feature sets and little to no innovation, and actually challenging and fun games such as those 3 are shut down. The world is backwards, backwards I say!
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Out of the list COH and Shadowbane are the big two for me. They were both amazing games and I'm sorry to say, there is no superhero games that even comes CLOSE to COH. Although glad to hear Shadowbane is having a rebirth, google it if your unaware of what I speak. I tried DC and my god it was terrible.... Champions wasn't any better either IMO.
Other than these I would add DAoC. Even though it isn't completely closed down yet but on the way, this is another game that has been amazing for years and it's really hard and sad to see it go. Even though it isn't closed yet, this game would be the #1 hands down once the final day is upon us.
SWG was a game built ahead of it's time with some very lofty goals.
It stretched the limits of what could be done when building an MMO 15 years ago, and opened countless doors for what has been done in terms of coding and game-building since. It was never a perfect game, nor did it ever run perfectly. It always had bugs and issues, but that came as a result of being such an ambitious project.
The sheer size of the game was impressive all by itself. I've yet to see a game with anywhere near the amount of playable gamespace to explore. The crafting system will probably stand as the most complex and thorough in MMO history. The level of character customization is only even approached by very few games if any today. The space component was the equivalent of adding a second MMO to the original game, even today. Even the pet system was diverse and complex.
A lot of factors contributed to the downfall of the game. Some were simply design flaws that left the game uncompetitive against newer MMO's. Other design flaws alienated players, or potential players. Badly planned gambles and even worse public relations by SOE left the game in such a bad state that, try as they might, devs who took over the game in the latter stage of it's lifespan couldn't undo the damage. LucasArts certainly didn't do the game any favors either.
SWG has a legacy of being a game that innovated on the technical side, but is derided on the public side. As this thread shows, the reasons for its downfall will be debated until the game is such a distant memory that people don't remember or don't care. The fact that more than 10 years after it launched, 15 years after development started, and 3 years after it closed, SWG is still being talked about shows that, for better or worse, the game had a profound and lasting effect on the genre.
Vanguard should be in the 2 slot with City of Heroes at #1. Loved CoH and VG is still my favorite MMO to date. Haven't found any world as open and explorable as Telon in any fantasy themedraft MMO since VG.
_________________________________ Vic - "Androzzi here" John - "Vic, your case just busted wide open." Vic - "So close it for me!" John - "Looks like your going to have to close it yourself, SHITTY!!!!"
The first true WoW clone was LotRO, which had nothing of its own to bring to the table....
I followed LotRO from 2004 when it was called Middle Earth Online, a sandbox MMO in development by Turbine, in Providence Rhode Island.
...
Do not try to tell me they didn't intentionally make it a WoW clone. The only redeeming portions of that game left when it launced were remnants from MEO.
I agree with you on LOTRO being a WOW clone. I also followed it from its earlier, much more interesting incarnation to what was ultimately released. Very similar story to SWTOR. Both started as something unique and changed direction sharply to mimic WOW. Insanity...
The fact that the mother of fantasy IPs with some recently massively successful movies did so badly following that design should have communicated clearly to the industry that WOW's success could not be cloned. And it certainly wasn't a dreadful game. It just wasn't new enough to make an impact.
Yup, but no matter how many themeparks do poorly, publishers keep thinking they work because WoW is still making money.
But good lord, Lord of the Rings! The biggest franchise out there! And it never really managed to thrive.
I'll get laughed at for this - but I actually miss Asheron's Call 2 -
I liked the little things that they implemented from a social perspective (i.e. one person could do /drum, and then another person could do /drum2 and they would start to make music together... add nauseum with 100 people playing different instruments).
I also enjoyed their skill system, as you had a tree of skills, similar to many MMO's.. but you didn't have levels, you earned exp and invested that exp in the skills you wanted to master.
Originally posted by mykpfsu Tabula Rasa is still missed. What sucks is that the game itself didn't fail, NCsoft just wanted it dead. It was a good game and about the only game I've played where you were supposed to be in the middle of a war and it actually felt like it. DIdnt play another NCSoft game til GW2.
Tabula Rasa was up for about a year and a half (which is still too short, but much longer than 4 months). It launched in October 2007 and went down at the end of February 2009.
mykpfsu...I too didn't play another NCSoft game until GW2). I loved (and feared) the sudden appearance of dropships in Tabula Rasa, and when the Bane captured a town or base players really came together to take it back.
Combat in TR was similar enough to other MMOs that it was easy to pick up, but the differences kept it very fresh and exciting. Shotguns, for example, had a cone of effect that had to be aimed. At the time, I had played nothing else quite like it. I still have my collector's edition challenge coin, and I regret that I'll never have the opportunity to meet some other TR players and use it.
I have 2 different versions of the challenge coin. One from the CE box, and one that was sent to me by Avatea (if you remember her).
If Destiny is as good as you are inferring, then I will definitely buy it...
SWG pre-NGE for sure - though dont mistake being ahead of the time conceptual (which is very true) and fail to deliver a technical robust game that is not a fleabag of bugs (which is also true). And then they had misjudged the success of WoW and why it happpened (WoW was harvesting the goodwill of millions of Blizzard-Fans) buld up by their other IPs (Fans eager to do the next step of online gaming) that created an avalanche of a success that will never happen again in that way becaust never again will a time respond that much to momentum again (WoW was releasing the same time the Internet became accessible to casuals).
Maybe SoE will have a success formula (i certainly hope so) with EQ:N and still dont understand SWGamers offering a Game about Zombies to them as spiritual home...^^
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
SWG was one of the last MMO's that had real magic. Real charm. Sure it was buggy as all get out, and had a lot of game play issues. But there was something about it that kept you sticking around. To me, it was the last real "gamers" MMO.
A lot of MMO's nowadays don't have that appeal anymore. There all made my corporations that are only concerned about the $$. Sure they make games smoother and faster, but they are mechanical and lifeless, and the storys and worlds they create are meaningless. That's why so many people jump around nowdays, they are searching for that one game that actually means something and has that charm and magic. Sadly, those games are gone.
I enjoy undercutting people in the market place - it's the only PvP a crafter gets.
Good riddance with WAR, they could have based it on the brilliant Warhammer RPG, they could have based in on the tabletop or they could have instead made DaoC 2 but they decided to use the same mechanics we already seen a thousand time in a world that felt very far away from Warhammers "Old world".
The Warhammer fantsy RPG was a masterpiece (that sadly have been destroyed by Fantasy flight games since) and that would have made an amazing PvE game without levels but with an interesting character progress through professions instead. The campaign material is among the best P&P material ever and I would have loved a campaign based on "The enemy within".
The tabletop would have made an awesome RvR game, also without levels but with massive open fighting and control over villages and cities.
And Daoc 2 would have been what Mythic actually could make well.
But no, they decided to go up against Wow as Barnett constantly talked about before launch. Big misstake, the game was already dead when they decided to not really make it Warhammer.
Comments
City of Heroes succeeded exactly because it had no IP backing it. It was all original, thus giving it a feel all it's own which gave us players the sense that our characters where special in so many ways that no other superhero MMO since has come close to matching.
Warhammer was a steaming pile...how can any of you consider this a good game? Laggy, buggy, crashes and the game felt like it was centered around PvP. Show me one MMO in the last 10 years that is centered arounv PVP that is still successful and that we speak about in a positive light? Bet there aren't many, if any at all. No, it deserved to die.
Notice NCSoft owned two of these and both were making money albeit on the decline. I don't buy NCSoft games any more, you never know when they will yank the carpet from under you.
I have to agree with them killing Warhammer, it was mediocre at best and there were far better games out there to play. It had too many design issues that were not correctable without major pain.
As to SWG, SOE just did not want to pay for the IP anymore and after they NGE'd it, not many wanted to play the game anymore.
Tabula Rasa was up for about a year and a half (which is still too short, but much longer than 4 months). It launched in October 2007 and went down at the end of February 2009.
mykpfsu...I too didn't play another NCSoft game until GW2). I loved (and feared) the sudden appearance of dropships in Tabula Rasa, and when the Bane captured a town or base players really came together to take it back.
Combat in TR was similar enough to other MMOs that it was easy to pick up, but the differences kept it very fresh and exciting. Shotguns, for example, had a cone of effect that had to be aimed. At the time, I had played nothing else quite like it. I still have my collector's edition challenge coin, and I regret that I'll never have the opportunity to meet some other TR players and use it.
Little Bill Daggett: I don't deserve this... to die like this.
Will Munny: Deserve's got nothin' to do with it.
Even worse...single player with chat feature....but people still don't talk. Blah!
I miss the pugs in CoX.
"mmorpg.com forum admins are all TROLLS and losers in real life"
My opinion
A good article. I'd replace Tabula Rasa with Vanguard though. I can't think of anyone that even bought Tabula Rasa, let alone played it beyond the first month of release. In fact, I don't even know anyone personally who played it at all. I had to look it up to remember which game it was lol.
Shadowbane, WHO, Vanguard....those are the top 3 games that should still be around. Copy and paste games like WildStar, SWToR, etc. Get to hang around with sub par feature sets and little to no innovation, and actually challenging and fun games such as those 3 are shut down. The world is backwards, backwards I say!
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Out of the list COH and Shadowbane are the big two for me. They were both amazing games and I'm sorry to say, there is no superhero games that even comes CLOSE to COH. Although glad to hear Shadowbane is having a rebirth, google it if your unaware of what I speak. I tried DC and my god it was terrible.... Champions wasn't any better either IMO.
Other than these I would add DAoC. Even though it isn't completely closed down yet but on the way, this is another game that has been amazing for years and it's really hard and sad to see it go. Even though it isn't closed yet, this game would be the #1 hands down once the final day is upon us.
Now we're left with cookie cutter games...
SWG was a game built ahead of it's time with some very lofty goals.
It stretched the limits of what could be done when building an MMO 15 years ago, and opened countless doors for what has been done in terms of coding and game-building since. It was never a perfect game, nor did it ever run perfectly. It always had bugs and issues, but that came as a result of being such an ambitious project.
The sheer size of the game was impressive all by itself. I've yet to see a game with anywhere near the amount of playable gamespace to explore. The crafting system will probably stand as the most complex and thorough in MMO history. The level of character customization is only even approached by very few games if any today. The space component was the equivalent of adding a second MMO to the original game, even today. Even the pet system was diverse and complex.
A lot of factors contributed to the downfall of the game. Some were simply design flaws that left the game uncompetitive against newer MMO's. Other design flaws alienated players, or potential players. Badly planned gambles and even worse public relations by SOE left the game in such a bad state that, try as they might, devs who took over the game in the latter stage of it's lifespan couldn't undo the damage. LucasArts certainly didn't do the game any favors either.
SWG has a legacy of being a game that innovated on the technical side, but is derided on the public side. As this thread shows, the reasons for its downfall will be debated until the game is such a distant memory that people don't remember or don't care. The fact that more than 10 years after it launched, 15 years after development started, and 3 years after it closed, SWG is still being talked about shows that, for better or worse, the game had a profound and lasting effect on the genre.
_________________________________
Vic - "Androzzi here"
John - "Vic, your case just busted wide open."
Vic - "So close it for me!"
John - "Looks like your going to have to close it yourself, SHITTY!!!!"
Yup, but no matter how many themeparks do poorly, publishers keep thinking they work because WoW is still making money.
But good lord, Lord of the Rings! The biggest franchise out there! And it never really managed to thrive.
I'll get laughed at for this - but I actually miss Asheron's Call 2 -
I liked the little things that they implemented from a social perspective (i.e. one person could do /drum, and then another person could do /drum2 and they would start to make music together... add nauseum with 100 people playing different instruments).
I also enjoyed their skill system, as you had a tree of skills, similar to many MMO's.. but you didn't have levels, you earned exp and invested that exp in the skills you wanted to master.
Content was horribly fail, I'll admit that
I have 2 different versions of the challenge coin. One from the CE box, and one that was sent to me by Avatea (if you remember her).
If Destiny is as good as you are inferring, then I will definitely buy it...
If they ever release it on PC that is.
SWG pre-NGE for sure - though dont mistake being ahead of the time conceptual (which is very true) and fail to deliver a technical robust game that is not a fleabag of bugs (which is also true).
And then they had misjudged the success of WoW and why it happpened (WoW was harvesting the goodwill of millions of Blizzard-Fans) buld up by their other IPs (Fans eager to do the next step of online gaming) that created an avalanche of a success that will never happen again in that way becaust never again will a time respond that much to momentum again (WoW was releasing the same time the Internet became accessible to casuals).
Maybe SoE will have a success formula (i certainly hope so) with EQ:N and still dont understand SWGamers offering a Game about Zombies to them as spiritual home...^^
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM
SWG was one of the last MMO's that had real magic. Real charm. Sure it was buggy as all get out, and had a lot of game play issues. But there was something about it that kept you sticking around. To me, it was the last real "gamers" MMO.
A lot of MMO's nowadays don't have that appeal anymore. There all made my corporations that are only concerned about the $$. Sure they make games smoother and faster, but they are mechanical and lifeless, and the storys and worlds they create are meaningless. That's why so many people jump around nowdays, they are searching for that one game that actually means something and has that charm and magic. Sadly, those games are gone.
I enjoy undercutting people in the market place - it's the only PvP a crafter gets.
Good riddance with WAR, they could have based it on the brilliant Warhammer RPG, they could have based in on the tabletop or they could have instead made DaoC 2 but they decided to use the same mechanics we already seen a thousand time in a world that felt very far away from Warhammers "Old world".
The Warhammer fantsy RPG was a masterpiece (that sadly have been destroyed by Fantasy flight games since) and that would have made an amazing PvE game without levels but with an interesting character progress through professions instead. The campaign material is among the best P&P material ever and I would have loved a campaign based on "The enemy within".
The tabletop would have made an awesome RvR game, also without levels but with massive open fighting and control over villages and cities.
And Daoc 2 would have been what Mythic actually could make well.
But no, they decided to go up against Wow as Barnett constantly talked about before launch. Big misstake, the game was already dead when they decided to not really make it Warhammer.