The problem is crafting is a huge part of the game and a ton of the quests require it and your home will require it. Any loot you get will require LP to open bags or identify gear. Thats the killer everything requires you to use your labor points when they shouldn't.
After all the hype i was checking for ArcheAge every once in a while, but this sounds like this game is quite a failure lol.
Originally posted by deavyin Every single one of those potions is by definition pay to win since they give you a benefit over someone who doesn't have one that can only be purchased from the shop and people who pay with real world money will always be able to get potions faster than those who use their in game tokens.
an unfair advantage that free players cant get? No because you can get that all in game without spending a cent.
You are re-defining what it means to be P2W and YES it is an unfair advantage. A person who uses money to purchase an XP potion can do so each time they want only limited by their ability to pay money.
A person who wants to use coins is limited by the amount of coins they can get (which is 5 per day).
Not only is there an incentive to use real world money, but a person with more money, and the willingness to pay it, will always have a significant leg up over a person using coins.
Would you change your argument if:
Xp boost was 100%, lasted for 24 hours, cost 5 dollars real world money and 500 in game coins and you only got 1 coin per day when you logged in (500 days of loggin in).
I mean, by your logic, you can purchase it with in game currency so it's clearly not P2W.
Thats not redefining anything, that is what the majority of players consider P2W. XP boost isnt P2W. Getting to max level does win you the game.
So what about the thousands upon thousands of people who do consider xp boosts P2W? I don't but I'm curious how our opinion is any better than theirs. After all, it's their character, if max level is a win for them but not for us, how is the problem solved?
No F2P system exists out there today that isn't P2W to someone, somewhere. I've even had people say Rift is P2W. People are so different, it's one reason why F2P is universally derided by most MMO gamers.
If your going to whine about P2W then there has to be a win.
The minute one of these crybabies shows me a winner, then I might believe them.
The guy who kicks your arse and takes your packs is the winner.
Originally posted by deavyin Every single one of those potions is by definition pay to win since they give you a benefit over someone who doesn't have one that can only be purchased from the shop and people who pay with real world money will always be able to get potions faster than those who use their in game tokens.
an unfair advantage that free players cant get? No because you can get that all in game without spending a cent.
You are re-defining what it means to be P2W and YES it is an unfair advantage. A person who uses money to purchase an XP potion can do so each time they want only limited by their ability to pay money.
A person who wants to use coins is limited by the amount of coins they can get (which is 5 per day).
Not only is there an incentive to use real world money, but a person with more money, and the willingness to pay it, will always have a significant leg up over a person using coins.
Would you change your argument if:
Xp boost was 100%, lasted for 24 hours, cost 5 dollars real world money and 500 in game coins and you only got 1 coin per day when you logged in (500 days of loggin in).
I mean, by your logic, you can purchase it with in game currency so it's clearly not P2W.
Thats not redefining anything, that is what the majority of players consider P2W. XP boost isnt P2W. Getting to max level does win you the game.
So what about the thousands upon thousands of people who do consider xp boosts P2W? I don't but I'm curious how our opinion is any better than theirs. After all, it's their character, if max level is a win for them but not for us, how is the problem solved?
No F2P system exists out there today that isn't P2W to someone, somewhere. I've even had people say Rift is P2W. People are so different, it's one reason why F2P is universally derided by most MMO gamers.
If your going to whine about P2W then there has to be a win.
The minute one of these crybabies shows me a winner, then I might believe them.
The guy who kicks your arse and takes your packs is the winner.
who then loses it to the next guy who kicks his arse and so on and so on.....
Lots of big winners in videogames.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
If the game were termed to have a free trial & not be F2P, these P2W conversations would not exist.
Symantecs... Thread upon thread & post upon post over the definition of a fictional term.
There is no such thing as F2P...
You are all just pissing into the wind.
I agree that it would change the conversation, but i personally do not think that P2W would be off the table since my main gripe is with the ability to purchase boosts beyond what a subscriber pays.
My main issue with F2P/Free Trial in this game was that they cut off features and people are trying to say it's not P2W.
When it comes to the subscription model it's that a person who subscribes and supports the game with a monthly recurring subscription still is incentivized to pay more in order to maximize efficiency and that seems anti-consumer to me. It's just another way to wring a little more out of your supporters in a way that is entirely unnecessary.
I can recognize your point of view & you are correct. Of course the paid enhancement is not only extremely minute & usless for the majority of players, it is also financially unsound to get ahead this way as you would gain more & pay less with a second patron account.
Of course this could still change. Unlikely but possible. Either way, if this is the wedge issue of a "FTP" game, I think it's doing okay.
Full disclosure: I detest F2P.
Your wrong. Everything in the game uses labor points. Identify gear, open looted items, crafting , harvesting, reporting botters, open a portal It all costs LP. There is no way around that fact and LP drains fast. Thats what makes the LP Pots P2W.
Yes, I know this. I never said it wasn't P2W. In fact I believe if you are able to comprehend the written word, you would plainly see that I agreed.
The pots have a 12 hr cool down. 2 pots a day for minimal gain. Like I said, it would be more benificial to sub another account which is done in games considered not to be P2W. So are you saying a P2P game that you can sub multiple accounts is P2W? Because that's the box you just put yourself in.
Your post is not only incorrect, it borders the line of idiocy.
If you do the math it is 6 pots twice a day for a total of 12. You are only looking at one character. However the LP pool is for all characters on the account which is set to six per account. You can buy one pot per character every twelve hours. That is not minimal because a level 50 players has a 6k lp pool and can fill it every 12 just by making six characters reguardless the server he creates them on.
It takes 3 days before your character is deleted, did you know that ?
I don't see where they changed anything from the original price list to make it less P2W? Maybe I'm missing something, this is the same price list everyone was complaining about already, right? Labor point potions, Salon Certificates (really? Just use in game currency). All kinds of experience boosters, the tax certificates are still there as well.
Really the game is only P2W if you are a crafter though, it shouldn't affect normal players.
I had not seen the list before, hence posting it.
Really, you consider barber shop / salon certs as Pay To WIN?
Yes, the LP pots are still there, with a 12 hour cool down...so where is this unlimited daily LP if your wallet is deep enough that I keep hearing people complain about?
As for XP boosts and things like that, if you read it they are all very small boosts like 10% etc and are almost exactly the same as SWTOR sells in their cash shop (XP boosts etc) and nobody claims SWTOR is P2W...
I was actually very pleasantly surprised, based on the bullshit that gets spread about the game, to find most of the "Pay To Win" cash shop is cosmetic features like costumes and barber shops.
What little "boosts" there are appear to be minor boosts at best.
Also nice to see a decent amount of stuff can be purchased for loyalty tokens...
Not only that I also read that once purchased from the shop, most of this stuff can be sold on the ingame vendors for others to purchase, again like SWTOR.
EDIT: I cannot see even one thing on that list that makes anything P2W....the speed boost look to be like "30% glider speed for 30 seconds" woooooooooaaahhhhh big deal. Even the boosts are like 10% for 60 mins on XP and things like that. It's hardly a difference maker is it?
For the LP pots the p2w is simple. LP is shared account wide and you can have 6 characters per account. However you can buy one LP pot per character every 12 hours so you would be able to buy 6k LP every 12 hours which I hear is the max LP. Hence the P2W. If they make it one LP pot per account instead of per character every 12 hours then we will talk til then the game is P2W.
Could have a 2nd account and use the labor points on that one toward your goals on the first one, 6 characters on that account with 6 LP potions, and then make a 3rd account, with 6 characters per account, and 6 LP potions...
Lol, using the "modern definition" of P2W, all MMO's are actually P2W, it's only the degree that varies !
The player with 2 accounts has a huge advantage over those with only 1 account. He has twice as much storage space as the player with 1 account. He also has a buff-bot alt that he can login simultaneously with his main. He can even multibox, etc.
If the Labour pots are removed from the Cash Shop, will everyone be happy ? Because I can guarantee there will be many, many players who will multiple Patron accounts. Some have even already admitted to buying more than one Archeum Founders Pack !
Lol, using the "modern definition" of P2W, all MMO's are actually P2W, it's only the degree that varies !
The player with 2 accounts has a huge advantage over those with only 1 account. He has twice as much storage space as the player with 1 account. He also has a buff-bot alt that he can login simultaneously with his main. He can even multibox, etc.
If the Labour pots are removed from the Cash Shop, will everyone be happy ? Because I can guarantee there will be many, many players who will multiple Patron accounts. Some have even already admitted to buying more than one Archeum Founders Pack !
the problem is the system of passively gaining labour points.
Should be gained by going out and doing things only.
So all Pay to play games are pay to win then I guess by some peoples definitions here.
You dont WIN anything. The only thing that is even controversial is the labor points potion. Which is only for people too lazy or dumb to figure out it isnt needed. It MIGHT be convenient very early on when youre building a house or farming raw mats like stone, iron, and trees to build a medium or larger house. But all that really does is give you a boost over someone who ismt spending in getting it done faster. There isnt any real advantage to owning a prime piece of land other than convenience or maybe selling it later on for gold. Which is going to be worthless (gold).
Until they start selling PvP armor or boosts or upgrades that you cant get in the game then it isnt even remotely pay to win.
This game COULD have been released as a sub game and many many people would have subbed. But they aredoing what every other game should be doing in this day and age, calling it free to play and then selling shit in the store.
If ESO had gone this route it wouldnt have been a complete failure.
In the end more people will play AA than ESO simply because its free to play (at least until ESO goes free to play itself). AA wont get the box price money but they have made quite a bit on the 150 founders packs. Plus they will have the usual band of people who run through an MMO and spend a few hundred or a couple thousand bucks buying up cash shop crap. Free to play and a cash shop works if it didnt half the games clinging to life with little to no populations would have folded up instead of releasing updates and expansions.
People can rag on it all the want but AA is a decent game. Not perfect because it has an Asian mentality but it is as good as any other game out there right now. if it had more indepth stuff to do at max level other than farmville or PvP it would be much better. But it has a niche and it will continue to have a niche if they can incorporate some varied content it will get even more people to stick around awhile.
Lol, using the "modern definition" of P2W, all MMO's are actually P2W, it's only the degree that varies !
The player with 2 accounts has a huge advantage over those with only 1 account. He has twice as much storage space as the player with 1 account. He also has a buff-bot alt that he can login simultaneously with his main. He can even multibox, etc.
If the Labour pots are removed from the Cash Shop, will everyone be happy ? Because I can guarantee there will be many, many players who will multiple Patron accounts. Some have even already admitted to buying more than one Archeum Founders Pack !
I can think of one modern game that is NOT P2W and that is GW2. The reason being is that at Max level, with most of the armor being equal in PvP, any player can beat any other player based on skill not equipment. That is not true with most games and AA is no exception. ArcheAge is all about equipment. The best armor and weapons are crafted. Crafting means you will need lots of LP. LP means sub, Founders pack AND buying potions from the CS. That IS P2W big time!!!
Cash Shops are getting old and the few smart ones already figured out that they cost more than just subbing. We are just waiting for the rest of the idiots to figure it out so we can be done with them. Let the ridiculous fad die already people.
I can think of one modern game that is NOT P2W and that is GW2. The reason being is that at Max, with most of the armor being equal in PvP, any player can beat any other player based on skill not equipment.
ArcheAge is all about equipment. The best armor and weapons are crafted. Crafting means you will need lots of LP. LP means sub, Founders pack AND buying potions from the CS. That IS P2W big time!!!
The stats gained on upgrading gear is very minimal so it isnt anything like you claim it to be. Stats do not improve you that much for such a minimal gain. I think each gear upgrade is 3 or 4 points per stat and only on whatever stat they have. So 'intro' gear (green) will have stats like 30, 25,20 the Orange variety (3 upgrades better) of that same item will have 44,37,29. I am pretty sure it is a 15% increase per regrade. But at such minimal numbers raw difference isnt extreme.
Thats the problem with min maxer mentality they just look at the end numbers and not the difference in numbers from level to level.
IMO the differential isnt nearly enough to overcome the skill this game requires in combat. Meaning someone with a few points less in stats (or a lot of points less) in stats isnt going to be beaten by an inferior player with better gear. I dont even think the gear safety net other games have is even a factor in AA. In many games more stats and better gear makes up for alot of mistakes, in this game I dont think that is the case.
Lol, using the "modern definition" of P2W, all MMO's are actually P2W, it's only the degree that varies !
The player with 2 accounts has a huge advantage over those with only 1 account. He has twice as much storage space as the player with 1 account. He also has a buff-bot alt that he can login simultaneously with his main. He can even multibox, etc.
If the Labour pots are removed from the Cash Shop, will everyone be happy ? Because I can guarantee there will be many, many players who will multiple Patron accounts. Some have even already admitted to buying more than one Archeum Founders Pack !
I can think of one modern game that is NOT P2W and that is GW2. The reason being is that at Max level, with most of the armor being equal in PvP, any player can beat any other player based on skill not equipment. That is not true with most games and AA is no exception. ArcheAge is all about equipment. The best armor and weapons are crafted. Crafting means you will need lots of LP. LP means sub, Founders pack AND buying potions from the CS. That IS P2W big time!!!
So any game that has a sub and/or a founders pack/collectors edition is P2W now?
There may be a question mark over LP pots currently (which are under review and will LIKELY be tweaked before release, making them 12 hour cool down per account rather than per character for example) which will solve the LP problem.
But you are saying the game is also P2W because it has a sub and a collectors edition? Seriously?
If a subscriber has a cash shop available on top of the sub that sells advantages then it is a horrible business model for the customer.
You dont need a wall of text to see that labor points are more useful for crafting and as someone outlined earlier crafting is a RNG with you going to be making a lot of equipment to get a better tier, to be a "better" player. More like P2BE-MILKED
I can think of one modern game that is NOT P2W and that is GW2. The reason being is that at Max, with most of the armor being equal in PvP, any player can beat any other player based on skill not equipment.
ArcheAge is all about equipment. The best armor and weapons are crafted. Crafting means you will need lots of LP. LP means sub, Founders pack AND buying potions from the CS. That IS P2W big time!!!
The stats gained on upgrading gear is very minimal so it isnt anything like you claim it to be. Stats do not improve you that much for such a minimal gain. I think each gear upgrade is 3 or 4 points per stat and only on whatever stat they have. So 'intro' gear (green) will have stats like 30, 25,20 the Orange variety (3 upgrades better) of that same item will have 44,37,29. I am pretty sure it is a 15% increase per regrade. But at such minimal numbers raw difference isnt extreme.
Thats the problem with min maxer mentality they just look at the end numbers and not the difference in numbers from level to level.
IMO the differential isnt nearly enough to overcome the skill this game requires in combat. Meaning someone with a few points less in stats (or a lot of points less) in stats isnt going to be beaten by an inferior player with better gear. I dont even think the gear safety net other games have is even a factor in AA. In many games more stats and better gear makes up for alot of mistakes, in this game I dont think that is the case.
There is no skill involved with combat in AA. It is very simple. Plant and spam skills. I found it boring and not very exciting. If it was more about dodging and moving during combat, that is skill, this is just your basic WoW mentality type of combat mechanism - there is no skill involved at all. I changed my bow, for example, and went from having to use melee skills at the end to just killing with 4 shots from the bow - that is ALL BASED ON WEAPONS STATS.
I found from level to level, in the beta that changing equipment did make a huge difference in ability during combat. I found it exactly the opposite from what you describe - why is that? You say I don't think this is the case, in this game, well you are wrong, sorry to say.
If this is not p2w then what is really? And, fanbois, donõt even start with "every company wants to make money" because I've seen several cash shops over the years and AA cash shop is pure game breaking at least for me.
There is no skill involved with combat in AA. It is very simple. Plant and spam skills. I found it boring and not very exciting. If it was more about dodging and moving during combat, that is skill, this is just your basic WoW mentality type of combat mechanism - there is no skill involved at all. I changed my bow, for example, and went from having to use melee skills at the end to just killing with 4 shots from the bow - that is ALL BASED ON WEAPONS STATS.
I found from level to level, in the beta that changing equipment did make a huge difference in ability during combat. I found it exactly the opposite from what you describe - why is that? You say I don't think this is the case, in this game, well you are wrong, sorry to say.
You dont give a lot of specifics. Was it PvP or PvE where you saw the 'ease' were you fighting on level people if it was PvP? Were they skilled? Was it one on one or in a group? Many other questions could be asked as well.
Anecdotal stuff is meaningless witout some background info.
Its like every other PvP game out there every side or class thinks every other class is OP and theirs is gimped. It has always been that way. So anecdotal evidence is jaded at best.
In 'fair' fights skill wins out in this game. But due to mechanics and crazy CC that is hard to find. But with a decent build and skills CC can be overcome but not enough in most cases. its better than it was but not great yet.
Regardless stats arent nearly as important as you claim they are at least not against another person. But yes obviously if someone has twice the stats of someone else theyre going to win that is just common sense but the only way that will happen is if one guy is decked out in very good gear and the other person is in crafting gear or complete garbage gear. Which if theyre actually trying to PvP wont be the case.
These arguments have gone on far to long and will always go on because the point is NO VIDEO GAME should have a damn SHOP in it. You guys need to get off your computer for a minute and really think about this.
Your playing a GAME and it has a SHOP (SSSHHHOOOOPPPP) in it. This was unheard of and wouldn't fly back in the day and all of you who support these games are the ones who keep promoting it.
If the company doesn't have enough money to make a game without charging people for stupid shit they shouldn't be making a game in the first place. If they don't have enough subs to pay there employees or keep the games going then they need to shut them down instead of trying to keep them hanging on by a limb to milk people for every last drop before they shut it down anyways.
(Swg) (Vanguard) (Coh) (Free Realms) Get my point? These arguments are stupid and so are the people defending the "cash shop" bullshit and dont give me a bunch of lame ass reasons like well they have to make money somehow" Yea we all heard it before! Pay a sub play the game or don't play the game. Done Deal. Easy Fix.
Im sure 80% of people who play these f2p games go out and buy $60.00 games every month for their consoles and shit.
Pay your .50 a day or STFU and quit trying to make the ones who pay monthy support your habits.
Originally posted by Siug If this is not p2w then what is really? And, fanbois, donõt even start with "every company wants to make money" because I've seen several cash shops over the years and AA cash shop is pure game breaking at least for me.
Pretty obvious you haven't played ....see no reason why you would even waste your time posting on this topic
Originally posted by Siug If this is not p2w then what is really? And, fanbois, donõt even start with "every company wants to make money" because I've seen several cash shops over the years and AA cash shop is pure game breaking at least for me.
So with the exception of LP pots which are being reviewed and will likely be fixed by making the 12 hour cooldown account wide.....tell us what else in the cash shop is pure game breaking?
These arguments have gone on far to long and will always go on because the point is NO VIDEO GAME should have a damn SHOP in it. You guys need to get off your computer for a minute and really think about this.
Your playing a GAME and it has a SHOP (SSSHHHOOOOPPPP) in it. This was unheard of and wouldn't fly back in the day and all of you who support these games are the ones who keep promoting it.
If the company doesn't have enough money to make a game without charging people for stupid shit they shouldn't be making a game in the first place. If they don't have enough subs to pay there employees or keep the games going then they need to shut them down instead of trying to keep them hanging on by a limb to milk people for every last drop before they shut it down anyways.
(Swg) (Vanguard) (Coh) (Free Realms) Get my point? These arguments are stupid and so are the people defending the "cash shop" bullshit and dont give me a bunch of lame ass reasons like well they have to make money somehow" Yea we all heard it before! Pay a sub play the game or don't play the game. Done Deal. Easy Fix.
Im sure 80% of people who play these f2p games go out and buy $60.00 games every month for their consoles and shit.
Pay your .50 a day or STFU and quit trying to make the ones who pay monthy support your habits.
Bad logic is bad. If NO game were allowed to have a cash shop then there wouldnt be a single one that would survive. Not even WoW because they dont have enough subs in NA and Europe to support hat game. Their 'cash shop' is the Asians and their miniscule hourly sub transactions and private servers.
But thats not the bad logic part the bad logic part is there are about a thousand MMOs out there that all stay in business and apparently make enough money to stay open. They all have some sort of cash shop and many are even outright pay to win. So regardless of what a lot of people think and say these games are open because they offer those options.
Now I am not saying that is good or bad just pointing it out. But it would probably be better if more games actually failed and had to close up because then it would make the developers who are looking for the next cash grab to take pause and maybe make a game that MMO purists think is 'worth' playing and paying for.
In the end MMOs are dead. People can argue that all they want. But the market is over saturated the players are burnt out and cynical and the developers release games that are half made and dont offer any long lasting playabilty (mostly by design). People want new and fast and furious not may 'modern' gamers stick with a game more than a few months no matter how good it is. Even WoW, the end all be all. The fraction of players who see everything in that game wouldnt fill a school bus. Yet when you ask people why they left their obvious answers are obvious. But if you ask them how much of the game they have seen and then ask them specific areas I suspect most would be less than 65% and many would be less than 50%.
So it isnt the MMOs at all its the people playing them and their revisionist ideas of what they have and havent done or seen and what a 'good' MMO should have or not have.
Originally posted by Siug If this is not p2w then what is really? And, fanbois, donõt even start with "every company wants to make money" because I've seen several cash shops over the years and AA cash shop is pure game breaking at least for me.
So with the exception of LP pots which are being reviewed and will likely be fixed by making the 12 hour cooldown account wide.....tell us what else in the cash shop is pure game breaking?
If you craft a house and want to sell it, you have to buy building certificates from the CS so you can sell it. There are tax certificates that you can also buy, so you don't have to pay taxes on your house/farm. Tonics for reducing infamy and crime points - almost like a get out of jail tonic. Those are just some.
Originally posted by Giffen It does look like anyone using real money will have significant advantages to playing the game over a true free to play user.
It also looks like anyone with lots and lots and lots of free time will have a significant advantage to playing the game over someone with a job, wife, family etc.
What shall we do limit everyone to only logging in for 2 hours a day so the game is not P(lay)2W as well?
In these types of sandbox, crafting driven games not everyone is equal and never will be....and there is nothing wrong with that.
All that needs to happen to make all of these P2W whines disappear is making LP pots share an account wide cool down. Thats it imo...
Comments
After all the hype i was checking for ArcheAge every once in a while, but this sounds like this game is quite a failure lol.
The guy who kicks your arse and takes your packs is the winner.
who then loses it to the next guy who kicks his arse and so on and so on.....
Lots of big winners in videogames.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
It takes 3 days before your character is deleted, did you know that ?
Ok now you do.
Could have a 2nd account and use the labor points on that one toward your goals on the first one, 6 characters on that account with 6 LP potions, and then make a 3rd account, with 6 characters per account, and 6 LP potions...
There is no limiter.
read my above post and realize that the game encourages people to spend as much money as they like to get whatever they want in the game.
It encourages people to do so by design.
It's not about paying in, it's about being encouraged to KEEP paying in, like gambling.
Lol, using the "modern definition" of P2W, all MMO's are actually P2W, it's only the degree that varies !
The player with 2 accounts has a huge advantage over those with only 1 account. He has twice as much storage space as the player with 1 account. He also has a buff-bot alt that he can login simultaneously with his main. He can even multibox, etc.
If the Labour pots are removed from the Cash Shop, will everyone be happy ? Because I can guarantee there will be many, many players who will multiple Patron accounts. Some have even already admitted to buying more than one Archeum Founders Pack !
the problem is the system of passively gaining labour points.
Should be gained by going out and doing things only.
So all Pay to play games are pay to win then I guess by some peoples definitions here.
You dont WIN anything. The only thing that is even controversial is the labor points potion. Which is only for people too lazy or dumb to figure out it isnt needed. It MIGHT be convenient very early on when youre building a house or farming raw mats like stone, iron, and trees to build a medium or larger house. But all that really does is give you a boost over someone who ismt spending in getting it done faster. There isnt any real advantage to owning a prime piece of land other than convenience or maybe selling it later on for gold. Which is going to be worthless (gold).
Until they start selling PvP armor or boosts or upgrades that you cant get in the game then it isnt even remotely pay to win.
This game COULD have been released as a sub game and many many people would have subbed. But they aredoing what every other game should be doing in this day and age, calling it free to play and then selling shit in the store.
If ESO had gone this route it wouldnt have been a complete failure.
In the end more people will play AA than ESO simply because its free to play (at least until ESO goes free to play itself). AA wont get the box price money but they have made quite a bit on the 150 founders packs. Plus they will have the usual band of people who run through an MMO and spend a few hundred or a couple thousand bucks buying up cash shop crap. Free to play and a cash shop works if it didnt half the games clinging to life with little to no populations would have folded up instead of releasing updates and expansions.
People can rag on it all the want but AA is a decent game. Not perfect because it has an Asian mentality but it is as good as any other game out there right now. if it had more indepth stuff to do at max level other than farmville or PvP it would be much better. But it has a niche and it will continue to have a niche if they can incorporate some varied content it will get even more people to stick around awhile.
I can think of one modern game that is NOT P2W and that is GW2. The reason being is that at Max level, with most of the armor being equal in PvP, any player can beat any other player based on skill not equipment. That is not true with most games and AA is no exception. ArcheAge is all about equipment. The best armor and weapons are crafted. Crafting means you will need lots of LP. LP means sub, Founders pack AND buying potions from the CS. That IS P2W big time!!!
Cash Shops are getting old and the few smart ones already figured out that they cost more than just subbing. We are just waiting for the rest of the idiots to figure it out so we can be done with them. Let the ridiculous fad die already people.
The stats gained on upgrading gear is very minimal so it isnt anything like you claim it to be. Stats do not improve you that much for such a minimal gain. I think each gear upgrade is 3 or 4 points per stat and only on whatever stat they have. So 'intro' gear (green) will have stats like 30, 25,20 the Orange variety (3 upgrades better) of that same item will have 44,37,29. I am pretty sure it is a 15% increase per regrade. But at such minimal numbers raw difference isnt extreme.
Thats the problem with min maxer mentality they just look at the end numbers and not the difference in numbers from level to level.
IMO the differential isnt nearly enough to overcome the skill this game requires in combat. Meaning someone with a few points less in stats (or a lot of points less) in stats isnt going to be beaten by an inferior player with better gear. I dont even think the gear safety net other games have is even a factor in AA. In many games more stats and better gear makes up for alot of mistakes, in this game I dont think that is the case.
So any game that has a sub and/or a founders pack/collectors edition is P2W now?
There may be a question mark over LP pots currently (which are under review and will LIKELY be tweaked before release, making them 12 hour cool down per account rather than per character for example) which will solve the LP problem.
But you are saying the game is also P2W because it has a sub and a collectors edition? Seriously?
If a subscriber has a cash shop available on top of the sub that sells advantages then it is a horrible business model for the customer.
You dont need a wall of text to see that labor points are more useful for crafting and as someone outlined earlier crafting is a RNG with you going to be making a lot of equipment to get a better tier, to be a "better" player. More like P2BE-MILKED
There is no skill involved with combat in AA. It is very simple. Plant and spam skills. I found it boring and not very exciting. If it was more about dodging and moving during combat, that is skill, this is just your basic WoW mentality type of combat mechanism - there is no skill involved at all. I changed my bow, for example, and went from having to use melee skills at the end to just killing with 4 shots from the bow - that is ALL BASED ON WEAPONS STATS.
I found from level to level, in the beta that changing equipment did make a huge difference in ability during combat. I found it exactly the opposite from what you describe - why is that? You say I don't think this is the case, in this game, well you are wrong, sorry to say.
You dont give a lot of specifics. Was it PvP or PvE where you saw the 'ease' were you fighting on level people if it was PvP? Were they skilled? Was it one on one or in a group? Many other questions could be asked as well.
Anecdotal stuff is meaningless witout some background info.
Its like every other PvP game out there every side or class thinks every other class is OP and theirs is gimped. It has always been that way. So anecdotal evidence is jaded at best.
In 'fair' fights skill wins out in this game. But due to mechanics and crazy CC that is hard to find. But with a decent build and skills CC can be overcome but not enough in most cases. its better than it was but not great yet.
Regardless stats arent nearly as important as you claim they are at least not against another person. But yes obviously if someone has twice the stats of someone else theyre going to win that is just common sense but the only way that will happen is if one guy is decked out in very good gear and the other person is in crafting gear or complete garbage gear. Which if theyre actually trying to PvP wont be the case.
These arguments have gone on far to long and will always go on because the point is NO VIDEO GAME should have a damn SHOP in it. You guys need to get off your computer for a minute and really think about this.
Your playing a GAME and it has a SHOP (SSSHHHOOOOPPPP) in it. This was unheard of and wouldn't fly back in the day and all of you who support these games are the ones who keep promoting it.
If the company doesn't have enough money to make a game without charging people for stupid shit they shouldn't be making a game in the first place. If they don't have enough subs to pay there employees or keep the games going then they need to shut them down instead of trying to keep them hanging on by a limb to milk people for every last drop before they shut it down anyways.
(Swg) (Vanguard) (Coh) (Free Realms) Get my point? These arguments are stupid and so are the people defending the "cash shop" bullshit and dont give me a bunch of lame ass reasons like well they have to make money somehow" Yea we all heard it before! Pay a sub play the game or don't play the game. Done Deal. Easy Fix.
Im sure 80% of people who play these f2p games go out and buy $60.00 games every month for their consoles and shit.
Pay your .50 a day or STFU and quit trying to make the ones who pay monthy support your habits.
Pretty obvious you haven't played ....see no reason why you would even waste your time posting on this topic
So with the exception of LP pots which are being reviewed and will likely be fixed by making the 12 hour cooldown account wide.....tell us what else in the cash shop is pure game breaking?
Bad logic is bad. If NO game were allowed to have a cash shop then there wouldnt be a single one that would survive. Not even WoW because they dont have enough subs in NA and Europe to support hat game. Their 'cash shop' is the Asians and their miniscule hourly sub transactions and private servers.
But thats not the bad logic part the bad logic part is there are about a thousand MMOs out there that all stay in business and apparently make enough money to stay open. They all have some sort of cash shop and many are even outright pay to win. So regardless of what a lot of people think and say these games are open because they offer those options.
Now I am not saying that is good or bad just pointing it out. But it would probably be better if more games actually failed and had to close up because then it would make the developers who are looking for the next cash grab to take pause and maybe make a game that MMO purists think is 'worth' playing and paying for.
In the end MMOs are dead. People can argue that all they want. But the market is over saturated the players are burnt out and cynical and the developers release games that are half made and dont offer any long lasting playabilty (mostly by design). People want new and fast and furious not may 'modern' gamers stick with a game more than a few months no matter how good it is. Even WoW, the end all be all. The fraction of players who see everything in that game wouldnt fill a school bus. Yet when you ask people why they left their obvious answers are obvious. But if you ask them how much of the game they have seen and then ask them specific areas I suspect most would be less than 65% and many would be less than 50%.
So it isnt the MMOs at all its the people playing them and their revisionist ideas of what they have and havent done or seen and what a 'good' MMO should have or not have.
If you craft a house and want to sell it, you have to buy building certificates from the CS so you can sell it. There are tax certificates that you can also buy, so you don't have to pay taxes on your house/farm. Tonics for reducing infamy and crime points - almost like a get out of jail tonic. Those are just some.
It also looks like anyone with lots and lots and lots of free time will have a significant advantage to playing the game over someone with a job, wife, family etc.
What shall we do limit everyone to only logging in for 2 hours a day so the game is not P(lay)2W as well?
In these types of sandbox, crafting driven games not everyone is equal and never will be....and there is nothing wrong with that.
All that needs to happen to make all of these P2W whines disappear is making LP pots share an account wide cool down. Thats it imo...