Who gives a $%&%^&*$* if someone pays a sub and spends money in a cash shop too? This is what it all boils down to for me.
I don't give a flying fuck if someone wants to spend more cash to get to where I will be quicker ffs grow up.
WhatI I detest if fucking retards that go to a F2P option game and whine and fucking moan they can't get what a sub paying player gets
My feelings exactly.
Whether its spending money in the cash shop or having more free time....there is always a bigger fish in the pond. Not everyone is or should be equal in mmorpgs and im fine with that.
Enjoy the game or dont.
Even without a cash shop, most of the people railing on the game would never be on par with the top players anyway...
In all honesty most people railing against the game sound like people who've never worked for a living and forget that time, any time, can have monetary value ergo it is up to you if you think your time is well spent with or without a sub and with or without cash shop items... it goes to your definition of fun basically and if you have enough free time and ambition to make your goals happen in a game which allows it of you or if you feel you would get a better deal from paying a little extra to boost your way there. Is this wrong? I'd say no because games like WoW, EQ 1, etc never gave you a choice it was either grind or be left behind and AA gives you the option, however grindtastic it may end up being (hinges mostly on players not the devs as they will be the ones trading cash shop currency for gold), to play utterly free and get absolutely everything in-game (from patron to whatever CS items there are, legalized RMT will mean there will always be people selling cash shop currency, years after being put in the dilithium exchange still has quite decent offers, is this wrong? for a asian gold farmer yes, for everyone else it means direct player input into prices of gold per cash shop currency and profits heading the right way).
People that bitch about P2W in this game are the ones that feel there should be no legal bypass for the grind they may have to do forgetting that a majority of people that have cheated in the past (via buying gold, powerleveling, etc) never get caught and thus end up taking a hefty chunk of the profits from developers and give them to either 3rd parties or friends (if you believe otherwise I will say just this much: you only get caught if you're stupid). Is it wrong from the developers to want their money back but also not turn the game into a P2W travesty? (which I will repeat again: this game is not, you can earn everything in game with time in dedication it is just your choice if you spend that time or spend a fraction of the same time earning the money to just pay it) No.
The one thing I will say though that the detractors are right about is that XL moved Archeage slightly off course from the sandbox area towards the themepark one but the likelihood is they won't maintain that course after they see which parts of the game draw people to it and keep them there.
Its funny how you reply to someone agreeying with you but wont bother going against any of my arguments because you know very well that you cant break any of em. Here is how you sound like.
Governments should legalize drugs because they are losing a lot of tax money because its being sold under the table, further more, why blame the gov for wanting to make more money from what is being sold on their ground.... Like really are you serious bro, is this really your logic here?
Now, maybe you are used to get into games that are on the fence to be p2w or simply used to enjoy free to play games because your broke idk... Personnaly, i played every single big title that came these past many years and ive never been so disgusted by a cash shop, not because i have never seen a game with a more p2w elements but because AA is an open world sandbox and IT DOES NOT FIT INTO IT. Saying something is allright because every other game does it is just stupid wrong and besides its completely false, most game are far from that, especially at release and they are just themeparks.
Like i said many times and i will repeat since you apparently cant read properly. I DO NOT care for how much an mmo can cost me, i just dont want to be reminded constantly that i need to pour more money into it for every single aspect in a game... Oh damn cant craft today, need to put more money in...wtf...REALLY?
All of you defending the game being themepark only for the first 30 level but its a whole bunch of bs.... You can go on your own at any point but chances are that you will finish that quest line up to 50 anyway. Why? At 50 you cant do a lot of things without running out of lp anyway and the other features, as much as i enjoyed them, gets old. Eventually you will need money or want to do something else than pvp all day.... Especialy since there is no incentive to pvp. Once your house is settle, that your guild castle is settle, that you sailed a bit and scuba dived, your left with very little but a need for some pve grinding or questing. Which btw is terrible in this game, pve is deadly boring along with the questing.
I got to 50, had multiple 50s, i was in alpha since day one. Seems like a lot of people talk a whole bunch of nonesense here.
You like the game, fine like i said but stop spreading false bs.
Thing is that labor regen for anyone, the way you spend it all or save it up is totaly your choice.
You can buy labor pots in the cash shop or buy them for some gold from the Auction !!! they are realy cheap !!!
You can buy a month subscription for gold !!!
You can craft the best gear / wear it / then sell it if you choose to as its not souldbound / Bind of equip !!!
You can join a family and farm for mats !!! spread the use of labor points !!!
Quest rewards with labor indentifiying is going to be gone in or before open beta !!!
There are tons of changes comming to Archeage to make it even better !!!
Many people seem to miss the point of playing this mmo together / be it with friends or with your guild and progress at alot faster rate.
They only see what they want to see or read false information and think there are no workarounds for specific things you can do.
There are so many ignorant post by people who have no clue how to play Archeage lol
Its a joke to read some of these posts over and over while the truth is totaly ignored and you can get away with almost anything if you stop playing this game SOLO.
its realy terrible to read trough the Archeage forums and read all that crap people do not understand or are not willing to understand
I didnt bother reading past missing the point playing an mmo together. You cant excuse poor game mechanics by saying you should and must play with others otherwise you are an idiot. No sir, you are.
If i have 3 account and you 1, chances are i will own you face with better gear/pots/food. Now place this in your ``guild``. Everyone in this guild has 3 account each and another guild has 1 account per member, who the***** you think will win. According these people spend as much time as the other in game, use the same strats and are same lvl minded.
If you give the benefit of the doubt to any guild, the guild that will spend the most money in the game will win. Especialy when you will need to bid on the right to invade a castle during siege time... Who do you think will win these bids uh? The poor guild people, or the rich kids? Who do you think will own castles uh?
Oh boy you dont know very much about this game uhm.
I play mostly pvp games and even i found the crafting mechanics to be restricting and the pve deadly boring... This game wont make much noise in the west and if it does, it wont be for the right reasons. It wont last.
Yes it is completely up to you to save your LP or not and that causes another problem. Some days i am pretty busy irl with work and so on, i just cant log in just to avoid reaching 5k lp and letting all further lp go to waste. Not only that but you need to log in every so often to take care of plants and so on, spend your lp to avoid reaching limits on your busy day. Why avoid reaching limits and wasting lp? On off days when you have planty of time to play, you will lack lp but when you are busy irl, you will have too much of it that it will go to waste and basically your losing precious ``time in game`` that you will never get back.
Are you realy that daft to see the big picture ?
Play how you want to play be it freelloader or patron or patron with 15 accounts.
I dont care and i travel with my guild that has been in all the great mmo that offer competitive pvp in both sandbox and themepark.
We do stuff together as a community, in Eve we live in a Wormhole in Archeage we are going north and claim land.
We have dedicated crafters who we send mats to, so we are all getting geared up to the teeth in the best posible gear as all crafted gear IS NOT SOULBOUND AND CAN BE TRADED TO YOUR FRIENDS WITHOUT YOU EVER HAVING TO CRAFT A SINGLE GEAR PIECE <------------Can you read that <------------ Sir look again <---------- Now read it again <-----------Just to make sure incase you missed it------> Dedicated Crafters <------ Crafting all our gear <------ Crafted gear is not SOULBOUND <-------
We use our labor (both patrons and non patrons to devide the labor limitations by working out the most efficient way to get every single thing as fast as posible for everyone involved.
What you gonne do with your 5 accounts again sir whine alot ?
Melt my face ? me a poor patron with 5k labor limit ?
Ah thats right even our freeloaders are geared by the time you guys have crafting on a good skill.
Oh and uhm incase you missed it Sieges are capped with 100/100 sir so bring it on m8.
This is why Archeage is so damn epic
No, an entire guild will own your face. Mix an hardcore dedicated guild that is also pay to win and you ve got a real problem right ahead. Problem being? AA being half of a sanbox with open world is amazing but most people wont enjoy being camped at their house by an entire p2w guild of which they have no chance to beat even if they bring every single good soul willing to help within the area.
Im a pvp guy at heart and i was there in many region fights, defending lowbies and all. I went against an entire guild at some point and it was admitedly fun, the challenge of finding a way to kill them one by one was amazing. But then it was easy to guess that if i were to be p2w and decent at pvp, i could easily take on greater challenge and believe me or not, your guild wouldnt save your smart ass.
You are mistaking whining and just being real. The game has some solid features but soo much bad things about.
just by the way you are writting i can tell you are very young and delusionnal. You dont think with your head or have any objectivity. Your just amazed by all the things you need to explore and learn in the game, you havent reached 50 yet, pretty sure.
I am just gonna ask an idiotic question now: How can you, a solo player, P2W? There's nothing in the game to allow you to have an edge... Hell with all the moronic things you said you missed one small fact: LP pots being around means that not only the super hardcore guilds can "P2W" but any guild, what does this mean pray tell? That BiS items will become common? And then how do you pay to win as a guild? Oh you can't big freaking whoop di do. I can always tell someone's full of shit when they start calling others young and delusional (may want to check your spelling on that word).
You dont seem to grasp what i am saying here and i am done trying. The problem is that you treat this game as any other game out there, like any other themepark. The reason why most people will play gw2 for exemple, story, lore, questing, pve, pvp and so on. Now all of these points are so weak in AA, people want this game for its open world, sandboxy elements, crafting and pvp. An open sandboxy world with pvp must have a good economy and you cant have the same type of cash shop as a themepark, pure and simple. In gw2 if a guild buy all the crafting mats off the broker, it will bother people but wont stop their progression. In AA it would be a disaster, really... Anyone can buy stuff from the cash shop and sell it for gold. They are in fact their own gold sellers in their open world pvp game...
Yes by the way i do consider a game that has mechanics forcing you to buy or use multiple account to gain advantage or keep up in player vs player to be pay to win... Straight up. Even if creating 10 acc is free, its annoying as f*** and they will still milk you on every one of them to allow you to use the broker and have more inventory so its not a solution to me. You shouldnt need more than one account to be competitve, your just stupid too.
Way way way to much baggage for me to even give care about this game. While I would like a working in game economy, I care not for the out of game economy , ie. My real money, to have all these complexities attached. I have nothing more to add here, but I would like to mention Archeage will not be using up any space on my hard drive. So why even bother mentioning all this? I just want any devs reading to know if you make the cash shops too complex, I will simply not consider the game.
"Yes by the way i do consider a game that has mechanics forcing you to buy or use multiple account to gain advantage or keep up in player vs player to be pay to win... Straight up"
In any mmo that I know of, you can have multiple accounts. These "extra" accounts will give you an advantage, in whatever way. Thus, all mmos are P2W.
AA does not "force you to buy or use multiple accounts to gain advantage or keep up", players who have the multiple accounts do.
"Yes by the way i do consider a game that has mechanics forcing you to buy or use multiple account to gain advantage or keep up in player vs player to be pay to win... Straight up"
In any mmo that I know of, you can have multiple accounts. These "extra" accounts will give you an advantage, in whatever way. Thus, all mmos are P2W.
AA does not "force you to buy or use multiple accounts to gain advantage or keep up", players who have the multiple accounts do.
Really? Are you even serious here? Damn.
Then you only know free to play and cash grab games idk... Eso, wildstar, ff14, aion(at release) and so many more gain absolutely nothing from having multiple account. The most you will get out of it will be more bank space, maybe more space to sell items on the broker and thats really it, there is no real effect on the gameplay or on the economy.
ArcheAge on the other hand, having one account not only limits gameplay wise but directly affect the economy greatly. 1 guy with one account sub = ? LP vs 1 guy with 3 account sub = ?Lp x 3... So he can produce, farm, craft, open coin purse 3 times more than you on a daily basis. Do that just for one week and the guy multi boxing or just with multiple account will out gear you greatly in pvp.... Along with affecting the economy greatly and getting much more gold then you... Now if your fine with that, good for you, i am not, just stop trying to find excusss to some very simple things.
Yeah you can always say gear doesnt make skills, just like numbers doesnt matter but this is not freaking guild wars 2 with its horizontal progression, its an open world pvp sandbox....
Originally posted by vidiotking"Yes by the way i do consider a game that has mechanics forcing you to buy or use multiple account to gain advantage or keep up in player vs player to be pay to win... Straight up"In any mmo that I know of, you can have multiple accounts. These "extra" accounts will give you an advantage, in whatever way. Thus, all mmos are P2W.AA does not "force you to buy or use multiple accounts to gain advantage or keep up", players who have the multiple accounts do.
Really? Are you even serious here? Damn.Then you only know free to play and cash grab games idk... Eso, wildstar, ff14, aion(at release) and so many more gain absolutely nothing from having multiple account. The most you will get out of it will be more bank space, maybe more space to sell items on the broker and thats really it, there is no real effect on the gameplay or on the economy.ArcheAge on the other hand, having one account not only limits gameplay wise but directly affect the economy greatly. 1 guy with one account sub = ? LP vs 1 guy with 3 account sub = ?Lp x 3... So he can produce, farm, craft, open coin purse 3 times more than you on a daily basis. Do that just for one week and the guy multi boxing or just with multiple account will out gear you greatly in pvp.... Along with affecting the economy greatly and getting much more gold then you... Now if your fine with that, good for you, i am not, just stop trying to find excusss to some very simple things.Yeah you can always say gear doesnt make skills, just like numbers doesnt matter but this is not freaking guild wars 2 with its horizontal progression, its an open world pvp sandbox.... Eh whatever, stupids be stupid.
It all balances out in the end. You may get your stuff first, but it doesn't stop the next guy from getting it too. You talk like the guy who gets it first will be the only one who gets it. Everyone will get it, in due time. Some people just can't be bothered with the time aspect of it and use every means necessary to get them to it as fast as possible. Call that P2W if you want, I call it Pay To Become Bored First.
Who gives a $%&%^&*$* if someone pays a sub and spends money in a cash shop too? This is what it all boils down to for me.
I don't give a flying fuck if someone wants to spend more cash to get to where I will be quicker ffs grow up.
WhatI I detest if fucking retards that go to a F2P option game and whine and fucking moan they can't get what a sub paying player gets
My feelings exactly.
Whether its spending money in the cash shop or having more free time....there is always a bigger fish in the pond. Not everyone is or should be equal in mmorpgs and im fine with that.
Enjoy the game or dont.
Even without a cash shop, most of the people railing on the game would never be on par with the top players anyway...
In all honesty most people railing against the game sound like people who've never worked for a living and forget that time, any time, can have monetary value ergo it is up to you if you think your time is well spent with or without a sub and with or without cash shop items... it goes to your definition of fun basically and if you have enough free time and ambition to make your goals happen in a game which allows it of you or if you feel you would get a better deal from paying a little extra to boost your way there. Is this wrong? I'd say no because games like WoW, EQ 1, etc never gave you a choice it was either grind or be left behind and AA gives you the option, however grindtastic it may end up being (hinges mostly on players not the devs as they will be the ones trading cash shop currency for gold), to play utterly free and get absolutely everything in-game (from patron to whatever CS items there are, legalized RMT will mean there will always be people selling cash shop currency, years after being put in the dilithium exchange still has quite decent offers, is this wrong? for a asian gold farmer yes, for everyone else it means direct player input into prices of gold per cash shop currency and profits heading the right way).
People that bitch about P2W in this game are the ones that feel there should be no legal bypass for the grind they may have to do forgetting that a majority of people that have cheated in the past (via buying gold, powerleveling, etc) never get caught and thus end up taking a hefty chunk of the profits from developers and give them to either 3rd parties or friends (if you believe otherwise I will say just this much: you only get caught if you're stupid). Is it wrong from the developers to want their money back but also not turn the game into a P2W travesty? (which I will repeat again: this game is not, you can earn everything in game with time in dedication it is just your choice if you spend that time or spend a fraction of the same time earning the money to just pay it) No.
The one thing I will say though that the detractors are right about is that XL moved Archeage slightly off course from the sandbox area towards the themepark one but the likelihood is they won't maintain that course after they see which parts of the game draw people to it and keep them there.
Its funny how you reply to someone agreeying with you but wont bother going against any of my arguments because you know very well that you cant break any of em. Here is how you sound like.
Governments should legalize drugs because they are losing a lot of tax money because its being sold under the table, further more, why blame the gov for wanting to make more money from what is being sold on their ground.... Like really are you serious bro, is this really your logic here?
Now, maybe you are used to get into games that are on the fence to be p2w or simply used to enjoy free to play games because your broke idk... Personnaly, i played every single big title that came these past many years and ive never been so disgusted by a cash shop, not because i have never seen a game with a more p2w elements but because AA is an open world sandbox and IT DOES NOT FIT INTO IT. Saying something is allright because every other game does it is just stupid wrong and besides its completely false, most game are far from that, especially at release and they are just themeparks.
Like i said many times and i will repeat since you apparently cant read properly. I DO NOT care for how much an mmo can cost me, i just dont want to be reminded constantly that i need to pour more money into it for every single aspect in a game... Oh damn cant craft today, need to put more money in...wtf...REALLY?
All of you defending the game being themepark only for the first 30 level but its a whole bunch of bs.... You can go on your own at any point but chances are that you will finish that quest line up to 50 anyway. Why? At 50 you cant do a lot of things without running out of lp anyway and the other features, as much as i enjoyed them, gets old. Eventually you will need money or want to do something else than pvp all day.... Especialy since there is no incentive to pvp. Once your house is settle, that your guild castle is settle, that you sailed a bit and scuba dived, your left with very little but a need for some pve grinding or questing. Which btw is terrible in this game, pve is deadly boring along with the questing.
I got to 50, had multiple 50s, i was in alpha since day one. Seems like a lot of people talk a whole bunch of nonesense here.
You like the game, fine like i said but stop spreading false bs.
Thing is that labor regen for anyone, the way you spend it all or save it up is totaly your choice.
You can buy labor pots in the cash shop or buy them for some gold from the Auction !!! they are realy cheap !!!
You can buy a month subscription for gold !!!
You can craft the best gear / wear it / then sell it if you choose to as its not souldbound / Bind of equip !!!
You can join a family and farm for mats !!! spread the use of labor points !!!
Quest rewards with labor indentifiying is going to be gone in or before open beta !!!
There are tons of changes comming to Archeage to make it even better !!!
Many people seem to miss the point of playing this mmo together / be it with friends or with your guild and progress at alot faster rate.
They only see what they want to see or read false information and think there are no workarounds for specific things you can do.
There are so many ignorant post by people who have no clue how to play Archeage lol
Its a joke to read some of these posts over and over while the truth is totaly ignored and you can get away with almost anything if you stop playing this game SOLO.
its realy terrible to read trough the Archeage forums and read all that crap people do not understand or are not willing to understand
I didnt bother reading past missing the point playing an mmo together. You cant excuse poor game mechanics by saying you should and must play with others otherwise you are an idiot. No sir, you are.
If i have 3 account and you 1, chances are i will own you face with better gear/pots/food. Now place this in your ``guild``. Everyone in this guild has 3 account each and another guild has 1 account per member, who the***** you think will win. According these people spend as much time as the other in game, use the same strats and are same lvl minded.
If you give the benefit of the doubt to any guild, the guild that will spend the most money in the game will win. Especialy when you will need to bid on the right to invade a castle during siege time... Who do you think will win these bids uh? The poor guild people, or the rich kids? Who do you think will own castles uh?
Oh boy you dont know very much about this game uhm.
I play mostly pvp games and even i found the crafting mechanics to be restricting and the pve deadly boring... This game wont make much noise in the west and if it does, it wont be for the right reasons. It wont last.
Yes it is completely up to you to save your LP or not and that causes another problem. Some days i am pretty busy irl with work and so on, i just cant log in just to avoid reaching 5k lp and letting all further lp go to waste. Not only that but you need to log in every so often to take care of plants and so on, spend your lp to avoid reaching limits on your busy day. Why avoid reaching limits and wasting lp? On off days when you have planty of time to play, you will lack lp but when you are busy irl, you will have too much of it that it will go to waste and basically your losing precious ``time in game`` that you will never get back.
Are you realy that daft to see the big picture ?
Play how you want to play be it freelloader or patron or patron with 15 accounts.
I dont care and i travel with my guild that has been in all the great mmo that offer competitive pvp in both sandbox and themepark.
We do stuff together as a community, in Eve we live in a Wormhole in Archeage we are going north and claim land.
We have dedicated crafters who we send mats to, so we are all getting geared up to the teeth in the best posible gear as all crafted gear IS NOT SOULBOUND AND CAN BE TRADED TO YOUR FRIENDS WITHOUT YOU EVER HAVING TO CRAFT A SINGLE GEAR PIECE <------------Can you read that <------------ Sir look again <---------- Now read it again <-----------Just to make sure incase you missed it------> Dedicated Crafters <------ Crafting all our gear <------ Crafted gear is not SOULBOUND <-------
We use our labor (both patrons and non patrons to devide the labor limitations by working out the most efficient way to get every single thing as fast as posible for everyone involved.
What you gonne do with your 5 accounts again sir whine alot ?
Melt my face ? me a poor patron with 5k labor limit ?
Ah thats right even our freeloaders are geared by the time you guys have crafting on a good skill.
Oh and uhm incase you missed it Sieges are capped with 100/100 sir so bring it on m8.
This is why Archeage is so damn epic
No, an entire guild will own your face. Mix an hardcore dedicated guild that is also pay to win and you ve got a real problem right ahead. Problem being? AA being half of a sanbox with open world is amazing but most people wont enjoy being camped at their house by an entire p2w guild of which they have no chance to beat even if they bring every single good soul willing to help within the area.
Im a pvp guy at heart and i was there in many region fights, defending lowbies and all. I went against an entire guild at some point and it was admitedly fun, the challenge of finding a way to kill them one by one was amazing. But then it was easy to guess that if i were to be p2w and decent at pvp, i could easily take on greater challenge and believe me or not, your guild wouldnt save your smart ass.
You are mistaking whining and just being real. The game has some solid features but soo much bad things about.
just by the way you are writting i can tell you are very young and delusionnal. You dont think with your head or have any objectivity. Your just amazed by all the things you need to explore and learn in the game, you havent reached 50 yet, pretty sure.
I am just gonna ask an idiotic question now: How can you, a solo player, P2W? There's nothing in the game to allow you to have an edge... Hell with all the moronic things you said you missed one small fact: LP pots being around means that not only the super hardcore guilds can "P2W" but any guild, what does this mean pray tell? That BiS items will become common? And then how do you pay to win as a guild? Oh you can't big freaking whoop di do. I can always tell someone's full of shit when they start calling others young and delusional (may want to check your spelling on that word).
You dont seem to grasp what i am saying here and i am done trying. The problem is that you treat this game as any other game out there, like any other themepark. The reason why most people will play gw2 for exemple, story, lore, questing, pve, pvp and so on. Now all of these points are so weak in AA, people want this game for its open world, sandboxy elements, crafting and pvp. An open sandboxy world with pvp must have a good economy and you cant have the same type of cash shop as a themepark, pure and simple. In gw2 if a guild buy all the crafting mats off the broker, it will bother people but wont stop their progression. In AA it would be a disaster, really... Anyone can buy stuff from the cash shop and sell it for gold. They are in fact their own gold sellers in their open world pvp game...
Yes by the way i do consider a game that has mechanics forcing you to buy or use multiple account to gain advantage or keep up in player vs player to be pay to win... Straight up. Even if creating 10 acc is free, its annoying as f*** and they will still milk you on every one of them to allow you to use the broker and have more inventory so its not a solution to me. You shouldnt need more than one account to be competitve, your just stupid too.
Your first paragraph: Who gets the gold you buy? To buy APEX gold is required and it is a dynamic thing, same for AH CS items, too much supply too little demand it jumps one way, too much demand not enough supply it jumps the other way. You keep trying to say the cash shop is pay to win when, again, it isn't simply because it is a closed system, gold is not created out of thin air when you sell things and the game has plenty of gold sinks by what I heard. I'd say your problem in the end is you've not seen a system similar to this one at work in the past while I have and it is P2W only if it offers an otherwise impossible to acquired advantage (buying gold is not an advantage, having more LP is not an advantage, these things are tools and having more leeway means you can be more ambitious more aggressive but to say it offers a individual or a guild any tangible real world advantage is... patently false).
Your second paragraph: So every MMO that has ever existed from the vaunted likes of EQ1, SWG, WoW, UO, etc to newer ones like SWtOR are P2W, right? I mean any game would be far easier with multiple accounts (in SWG you could self supply and thus have much more leeway as a crafter to undercut adversaries, in UO it meant anything from combat support (if you were really good at multitasking) to the same crafter issue as SWG,etc).
Also next time you call someone stupid you may want to check your grammar.
Who gives a $%&%^&*$* if someone pays a sub and spends money in a cash shop too? This is what it all boils down to for me.
I don't give a flying fuck if someone wants to spend more cash to get to where I will be quicker ffs grow up.
WhatI I detest if fucking retards that go to a F2P option game and whine and fucking moan they can't get what a sub paying player gets
My feelings exactly.
Whether its spending money in the cash shop or having more free time....there is always a bigger fish in the pond. Not everyone is or should be equal in mmorpgs and im fine with that.
Enjoy the game or dont.
Even without a cash shop, most of the people railing on the game would never be on par with the top players anyway...
In all honesty most people railing against the game sound like people who've never worked for a living and forget that time, any time, can have monetary value ergo it is up to you if you think your time is well spent with or without a sub and with or without cash shop items... it goes to your definition of fun basically and if you have enough free time and ambition to make your goals happen in a game which allows it of you or if you feel you would get a better deal from paying a little extra to boost your way there. Is this wrong? I'd say no because games like WoW, EQ 1, etc never gave you a choice it was either grind or be left behind and AA gives you the option, however grindtastic it may end up being (hinges mostly on players not the devs as they will be the ones trading cash shop currency for gold), to play utterly free and get absolutely everything in-game (from patron to whatever CS items there are, legalized RMT will mean there will always be people selling cash shop currency, years after being put in the dilithium exchange still has quite decent offers, is this wrong? for a asian gold farmer yes, for everyone else it means direct player input into prices of gold per cash shop currency and profits heading the right way).
People that bitch about P2W in this game are the ones that feel there should be no legal bypass for the grind they may have to do forgetting that a majority of people that have cheated in the past (via buying gold, powerleveling, etc) never get caught and thus end up taking a hefty chunk of the profits from developers and give them to either 3rd parties or friends (if you believe otherwise I will say just this much: you only get caught if you're stupid). Is it wrong from the developers to want their money back but also not turn the game into a P2W travesty? (which I will repeat again: this game is not, you can earn everything in game with time in dedication it is just your choice if you spend that time or spend a fraction of the same time earning the money to just pay it) No.
The one thing I will say though that the detractors are right about is that XL moved Archeage slightly off course from the sandbox area towards the themepark one but the likelihood is they won't maintain that course after they see which parts of the game draw people to it and keep them there.
Its funny how you reply to someone agreeying with you but wont bother going against any of my arguments because you know very well that you cant break any of em. Here is how you sound like.
Governments should legalize drugs because they are losing a lot of tax money because its being sold under the table, further more, why blame the gov for wanting to make more money from what is being sold on their ground.... Like really are you serious bro, is this really your logic here?
Now, maybe you are used to get into games that are on the fence to be p2w or simply used to enjoy free to play games because your broke idk... Personnaly, i played every single big title that came these past many years and ive never been so disgusted by a cash shop, not because i have never seen a game with a more p2w elements but because AA is an open world sandbox and IT DOES NOT FIT INTO IT. Saying something is allright because every other game does it is just stupid wrong and besides its completely false, most game are far from that, especially at release and they are just themeparks.
Like i said many times and i will repeat since you apparently cant read properly. I DO NOT care for how much an mmo can cost me, i just dont want to be reminded constantly that i need to pour more money into it for every single aspect in a game... Oh damn cant craft today, need to put more money in...wtf...REALLY?
All of you defending the game being themepark only for the first 30 level but its a whole bunch of bs.... You can go on your own at any point but chances are that you will finish that quest line up to 50 anyway. Why? At 50 you cant do a lot of things without running out of lp anyway and the other features, as much as i enjoyed them, gets old. Eventually you will need money or want to do something else than pvp all day.... Especialy since there is no incentive to pvp. Once your house is settle, that your guild castle is settle, that you sailed a bit and scuba dived, your left with very little but a need for some pve grinding or questing. Which btw is terrible in this game, pve is deadly boring along with the questing.
I got to 50, had multiple 50s, i was in alpha since day one. Seems like a lot of people talk a whole bunch of nonesense here.
You like the game, fine like i said but stop spreading false bs.
Thing is that labor regen for anyone, the way you spend it all or save it up is totaly your choice.
You can buy labor pots in the cash shop or buy them for some gold from the Auction !!! they are realy cheap !!!
You can buy a month subscription for gold !!!
You can craft the best gear / wear it / then sell it if you choose to as its not souldbound / Bind of equip !!!
You can join a family and farm for mats !!! spread the use of labor points !!!
Quest rewards with labor indentifiying is going to be gone in or before open beta !!!
There are tons of changes comming to Archeage to make it even better !!!
Many people seem to miss the point of playing this mmo together / be it with friends or with your guild and progress at alot faster rate.
They only see what they want to see or read false information and think there are no workarounds for specific things you can do.
There are so many ignorant post by people who have no clue how to play Archeage lol
Its a joke to read some of these posts over and over while the truth is totaly ignored and you can get away with almost anything if you stop playing this game SOLO.
its realy terrible to read trough the Archeage forums and read all that crap people do not understand or are not willing to understand
I didnt bother reading past missing the point playing an mmo together. You cant excuse poor game mechanics by saying you should and must play with others otherwise you are an idiot. No sir, you are.
If i have 3 account and you 1, chances are i will own you face with better gear/pots/food. Now place this in your ``guild``. Everyone in this guild has 3 account each and another guild has 1 account per member, who the***** you think will win. According these people spend as much time as the other in game, use the same strats and are same lvl minded.
If you give the benefit of the doubt to any guild, the guild that will spend the most money in the game will win. Especialy when you will need to bid on the right to invade a castle during siege time... Who do you think will win these bids uh? The poor guild people, or the rich kids? Who do you think will own castles uh?
Oh boy you dont know very much about this game uhm.
I play mostly pvp games and even i found the crafting mechanics to be restricting and the pve deadly boring... This game wont make much noise in the west and if it does, it wont be for the right reasons. It wont last.
Yes it is completely up to you to save your LP or not and that causes another problem. Some days i am pretty busy irl with work and so on, i just cant log in just to avoid reaching 5k lp and letting all further lp go to waste. Not only that but you need to log in every so often to take care of plants and so on, spend your lp to avoid reaching limits on your busy day. Why avoid reaching limits and wasting lp? On off days when you have planty of time to play, you will lack lp but when you are busy irl, you will have too much of it that it will go to waste and basically your losing precious ``time in game`` that you will never get back.
Are you realy that daft to see the big picture ?
Play how you want to play be it freelloader or patron or patron with 15 accounts.
I dont care and i travel with my guild that has been in all the great mmo that offer competitive pvp in both sandbox and themepark.
We do stuff together as a community, in Eve we live in a Wormhole in Archeage we are going north and claim land.
We have dedicated crafters who we send mats to, so we are all getting geared up to the teeth in the best posible gear as all crafted gear IS NOT SOULBOUND AND CAN BE TRADED TO YOUR FRIENDS WITHOUT YOU EVER HAVING TO CRAFT A SINGLE GEAR PIECE <------------Can you read that <------------ Sir look again <---------- Now read it again <-----------Just to make sure incase you missed it------> Dedicated Crafters <------ Crafting all our gear <------ Crafted gear is not SOULBOUND <-------
We use our labor (both patrons and non patrons to devide the labor limitations by working out the most efficient way to get every single thing as fast as posible for everyone involved.
What you gonne do with your 5 accounts again sir whine alot ?
Melt my face ? me a poor patron with 5k labor limit ?
Ah thats right even our freeloaders are geared by the time you guys have crafting on a good skill.
Oh and uhm incase you missed it Sieges are capped with 100/100 sir so bring it on m8.
This is why Archeage is so damn epic
No, an entire guild will own your face. Mix an hardcore dedicated guild that is also pay to win and you ve got a real problem right ahead. Problem being? AA being half of a sanbox with open world is amazing but most people wont enjoy being camped at their house by an entire p2w guild of which they have no chance to beat even if they bring every single good soul willing to help within the area.
Im a pvp guy at heart and i was there in many region fights, defending lowbies and all. I went against an entire guild at some point and it was admitedly fun, the challenge of finding a way to kill them one by one was amazing. But then it was easy to guess that if i were to be p2w and decent at pvp, i could easily take on greater challenge and believe me or not, your guild wouldnt save your smart ass.
You are mistaking whining and just being real. The game has some solid features but soo much bad things about.
just by the way you are writting i can tell you are very young and delusionnal. You dont think with your head or have any objectivity. Your just amazed by all the things you need to explore and learn in the game, you havent reached 50 yet, pretty sure.
I am just gonna ask an idiotic question now: How can you, a solo player, P2W? There's nothing in the game to allow you to have an edge... Hell with all the moronic things you said you missed one small fact: LP pots being around means that not only the super hardcore guilds can "P2W" but any guild, what does this mean pray tell? That BiS items will become common? And then how do you pay to win as a guild? Oh you can't big freaking whoop di do. I can always tell someone's full of shit when they start calling others young and delusional (may want to check your spelling on that word).
You dont seem to grasp what i am saying here and i am done trying. The problem is that you treat this game as any other game out there, like any other themepark. The reason why most people will play gw2 for exemple, story, lore, questing, pve, pvp and so on. Now all of these points are so weak in AA, people want this game for its open world, sandboxy elements, crafting and pvp. An open sandboxy world with pvp must have a good economy and you cant have the same type of cash shop as a themepark, pure and simple. In gw2 if a guild buy all the crafting mats off the broker, it will bother people but wont stop their progression. In AA it would be a disaster, really... Anyone can buy stuff from the cash shop and sell it for gold. They are in fact their own gold sellers in their open world pvp game...
Yes by the way i do consider a game that has mechanics forcing you to buy or use multiple account to gain advantage or keep up in player vs player to be pay to win... Straight up. Even if creating 10 acc is free, its annoying as f*** and they will still milk you on every one of them to allow you to use the broker and have more inventory so its not a solution to me. You shouldnt need more than one account to be competitve, your just stupid too.
Your first paragraph: Who gets the gold you buy? To buy APEX gold is required and it is a dynamic thing, same for AH CS items, too much supply too little demand it jumps one way, too much demand not enough supply it jumps the other way. You keep trying to say the cash shop is pay to win when, again, it isn't simply because it is a closed system, gold is not created out of thin air when you sell things and the game has plenty of gold sinks by what I heard. I'd say your problem in the end is you've not seen a system similar to this one at work in the past while I have and it is P2W only if it offers an otherwise impossible to acquired advantage (buying gold is not an advantage, having more LP is not an advantage, these things are tools and having more leeway means you can be more ambitious more aggressive but to say it offers a individual or a guild any tangible real world advantage is... patently false).
Your second paragraph: So every MMO that has ever existed from the vaunted likes of EQ1, SWG, WoW, UO, etc to newer ones like SWtOR are P2W, right? I mean any game would be far easier with multiple accounts (in SWG you could self supply and thus have much more leeway as a crafter to undercut adversaries, in UO it meant anything from combat support (if you were really good at multitasking) to the same crafter issue as SWG,etc).
Also next time you call someone stupid you may want to check your grammar.
``gold is not created out of thin air when you sell things and the game has plenty of gold sinks by what I heard. ``
By what you heard... By what you heard..... BY what you HEARD.
Do i really need to explain as to why this sounds so wrong? So you are basing your entire argument on what you heard against someone thats been there, done it and experienced it from first hand and from day one of alpha thru multiple lvl 50.... Lets make something clear here, the game wasnt even released in beta that i had experience all there was to experience in this game, yup. And here you are, clueless, trying to talk about something you barely know.
I understand the supply and demand that is the basic of any economy in game or rl but you are way out. The final outcome of it all will be that the one who spend the most, for lp pots, for multiple accounts, for other perks, for buying gold via the broker will gain huge advantages. You are overlooking the fact that this has a huge snowball effect, p2w players will be the one creating most of the items in the game (craft/farm/mats) since their huge amount of LP from either pots or multiple accounts.
You compare old games that been out for a very long time and can allow themself to sell say, lvl faster like wow because its been out for freaking 10 years. Yet again i made my point about you silly heads trying to compare AA to any themeparks out there. YOU CANT COMPARE A THEMEPARK ECONOMY OR PAYMENT MODEL TO A SANDPARK OR SANDBOX. Even if blizzard would sell totally op gear only purchasable thru cash shop, it would not affect the market as much as it would in AA and it would not stop anyones progression.
An op guy in wow will at best win what? battlegrounds? They wont invade your freaking farm and own your housing area just for the hell of it, stopping you from any further work until you get rid of em or they get bored.
Again if you like the kind of game that requires you to have multiple account in order to be competitive in pvp or in the game as a whole, go for it. Yes i consider any game that requires you to BUY or USE multiple account PAY TO WIN. It simple is.
Pay more, spend more in order to gain advantage on any other single account members... Hows that not simple in your head ? Of course its not like buying the most op gear and you one hit anyone else in the game but it is STILL and ADVANTAGE.
I dont know man, i got a life going on, i dont have time to care for managing tons of accounts or spending thousands of dollars on a freaking game and i think MOST NORMAL people will agree with this.
Who gives a $%&%^&*$* if someone pays a sub and spends money in a cash shop too? This is what it all boils down to for me.
I don't give a flying fuck if someone wants to spend more cash to get to where I will be quicker ffs grow up.
WhatI I detest if fucking retards that go to a F2P option game and whine and fucking moan they can't get what a sub paying player gets
This is awesome
+10
Yeah that look badass, sure freeloaders never really cares because they cant complain, you get sh1t for free. The same kids that goes from one game to another without really wondering as to why each of these games fail or even questioning the way they are built.
If only he had read that i paid my way to beta and pay multiple sub to few other games. Money isnt the issue.
Them kids. So much attitude, very little knowledge.
"Yes by the way i do consider a game that has mechanics forcing you to buy or use multiple account to gain advantage or keep up in player vs player to be pay to win... Straight up"
In any mmo that I know of, you can have multiple accounts. These "extra" accounts will give you an advantage, in whatever way. Thus, all mmos are P2W.
AA does not "force you to buy or use multiple accounts to gain advantage or keep up", players who have the multiple accounts do.
Really? Are you even serious here? Damn.
Then you only know free to play and cash grab games idk... Eso, wildstar, ff14, aion(at release) and so many more gain absolutely nothing from having multiple account. The most you will get out of it will be more bank space, maybe more space to sell items on the broker and thats really it, there is no real effect on the gameplay or on the economy.
ArcheAge on the other hand, having one account not only limits gameplay wise but directly affect the economy greatly. 1 guy with one account sub = ? LP vs 1 guy with 3 account sub = ?Lp x 3... So he can produce, farm, craft, open coin purse 3 times more than you on a daily basis. Do that just for one week and the guy multi boxing or just with multiple account will out gear you greatly in pvp.... Along with affecting the economy greatly and getting much more gold then you... Now if your fine with that, good for you, i am not, just stop trying to find excusss to some very simple things.
Yeah you can always say gear doesnt make skills, just like numbers doesnt matter but this is not freaking guild wars 2 with its horizontal progression, its an open world pvp sandbox....
Eh whatever, stupids be stupid.
I had 2 accounts in SWG and it was a HUGE benefit to me, so our experiences are differenet. I almost doubled my income and had made almost 1 billion credits in 6 months. I could not have done that w/0 the second account. I needed the inventory and harvestors that the second account supplied. So, atleast in my case, that second account was P2W.
"Yes by the way i do consider a game that has mechanics forcing you to buy or use multiple account to gain advantage or keep up in player vs player to be pay to win... Straight up"
In any mmo that I know of, you can have multiple accounts. These "extra" accounts will give you an advantage, in whatever way. Thus, all mmos are P2W.
AA does not "force you to buy or use multiple accounts to gain advantage or keep up", players who have the multiple accounts do.
Really? Are you even serious here? Damn.
Then you only know free to play and cash grab games idk... Eso, wildstar, ff14, aion(at release) and so many more gain absolutely nothing from having multiple account. The most you will get out of it will be more bank space, maybe more space to sell items on the broker and thats really it, there is no real effect on the gameplay or on the economy.
ArcheAge on the other hand, having one account not only limits gameplay wise but directly affect the economy greatly. 1 guy with one account sub = ? LP vs 1 guy with 3 account sub = ?Lp x 3... So he can produce, farm, craft, open coin purse 3 times more than you on a daily basis. Do that just for one week and the guy multi boxing or just with multiple account will out gear you greatly in pvp.... Along with affecting the economy greatly and getting much more gold then you... Now if your fine with that, good for you, i am not, just stop trying to find excusss to some very simple things.
Yeah you can always say gear doesnt make skills, just like numbers doesnt matter but this is not freaking guild wars 2 with its horizontal progression, its an open world pvp sandbox....
Eh whatever, stupids be stupid.
I had 2 accounts in SWG and it was a HUGE benefit to me, so our experiences are differenet. I almost doubled my income and had made almost 1 billion credits in 6 months. I could not have done that w/0 the second account. I needed the inventory and harvestors that the second account supplied. So, atleast in my case, that second account was P2W.
Likewise. In pre-NGE SWG, I had a Master Chef on my main account and a Bio-Eng on a second account to supply him. Massive profitz were made. The additional property slots were extremely handy as well, seeing as I needed at least 6 factories constantly running.
In EVE the advantages of 2 or more accounts are well known. I had 2 subs running in EVE for about 4 years...
It really depends on the design of the game. Many of the limitations and game mechanics that made multi-accounts useful in past games are not found in modern games. The trend is toward megaserver, one-character-does-everything types of design. In many ways, AA is old school.
"Yes by the way i do consider a game that has mechanics forcing you to buy or use multiple account to gain advantage or keep up in player vs player to be pay to win... Straight up"
In any mmo that I know of, you can have multiple accounts. These "extra" accounts will give you an advantage, in whatever way. Thus, all mmos are P2W.
AA does not "force you to buy or use multiple accounts to gain advantage or keep up", players who have the multiple accounts do.
Really? Are you even serious here? Damn.
Then you only know free to play and cash grab games idk... Eso, wildstar, ff14, aion(at release) and so many more gain absolutely nothing from having multiple account. The most you will get out of it will be more bank space, maybe more space to sell items on the broker and thats really it, there is no real effect on the gameplay or on the economy.
ArcheAge on the other hand, having one account not only limits gameplay wise but directly affect the economy greatly. 1 guy with one account sub = ? LP vs 1 guy with 3 account sub = ?Lp x 3... So he can produce, farm, craft, open coin purse 3 times more than you on a daily basis. Do that just for one week and the guy multi boxing or just with multiple account will out gear you greatly in pvp.... Along with affecting the economy greatly and getting much more gold then you... Now if your fine with that, good for you, i am not, just stop trying to find excusss to some very simple things.
Yeah you can always say gear doesnt make skills, just like numbers doesnt matter but this is not freaking guild wars 2 with its horizontal progression, its an open world pvp sandbox....
Eh whatever, stupids be stupid.
I had 2 accounts in SWG and it was a HUGE benefit to me, so our experiences are differenet. I almost doubled my income and had made almost 1 billion credits in 6 months. I could not have done that w/0 the second account. I needed the inventory and harvestors that the second account supplied. So, atleast in my case, that second account was P2W.
Likewise. In pre-NGE SWG, I had a Master Chef on my main account and a Bio-Eng on a second account to supply him. Massive profitz were made. The additional property slots were extremely handy as well, seeing as I needed at least 6 factories constantly running.
In EVE the advantages of 2 or more accounts are well known. I had 2 subs running in EVE for about 4 years...
It really depends on the design of the game. Many of the limitations and game mechanics that made multi-accounts useful in past games are not found in modern games. The trend is toward megaserver, one-character-does-everything types of design. In many ways, AA is old school.
I understand that a lot of people come from different mmos/background from all ages and therefore will find a cash shop or game mechanics more or less P2W depending on their own way to look at things, the way they like to play their games, time invested and all that.
But you must admit that, as soon as someone gain advantage over someone else by buying more account or injecting money into the game, its sort of Pay to Win. If you forget all you know about games and just read the sentence.
I have purchased many Labor Pots that i will resell in the broker for gold, which i will use to purchase or make top tier gear in the game while everyone else struggling to make lvl 40s crafted. Then i will go pvp.
Like i said, if you like hoping thru multiple account and paying more here and there for a GAME.... Go for it.
I like P2P game where they get my 15 bucks a months and leave me alone, they dont try to milk you every second you spend in the game at least.
"Yes by the way i do consider a game that has mechanics forcing you to buy or use multiple account to gain advantage or keep up in player vs player to be pay to win... Straight up"
In any mmo that I know of, you can have multiple accounts. These "extra" accounts will give you an advantage, in whatever way. Thus, all mmos are P2W.
AA does not "force you to buy or use multiple accounts to gain advantage or keep up", players who have the multiple accounts do.
Really? Are you even serious here? Damn.
Then you only know free to play and cash grab games idk... Eso, wildstar, ff14, aion(at release) and so many more gain absolutely nothing from having multiple account. The most you will get out of it will be more bank space, maybe more space to sell items on the broker and thats really it, there is no real effect on the gameplay or on the economy.
ArcheAge on the other hand, having one account not only limits gameplay wise but directly affect the economy greatly. 1 guy with one account sub = ? LP vs 1 guy with 3 account sub = ?Lp x 3... So he can produce, farm, craft, open coin purse 3 times more than you on a daily basis. Do that just for one week and the guy multi boxing or just with multiple account will out gear you greatly in pvp.... Along with affecting the economy greatly and getting much more gold then you... Now if your fine with that, good for you, i am not, just stop trying to find excusss to some very simple things.
Yeah you can always say gear doesnt make skills, just like numbers doesnt matter but this is not freaking guild wars 2 with its horizontal progression, its an open world pvp sandbox....
Eh whatever, stupids be stupid.
I had 2 accounts in SWG and it was a HUGE benefit to me, so our experiences are differenet. I almost doubled my income and had made almost 1 billion credits in 6 months. I could not have done that w/0 the second account. I needed the inventory and harvestors that the second account supplied. So, atleast in my case, that second account was P2W.
Likewise. In pre-NGE SWG, I had a Master Chef on my main account and a Bio-Eng on a second account to supply him. Massive profitz were made. The additional property slots were extremely handy as well, seeing as I needed at least 6 factories constantly running.
In EVE the advantages of 2 or more accounts are well known. I had 2 subs running in EVE for about 4 years...
It really depends on the design of the game. Many of the limitations and game mechanics that made multi-accounts useful in past games are not found in modern games. The trend is toward megaserver, one-character-does-everything types of design. In many ways, AA is old school.
I understand that a lot of people come from different mmos/background from all ages and therefore will find a cash shop or game mechanics more or less P2W depending on their own way to look at things, the way they like to play their games, time invested and all that.
But you must admit that, as soon as someone gain advantage over someone else by buying more account or injecting money into the game, its sort of Pay to Win. If you forget all you know about games and just read the sentence.
I have purchased many Labor Pots that i will resell in the broker for gold, which i will use to purchase or make top tier gear in the game while everyone else struggling to make lvl 40s crafted. Then i will go pvp.
Like i said, if you like hoping thru multiple account and paying more here and there for a GAME.... Go for it.
I like P2P game where they get my 15 bucks a months and leave me alone, they dont try to milk you every second you spend in the game at least.
I don't think anyone is saying it isn't (sort of) P2W to have 2 accounts, or to buy LP pots. What I'm saying is that they are both P2W. So ALL mmos are P2W in that sense.
Make no mistake about it, I too prefer a sub model w/ no microtransactions, but I like AA enough to overlook that one aspect of the game.
As another poster put it, the idea is quite simple to understand.
Why, as a gamer, should I pay for a game and subscription and still have all these other things I just might need to invest in as well? Why are there things in a game I paid for that cost something, but can be replenished through RMT's...i.e. cash shop?
And it's an epidemic in this game. Every concept added to this game can be traced back to it's cash shop, ESPECIALLY LP. Im tired of the arguments too that LP has no effect on Patrons. If it doesnt then why not remove it for Patrons? Why is it even there for paying customers.
When I purchase a game, I expect to have free reign of all it's contents, otherwise, I am being cheated. In AA, it's blatently obvious from the login that you DO NOT get what you have just paid for.
"Yes by the way i do consider a game that has mechanics forcing you to buy or use multiple account to gain advantage or keep up in player vs player to be pay to win... Straight up"
In any mmo that I know of, you can have multiple accounts. These "extra" accounts will give you an advantage, in whatever way. Thus, all mmos are P2W.
AA does not "force you to buy or use multiple accounts to gain advantage or keep up", players who have the multiple accounts do.
Really? Are you even serious here? Damn.
Then you only know free to play and cash grab games idk... Eso, wildstar, ff14, aion(at release) and so many more gain absolutely nothing from having multiple account. The most you will get out of it will be more bank space, maybe more space to sell items on the broker and thats really it, there is no real effect on the gameplay or on the economy.
ArcheAge on the other hand, having one account not only limits gameplay wise but directly affect the economy greatly. 1 guy with one account sub = ? LP vs 1 guy with 3 account sub = ?Lp x 3... So he can produce, farm, craft, open coin purse 3 times more than you on a daily basis. Do that just for one week and the guy multi boxing or just with multiple account will out gear you greatly in pvp.... Along with affecting the economy greatly and getting much more gold then you... Now if your fine with that, good for you, i am not, just stop trying to find excusss to some very simple things.
Yeah you can always say gear doesnt make skills, just like numbers doesnt matter but this is not freaking guild wars 2 with its horizontal progression, its an open world pvp sandbox....
Eh whatever, stupids be stupid.
I had 2 accounts in SWG and it was a HUGE benefit to me, so our experiences are differenet. I almost doubled my income and had made almost 1 billion credits in 6 months. I could not have done that w/0 the second account. I needed the inventory and harvestors that the second account supplied. So, atleast in my case, that second account was P2W.
Likewise. In pre-NGE SWG, I had a Master Chef on my main account and a Bio-Eng on a second account to supply him. Massive profitz were made. The additional property slots were extremely handy as well, seeing as I needed at least 6 factories constantly running.
In EVE the advantages of 2 or more accounts are well known. I had 2 subs running in EVE for about 4 years...
It really depends on the design of the game. Many of the limitations and game mechanics that made multi-accounts useful in past games are not found in modern games. The trend is toward megaserver, one-character-does-everything types of design. In many ways, AA is old school.
I understand that a lot of people come from different mmos/background from all ages and therefore will find a cash shop or game mechanics more or less P2W depending on their own way to look at things, the way they like to play their games, time invested and all that.
But you must admit that, as soon as someone gain advantage over someone else by buying more account or injecting money into the game, its sort of Pay to Win. If you forget all you know about games and just read the sentence.
I have purchased many Labor Pots that i will resell in the broker for gold, which i will use to purchase or make top tier gear in the game while everyone else struggling to make lvl 40s crafted. Then i will go pvp.
Like i said, if you like hoping thru multiple account and paying more here and there for a GAME.... Go for it.
I like P2P game where they get my 15 bucks a months and leave me alone, they dont try to milk you every second you spend in the game at least.
I don't think anyone is saying it isn't (sort of) P2W to have 2 accounts, or to buy LP pots. What I'm saying is that they are both P2W. So ALL mmos are P2W in that sense.
Make no mistake about it, I too prefer a sub model w/ no microtransactions, but I like AA enough to overlook that one aspect of the game.
And i am saying that it is very far from being all or even most mmos that benefit from multiple accounts. I played mostly mmos the past many years and i never played one that required me or gained any benefit from having multiple accounts. I am not a role player by any mean but i hate needing to creating multiple char or even multiple accounts. Besides, as soon as i smell money grab like i did with AA for exemple, i run off right away. In case of AA it just pissed me off because i waited for this game.
On the other hand, i am happy that you like the game enough to overlook its flaws, i hope it remains this way for months or years to come. I think we all want to find home in a good mmo, kinda hard.
There's no accounting for taste. It's no surprise I like AA as it reminds me of SWG.
I like a little PVP, but I really really like to craft. The crafting in AA is pretty kool, if you're into that sort of thing. SWG's crafting was far deeper imo. You could really customize your crafts, they were actually unique('esque) as you could use different quality mats to craft them. In AA not as much, although I'm not fully schooled on AA weapon/armor crafting.
Really, I'm a pve carebear/crafter at heart, so If AA had the pve of FF xiv and the rest of it was AA, I'd be a lot happier. But AA's cool.
Comments
I like the idea of LP if u don't move on to ur next game AA is not going to change for u.
Even simpler, life is short do things u like when at all possible.
True. I have no issues with the LP system.
Lets hope they change their monetization scheme.
Just seems over the top for me.
I do support games I enjoy playing.
http://www.entropiapartners.com/?r=22415
You heard it here: He wants P2W.
Here is a link that illustrates how having multiple accounts is less expensive and more efficient than "chugging" LP Pots.
It kind of, sort of, debunks the notion that AA is P2W, uless you consider having multiple accounts P2W, in which case ALL games are P2W.
http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?24767-The-labour-potion-problem.../page9
From yet another link.
You dont seem to grasp what i am saying here and i am done trying. The problem is that you treat this game as any other game out there, like any other themepark. The reason why most people will play gw2 for exemple, story, lore, questing, pve, pvp and so on. Now all of these points are so weak in AA, people want this game for its open world, sandboxy elements, crafting and pvp. An open sandboxy world with pvp must have a good economy and you cant have the same type of cash shop as a themepark, pure and simple. In gw2 if a guild buy all the crafting mats off the broker, it will bother people but wont stop their progression. In AA it would be a disaster, really... Anyone can buy stuff from the cash shop and sell it for gold. They are in fact their own gold sellers in their open world pvp game...
Yes by the way i do consider a game that has mechanics forcing you to buy or use multiple account to gain advantage or keep up in player vs player to be pay to win... Straight up. Even if creating 10 acc is free, its annoying as f*** and they will still milk you on every one of them to allow you to use the broker and have more inventory so its not a solution to me. You shouldnt need more than one account to be competitve, your just stupid too.
"Yes by the way i do consider a game that has mechanics forcing you to buy or use multiple account to gain advantage or keep up in player vs player to be pay to win... Straight up"
In any mmo that I know of, you can have multiple accounts. These "extra" accounts will give you an advantage, in whatever way. Thus, all mmos are P2W.
AA does not "force you to buy or use multiple accounts to gain advantage or keep up", players who have the multiple accounts do.
Really? Are you even serious here? Damn.
Then you only know free to play and cash grab games idk... Eso, wildstar, ff14, aion(at release) and so many more gain absolutely nothing from having multiple account. The most you will get out of it will be more bank space, maybe more space to sell items on the broker and thats really it, there is no real effect on the gameplay or on the economy.
ArcheAge on the other hand, having one account not only limits gameplay wise but directly affect the economy greatly. 1 guy with one account sub = ? LP vs 1 guy with 3 account sub = ?Lp x 3... So he can produce, farm, craft, open coin purse 3 times more than you on a daily basis. Do that just for one week and the guy multi boxing or just with multiple account will out gear you greatly in pvp.... Along with affecting the economy greatly and getting much more gold then you... Now if your fine with that, good for you, i am not, just stop trying to find excusss to some very simple things.
Yeah you can always say gear doesnt make skills, just like numbers doesnt matter but this is not freaking guild wars 2 with its horizontal progression, its an open world pvp sandbox....
Eh whatever, stupids be stupid.
It all balances out in the end. You may get your stuff first, but it doesn't stop the next guy from getting it too. You talk like the guy who gets it first will be the only one who gets it. Everyone will get it, in due time. Some people just can't be bothered with the time aspect of it and use every means necessary to get them to it as fast as possible. Call that P2W if you want, I call it Pay To Become Bored First.
Your first paragraph: Who gets the gold you buy? To buy APEX gold is required and it is a dynamic thing, same for AH CS items, too much supply too little demand it jumps one way, too much demand not enough supply it jumps the other way. You keep trying to say the cash shop is pay to win when, again, it isn't simply because it is a closed system, gold is not created out of thin air when you sell things and the game has plenty of gold sinks by what I heard. I'd say your problem in the end is you've not seen a system similar to this one at work in the past while I have and it is P2W only if it offers an otherwise impossible to acquired advantage (buying gold is not an advantage, having more LP is not an advantage, these things are tools and having more leeway means you can be more ambitious more aggressive but to say it offers a individual or a guild any tangible real world advantage is... patently false).
Your second paragraph: So every MMO that has ever existed from the vaunted likes of EQ1, SWG, WoW, UO, etc to newer ones like SWtOR are P2W, right? I mean any game would be far easier with multiple accounts (in SWG you could self supply and thus have much more leeway as a crafter to undercut adversaries, in UO it meant anything from combat support (if you were really good at multitasking) to the same crafter issue as SWG,etc).
Also next time you call someone stupid you may want to check your grammar.
``gold is not created out of thin air when you sell things and the game has plenty of gold sinks by what I heard. ``
By what you heard... By what you heard..... BY what you HEARD.
Do i really need to explain as to why this sounds so wrong? So you are basing your entire argument on what you heard against someone thats been there, done it and experienced it from first hand and from day one of alpha thru multiple lvl 50.... Lets make something clear here, the game wasnt even released in beta that i had experience all there was to experience in this game, yup. And here you are, clueless, trying to talk about something you barely know.
I understand the supply and demand that is the basic of any economy in game or rl but you are way out. The final outcome of it all will be that the one who spend the most, for lp pots, for multiple accounts, for other perks, for buying gold via the broker will gain huge advantages. You are overlooking the fact that this has a huge snowball effect, p2w players will be the one creating most of the items in the game (craft/farm/mats) since their huge amount of LP from either pots or multiple accounts.
You compare old games that been out for a very long time and can allow themself to sell say, lvl faster like wow because its been out for freaking 10 years. Yet again i made my point about you silly heads trying to compare AA to any themeparks out there. YOU CANT COMPARE A THEMEPARK ECONOMY OR PAYMENT MODEL TO A SANDPARK OR SANDBOX. Even if blizzard would sell totally op gear only purchasable thru cash shop, it would not affect the market as much as it would in AA and it would not stop anyones progression.
An op guy in wow will at best win what? battlegrounds? They wont invade your freaking farm and own your housing area just for the hell of it, stopping you from any further work until you get rid of em or they get bored.
Again if you like the kind of game that requires you to have multiple account in order to be competitive in pvp or in the game as a whole, go for it. Yes i consider any game that requires you to BUY or USE multiple account PAY TO WIN. It simple is.
Pay more, spend more in order to gain advantage on any other single account members... Hows that not simple in your head ? Of course its not like buying the most op gear and you one hit anyone else in the game but it is STILL and ADVANTAGE.
I dont know man, i got a life going on, i dont have time to care for managing tons of accounts or spending thousands of dollars on a freaking game and i think MOST NORMAL people will agree with this.
This is awesome
+10
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
George Washington
Yeah that look badass, sure freeloaders never really cares because they cant complain, you get sh1t for free. The same kids that goes from one game to another without really wondering as to why each of these games fail or even questioning the way they are built.
If only he had read that i paid my way to beta and pay multiple sub to few other games. Money isnt the issue.
Them kids. So much attitude, very little knowledge.
I had 2 accounts in SWG and it was a HUGE benefit to me, so our experiences are differenet. I almost doubled my income and had made almost 1 billion credits in 6 months. I could not have done that w/0 the second account. I needed the inventory and harvestors that the second account supplied. So, atleast in my case, that second account was P2W.
Likewise. In pre-NGE SWG, I had a Master Chef on my main account and a Bio-Eng on a second account to supply him. Massive profitz were made. The additional property slots were extremely handy as well, seeing as I needed at least 6 factories constantly running.
In EVE the advantages of 2 or more accounts are well known. I had 2 subs running in EVE for about 4 years...
It really depends on the design of the game. Many of the limitations and game mechanics that made multi-accounts useful in past games are not found in modern games. The trend is toward megaserver, one-character-does-everything types of design. In many ways, AA is old school.
I understand that a lot of people come from different mmos/background from all ages and therefore will find a cash shop or game mechanics more or less P2W depending on their own way to look at things, the way they like to play their games, time invested and all that.
But you must admit that, as soon as someone gain advantage over someone else by buying more account or injecting money into the game, its sort of Pay to Win. If you forget all you know about games and just read the sentence.
I have purchased many Labor Pots that i will resell in the broker for gold, which i will use to purchase or make top tier gear in the game while everyone else struggling to make lvl 40s crafted. Then i will go pvp.
Like i said, if you like hoping thru multiple account and paying more here and there for a GAME.... Go for it.
I like P2P game where they get my 15 bucks a months and leave me alone, they dont try to milk you every second you spend in the game at least.
I don't think anyone is saying it isn't (sort of) P2W to have 2 accounts, or to buy LP pots. What I'm saying is that they are both P2W. So ALL mmos are P2W in that sense.
Make no mistake about it, I too prefer a sub model w/ no microtransactions, but I like AA enough to overlook that one aspect of the game.
As another poster put it, the idea is quite simple to understand.
Why, as a gamer, should I pay for a game and subscription and still have all these other things I just might need to invest in as well? Why are there things in a game I paid for that cost something, but can be replenished through RMT's...i.e. cash shop?
And it's an epidemic in this game. Every concept added to this game can be traced back to it's cash shop, ESPECIALLY LP. Im tired of the arguments too that LP has no effect on Patrons. If it doesnt then why not remove it for Patrons? Why is it even there for paying customers.
When I purchase a game, I expect to have free reign of all it's contents, otherwise, I am being cheated. In AA, it's blatently obvious from the login that you DO NOT get what you have just paid for.
And i am saying that it is very far from being all or even most mmos that benefit from multiple accounts. I played mostly mmos the past many years and i never played one that required me or gained any benefit from having multiple accounts. I am not a role player by any mean but i hate needing to creating multiple char or even multiple accounts. Besides, as soon as i smell money grab like i did with AA for exemple, i run off right away. In case of AA it just pissed me off because i waited for this game.
On the other hand, i am happy that you like the game enough to overlook its flaws, i hope it remains this way for months or years to come. I think we all want to find home in a good mmo, kinda hard.
There's no accounting for taste. It's no surprise I like AA as it reminds me of SWG.
I like a little PVP, but I really really like to craft. The crafting in AA is pretty kool, if you're into that sort of thing. SWG's crafting was far deeper imo. You could really customize your crafts, they were actually unique('esque) as you could use different quality mats to craft them. In AA not as much, although I'm not fully schooled on AA weapon/armor crafting.
Really, I'm a pve carebear/crafter at heart, so If AA had the pve of FF xiv and the rest of it was AA, I'd be a lot happier. But AA's cool.