I've never seen a game that you can sub for that penalizes you for almost every action you make only to sell relief from this in their cash shop.
That's P2W...there is no mystery here...name another sub game that does that?
World of Warcraft, Wildstar, etc,etc,etc. What because people do not see the inherent timesinks (unless you claim dungeons/raids always drop every item in their loot tables every time) it does not mean I do not.
LOL...Im talking about LP. I never had to sit around and wait to do something in game because of a lack of an arbitrary stat.
It takes LP to use the bathroom in AA...the only thing you can do without LP is ride your mount and kill the very mindless mobs running around....other than that, you are screwed.
WoW does not have such system, neither does Wildstar or any other game.
LOL, no you just had to gather 20-40 people of which at least 15 (respectively 25) had to know which end of their arse to point at the boss. A timesink is a timesink, you can continually say that LP is different but in the end it is a timesink, you just like other types not the kind you can actually plan around.
Please explain how LP makes AA a "beacon of shining excellence in the MMO arena"? Do I need to get you back on track about the real argument at hand?
Alright. Is AA P2W? How are you defining winning? By having a bigger bank balance due to being able to plant and harvest faster? Maybe, or you could be a pirate, robbing subbed fools on the open sea. The neat thing about this game is that there are multiple paths open to advancement and profit, and not all are limited to LP.
But if there were no system like LP in place I would bet the game would be a loss for everyone, whether or not they paid. By all accounts, people are able to carry on LP activities for hours at a time before running out... I think that somewhere on these forums someone did a breakdown.
If LP was 1 of many ways to skin a cat, it would most certainly be the worst way....
I've never seen a game that you can sub for that penalizes you for almost every action you make only to sell relief from this in their cash shop.
That's P2W...there is no mystery here...name another sub game that does that?
World of Warcraft, Wildstar, etc,etc,etc. What because people do not see the inherent timesinks (unless you claim dungeons/raids always drop every item in their loot tables every time) it does not mean I do not.
LOL...Im talking about LP. I never had to sit around and wait to do something in game because of a lack of an arbitrary stat.
It takes LP to use the bathroom in AA...the only thing you can do without LP is ride your mount and kill the very mindless mobs running around....other than that, you are screwed.
WoW does not have such system, neither does Wildstar or any other game.
LOL, no you just had to gather 20-40 people of which at least 15 (respectively 25) had to know which end of their arse to point at the boss. A timesink is a timesink, you can continually say that LP is different but in the end it is a timesink, you just like other types not the kind you can actually plan around.
While I was waiting to raid in those games I was able to craft, gather, do dailies, do smaller dungeons and anything else not pertaining to the raid without penalty. Waiting for enough people to join a raid is not a penalty...LP is a penalty
So what you are saying is that the developers were either lazy, not creative enough or (my guess) wanted to capitalize by not making a system to handle this that would also not effect subscribers?
I'm thinking that the labor system has several other goals than just being the equivalence to "energy" in the promise-land called mobile/social games. Without much thought I'm guessing this is used to limit botting, or at least in some way, shape or form hamper botting.
However, studios and companies, at the end of the day, are mainly concerned with their bottom-line. It's not likely we're going to find a philanthropic studio willing to give us a game solely for free when they have to also spend money to keep everything alive. The bitter-sweet is finding the right balance of giving and taking, and I believe that this LP system isn't the worst idea for a F2P play style. However, debating what's fair and not in a F2P will always vary.
I've never seen a game that you can sub for that penalizes you for almost every action you make only to sell relief from this in their cash shop.
That's P2W...there is no mystery here...name another sub game that does that?
If the LP system did not exist in AA do you know how many exploits could be created in this game.
So what you are saying is that the developers were either lazy, not creative enough or (my guess) wanted to capitalize by not making a system to handle this that would also not effect subscribers?
I'm not here to change your mind, cause you seem very stubborn. I'm just saying that AA is a game that needs the LP system. Without it someone could build/craft everything in the game in a day. (which is a problem)
So what you are saying is that the developers were either lazy, not creative enough or (my guess) wanted to capitalize by not making a system to handle this that would also not effect subscribers?
I'm thinking that the labor system has several other goals than just being the equivalence to "energy" in the promise-land called mobile/social games. Without much thought I'm guessing this is used to limit botting, or at least in some way, shape or form hamper botting.
However, studios and companies, at the end of the day, are mainly concerned with their bottom-line. It's not likely we're going to find a philanthropic studio willing to give us a game solely for free when they have to also spend money to keep everything alive. The bitter-sweet is finding the right balance of giving and taking, and I believe that this LP system isn't the worst idea for a F2P play style. However, debating what's fair and not in a F2P will always vary.
Im talking for subs...FTP players get what they asked for...."Free"
I've never seen a game that you can sub for that penalizes you for almost every action you make only to sell relief from this in their cash shop.
That's P2W...there is no mystery here...name another sub game that does that?
World of Warcraft, Wildstar, etc,etc,etc. What because people do not see the inherent timesinks (unless you claim dungeons/raids always drop every item in their loot tables every time) it does not mean I do not.
LOL...Im talking about LP. I never had to sit around and wait to do something in game because of a lack of an arbitrary stat.
It takes LP to use the bathroom in AA...the only thing you can do without LP is ride your mount and kill the very mindless mobs running around....other than that, you are screwed.
WoW does not have such system, neither does Wildstar or any other game.
LOL, no you just had to gather 20-40 people of which at least 15 (respectively 25) had to know which end of their arse to point at the boss. A timesink is a timesink, you can continually say that LP is different but in the end it is a timesink, you just like other types not the kind you can actually plan around.
While I was waiting to raid in those games I was able to craft, gather, do dailies, do smaller dungeons and anything else not pertaining to the raid without penalty. Waiting for enough people to join a raid is not a penalty...LP is a penalty
Nope, because you aren't forced to use LP except in crafting or gathering, you can adventure while you build up LPs, explore, etc, hell even just talk to people. You keep trying to make it sound like a negative system but maybe you should actually try a system where all actions cost energy (spiral knights had this system, going into a combat instance cost energy, energy regened slowly, is AA like this? no but you want it to sound the same but it isn't).
I've never seen a game that you can sub for that penalizes you for almost every action you make only to sell relief from this in their cash shop.
That's P2W...there is no mystery here...name another sub game that does that?
World of Warcraft, Wildstar, etc,etc,etc. What because people do not see the inherent timesinks (unless you claim dungeons/raids always drop every item in their loot tables every time) it does not mean I do not.
LOL...Im talking about LP. I never had to sit around and wait to do something in game because of a lack of an arbitrary stat.
It takes LP to use the bathroom in AA...the only thing you can do without LP is ride your mount and kill the very mindless mobs running around....other than that, you are screwed.
WoW does not have such system, neither does Wildstar or any other game.
LOL, no you just had to gather 20-40 people of which at least 15 (respectively 25) had to know which end of their arse to point at the boss. A timesink is a timesink, you can continually say that LP is different but in the end it is a timesink, you just like other types not the kind you can actually plan around.
While I was waiting to raid in those games I was able to craft, gather, do dailies, do smaller dungeons and anything else not pertaining to the raid without penalty. Waiting for enough people to join a raid is not a penalty...LP is a penalty
Nope, because you aren't forced to use LP except in crafting or gathering, you can adventure while you build up LPs, explore, etc, hell even just talk to people. You keep trying to make it sound like a negative system but maybe you should actually try a system where all actions cost energy (spiral knights had this system, going into a combat instance cost energy, energy regened slowly, is AA like this? no but you want it to sound the same but it isn't).
Definitely agree with this, Spiral knights is a good example on how to ruin this system. I couldn't even play the game without either, waiting, or paying the company. You can still do a lot without LP.
I've never seen a game that you can sub for that penalizes you for almost every action you make only to sell relief from this in their cash shop.
That's P2W...there is no mystery here...name another sub game that does that?
World of Warcraft, Wildstar, etc,etc,etc. What because people do not see the inherent timesinks (unless you claim dungeons/raids always drop every item in their loot tables every time) it does not mean I do not.
LOL...Im talking about LP. I never had to sit around and wait to do something in game because of a lack of an arbitrary stat.
It takes LP to use the bathroom in AA...the only thing you can do without LP is ride your mount and kill the very mindless mobs running around....other than that, you are screwed.
WoW does not have such system, neither does Wildstar or any other game.
LOL, no you just had to gather 20-40 people of which at least 15 (respectively 25) had to know which end of their arse to point at the boss. A timesink is a timesink, you can continually say that LP is different but in the end it is a timesink, you just like other types not the kind you can actually plan around.
While I was waiting to raid in those games I was able to craft, gather, do dailies, do smaller dungeons and anything else not pertaining to the raid without penalty. Waiting for enough people to join a raid is not a penalty...LP is a penalty
Nope, because you aren't forced to use LP except in crafting or gathering, you can adventure while you build up LPs, explore, etc, hell even just talk to people. You keep trying to make it sound like a negative system but maybe you should actually try a system where all actions cost energy (spiral knights had this system, going into a combat instance cost energy, energy regened slowly, is AA like this? no but you want it to sound the same but it isn't).
You want to ID something, like armor that was dropped well there goes those LP points. Need to use them. That is the point of this game, isn't it. It is LP that makes the game go around. People wanted a sandbox style game to build things in and play around in. They did get it with a huge noose around the neck - the LP system.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If you call Archeage pay to win then Eve Online is also pay to win and every themepark or mmo that has raiding or crafting.
There is always going to be some dude or some guild or some alliance that is on the top of the food chain by playing faster and better.
Al these topics about pay to win are just realy realy sad as in the end it doesnt mean jack shit if you have a sub + pop pots every 12 hours on 200 accounts.
The core of the game is running tradepacks / sieges castles / playing the market / stealing / mass pvp / making your mark in this open world pvp game.
What advantage does it give a wallet warrior with 2000 labor pots and a sub when he is just going to get his ass kicked ?
Archeage like Eve is a dog eat dog world, if you play this mmo solo you already lost.
If you think sub + labor pots = win then ouch.........wait till you meet us.....
There are going to be much tears and much epic battles, if you cannot fight or hire protection against us then hmmmm your not gonne make it across the ocean against our army of gallions and bloodthirsty pvp hungry fighters.
We have one goal in Archeage and that is destruction, small scale / big scale / griefing / humiliation /
We want total domination and when you see our logo you are going to shit your pants and poop yourself all under.
No amount of labor is going to safe your ass.
Where is this pay to win element again ?
We have freeloaders and patrons in our corperation all ready to work for a common goal...domination
We plant hundreds of trees in the world and gaurd them 24/7
We grow massive amounts of crops in the world and gaurd them
We herde massive amounts of livestock in the world and gaurd them
Where is the pay to win element again ?
Oh that guy that pops a potion every 12 hour ? what he gonne do ? throw chickens ?
I dont see it but it must be me i gues ?
People shall see that after 2 or 4 weeks their server is filled with big guilds that are out for one thing.......destruction and pvp.
No place is safe
So why should i care about a few wallet warriors again ?
Does Archeage sell some type of weapons of mass destruction i missed ?
Orbital Nukes in the cash shop ? no ? damn.........
I doubled checked but no weapons or anything -_-
I woulnt worry that much abotu labor pots, there is going to be much bigger things to worry about once this mmo goes live.
Much can be seen from Eve Online what happens when you open the box and give players the tools to dominate.
I've never seen a game that you can sub for that penalizes you for almost every action you make only to sell relief from this in their cash shop.
That's P2W...there is no mystery here...name another sub game that does that?
World of Warcraft, Wildstar, etc,etc,etc. What because people do not see the inherent timesinks (unless you claim dungeons/raids always drop every item in their loot tables every time) it does not mean I do not.
LOL...Im talking about LP. I never had to sit around and wait to do something in game because of a lack of an arbitrary stat.
It takes LP to use the bathroom in AA...the only thing you can do without LP is ride your mount and kill the very mindless mobs running around....other than that, you are screwed.
WoW does not have such system, neither does Wildstar or any other game.
LOL, no you just had to gather 20-40 people of which at least 15 (respectively 25) had to know which end of their arse to point at the boss. A timesink is a timesink, you can continually say that LP is different but in the end it is a timesink, you just like other types not the kind you can actually plan around.
While I was waiting to raid in those games I was able to craft, gather, do dailies, do smaller dungeons and anything else not pertaining to the raid without penalty. Waiting for enough people to join a raid is not a penalty...LP is a penalty
Nope, because you aren't forced to use LP except in crafting or gathering
So the crafting/gathering aspect of the game is basically farmville. Plant/mine/fish/harvest/raise animals/etc. until your run out of energy. And since stuff takes hours (like 4 hours for Grapevines) to be ready to harvest/whatever, you log out, replenish your energy, and can come back hours later. Just like FarmvIlle.
I personally think that is a dull system, not because of the time it takes for stuff to grow, but because once you're out of LP, that's that. You HAVE to wait, even if you're a patron user, you'll run out, especially if that's what brings you to the game (the crafting and gathering aspects).
The only way the LP system won't affect you is if you're into doing a little bit of everything. Personally, I have no interest in quests or PvP.
If you call Archeage pay to win then Eve Online is also pay to win and every themepark or mmo that has raiding or crafting.
There is always going to be some dude or some guild or some alliance that is on the top of the food chain by playing faster and better.
Al these topics about pay to win are just realy realy sad as in the end it doesnt mean jack shit if you have a sub + pop pots every 12 hours on 200 accounts.
The core of the game is running tradepacks / sieges castles / playing the market / stealing / mass pvp / making your mark in this open world pvp game.
What advantage does it give a wallet warrior with 2000 labor pots and a sub when he is just going to get his ass kicked ?
Archeage like Eve is a dog eat dog world, if you play this mmo solo you already lost.
If you think sub + labor pots = win then ouch.........wait till you meet us.....
There are going to be much tears and much epic battles, if you cannot fight or hire protection against us then hmmmm your not gonne make it across the ocean against our army of gallions and bloodthirsty pvp hungry fighters.
We have one goal in Archeage and that is destruction, small scale / big scale / griefing / humiliation /
We want total domination and when you see our logo you are going to shit your pants and poop yourself all under.
No amount of labor is going to safe your ass.
Where is this pay to win element again ?
We have freeloaders and patrons in our corperation all ready to work for a common goal...domination
We plant hundreds of trees in the world and gaurd them 24/7
We grow massive amounts of crops in the world and gaurd them
We herde massive amounts of livestock in the world and gaurd them
Where is the pay to win element again ?
Oh that guy that pops a potion every 12 hour ? what he gonne do ? throw chickens ?
I dont see it but it must be me i gues ?
People shall see that after 2 or 4 weeks their server is filled with big guilds that are out for one thing.......destruction and pvp.
No place is safe
So why should i care about a few wallet warriors again ?
Does Archeage sell some type of weapons of mass destruction i missed ?
Orbital Nukes in the cash shop ? no ? damn.........
I doubled checked but no weapons or anything -_-
I woulnt worry that much abotu labor pots, there is going to be much bigger things to worry about once this mmo goes live.
Much can be seen from Eve Online what happens when you open the box and give players the tools to dominate.
o/
And of course the ganking/griefer types will find this game a wet dream.
I've never seen a game that you can sub for that penalizes you for almost every action you make only to sell relief from this in their cash shop.
That's P2W...there is no mystery here...name another sub game that does that?
World of Warcraft, Wildstar, etc,etc,etc. What because people do not see the inherent timesinks (unless you claim dungeons/raids always drop every item in their loot tables every time) it does not mean I do not.
LOL...Im talking about LP. I never had to sit around and wait to do something in game because of a lack of an arbitrary stat.
It takes LP to use the bathroom in AA...the only thing you can do without LP is ride your mount and kill the very mindless mobs running around....other than that, you are screwed.
WoW does not have such system, neither does Wildstar or any other game.
LOL, no you just had to gather 20-40 people of which at least 15 (respectively 25) had to know which end of their arse to point at the boss. A timesink is a timesink, you can continually say that LP is different but in the end it is a timesink, you just like other types not the kind you can actually plan around.
While I was waiting to raid in those games I was able to craft, gather, do dailies, do smaller dungeons and anything else not pertaining to the raid without penalty. Waiting for enough people to join a raid is not a penalty...LP is a penalty
Nope, because you aren't forced to use LP except in crafting or gathering, you can adventure while you build up LPs, explore, etc, hell even just talk to people. You keep trying to make it sound like a negative system but maybe you should actually try a system where all actions cost energy (spiral knights had this system, going into a combat instance cost energy, energy regened slowly, is AA like this? no but you want it to sound the same but it isn't).
You want to ID something, like armor that was dropped well there goes those LP points. Need to use them. That is the point of this game, isn't it. It is LP that makes the game go around. People wanted a sandbox style game to build things in and play around in. They did get it with a huge noose around the neck - the LP system.
Just imagine AA without the LP system, wouldn't that be a mess. Being able to build/craft anything without any kind of restriction. I don't know about you, but that seems like a hot mess. One player could own all the land, the economy of the game would be all over the place, people would be able to do trade packs 24/7. That's not what AA was intended for.
I've never seen a game that you can sub for that penalizes you for almost every action you make only to sell relief from this in their cash shop.
That's P2W...there is no mystery here...name another sub game that does that?
World of Warcraft, Wildstar, etc,etc,etc. What because people do not see the inherent timesinks (unless you claim dungeons/raids always drop every item in their loot tables every time) it does not mean I do not.
LOL...Im talking about LP. I never had to sit around and wait to do something in game because of a lack of an arbitrary stat.
It takes LP to use the bathroom in AA...the only thing you can do without LP is ride your mount and kill the very mindless mobs running around....other than that, you are screwed.
WoW does not have such system, neither does Wildstar or any other game.
LOL, no you just had to gather 20-40 people of which at least 15 (respectively 25) had to know which end of their arse to point at the boss. A timesink is a timesink, you can continually say that LP is different but in the end it is a timesink, you just like other types not the kind you can actually plan around.
While I was waiting to raid in those games I was able to craft, gather, do dailies, do smaller dungeons and anything else not pertaining to the raid without penalty. Waiting for enough people to join a raid is not a penalty...LP is a penalty
Nope, because you aren't forced to use LP except in crafting or gathering, you can adventure while you build up LPs, explore, etc, hell even just talk to people. You keep trying to make it sound like a negative system but maybe you should actually try a system where all actions cost energy (spiral knights had this system, going into a combat instance cost energy, energy regened slowly, is AA like this? no but you want it to sound the same but it isn't).
Spiral Knights is FTP...LP is a penalty no matter how you spin it...you lose the ability to do things (you already paid to be able to do by purchasing the sub) by spending points. That's a penalty...call it an overuse penalty...however the devs consider what is overuse or not....
I've never seen a game that you can sub for that penalizes you for almost every action you make only to sell relief from this in their cash shop.
That's P2W...there is no mystery here...name another sub game that does that?
World of Warcraft, Wildstar, etc,etc,etc. What because people do not see the inherent timesinks (unless you claim dungeons/raids always drop every item in their loot tables every time) it does not mean I do not.
LOL...Im talking about LP. I never had to sit around and wait to do something in game because of a lack of an arbitrary stat.
It takes LP to use the bathroom in AA...the only thing you can do without LP is ride your mount and kill the very mindless mobs running around....other than that, you are screwed.
WoW does not have such system, neither does Wildstar or any other game.
LOL, no you just had to gather 20-40 people of which at least 15 (respectively 25) had to know which end of their arse to point at the boss. A timesink is a timesink, you can continually say that LP is different but in the end it is a timesink, you just like other types not the kind you can actually plan around.
While I was waiting to raid in those games I was able to craft, gather, do dailies, do smaller dungeons and anything else not pertaining to the raid without penalty. Waiting for enough people to join a raid is not a penalty...LP is a penalty
Nope, because you aren't forced to use LP except in crafting or gathering, you can adventure while you build up LPs, explore, etc, hell even just talk to people. You keep trying to make it sound like a negative system but maybe you should actually try a system where all actions cost energy (spiral knights had this system, going into a combat instance cost energy, energy regened slowly, is AA like this? no but you want it to sound the same but it isn't).
You want to ID something, like armor that was dropped well there goes those LP points. Need to use them. That is the point of this game, isn't it. It is LP that makes the game go around. People wanted a sandbox style game to build things in and play around in. They did get it with a huge noose around the neck - the LP system.
Just imagine AA without the LP system, wouldn't that be a mess. Being able to build/craft anything without any kind of restriction. I don't know about you, but that seems like a hot mess. One player could own all the land, the economy of the game would be all over the place, people would be able to do trade packs 24/7. That's not what AA was intended for.
Well F2P players can't own land, so that'll save room. They could place limits on how much land you could own (numbers of farms, houses, their sizes, etc.). I don't think LP is the only way to limit this system.
You want to ID something, like armor that was dropped well there goes those LP points. Need to use them. That is the point of this game, isn't it. It is LP that makes the game go around. People wanted a sandbox style game to build things in and play around in. They did get it with a huge noose around the neck - the LP system.
And while you are acquiring them items does the LP not regen? I mean maybe for a F2P player it would be a bit more dicey but for a patron ? Could you ever get enough loot from a non-intensive play routine (IE: 4-6 hours a day) not to be able to ID it all as a patron? People keep saying it is wrong but I have to ask: Are consequences to your choices now negatives? The game is by no means restrictive and it even allows F2P players to transition to patrons without actually investing their own money into it, is this wrong? No, people would buy gold in the game regardless, better to make it harder for gold sellers to get in on the action.
Originally posted by ThumbtackJ
Well F2P players can't own land, so that'll save room. They could place limits on how much land you could own (numbers of farms, houses, their sizes, etc.). I don't think LP is the only way to limit this system.
Would still tank the economy utterly and have to cut out the legal RMT/patron "plexes" in-game.
Originally posted by Randayn
Spiral Knights is FTP...LP is a penalty no matter how you spin it...you lose the ability to do things (you already paid to be able to do by purchasing the sub) by spending points. That's a penalty...call it an overuse penalty...however the devs consider what is overuse or not....
Spiral Knights is the closest you are going to get from a full fledged MMORPG with an energy system to P2W and it still isn't even with the massively annoying wait times you can still player perfectly free just like in AA. Also you do not lose the ability to do anything, F2P players have things disabled but can still, eventually, gain access to patron status freely, stop trying to pass off having to think as losing the ability because by that logic what use are laws? (they inhibit your right to freely exercise your desires in real life like you claim LP is doing in AA).
What MMO has not been a "cash grab" since the beginning of MMOs? They've all required time sinks that serve no purpose other than to get you to play the game even more. That's not "Pay to Win" that's called business. There's a big difference between a product asking you to pay for it as a regular purchase and another that sounds like the cheap-o local factory outlet commercial "Buy now! Only $2.99 down. That's right, for just the low payment of $2.99 this could be yours!"
I feel sorry for people who think a game that wants a sub fee is "pay to win". It must be painful everytime a company releases a game they don't give you full access to for free... Skyrim, Dragon Age and all those other "Pay to Win" games must be really stressful for you guys!
You know that loot you just got from a boss? Yeah you'll have to buy a labor potion from the store to open it or wait for about half an hour to open the loot bag.
That mine node? Yeah labor potion.
Those fishing worms? Yeah buy the patron status so you can farm the worms without your farm being taken for ransom by a troll.
Sell your excess worms on the AH? Patron status.
Not P2W you say? You keep saying that, but you don't seem to understand what that means.
What's really interesting is Defiance patch today, Scapes got his grubby hands on that patch and now just about everything is in the store, anything that was remotely F2P is so outrageously expensive it's stupid. I'm personally watching what happens with Rift 3.0. If Rift 3.0 comes down and suddenly progression is linked to the store bought item, then my fears will have been confirmed.
You know that loot you just got from a boss? Yeah you'll have to buy a labor potion from the store to open it or wait for about half an hour to open the loot bag.
That mine node? Yeah labor potion.
Those fishing worms? Yeah buy the patron status so you can farm the worms without your farm being taken for ransom by a troll.
Sell your excess worms on the AH? Patron status.
Not P2W you say? You keep saying that, but you don't seem to understand what that means.
What's really interesting is Defiance patch today, Scapes got his grubby hands on that patch and now just about everything is in the store, anything that was remotely F2P is so outrageously expensive it's stupid. I'm personally watching what happens with Rift 3.0. If Rift 3.0 comes down and suddenly progression is linked to the store bought item, then my fears will have been confirmed.
No Tricks No Traps indeed. smh
You have to be joking right now....
people are saying P2W because of items being to powerful in the marketplace.
Your saying its SUB to WIN....cmon man that was the dumbest shit Ive ever heard....your so confused its not even funny
You know that loot you just got from a boss? Yeah you'll have to buy a labor potion from the store to open it or wait for about half an hour to open the loot bag.
That mine node? Yeah labor potion.
Those fishing worms? Yeah buy the patron status so you can farm the worms without your farm being taken for ransom by a troll.
Sell your excess worms on the AH? Patron status.
Not P2W you say? You keep saying that, but you don't seem to understand what that means.
What's really interesting is Defiance patch today, Scapes got his grubby hands on that patch and now just about everything is in the store, anything that was remotely F2P is so outrageously expensive it's stupid. I'm personally watching what happens with Rift 3.0. If Rift 3.0 comes down and suddenly progression is linked to the store bought item, then my fears will have been confirmed.
No Tricks No Traps indeed. smh
Lets see where to begin:
You know that labor potion you have to buy? that's 1000 LP and can be bought off the AH (you can buy even as a F2Per) for some gold (expect it in release to be fairly cheap). Now if you are an ADHD riddled teen who has to have everything this minute and cannot fathom doing something else instead of waiting then yes it sucks but then again you know those dungeons take 20-30 minutes minimum, right? Mhm.
That mine lode? Yeah LP, you can do other stuff and let your LPs build up like explore around, then do a bit of mining (better you get in mining less LP it costs, mmmmhm).
You know that exploration you did? revealed spots on the map less traveled, maybe even a remote island no one has settled, worms be farmed.
Selling on AH? Make friends with patron status you can trust or earn enough money to buy with in-game gold patron status (if you think no one's gonna be selling it you are hopelessly optimistic).
P2W you say? Here have a helping of Gunbound, Forsaken World and just for good measure SWtOR.
Comments
LOL, no you just had to gather 20-40 people of which at least 15 (respectively 25) had to know which end of their arse to point at the boss. A timesink is a timesink, you can continually say that LP is different but in the end it is a timesink, you just like other types not the kind you can actually plan around.
If LP was 1 of many ways to skin a cat, it would most certainly be the worst way....
While I was waiting to raid in those games I was able to craft, gather, do dailies, do smaller dungeons and anything else not pertaining to the raid without penalty. Waiting for enough people to join a raid is not a penalty...LP is a penalty
I'm thinking that the labor system has several other goals than just being the equivalence to "energy" in the promise-land called mobile/social games. Without much thought I'm guessing this is used to limit botting, or at least in some way, shape or form hamper botting.
However, studios and companies, at the end of the day, are mainly concerned with their bottom-line. It's not likely we're going to find a philanthropic studio willing to give us a game solely for free when they have to also spend money to keep everything alive. The bitter-sweet is finding the right balance of giving and taking, and I believe that this LP system isn't the worst idea for a F2P play style. However, debating what's fair and not in a F2P will always vary.
Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW.
Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2
I'm not here to change your mind, cause you seem very stubborn. I'm just saying that AA is a game that needs the LP system. Without it someone could build/craft everything in the game in a day. (which is a problem)
Im talking for subs...FTP players get what they asked for...."Free"
Nope, because you aren't forced to use LP except in crafting or gathering, you can adventure while you build up LPs, explore, etc, hell even just talk to people. You keep trying to make it sound like a negative system but maybe you should actually try a system where all actions cost energy (spiral knights had this system, going into a combat instance cost energy, energy regened slowly, is AA like this? no but you want it to sound the same but it isn't).
Definitely agree with this, Spiral knights is a good example on how to ruin this system. I couldn't even play the game without either, waiting, or paying the company. You can still do a lot without LP.
You want to ID something, like armor that was dropped well there goes those LP points. Need to use them. That is the point of this game, isn't it. It is LP that makes the game go around. People wanted a sandbox style game to build things in and play around in. They did get it with a huge noose around the neck - the LP system.
+1, as it should be.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If you call Archeage pay to win then Eve Online is also pay to win and every themepark or mmo that has raiding or crafting.
There is always going to be some dude or some guild or some alliance that is on the top of the food chain by playing faster and better.
Al these topics about pay to win are just realy realy sad as in the end it doesnt mean jack shit if you have a sub + pop pots every 12 hours on 200 accounts.
The core of the game is running tradepacks / sieges castles / playing the market / stealing / mass pvp / making your mark in this open world pvp game.
What advantage does it give a wallet warrior with 2000 labor pots and a sub when he is just going to get his ass kicked ?
Archeage like Eve is a dog eat dog world, if you play this mmo solo you already lost.
If you think sub + labor pots = win then ouch.........wait till you meet us.....
There are going to be much tears and much epic battles, if you cannot fight or hire protection against us then hmmmm your not gonne make it across the ocean against our army of gallions and bloodthirsty pvp hungry fighters.
We have one goal in Archeage and that is destruction, small scale / big scale / griefing / humiliation /
We want total domination and when you see our logo you are going to shit your pants and poop yourself all under.
No amount of labor is going to safe your ass.
Where is this pay to win element again ?
We have freeloaders and patrons in our corperation all ready to work for a common goal...domination
We plant hundreds of trees in the world and gaurd them 24/7
We grow massive amounts of crops in the world and gaurd them
We herde massive amounts of livestock in the world and gaurd them
Where is the pay to win element again ?
Oh that guy that pops a potion every 12 hour ? what he gonne do ? throw chickens ?
I dont see it but it must be me i gues ?
People shall see that after 2 or 4 weeks their server is filled with big guilds that are out for one thing.......destruction and pvp.
No place is safe
So why should i care about a few wallet warriors again ?
Does Archeage sell some type of weapons of mass destruction i missed ?
Orbital Nukes in the cash shop ? no ? damn.........
I doubled checked but no weapons or anything -_-
I woulnt worry that much abotu labor pots, there is going to be much bigger things to worry about once this mmo goes live.
Much can be seen from Eve Online what happens when you open the box and give players the tools to dominate.
o/
So the crafting/gathering aspect of the game is basically farmville. Plant/mine/fish/harvest/raise animals/etc. until your run out of energy. And since stuff takes hours (like 4 hours for Grapevines) to be ready to harvest/whatever, you log out, replenish your energy, and can come back hours later. Just like FarmvIlle.
I personally think that is a dull system, not because of the time it takes for stuff to grow, but because once you're out of LP, that's that. You HAVE to wait, even if you're a patron user, you'll run out, especially if that's what brings you to the game (the crafting and gathering aspects).
The only way the LP system won't affect you is if you're into doing a little bit of everything. Personally, I have no interest in quests or PvP.
And of course the ganking/griefer types will find this game a wet dream.
Just imagine AA without the LP system, wouldn't that be a mess. Being able to build/craft anything without any kind of restriction. I don't know about you, but that seems like a hot mess. One player could own all the land, the economy of the game would be all over the place, people would be able to do trade packs 24/7. That's not what AA was intended for.
Spiral Knights is FTP...LP is a penalty no matter how you spin it...you lose the ability to do things (you already paid to be able to do by purchasing the sub) by spending points. That's a penalty...call it an overuse penalty...however the devs consider what is overuse or not....
Well F2P players can't own land, so that'll save room. They could place limits on how much land you could own (numbers of farms, houses, their sizes, etc.). I don't think LP is the only way to limit this system.
Of course it's pay2win. You pay real money and have a character superior to that of others in the game.
For example by getting items with stats in some of those founder packs.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
And while you are acquiring them items does the LP not regen? I mean maybe for a F2P player it would be a bit more dicey but for a patron ? Could you ever get enough loot from a non-intensive play routine (IE: 4-6 hours a day) not to be able to ID it all as a patron? People keep saying it is wrong but I have to ask: Are consequences to your choices now negatives? The game is by no means restrictive and it even allows F2P players to transition to patrons without actually investing their own money into it, is this wrong? No, people would buy gold in the game regardless, better to make it harder for gold sellers to get in on the action.
Would still tank the economy utterly and have to cut out the legal RMT/patron "plexes" in-game.
Spiral Knights is the closest you are going to get from a full fledged MMORPG with an energy system to P2W and it still isn't even with the massively annoying wait times you can still player perfectly free just like in AA. Also you do not lose the ability to do anything, F2P players have things disabled but can still, eventually, gain access to patron status freely, stop trying to pass off having to think as losing the ability because by that logic what use are laws? (they inhibit your right to freely exercise your desires in real life like you claim LP is doing in AA).
What MMO has not been a "cash grab" since the beginning of MMOs? They've all required time sinks that serve no purpose other than to get you to play the game even more. That's not "Pay to Win" that's called business. There's a big difference between a product asking you to pay for it as a regular purchase and another that sounds like the cheap-o local factory outlet commercial "Buy now! Only $2.99 down. That's right, for just the low payment of $2.99 this could be yours!"
I feel sorry for people who think a game that wants a sub fee is "pay to win". It must be painful everytime a company releases a game they don't give you full access to for free... Skyrim, Dragon Age and all those other "Pay to Win" games must be really stressful for you guys!
Let's see where to begin.
You know that loot you just got from a boss? Yeah you'll have to buy a labor potion from the store to open it or wait for about half an hour to open the loot bag.
That mine node? Yeah labor potion.
Those fishing worms? Yeah buy the patron status so you can farm the worms without your farm being taken for ransom by a troll.
Sell your excess worms on the AH? Patron status.
Not P2W you say? You keep saying that, but you don't seem to understand what that means.
What's really interesting is Defiance patch today, Scapes got his grubby hands on that patch and now just about everything is in the store, anything that was remotely F2P is so outrageously expensive it's stupid. I'm personally watching what happens with Rift 3.0. If Rift 3.0 comes down and suddenly progression is linked to the store bought item, then my fears will have been confirmed.
No Tricks No Traps indeed. smh
You have to be joking right now....
people are saying P2W because of items being to powerful in the marketplace.
Your saying its SUB to WIN....cmon man that was the dumbest shit Ive ever heard....your so confused its not even funny
Lets see where to begin:
You know that labor potion you have to buy? that's 1000 LP and can be bought off the AH (you can buy even as a F2Per) for some gold (expect it in release to be fairly cheap). Now if you are an ADHD riddled teen who has to have everything this minute and cannot fathom doing something else instead of waiting then yes it sucks but then again you know those dungeons take 20-30 minutes minimum, right? Mhm.
That mine lode? Yeah LP, you can do other stuff and let your LPs build up like explore around, then do a bit of mining (better you get in mining less LP it costs, mmmmhm).
You know that exploration you did? revealed spots on the map less traveled, maybe even a remote island no one has settled, worms be farmed.
Selling on AH? Make friends with patron status you can trust or earn enough money to buy with in-game gold patron status (if you think no one's gonna be selling it you are hopelessly optimistic).
P2W you say? Here have a helping of Gunbound, Forsaken World and just for good measure SWtOR.