That was never the case in the good MMOs. In all the ones I played, grouping was harder and more involved, so it got more rewards, but if you didn't want to group, you could progress, just not as fast. Which is how it should be, that's basic game design and social engineering.
There's no evidence to say that people don't like grouping anymore. In fact, most themeparks these days die in record time primarily because there's no social glue in the games keeping people together.
Out of curiousity; which themepark games have died lately?
STO, Champions Online, Neverwinter, SWTOR, Rift, AoC, TESO all had their numbers PLUMMET within a month of launch. In several cases it bankrupted partner companies, forcing them to fire staff, merge the servers 3+ times, and go FTP.
In the case of AoC and SWTOR, the failures were so high profile and well documented that it shocked the industry.
this is such a garbage statement...
the locust effect is well known, game companies expect it. Neverwinter, Swtor, Rift ...even AoC (going on six + years online) are still around and doing fine.
And honestly. I don't think game companies really care if people buy games at retail markup, sub for 1mo and then drop. It's like a taxi getting the pick up fare. you're basically paying the highest possible mark up and requiring near zero resources. and they can always sucker you back in with a free month or something.
All game Dev companies ramp up for a launch, and constrict after the player base levels off.
just more of the tired doom and gloom of people who have some axe to grind.
I dont play class based systems anymore and I dont need to play ESO to know its a class based system.
I have played class based before and I perfer skill based.
The only class based game I have played in 6 years was AA which for me was a mistake. Although that game is better than most mainstream MMOs it wasnt good enough for me.
And so ladies and gentlemen. The truth has come out. Admitting it yourself now.
You bashing a game you haven't even played!
Making and continue to make baseless assumptions and claims on a game you haven't even tried! /FACEPALM!
You are the Perfect example of a troll. Tjeez.
sorry but that doesnt really make a huge difference. Granted it helps but it really dosent matter than much in this context.
unless of course the game is nothing at all like what Zenimax says it is.
Think of a car dealership. If the dealership tells you 'this is a 4x4 truck that is elevated from the ground, it has a cab and can pull 10,000 pounds'. you dont need to drive it to know what kind of car it is, unless of course the dealership is liying.
is the fault in your logic?
Maybe you should reread back your own posts and all the baseless claims you were making.
Baseless claims that have been countered time and again. Which you just ignored and just continue on your tirade.
so you are telling me that zenimax lied about the features of the game?..please read what I said about the car dealership....please
sorry that is the last I can say toward you, the mods are a bit random and I dont want to get banned for basically interacting to much.
Most official games sites are crap, including the ESO site, when it comes to explaining features and game description. There is hardly anthing there.
You have to go to one of the better community sites! If you trully are bit of a serious gamer you should know better by know!
So all you did is Reading some sparse headlines and descriptions on the main website and you know the game and every mechanic by heart now? LOL! You got to be joking! /FACEPALM
YOU CLAIM that ESO is nothing like Skyrim and doesn't play like Skyrim.
While People (me included) who actually DO play the game right now, tell you otherwise!
Except for choosing a starter class, the game feels and plays very much like Skyrim! Period!
I played the last 3 Elder Scrolls game extensively. Especially Skyrim and I am now subbed again to ESO!
So YES! I am actually playing the game and know what I am talking about.
I would love to know what level you have to have reached for it to start playing like Skyrim, so far i've only reached level 10, and its nothing like Skyrim at all, if at some yet to be determined point in the future it will i would be most interested to know what it is. Because at the moment, it seems to play more like Neverwinter.
I dont play class based systems anymore and I dont need to play ESO to know its a class based system.
I have played class based before and I perfer skill based.
The only class based game I have played in 6 years was AA which for me was a mistake. Although that game is better than most mainstream MMOs it wasnt good enough for me.
And so ladies and gentlemen. The truth has come out. Admitting it yourself now.
You bashing a game you haven't even played!
Making and continue to make baseless assumptions and claims on a game you haven't even tried! /FACEPALM!
You are the Perfect example of a troll. Tjeez.
sorry but that doesnt really make a huge difference. Granted it helps but it really dosent matter than much in this context.
unless of course the game is nothing at all like what Zenimax says it is.
Think of a car dealership. If the dealership tells you 'this is a 4x4 truck that is elevated from the ground, it has a cab and can pull 10,000 pounds'. you dont need to drive it to know what kind of car it is, unless of course the dealership is liying.
is the fault in your logic?
Maybe you should reread back your own posts and all the baseless claims you were making.
Baseless claims that have been countered time and again. Which you just ignored and just continue on your tirade.
so you are telling me that zenimax lied about the features of the game?..please read what I said about the car dealership....please
sorry that is the last I can say toward you, the mods are a bit random and I dont want to get banned for basically interacting to much.
Most official games sites are crap, including the ESO site, when it comes to explaining features and game description. There is hardly anthing there.
You have to go to one of the better community sites! If you trully are bit of a serious gamer you should know better by know!
So all you did is Reading some sparse headlines and descriptions on the main website and you know the game and every mechanic by heart now? LOL! You got to be joking! /FACEPALM
YOU CLAIM that ESO is nothing like Skyrim and doesn't play like Skyrim.
While People (me included) who actually DO play the game right now, tell you otherwise!
Except for choosing a starter class, the game feels and plays very much like Skyrim! Period!
I played the last 3 Elder Scrolls game extensively. Especially Skyrim and I am now subbed again to ESO!
So YES! I am actually playing the game and know what I am talking about.
I would love to know what level you have to have reached for it to start playing like Skyrim, so far i've only reached level 10, and its nothing like Skyrim at all, if at some yet to be determined point in the future it will i would be most interested to know what it is. Because at the moment, it seems to play more like Neverwinter.
It plays nothing like Skyrim. I don't care how extensively someone who claims this has played the game, they are wrong.
I would love to know what level you have to have reached for it to start playing like Skyrim, so far i've only reached level 10, and its nothing like Skyrim at all, if at some yet to be determined point in the future it will i would be most interested to know what it is. Because at the moment, it seems to play more like Neverwinter.
Then you have never played Skyrim or just don't know anymore how it was. :-/
Where to start.....
The User Interface (only bit better). ..........check
characters and races ..........check
The combat system (based on Magicka, Health and Stamina) with Block and fatigue is a direct carbon copy from Skyrim....check
Skill system. You equip a weapon, Shield, armor, spells and use it and Level up and open up skills in that weapon, Shield, armor, spell skill line ..............check
Exploration, picking up crap everywhere, checking bookshelves and read books to increase skills, picking up armor/weapons from racks, NPC interaction, etc are all carbon copied straight from Skyrim..... check
So while it isn't an absolute 100% carbon copy of Skyrim (which, if you have an sense of reality, just doesn't translate well into MMO setting)..... for me it comes pretty darn close in a hell lot of things.
The main parts of ES in ESO are from a lore stand point. Really other than that it's all MMO. It's not a bad thing; I actually love how they mixed it myself. The world is huge as well. I'm probably like 1 of 100 people that actually did all 3 factions on a single character, but I enjoyed every second of it
My only complaint is that they're reducing the difficulty of Craglorn. I liked how much you died there lol. For once, there was a challenging aspect to MMOs that you didn't have to unlock or get super geared up and it becomes a cake walk. I was tanking in full VR12 legendary gear, and still getting my butt handed to me in trials and boss fights. Good times
I would love to know what level you have to have reached for it to start playing like Skyrim, so far i've only reached level 10, and its nothing like Skyrim at all, if at some yet to be determined point in the future it will i would be most interested to know what it is. Because at the moment, it seems to play more like Neverwinter.
Then you have never played Skyrim or just don't know anymore how it was. :-/
Where to start.....
The User Interface (only bit better). ..........check
characters and races ..........check
The combat system (based on Magicka, Health and Stamina) with Block and fatigue is a direct carbon copy from Skyrim....check
Skill system. You equip a weapon, Shield, armor, spells and use it and Level up and open up skills in that weapon, Shield, armor, spell skill line ..............check
Exploration, picking up crap everywhere, checking bookshelves and read books to increase skills, picking up armor/weapons from racks, NPC interaction, etc are all carbon copied straight from Skyrim..... check
So while it isn't an absolute 100% carbon copy of Skyrim (which, if you have an sense of reality, just doesn't translate well into MMO setting)..... for me it comes pretty darn close in a hell lot of things.
I've played Skyrim extensively, still do in fact, the magic system in it is my favourite part, if only it was in ESO too. I have also played Neverwinter, which by the sound of it, you haven't, but ESO does seem to play more like Neverwinter than Skyrim, if you download it and give Neverwinter a whirl, (its a F2P game) you will see what i mean. This is not about the game setting btw, this is about how the game itself plays, mostly from the combat.
I would love to know what level you have to have reached for it to start playing like Skyrim, so far i've only reached level 10, and its nothing like Skyrim at all, if at some yet to be determined point in the future it will i would be most interested to know what it is. Because at the moment, it seems to play more like Neverwinter.
Then you have never played Skyrim or just don't know anymore how it was. :-/
Where to start.....
The User Interface (only bit better). ..........check
characters and races ..........check
The combat system (based on Magicka, Health and Stamina) with Block and fatigue is a direct carbon copy from Skyrim....check
Skill system. You equip a weapon, Shield, armor, spells and use it and Level up and open up skills in that weapon, Shield, armor, spell skill line ..............check
Exploration, picking up crap everywhere, checking bookshelves and read books to increase skills, picking up armor/weapons from racks, NPC interaction, etc are all carbon copied straight from Skyrim..... check
So while it isn't an absolute 100% carbon copy of Skyrim (which, if you have an sense of reality, just doesn't translate well into MMO setting)..... for me it comes pretty darn close in a hell lot of things.
You managed to pluck some superficial similarities out of the air.
The combat system is not the same, it is basically a tab targeting, hybrid system. It has classes. It has skills bespoke to those classes. Due to the classes magicka and stamina perform a differnet function. It has a linear on-rails progression through zones. It has zones.
It has very little in common with Skyrim other than a superficial veneer.
That was never the case in the good MMOs. In all the ones I played, grouping was harder and more involved, so it got more rewards, but if you didn't want to group, you could progress, just not as fast. Which is how it should be, that's basic game design and social engineering.
There's no evidence to say that people don't like grouping anymore. In fact, most themeparks these days die in record time primarily because there's no social glue in the games keeping people together.
Out of curiousity; which themepark games have died lately?
Well, there is Vanguard to mention one (probably the latest) and few seems to feel pretty sick, but few do die the first 10 years after release.
But he do have a point, MMOs are not doing as well now as a few years back and it is very well possible that it is due to people tiring of the way most of them are (it could also be because they are more out now).
MMOs will have to change just like any other genre, question is what they will look like in 10 years and if they still will be what people call "themeparks" by then.
But right now themeparks are still by far more popular even if that doesn't mean devs shouldn't try new things. Looking on past games might give some ideas, certain of the old games had some great ideas that could be remade into awesome games (Asherons call comes to mind) but you also need to be careful, remaking UO or EQ with modern graphics would not get many players today.
In ESOs case they were a bit too focused on "cool" mechanics like phasing which were well made in LOTRO but doesn't work when you use too much of it, it just divide the players (and cutscenes tend to make other group members wait for not much). They should have put more work on either creating new mechanics instead, or implement working mechanics from other genres (like from the TES games).
ESO didn't totally fail but neither did it as well as they were hoping, the genre do needs fresh ideas as badly as the FPS games did before Half-life and CS.
But it is a complicated question, no one really knows how the next generation of MMOs should be yet.
I would love to know what level you have to have reached for it to start playing like Skyrim, so far i've only reached level 10, and its nothing like Skyrim at all, if at some yet to be determined point in the future it will i would be most interested to know what it is. Because at the moment, it seems to play more like Neverwinter.
Then you have never played Skyrim or just don't know anymore how it was. :-/
Where to start.....
The User Interface (only bit better). ..........check
characters and races ..........check
The combat system (based on Magicka, Health and Stamina) with Block and fatigue is a direct carbon copy from Skyrim....check
Skill system. You equip a weapon, Shield, armor, spells and use it and Level up and open up skills in that weapon, Shield, armor, spell skill line ..............check
Exploration, picking up crap everywhere, checking bookshelves and read books to increase skills, picking up armor/weapons from racks, NPC interaction, etc are all carbon copied straight from Skyrim..... check
So while it isn't an absolute 100% carbon copy of Skyrim (which, if you have an sense of reality, just doesn't translate well into MMO setting)..... for me it comes pretty darn close in a hell lot of things.
You managed to pluck some superficial similarities out of the air.
The combat system is not the same, it is basically a tab targeting, hybrid system. It has classes. It has skills bespoke to those classes. Due to the classes magicka and stamina perform a differnet function. It has a linear on-rails progression through zones. It has zones.
It has very little in common with Skyrim other than a superficial veneer.
LOL! It's not a TAB target combat system! The combat system is CARBON COPY from Skyrim lol! Come on now!
Yes you can TAB to "highlight" a mob in ESO, for people's convinience to give them some MMO familiarity, but you DO NOT need to and I in fact never make use of it, as you still need to Direct your attacks with center cursor.
I never ever TAB to target in ESO. You have a center cursor on your screen to direct your attacks. Exactly like in Skyrim.
So for me the combat feels exactly like I am used to in Skyrim. Especially when you play Melee, like I do. I only play melee classes and see ZERO difference between Skyrim and ESO.
I play a Templar in ESO, so I also make a lot of use of Magic. Yes you do not slot a specific spell in either left or right hand, but have a short cut bar with spells and combat specials. That's the alteration they made.
But again, even With Magic it's still not TAB target, you can Direct Magic attacks with the center cursor. Just like in Skyrim (or any other ES game).
That's a big difference compared to many other MMO's where you are "forced" to TAB target and often a total uncontrollable mess, and what I love With ES games and now in ESO! You have much more direct control in combat and direction.
The main parts of ES in ESO are from a lore stand point. Really other than that it's all MMO.
I wish. They tried too hard to please both camps, and ended up just making a bad MMO and a bad singleplayer game (Just like SWTOR).
The phasing, the instancing, the linear quest grinding, all flies in the face of it being an MMO. Shoe horning in the Skyrim UI, the theft system, attempting to make it seem like an ES game... Firor's origin design would have worked if the publishers hadn't caved to the whining of the singleplayer fans. THe fans who wouldn't have stuck around anyway.
We almost had DAoC 2 with TES lore, that would have been amazing.
I would love to know what level you have to have reached for it to start playing like Skyrim, so far i've only reached level 10, and its nothing like Skyrim at all, if at some yet to be determined point in the future it will i would be most interested to know what it is. Because at the moment, it seems to play more like Neverwinter.
Then you have never played Skyrim or just don't know anymore how it was. :-/
Where to start.....
The User Interface (only bit better). ..........check
characters and races ..........check
The combat system (based on Magicka, Health and Stamina) with Block and fatigue is a direct carbon copy from Skyrim....check
Skill system. You equip a weapon, Shield, armor, spells and use it and Level up and open up skills in that weapon, Shield, armor, spell skill line ..............check
Exploration, picking up crap everywhere, checking bookshelves and read books to increase skills, picking up armor/weapons from racks, NPC interaction, etc are all carbon copied straight from Skyrim..... check
So while it isn't an absolute 100% carbon copy of Skyrim (which, if you have an sense of reality, just doesn't translate well into MMO setting)..... for me it comes pretty darn close in a hell lot of things.
You managed to pluck some superficial similarities out of the air.
The combat system is not the same, it is basically a tab targeting, hybrid system. It has classes. It has skills bespoke to those classes. Due to the classes magicka and stamina perform a differnet function. It has a linear on-rails progression through zones. It has zones.
It has very little in common with Skyrim other than a superficial veneer.
LOL! It's not a TAB target combat system! The combat system is CARBON COPY from Skyrim lol! Come on now!
Yes you can TAB to "highlight" a mob in ESO, for people's convinience to give them some MMO familiarity, but you DO NOT need to and I in fact never make use of it.
I never ever TAB to target in ESO. You have a center cursor on your screen to direct your attacks. Exactly like in Skyrim.
So for me the combat feels exactly like I am used to in Skyrim. Especially when you play Melee, like I do. I only play melee classes and see ZERO difference between Skyrim and ESO.
I play a Templar in ESO, so I also make a lot of use of Magic. Yes you do not slot a specific spell in either left or right hand, but have a short cut bar with spells and combat specials. That's the alteration they made.
But again, even With Magic it's still not TAB target, you can Direct Magic attacks with the center cursor. Just like in Skyrim (or any other ES game).
That's a big difference compared to many other MMO's where you are "forced" to TAB target and often a total uncontrollable mess, and what I love With ES games and now in ESO! You have much more direct control in combat and direction.
Seriously have you played the game, if not go and play it, and if you have play it again. Then come back here and tell me it is not a tab-targeting hybrid combat system. It is, that is a fact.
That was never the case in the good MMOs. In all the ones I played, grouping was harder and more involved, so it got more rewards, but if you didn't want to group, you could progress, just not as fast. Which is how it should be, that's basic game design and social engineering.
There's no evidence to say that people don't like grouping anymore. In fact, most themeparks these days die in record time primarily because there's no social glue in the games keeping people together.
Out of curiousity; which themepark games have died lately?
STO, Champions Online, Neverwinter, SWTOR, Rift, AoC, TESO all had their numbers PLUMMET within a month of launch. In several cases it bankrupted partner companies, forcing them to fire staff, merge the servers 3+ times, and go FTP.
In the case of AoC and SWTOR, the failures were so high profile and well documented that it shocked the industry.
Ignorant nonsense. Though some of these games didn't get the numbers one had hoped for, they are extremely profitable today and enjoy a 'healthy' player base.
Age of Conan was such a massive flop two of Funcom's partners went bankrupt. It merged the servers 3 times and then went FTP. It's current "healthy population" is less than pre 2004 MMO sub levels.
STO and CHO both flopped hard on release and didn't find their niche until they restructured the game and went FTP.
Neverwinter has already been more or less forgotten entirely.
Rift merged it's servers 3 times before going FTP, and has merged again since then, with a constantly shrinking playerbase.
SWOTOR had a budget of 300 million, and spent another 200 million on advertising. It sold over a million boxes on launch day, and almost right away lost it all. It was down to about 400k subscribers, and had merged its servers 3 times, and fired 80% of their staff just to keep the game profitable, before going FTP. Their staff is still so tiny that they can't even add new races to the game because they don't have the personel for it. It was supposed to be the biggest MMO in the world and it currently has less players than EQ did in 1999.
Compare all these high profile failures to the pre 2004 MMOs that launched, and then GREW slowly over time before peaking YEARS after launch.
Compare this to Eve, that at 550k subscribers and is STILL growing, because it's designed well and knows how to appeal to its niche.
There's correlation there.
You have absolutely no idea what you talk about!
Age of Conan a massive flop? Dude! They sold over 800.000 boxes in the first month and pretty much recouped their Investment within the first 2 months lol.
And then they crashed so hard they merged all their servers down to 3 people, FUncom's partner company went bankrupt, and they went FTP.
Good businesses don't SHRINK after launch of a product, they GROW.
Seriously have you played the game, if not go and play it, and if you have play it again. Then come back here and tell me it is not a tab-targeting hybrid combat system. It is, that is a fact.
Maybe it's you who should go and play the game.
It's not TAB target! I never use the TAB key in ESO. Ever! I direct my attacks with the center cursor.
Seriously have you played the game, if not go and play it, and if you have play it again. Then come back here and tell me it is not a tab-targeting hybrid combat system. It is, that is a fact.
Maybe it's you who should go and play the game.
It's not TAB target! I never use the TAB key in ESO. Ever! I direct my attacks with the center cursor.
Yes it is, it is tab targeting hybrid combat. That is what it is. Where is the argument? Press tab, see what happens.
That was never the case in the good MMOs. In all the ones I played, grouping was harder and more involved, so it got more rewards, but if you didn't want to group, you could progress, just not as fast. Which is how it should be, that's basic game design and social engineering.
There's no evidence to say that people don't like grouping anymore. In fact, most themeparks these days die in record time primarily because there's no social glue in the games keeping people together.
Out of curiousity; which themepark games have died lately?
STO, Champions Online, Neverwinter, SWTOR, Rift, AoC, TESO all had their numbers PLUMMET within a month of launch. In several cases it bankrupted partner companies, forcing them to fire staff, merge the servers 3+ times, and go FTP.
In the case of AoC and SWTOR, the failures were so high profile and well documented that it shocked the industry.
Ignorant nonsense. Though some of these games didn't get the numbers one had hoped for, they are extremely profitable today and enjoy a 'healthy' player base.
Age of Conan was such a massive flop two of Funcom's partners went bankrupt. It merged the servers 3 times and then went FTP. It's current "healthy population" is less than pre 2004 MMO sub levels.
STO and CHO both flopped hard on release and didn't find their niche until they restructured the game and went FTP.
Neverwinter has already been more or less forgotten entirely.
Rift merged it's servers 3 times before going FTP, and has merged again since then, with a constantly shrinking playerbase.
SWOTOR had a budget of 300 million, and spent another 200 million on advertising. It sold over a million boxes on launch day, and almost right away lost it all. It was down to about 400k subscribers, and had merged its servers 3 times, and fired 80% of their staff just to keep the game profitable, before going FTP. Their staff is still so tiny that they can't even add new races to the game because they don't have the personel for it. It was supposed to be the biggest MMO in the world and it currently has less players than EQ did in 1999.
Compare all these high profile failures to the pre 2004 MMOs that launched, and then GREW slowly over time before peaking YEARS after launch.
Compare this to Eve, that at 550k subscribers and is STILL growing, because it's designed well and knows how to appeal to its niche.
There's correlation there.
Sandbox MMOs start slow and increase population over time (EvE is a good example).
Incorrect. It's not just sandboxes that grow over time. ALmost all pre WoW MMOs grew like that over time, because they focused on socliazing and virtual worlds, and had their own unique mechanics which built up unique playerbases, that stuck around a lot longer because the games were all new and exciting from one another, AND because they made lasting friendships in the game.
Why do you think SMed bailed on EQ3 being a themepark? Because he agrees the themepark model isn't sustainable. You can't have a growing business when all your players leave after 3 months.
Age of Conan a massive flop? Dude! They sold over 800.000 boxes in the first month and pretty much recouped their Investment within the first 2 months lol.
And then they crashed so hard they merged all their servers down to 3 people, FUncom's partner company went bankrupt, and they went FTP.
Good businesses don't SHRINK after launch of a product, they GROW.
AGAIN! You have absolutely no idea what you talking about!
Funcom expanded after AoC release. Even when Subscription numbers went down!
They were working on The Secret World the years after and were expanding because of it! Up till TSW's release they still had a Money reserve of close to 40 million dollars on the bank!
It wasn't until the CEO dumped all his Stock in secret just before TSW's launch (which is illegal), that Funcom crashed and burned and had to fire a lot of People the months after.
So please! Get your facts straight man! You are completely hilarious!
Seriously have you played the game, if not go and play it, and if you have play it again. Then come back here and tell me it is not a tab-targeting hybrid combat system. It is, that is a fact.
Maybe it's you who should go and play the game.
It's not TAB target! I never use the TAB key in ESO. Ever! I direct my attacks with the center cursor.
Yes it is, it is tab targeting hybrid combat. That is what it is. Where is the argument? Press tab, see what happens.
I press TAB and it highlights a target... then I direct my center cursor on an another target and happily kill said target.
I think there is great confusion as to what Elder Scrolls games offered and involved. Many of the same features are in ESO:
1. Instancing - in Skyrim, Oblivion and I believe Morrowind...been a while, when you got a quest, it typically took you to an instanced part of the world to complete. There is no difference with ESO...the story and quest system is almost exactly the same.
2. Combat - Exactly the same
3. Classes - This is very different, but for very good reason. Take Darkfall for example. It's initial iteration allowed anyone to be anything they wanted...so everyone chose the handful of preferred skills and used them...Even DF realized that they needed some control over structure of skills. ESO does this with about as much freedom as possible with an MMO.
4. freedom - is there less of it in ESO, of course, but I think it's overstated. In Elder Scrolls, sure I could walk around and do whatever, but I'd end up going to places that have a backstory and I never got to hear about it because I didnt care to follow the story. There was also ALOT of dead space in the single player world....it can be as big as it wants, but what is really there? I think ESO took the best parts of the worlds and removed the dead space. You can still wander around freely, as Ive done it many times. you can go fish, find treasure boxes (which grant xp), discover new locations, which is worth it because alot of the locales actually look great and are unique, gather, grind (bleh), craft...it is a themepark that brings alot with it. You've got the Justice system and you can pick up random armor and weaps lying around as well as find mats in crates and book reading.
5. Most of the complaints I hear come from the all out PVP full war crowd....I don't know where you got the dillusion from that Elder Scrolls was a very PVP centric IP, but I remember each game to have been single player experiences...with lotsa quests...and story...Always seemed to be very focused on PVE.
I think there is great confusion as to what Elder Scrolls games offered and involved. Many of the same features are in ESO:
1. Instancing - in Skyrim, Oblivion and I believe Morrowind...been a while, when you got a quest, it typically took you to an instanced part of the world to complete. There is no difference with ESO...the story and quest system is almost exactly the same.
2. Combat - Exactly the same
3. Classes - This is very different, but for very good reason. Take Darkfall for example. It's initial iteration allowed anyone to be anything they wanted...so everyone chose the handful of preferred skills and used them...Even DF realized that they needed some control over structure of skills. ESO does this with about as much freedom as possible with an MMO.
4. freedom - is there less of it in ESO, of course, but I think it's overstated. In Elder Scrolls, sure I could walk around and do whatever, but I'd end up going to places that have a backstory and I never got to hear about it because I didnt care to follow the story. There was also ALOT of dead space in the single player world....it can be as big as it wants, but what is really there? I think ESO took the best parts of the worlds and removed the dead space. You can still wander around freely, as Ive done it many times. you can go fish, find treasure boxes (which grant xp), discover new locations, which is worth it because alot of the locales actually look great and are unique, gather, grind (bleh), craft...it is a themepark that brings alot with it. You've got the Justice system and you can pick up random armor and weaps lying around as well as find mats in crates and book reading.
5. Most of the complaints I hear come from the all out PVP full war crowd....I don't know where you got the dillusion from that Elder Scrolls was a very PVP centric IP, but I remember each game to have been single player experiences...with lotsa quests...and story...Always seemed to be very focused on PVE.
Well said. And anyone refuting this and saying that the ES games were completely open world without instancing are just flatout ignorant and lying through their teeth. Most likely never played any ES game to begin with.
Any Door or Dungeon entrance you went through in Skyrim had a loading screen.
Seriously have you played the game, if not go and play it, and if you have play it again. Then come back here and tell me it is not a tab-targeting hybrid combat system. It is, that is a fact.
Maybe it's you who should go and play the game.
It's not TAB target! I never use the TAB key in ESO. Ever! I direct my attacks with the center cursor.
Yes it is, it is tab targeting hybrid combat. That is what it is. Where is the argument? Press tab, see what happens.
I press TAB and it highlights a target... then I direct my center cursor on an another target and happily kill said target.
Your point is?
Good I am glad you finally agree. it is a tab-targeting hybrid combat system.
I think there is great confusion as to what Elder Scrolls games offered and involved. Many of the same features are in ESO:
1. Instancing - in Skyrim, Oblivion and I believe Morrowind...been a while, when you got a quest, it typically took you to an instanced part of the world to complete. There is no difference with ESO...the story and quest system is almost exactly the same.
2. Combat - Exactly the same
3. Classes - This is very different, but for very good reason. Take Darkfall for example. It's initial iteration allowed anyone to be anything they wanted...so everyone chose the handful of preferred skills and used them...Even DF realized that they needed some control over structure of skills. ESO does this with about as much freedom as possible with an MMO.
4. freedom - is there less of it in ESO, of course, but I think it's overstated. In Elder Scrolls, sure I could walk around and do whatever, but I'd end up going to places that have a backstory and I never got to hear about it because I didnt care to follow the story. There was also ALOT of dead space in the single player world....it can be as big as it wants, but what is really there? I think ESO took the best parts of the worlds and removed the dead space. You can still wander around freely, as Ive done it many times. you can go fish, find treasure boxes (which grant xp), discover new locations, which is worth it because alot of the locales actually look great and are unique, gather, grind (bleh), craft...it is a themepark that brings alot with it. You've got the Justice system and you can pick up random armor and weaps lying around as well as find mats in crates and book reading.
5. Most of the complaints I hear come from the all out PVP full war crowd....I don't know where you got the dillusion from that Elder Scrolls was a very PVP centric IP, but I remember each game to have been single player experiences...with lotsa quests...and story...Always seemed to be very focused on PVE.
Well said. And anyone refuting this and saying that the ES games were completely open world without instancing are just flatout ignorant and lying through their teeth. Most likely never played any ES game to begin with.
Any Door or Dungeon entrance you went through in Skyrim had a loading screen.
There are a couple of things on his list I would like to address.
3. classes: first off Darkfall (at least to me) was and is a brilliant game. One of the best MMOs I have ever played, the skill based system works fantastic. So why where players complaining? because players in a difficult PVP game are always going to complain. There are people who would complain that some races had an advantage because they might have a larger hit box because of size. They would complain if everyone had to be the same and then they would complain that some 'classes' had more of an advantage over others.
4. I played well over 200 hours in Morrowind (which is one of my favorite games ever) and also more than 200 hours in Skyrm and I have no idea what the story line in either of them is. Fact is not all players care about the story and I am one of those players so what is nice about 'open world' games is that you can play without knowing the story, without questing (much) and still have a lot of fun.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Seriously have you played the game, if not go and play it, and if you have play it again. Then come back here and tell me it is not a tab-targeting hybrid combat system. It is, that is a fact.
Maybe it's you who should go and play the game.
It's not TAB target! I never use the TAB key in ESO. Ever! I direct my attacks with the center cursor.
Yes it is, it is tab targeting hybrid combat. That is what it is. Where is the argument? Press tab, see what happens.
I press TAB and it highlights a target... then I direct my center cursor on an another target and happily kill said target.
Your point is?
Good I am glad you finally agree. it is a tab-targeting hybrid combat system.
No I do not! You have no Clue what an actual TAB-targeting system is.
With TAB targeting you are FORCED to TAB a target before you can attack and the moment you unTAB (be it by accident) you will not be able to attack anymore.
In ESO you "can" TAB to highlight. BIG DIFFERENCE! It doesn't make any difference in combat when you highlight a target or not. It does not add any functionality like in a true TAB targeting system. So it's not even Hybrid, as you still need to Direct your attacks with center cursor! Otherwise I am just hitting air.
Age of Conan a massive flop? Dude! They sold over 800.000 boxes in the first month and pretty much recouped their Investment within the first 2 months lol.
And then they crashed so hard they merged all their servers down to 3 servers, FUncom's partner company went bankrupt, and they went FTP.
Good businesses don't SHRINK after launch of a product, they GROW.
AGAIN! You have absolutely no idea what you talking about!
Funcom expanded after AoC release. Even when Subscription numbers went down!
That's why their partner company filed for bankruptcy? ...yeah.
Comments
this is such a garbage statement...
the locust effect is well known, game companies expect it. Neverwinter, Swtor, Rift ...even AoC (going on six + years online) are still around and doing fine.
And honestly. I don't think game companies really care if people buy games at retail markup, sub for 1mo and then drop. It's like a taxi getting the pick up fare. you're basically paying the highest possible mark up and requiring near zero resources. and they can always sucker you back in with a free month or something.
All game Dev companies ramp up for a launch, and constrict after the player base levels off.
just more of the tired doom and gloom of people who have some axe to grind.
I would love to know what level you have to have reached for it to start playing like Skyrim, so far i've only reached level 10, and its nothing like Skyrim at all, if at some yet to be determined point in the future it will i would be most interested to know what it is. Because at the moment, it seems to play more like Neverwinter.
It plays nothing like Skyrim. I don't care how extensively someone who claims this has played the game, they are wrong.
Then you have never played Skyrim or just don't know anymore how it was. :-/
Where to start.....
The User Interface (only bit better). ..........check
characters and races ..........check
The combat system (based on Magicka, Health and Stamina) with Block and fatigue is a direct carbon copy from Skyrim....check
Skill system. You equip a weapon, Shield, armor, spells and use it and Level up and open up skills in that weapon, Shield, armor, spell skill line ..............check
Exploration, picking up crap everywhere, checking bookshelves and read books to increase skills, picking up armor/weapons from racks, NPC interaction, etc are all carbon copied straight from Skyrim..... check
So while it isn't an absolute 100% carbon copy of Skyrim (which, if you have an sense of reality, just doesn't translate well into MMO setting)..... for me it comes pretty darn close in a hell lot of things.
The main parts of ES in ESO are from a lore stand point. Really other than that it's all MMO. It's not a bad thing; I actually love how they mixed it myself. The world is huge as well. I'm probably like 1 of 100 people that actually did all 3 factions on a single character, but I enjoyed every second of it
My only complaint is that they're reducing the difficulty of Craglorn. I liked how much you died there lol. For once, there was a challenging aspect to MMOs that you didn't have to unlock or get super geared up and it becomes a cake walk. I was tanking in full VR12 legendary gear, and still getting my butt handed to me in trials and boss fights. Good times
I've played Skyrim extensively, still do in fact, the magic system in it is my favourite part, if only it was in ESO too. I have also played Neverwinter, which by the sound of it, you haven't, but ESO does seem to play more like Neverwinter than Skyrim, if you download it and give Neverwinter a whirl, (its a F2P game) you will see what i mean. This is not about the game setting btw, this is about how the game itself plays, mostly from the combat.
I like this game, but I never felt that it was an elder scroll game like Skyrim or Oblivion.
If it goes f2p, I might play it for a while.
http://gnomophobia.com
You managed to pluck some superficial similarities out of the air.
The combat system is not the same, it is basically a tab targeting, hybrid system. It has classes. It has skills bespoke to those classes. Due to the classes magicka and stamina perform a differnet function. It has a linear on-rails progression through zones. It has zones.
It has very little in common with Skyrim other than a superficial veneer.
It's an Elder Scrolls MMO.
Or, it's an MMO set in the Elder Scrolls universe.
It's not Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim. But it draws a lot of inspiration from those games.
Well, there is Vanguard to mention one (probably the latest) and few seems to feel pretty sick, but few do die the first 10 years after release.
But he do have a point, MMOs are not doing as well now as a few years back and it is very well possible that it is due to people tiring of the way most of them are (it could also be because they are more out now).
MMOs will have to change just like any other genre, question is what they will look like in 10 years and if they still will be what people call "themeparks" by then.
But right now themeparks are still by far more popular even if that doesn't mean devs shouldn't try new things. Looking on past games might give some ideas, certain of the old games had some great ideas that could be remade into awesome games (Asherons call comes to mind) but you also need to be careful, remaking UO or EQ with modern graphics would not get many players today.
In ESOs case they were a bit too focused on "cool" mechanics like phasing which were well made in LOTRO but doesn't work when you use too much of it, it just divide the players (and cutscenes tend to make other group members wait for not much). They should have put more work on either creating new mechanics instead, or implement working mechanics from other genres (like from the TES games).
ESO didn't totally fail but neither did it as well as they were hoping, the genre do needs fresh ideas as badly as the FPS games did before Half-life and CS.
But it is a complicated question, no one really knows how the next generation of MMOs should be yet.
OP: lore wise, yes. Gameplay wise, not really.
LOL! It's not a TAB target combat system! The combat system is CARBON COPY from Skyrim lol! Come on now!
Yes you can TAB to "highlight" a mob in ESO, for people's convinience to give them some MMO familiarity, but you DO NOT need to and I in fact never make use of it, as you still need to Direct your attacks with center cursor.
I never ever TAB to target in ESO. You have a center cursor on your screen to direct your attacks. Exactly like in Skyrim.
So for me the combat feels exactly like I am used to in Skyrim. Especially when you play Melee, like I do. I only play melee classes and see ZERO difference between Skyrim and ESO.
I play a Templar in ESO, so I also make a lot of use of Magic. Yes you do not slot a specific spell in either left or right hand, but have a short cut bar with spells and combat specials. That's the alteration they made.
But again, even With Magic it's still not TAB target, you can Direct Magic attacks with the center cursor. Just like in Skyrim (or any other ES game).
That's a big difference compared to many other MMO's where you are "forced" to TAB target and often a total uncontrollable mess, and what I love With ES games and now in ESO! You have much more direct control in combat and direction.
I wish. They tried too hard to please both camps, and ended up just making a bad MMO and a bad singleplayer game (Just like SWTOR).
The phasing, the instancing, the linear quest grinding, all flies in the face of it being an MMO. Shoe horning in the Skyrim UI, the theft system, attempting to make it seem like an ES game... Firor's origin design would have worked if the publishers hadn't caved to the whining of the singleplayer fans. THe fans who wouldn't have stuck around anyway.
We almost had DAoC 2 with TES lore, that would have been amazing.
Seriously have you played the game, if not go and play it, and if you have play it again. Then come back here and tell me it is not a tab-targeting hybrid combat system. It is, that is a fact.
And then they crashed so hard they merged all their servers down to 3 people, FUncom's partner company went bankrupt, and they went FTP.
Good businesses don't SHRINK after launch of a product, they GROW.
Maybe it's you who should go and play the game.
It's not TAB target! I never use the TAB key in ESO. Ever! I direct my attacks with the center cursor.
Yes it is, it is tab targeting hybrid combat. That is what it is. Where is the argument? Press tab, see what happens.
AGAIN! You have absolutely no idea what you talking about!
Funcom expanded after AoC release. Even when Subscription numbers went down!
They were working on The Secret World the years after and were expanding because of it! Up till TSW's release they still had a Money reserve of close to 40 million dollars on the bank!
It wasn't until the CEO dumped all his Stock in secret just before TSW's launch (which is illegal), that Funcom crashed and burned and had to fire a lot of People the months after.
So please! Get your facts straight man! You are completely hilarious!
I press TAB and it highlights a target... then I direct my center cursor on an another target and happily kill said target.
Your point is?
I think there is great confusion as to what Elder Scrolls games offered and involved. Many of the same features are in ESO:
1. Instancing - in Skyrim, Oblivion and I believe Morrowind...been a while, when you got a quest, it typically took you to an instanced part of the world to complete. There is no difference with ESO...the story and quest system is almost exactly the same.
2. Combat - Exactly the same
3. Classes - This is very different, but for very good reason. Take Darkfall for example. It's initial iteration allowed anyone to be anything they wanted...so everyone chose the handful of preferred skills and used them...Even DF realized that they needed some control over structure of skills. ESO does this with about as much freedom as possible with an MMO.
4. freedom - is there less of it in ESO, of course, but I think it's overstated. In Elder Scrolls, sure I could walk around and do whatever, but I'd end up going to places that have a backstory and I never got to hear about it because I didnt care to follow the story. There was also ALOT of dead space in the single player world....it can be as big as it wants, but what is really there? I think ESO took the best parts of the worlds and removed the dead space. You can still wander around freely, as Ive done it many times. you can go fish, find treasure boxes (which grant xp), discover new locations, which is worth it because alot of the locales actually look great and are unique, gather, grind (bleh), craft...it is a themepark that brings alot with it. You've got the Justice system and you can pick up random armor and weaps lying around as well as find mats in crates and book reading.
5. Most of the complaints I hear come from the all out PVP full war crowd....I don't know where you got the dillusion from that Elder Scrolls was a very PVP centric IP, but I remember each game to have been single player experiences...with lotsa quests...and story...Always seemed to be very focused on PVE.
Well said. And anyone refuting this and saying that the ES games were completely open world without instancing are just flatout ignorant and lying through their teeth. Most likely never played any ES game to begin with.
Any Door or Dungeon entrance you went through in Skyrim had a loading screen.
Good I am glad you finally agree. it is a tab-targeting hybrid combat system.
There are a couple of things on his list I would like to address.
3. classes: first off Darkfall (at least to me) was and is a brilliant game. One of the best MMOs I have ever played, the skill based system works fantastic. So why where players complaining? because players in a difficult PVP game are always going to complain. There are people who would complain that some races had an advantage because they might have a larger hit box because of size. They would complain if everyone had to be the same and then they would complain that some 'classes' had more of an advantage over others.
4. I played well over 200 hours in Morrowind (which is one of my favorite games ever) and also more than 200 hours in Skyrm and I have no idea what the story line in either of them is. Fact is not all players care about the story and I am one of those players so what is nice about 'open world' games is that you can play without knowing the story, without questing (much) and still have a lot of fun.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
No I do not! You have no Clue what an actual TAB-targeting system is.
With TAB targeting you are FORCED to TAB a target before you can attack and the moment you unTAB (be it by accident) you will not be able to attack anymore.
In ESO you "can" TAB to highlight. BIG DIFFERENCE! It doesn't make any difference in combat when you highlight a target or not. It does not add any functionality like in a true TAB targeting system. So it's not even Hybrid, as you still need to Direct your attacks with center cursor! Otherwise I am just hitting air.
That's why their partner company filed for bankruptcy? ...yeah.