Originally posted by Bigdaddyx Well there it goes. As far as the communication goes it has always been bad since GW1. Anet is not known to listen to community.
Yeah.
Like the community asked for more permanent content, Anet made the Living Story permanent content.
The community asked for account bound dyes and a wardrobe and Anet implemented.
The community asked for 7 heroes in GW1, Anet implemented it.
The community asked for account bound currencies, Anet implemented it.
The community asked for a better miniature system, the next feature pack will deliver it.
The community protested against the inclusion of a certain armor in the cash shop, Anet removed it.
The community asked for account bound legendaries and Anet made both legendary and ascended items account bound.
Etc.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
What does that thread have to do with how Anet was lauded during GW1?
Where does it say that the company will lay out their plans for all the players to see?
In fact multiple posts clearly say that they wont be able to talk about what the players want to know of.
That quote from Anet is pure PR.
They communicate as good as a company can. Player expectations are just unrealistic.
So a comment by the Studio Design Director is PR?
That title doesn't look like 'PR' to me but then again, I don't know ANet's internal structure.
I do find it fascinating that you do though. Care to elaborate?
Yes, lets sweep what Anet says as 'PR' even though they painstakingly say on that thread that 'this isn't a PR post'.
Like I said, I don't understand you 'Pro-GW2' posters.
Anet are the creators of GW2. Calling them liars isn't exactly helpful when defending their creation.
/FACEPALM
PR stands for Public Relations.
Any communication with the Public by a member of Anet staff is PR.
I'm not a Pro-GW2 poster neither I'm trying to defend GW2 - I like GW2 so I play it. That makes me a player of GW2.
It is quite funny that you accuse me of being a pro-GW2 and a defender of Anet and then say that I'm doing poor at that because I call a spade a spade?
The situation is simple.
Players want to know Anet plans.
Anet being a business, is not interested in divulge their plans until they are ready to implement them.
Some players with work experience understand this, others without any work experience or that have limited contact to how business decisions are made, do not.
If this isn't a PR statement, what the well is?
"I know some are concerned about whether ArenaNet is communicating with you and listening and responding to your feedback. As you saw with yesterday’s announcement, we do. All of us at ArenaNet play the game with you, chat with you and read your forum posts, and work on the things that we think will most delight and entertain you.
We’ve set a clear policy in the past year: we don’t talk speculatively about future development. We don’t want to string you along. Creating fun is an uncertain business: sometimes things work out and sometimes they don’t; sometimes we go back to the drawing board over and over before we get something right. If we make optimistic promises and then can’t deliver on them, everyone suffers. So when we attend a trade show or give an interview, we’re there to talk about what we’re getting ready to ship, not to speculate on what we might ship someday.
Don’t read that as meaning that we don’t want to talk with you about the longer-term roadmap. The intention of the CDI threads is to talk with you about the roadmap. We want to talk design philosophy with you and hear how you want to see the game evolve. When those discussions trigger development, we’ll work internally until we have something we’re proud of before we’ll announce it.
A lot of the questions I’ve seen posted this week are as simple as this: does ArenaNet have an agenda to never do something? That’s almost never the case, and if it is the case you deserve to know and we’ll make sure we get more clear. In general the simple truth is this: when we’re not currently working on something, it’s because we’re working on something else instead that we think is more important for the game and community.
Our developers post on these forums on a voluntary basis, and in addition to developers, we have a community team who can clarify and be the bridge between players and developers. They’re ready to engage you on these topics. And I know it’s hard for the community team to engage players across all the forums and sites where these questions are being discussed, so I’m going to support the team in consolidating and focusing as necessary, so that we can be clear to the community where you can go to get a response.
See you in-game, Mike O’Brien"
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Originally posted by Bigdaddyx Well there it goes. As far as the communication goes it has always been bad since GW1. Anet is not known to listen to community.
Yeah.
Like the community asked for more permanent content, Anet made the Living Story permanent content.
The community asked for account bound dyes and a wardrobe and Anet implemented.
The community asked for 7 heroes in GW1, Anet implemented it.
The community asked for account bound currencies, Anet implemented it.
The community asked for a better miniature system, the next feature pack will deliver it.
The community protested against the inclusion of a certain armor in the cash shop, Anet removed it.
The community asked for account bound legendaries and Anet made both legendary and ascended items account bound.
Etc.
[mod edit]
Some games don't ship broken and need a reboot.
If it is not broken, don't fix it.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Originally posted by Bigdaddyx Well there it goes. As far as the communication goes it has always been bad since GW1. Anet is not known to listen to community.
Yeah.
Like the community asked for more permanent content, Anet made the Living Story permanent content.
The community asked for account bound dyes and a wardrobe and Anet implemented.
The community asked for 7 heroes in GW1, Anet implemented it.
The community asked for account bound currencies, Anet implemented it.
The community asked for a better miniature system, the next feature pack will deliver it.
The community protested against the inclusion of a certain armor in the cash shop, Anet removed it.
The community asked for account bound legendaries and Anet made both legendary and ascended items account bound.
Etc.
ya I think those are more quality of life update. Not to mention many of them are related to cashshop, so they bother to update them.
Originally posted by Bigdaddyx Well there it goes. As far as the communication goes it has always been bad since GW1. Anet is not known to listen to community.
Yeah.
Like the community asked for more permanent content, Anet made the Living Story permanent content.
The community asked for account bound dyes and a wardrobe and Anet implemented.
The community asked for 7 heroes in GW1, Anet implemented it.
The community asked for account bound currencies, Anet implemented it.
The community asked for a better miniature system, the next feature pack will deliver it.
The community protested against the inclusion of a certain armor in the cash shop, Anet removed it.
The community asked for account bound legendaries and Anet made both legendary and ascended items account bound.
Etc.
[mod edit]
Some games don't ship broken and need a reboot.
If it is not broken, don't fix it.
if you mean FFIV, ya. but I think they come back really strong.
They should have more followers than GW2(western) now. If you include China, GW2 is probably larger. Not to mention it is not easy to survive as a subscribe game.
This is just a start, the dev team always talks about whats coming, things like frontlines, new class, chocobo stuff, gold saucer, housing, continuation of the pve story, quality of life changes that are coming, etc., you can even make an estimate of when and whats coming into the next patches.
I have no idea what the whining is all about. GW2 is a great game that gives you a ton to do for spending a tiny amount of money. People have spent twice or 3 times as much on SWTOR and Rift and Secret World before those games went F2P. GW2 has a lot to offer and the PVP although I've read a lot of belly aching about it is actually some of the most fun PVP I've experienced in any MMO.
This is just a start, the dev team always talks about whats coming, things like frontlines, new class, chocobo stuff, gold saucer, housing, continuation of the pve story, quality of life changes that are coming, etc., you can even make an estimate of when and whats coming into the next patches.
This is just a start, the dev team always talks about whats coming, things like frontlines, new class, chocobo stuff, gold saucer, housing, continuation of the pve story, quality of life changes that are coming, etc., you can even make an estimate of when and whats coming into the next patches.
I'm not sure what the CDI does. Anet policy is they can't tell people what are being developed.
I think the CDI is basically a gathering of all the forum complaint. WIth majority of the issues simply ignored.
Because really, almost all the complaint from the last CDI is never addressed. Even if Anet is (possibly) slowly addressing them, we'll never know, since it is their policy that they can't disclose anything.
Any communication with the Public by a member of Anet staff is PR.
I'm not a Pro-GW2 poster neither I'm trying to defend GW2 - I like GW2 so I play it. That makes me a player of GW2.
It is quite funny that you accuse me of being a pro-GW2 and a defender of Anet and then say that I'm doing poor at that because I call a spade a spade?
The situation is simple.
Players want to know Anet plans.
Anet being a business, is not interested in divulge their plans until they are ready to implement them.
Some players with work experience understand this, others without any work experience or that have limited contact to how business decisions are made, do not.
If this isn't a PR statement, what the well is?
/snip
See you in-game, Mike O’Brien"
I generally don't break down a post this badly but this post has 1 fact right. That is...impressive.
PR stands for Public Relations. - This is true and the only thing right on this post.
Any communication with the Public by a member of Anet staff is PR. - This is factually false. Sorry but your personal definition of what 'PR' is, is not correct. I'd suggest using this thing called 'Google'.
I'm not a Pro-GW2 poster - This is factually false. Your post history over the past 2 years is more than enough proof.
I call spade a spade? - This is factually false. And what is hilarious is that it is on this very thread! Even ANet admits they are bad at communicating. When the MAKER of the game is saying 'We are bad at this', you saying 'they are good at this' is not calling 'spade a spade'.
Some players with work experience understand this, others without any work experience or that have limited contact to how business decisions are made, do not. - Nice 'ad hominem' to close it off.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Any communication with the Public by a member of Anet staff is PR.
I'm not a Pro-GW2 poster neither I'm trying to defend GW2 - I like GW2 so I play it. That makes me a player of GW2.
It is quite funny that you accuse me of being a pro-GW2 and a defender of Anet and then say that I'm doing poor at that because I call a spade a spade?
The situation is simple.
Players want to know Anet plans.
Anet being a business, is not interested in divulge their plans until they are ready to implement them.
Some players with work experience understand this, others without any work experience or that have limited contact to how business decisions are made, do not.
If this isn't a PR statement, what the well is?
/snip
See you in-game, Mike O’Brien"
I generally don't break down a post this badly but this post has 1 fact right. That is...impressive.
PR stands for Public Relations. - This is true and the only thing right on this post.
Any communication with the Public by a member of Anet staff is PR. - This is factually false. Sorry but your personal definition of what 'PR' is, is not correct. I'd suggest using this thing called 'Google'.
I'm not a Pro-GW2 poster - This is factually false. Your post history over the past 2 years is more than enough proof.
I call spade a spade? - This is factually false. And what is hilarious is that it is on this very thread! Even ANet admits they are bad at communicating. When the MAKER of the game is saying 'We are bad at this', you saying 'they are good at this' is not calling 'spade a spade'.
Some players with work experience understand this, others without any work experience or that have limited contact to how business decisions are made, do not. - Nice 'ad hominem' to close it off.
Lets see how this exchange started.
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Nothing like rewriting history.
Anet was lauded by their players for spending a ton of time in guildwarsguru, posting and replying.
No company will lay out their complete plans for their products to the general public when the public wants.
This post is factually false or it is calling out ANet as a liar.
"Communication hasn’t been good enough and we aim to correct that."
In the same thread; "We knew that we needed to do more for communication."
I always find it funny when the 'pro-GW2' players throw ANet under the bus to protect their game. You do realise ANet created GW2 right? RIGHT?!
From me saying that
a) Anet was perceived as having good communication during GW1
and
b) Companies will not reveal their plans to the public.
You decided that I was calling Anet a liar because I said during GW1, more than 5 years ago, they were perceived as having excellent communication and that companies don't reveal their plans to the public (which Mike O'Brien reaffirmed in his post).
When someone misconstrues posts in this way, they can claim whatever they want.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Any communication with the Public by a member of Anet staff is PR.
I'm not a Pro-GW2 poster neither I'm trying to defend GW2 - I like GW2 so I play it. That makes me a player of GW2.
It is quite funny that you accuse me of being a pro-GW2 and a defender of Anet and then say that I'm doing poor at that because I call a spade a spade?
The situation is simple.
Players want to know Anet plans.
Anet being a business, is not interested in divulge their plans until they are ready to implement them.
Some players with work experience understand this, others without any work experience or that have limited contact to how business decisions are made, do not.
If this isn't a PR statement, what the well is?
/snip
See you in-game, Mike O’Brien"
When someone misconstrues posts in this way, they can claim whatever they want.
I guess that means the 1st quoted post is false then?
So you posted a factually inaccurate post, got called out and then decided to say 'that's not what I meant!'?
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
When someone misconstrues posts in this way, they can claim whatever they want.
I guess that means the 1st quoted post is false then?
So you posted a factually inaccurate post, got called out and then decided to say 'that's not what I meant!'?
It is another example of either intentional misrepresentation or inability to read.
Martin Kerstein was attacked by what he posted in his "private" tweet account.
According to your interpretation of PR, whatever that maybe, that isn't PR.
But for most people any communication made by someone connected to a company, especially one that generally communicates with its costumers, is always talking in the name of that company.
Secondly you keep using pro-GW2 poster as some kind of accusation - my 2 years post history shows I'm a GW2 player. Period.
I have better things to do than to post for 2+ years in a forum of a game I don't like and I don't play.
Third I'm saying Anet's call for better communication an empty promise.
Why?
Because what GW2's players complain about is not the way communication is done but the fact that Anet doesn't lay down their plans.
Their communication is quite good - they have blog posts, they have live shows, they have promotional videos, they are heavily present in social media. In fact many people complain about so many GW2's news on these forims!
They just aren't laying down a detailed roadmap set in stone for the public.
On the other hand I understand why they do so. In business secrecy is important and you shouldn't say you will do something and then not do it.
I really doubt that the GW2 demographic is all comprised of people that have worked in business and, no, I don't include you in GW2 demographic hence no 'ad hominem'.
So your post consists of:
a) An unique interpretation of PR not shared by the majority of other people;
b) Trying to turn someone that is a player of a game that he enjoys into something else;
c) Claiming I said something that I didn't say;
d) Trying to score "forum wars" points by claiming ad hominem on a simple stated fact.
PS: For most people Public relations (PR) is the practice of managing the spread of information between an individual or an organization and the public.
Mike O'Brien is the President of the Anet (individual representing an organization) spreading information (his forum post that I said it is PR) and the public (GW2 players that read GW2 official forums).
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
When someone misconstrues posts in this way, they can claim whatever they want.
I guess that means the 1st quoted post is false then?
So you posted a factually inaccurate post, got called out and then decided to say 'that's not what I meant!'?
It is another example of either intentional misrepresentation or inability to read.
Martin Kerstein was attacked by what he posted in his "private" tweet account.
According to your interpretation, whatever that maybe, that isn't PR.
But for most people any communication made by someone connected to a company, especially one that generally communicates with its costumers, is always talking in the name of that company.
Secondly you keep using pro-GW2 poster as some kind of accusation - my 2 years post history shows I'm a GW2 player. I have better things to do than to post for 2+ years in a forum of a game I don't like and I don't play.
Third I'm calling Anet's call for better communication an empty promise.
Why?
Because what GW2's players complain about is not the way communication is done but the fact that Anet doesn't lay down their plans.
Their communication is quite good - they have blog posts, they have live shows, they have promotional videos, they are heavily present in social media. In fact many people complain about so many GW2's news on these forims!
They just aren't laying down a detailed roadmap set in stone for the public.
On the other hand I understand why they do so. In business secrecy is important and you shouldn't say you will do something and then not do it.
I really doubt that the GW2 demographic is all comprised of people that have worked in business and, no, I don't include you in GW2 demographic hence no 'ad hominem'.
So am I pro or anti Anet by saying something contrary to what they say?
Make up your mind.
That would be your assumption. Based on your interpretation, everything you just wrote is a direct quote from the CEO of your company, because after all, you are connected to the company, therefore you are speaking for the company.
That would be your assumption. Based on your interpretation, everything you just wrote is a direct quote from the CEO of your company, because after all, you are connected to the company, therefore you are speaking for the company.
How is Mike O'Brien the CEO of my company?
Last time I checked I worked for Royal Mail.
A consumer of a product in no way represents the company of the product he bought.
My interpretation of PR is consensual enough that it is the one used by wikipedia.
That would be your assumption. Based on your interpretation, everything you just wrote is a direct quote from the CEO of your company, because after all, you are connected to the company, therefore you are speaking for the company.
How is Mike O'Brien the CEO of my company?
Last time I checked I worked for Royal Mail.
A consumer of a product in no way represents the company of the product he bought.
My interpretation of PR is consensual enough that it is the one used by wikipedia.
"Public relations (PR) is the practice of managing the spread of information between an individual or an organization and the public."
Um, re-read again...
And I am saying that just because you work for said company, does not mean you speak for said company, unless you explicitly state that you are speaking for the company. Otherwise merely farting in public would be construed as a public statement from the company. My comments are directly purely at what you had stated, which is an assumption on your part that his statements were on behalf of the company, purely because he has spoken on behalf of the company in the past.
That would be your assumption. Based on your interpretation, everything you just wrote is a direct quote from the CEO of your company, because after all, you are connected to the company, therefore you are speaking for the company.
How is Mike O'Brien the CEO of my company?
Last time I checked I worked for Royal Mail.
A consumer of a product in no way represents the company of the product he bought.
My interpretation of PR is consensual enough that it is the one used by wikipedia.
"Public relations (PR) is the practice of managing the spread of information between an individual or an organization and the public."
Um, re-read again...
And I am saying that just because you work for said company, does not mean you speak for said company, unless you explicitly state that you are speaking for the company. Otherwise merely farting in public would be construed as a public statement from the company. My comments are directly purely at what you had stated, which is an assumption on your part that his statements were on behalf of the company, purely because he has spoken on behalf of the company in the past.
Depends of the position.
A janitor or a costumer support dude word will have no value unless they are talking in the company venue.
The CEO of Anet or even a Community rep or a game director?
They need to take care with what they say.
In fact Anet admitted that themselves and there was a period in time that forum communication drop quite a lot.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I've always liked and respected Martin and Regina. My respect for them led to me greatly limiting the breadth and depth of my criticisms for the game on the official forums, as I knew the CMs not only read it, but face a brick wall when trying to communicate player concerns to management.
My read on the situation with Martin's tweet is that he had finally had enough of trying to guide Anet into a strategy of more open communication and it was specifically another round of B.S. from Mike O'brien that was the final straw on the camel's back.
If it weren't for the way that the Richard Garriot vs. NCSoft lawsuit worked out, I think NCSoft would probably have forced MO out of ANet by now.
I'll continue to try to reign in my level of feedback on the official forums out of respect for Regina and the remaining CMs in general. As to Martin, I'm sad to see him go, sad that he had to spend the last two years between a rock and a hard place due to management issues at ANet and I'm also sad because we have another case of people who I'd least like to see leave, leave, while the most cancerous individuals remain.
ANet has become an absolutely disfunctional entity and the departure of Martin and Kate are just another symptom of the disease that is festering there.
Comments
I suppose over the 2 years a few of the developer did left GW2. Maybe they are paid too little for too much work.
My guess is only a few of the lead dev are paid decently, the rest probably didn't get paid very well. That seemed to be the trend how market works.
FFXIV is miles ahead of Anet in the communication department, it's not unrealistic to expect more, Anet is just bad at it.
Can you link to examples of that communication?
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Yeah.
Like the community asked for more permanent content, Anet made the Living Story permanent content.
The community asked for account bound dyes and a wardrobe and Anet implemented.
The community asked for 7 heroes in GW1, Anet implemented it.
The community asked for account bound currencies, Anet implemented it.
The community asked for a better miniature system, the next feature pack will deliver it.
The community protested against the inclusion of a certain armor in the cash shop, Anet removed it.
The community asked for account bound legendaries and Anet made both legendary and ascended items account bound.
Etc.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
PR stands for Public Relations.
Any communication with the Public by a member of Anet staff is PR.
I'm not a Pro-GW2 poster neither I'm trying to defend GW2 - I like GW2 so I play it. That makes me a player of GW2.
It is quite funny that you accuse me of being a pro-GW2 and a defender of Anet and then say that I'm doing poor at that because I call a spade a spade?
The situation is simple.
Players want to know Anet plans.
Anet being a business, is not interested in divulge their plans until they are ready to implement them.
Some players with work experience understand this, others without any work experience or that have limited contact to how business decisions are made, do not.
If this isn't a PR statement, what the well is?
"I know some are concerned about whether ArenaNet is communicating with you and listening and responding to your feedback. As you saw with yesterday’s announcement, we do. All of us at ArenaNet play the game with you, chat with you and read your forum posts, and work on the things that we think will most delight and entertain you.
We’ve set a clear policy in the past year: we don’t talk speculatively about future development. We don’t want to string you along. Creating fun is an uncertain business: sometimes things work out and sometimes they don’t; sometimes we go back to the drawing board over and over before we get something right. If we make optimistic promises and then can’t deliver on them, everyone suffers. So when we attend a trade show or give an interview, we’re there to talk about what we’re getting ready to ship, not to speculate on what we might ship someday.
Don’t read that as meaning that we don’t want to talk with you about the longer-term roadmap. The intention of the CDI threads is to talk with you about the roadmap. We want to talk design philosophy with you and hear how you want to see the game evolve. When those discussions trigger development, we’ll work internally until we have something we’re proud of before we’ll announce it.
A lot of the questions I’ve seen posted this week are as simple as this: does ArenaNet have an agenda to never do something? That’s almost never the case, and if it is the case you deserve to know and we’ll make sure we get more clear. In general the simple truth is this: when we’re not currently working on something, it’s because we’re working on something else instead that we think is more important for the game and community.
Our developers post on these forums on a voluntary basis, and in addition to developers, we have a community team who can clarify and be the bridge between players and developers. They’re ready to engage you on these topics. And I know it’s hard for the community team to engage players across all the forums and sites where these questions are being discussed, so I’m going to support the team in consolidating and focusing as necessary, so that we can be clear to the community where you can go to get a response.
See you in-game,
Mike O’Brien"
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Some games don't ship broken and need a reboot.
If it is not broken, don't fix it.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
ya I think those are more quality of life update. Not to mention many of them are related to cashshop, so they bother to update them.
if you mean FFIV, ya. but I think they come back really strong.
They should have more followers than GW2(western) now. If you include China, GW2 is probably larger. Not to mention it is not easy to survive as a subscribe game.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/forums/642-Letters-from-the-Producer
This is just a start, the dev team always talks about whats coming, things like frontlines, new class, chocobo stuff, gold saucer, housing, continuation of the pve story, quality of life changes that are coming, etc., you can even make an estimate of when and whats coming into the next patches.
I remember when i sued to play GW1 and we didn't even have a forum and had to communicate wit devs through sites like guild wars guru.
You should thank the gods that atleast you have a forum for direct communication with devs.
Don't see anything that different to GW2 dev blog posts, GW2 CDI (https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/The-CDI-is-coming-back-Topics/first) or GW2 youtube shows (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDCvogxNKN3nmdmYoblp6T3Pz44t5bCI4 and https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDCvogxNKN3nCrcluAuZPGIsF_ygcbnJk).
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I'm not sure what the CDI does. Anet policy is they can't tell people what are being developed.
I think the CDI is basically a gathering of all the forum complaint. WIth majority of the issues simply ignored.
Because really, almost all the complaint from the last CDI is never addressed. Even if Anet is (possibly) slowly addressing them, we'll never know, since it is their policy that they can't disclose anything.
I generally don't break down a post this badly but this post has 1 fact right. That is...impressive.
PR stands for Public Relations. - This is true and the only thing right on this post.
Any communication with the Public by a member of Anet staff is PR. - This is factually false. Sorry but your personal definition of what 'PR' is, is not correct. I'd suggest using this thing called 'Google'.
I'm not a Pro-GW2 poster - This is factually false. Your post history over the past 2 years is more than enough proof.
I call spade a spade? - This is factually false. And what is hilarious is that it is on this very thread! Even ANet admits they are bad at communicating. When the MAKER of the game is saying 'We are bad at this', you saying 'they are good at this' is not calling 'spade a spade'.
Some players with work experience understand this, others without any work experience or that have limited contact to how business decisions are made, do not. - Nice 'ad hominem' to close it off.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
the ui is clunky and is missing many qol things so welch did not do a good job and she had to go.
kerstein... well... he was pretty useless imo.
what i would love to see is the designer who did eotm and skyhammer being fired. or better being put into a brazen bull.
Lets see how this exchange started.
From me saying that
a) Anet was perceived as having good communication during GW1
and
b) Companies will not reveal their plans to the public.
You decided that I was calling Anet a liar because I said during GW1, more than 5 years ago, they were perceived as having excellent communication and that companies don't reveal their plans to the public (which Mike O'Brien reaffirmed in his post).
When someone misconstrues posts in this way, they can claim whatever they want.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I guess that means the 1st quoted post is false then?
So you posted a factually inaccurate post, got called out and then decided to say 'that's not what I meant!'?
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
It is another example of either intentional misrepresentation or inability to read.
Martin Kerstein was attacked by what he posted in his "private" tweet account.
According to your interpretation of PR, whatever that maybe, that isn't PR.
But for most people any communication made by someone connected to a company, especially one that generally communicates with its costumers, is always talking in the name of that company.
Secondly you keep using pro-GW2 poster as some kind of accusation - my 2 years post history shows I'm a GW2 player. Period.
I have better things to do than to post for 2+ years in a forum of a game I don't like and I don't play.
Third I'm saying Anet's call for better communication an empty promise.
Why?
Because what GW2's players complain about is not the way communication is done but the fact that Anet doesn't lay down their plans.
Their communication is quite good - they have blog posts, they have live shows, they have promotional videos, they are heavily present in social media. In fact many people complain about so many GW2's news on these forims!
They just aren't laying down a detailed roadmap set in stone for the public.
On the other hand I understand why they do so. In business secrecy is important and you shouldn't say you will do something and then not do it.
I really doubt that the GW2 demographic is all comprised of people that have worked in business and, no, I don't include you in GW2 demographic hence no 'ad hominem'.
So your post consists of:
a) An unique interpretation of PR not shared by the majority of other people;
b) Trying to turn someone that is a player of a game that he enjoys into something else;
c) Claiming I said something that I didn't say;
d) Trying to score "forum wars" points by claiming ad hominem on a simple stated fact.
PS: For most people Public relations (PR) is the practice of managing the spread of information between an individual or an organization and the public.
Mike O'Brien is the President of the Anet (individual representing an organization) spreading information (his forum post that I said it is PR) and the public (GW2 players that read GW2 official forums).
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
That would be your assumption. Based on your interpretation, everything you just wrote is a direct quote from the CEO of your company, because after all, you are connected to the company, therefore you are speaking for the company.
How is Mike O'Brien the CEO of my company?
Last time I checked I worked for Royal Mail.
A consumer of a product in no way represents the company of the product he bought.
My interpretation of PR is consensual enough that it is the one used by wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_relations
"Public relations (PR) is the practice of managing the spread of information between an individual or an organization and the public."
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Um, re-read again...
And I am saying that just because you work for said company, does not mean you speak for said company, unless you explicitly state that you are speaking for the company. Otherwise merely farting in public would be construed as a public statement from the company. My comments are directly purely at what you had stated, which is an assumption on your part that his statements were on behalf of the company, purely because he has spoken on behalf of the company in the past.
Depends of the position.
A janitor or a costumer support dude word will have no value unless they are talking in the company venue.
The CEO of Anet or even a Community rep or a game director?
They need to take care with what they say.
In fact Anet admitted that themselves and there was a period in time that forum communication drop quite a lot.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I've always liked and respected Martin and Regina. My respect for them led to me greatly limiting the breadth and depth of my criticisms for the game on the official forums, as I knew the CMs not only read it, but face a brick wall when trying to communicate player concerns to management.
My read on the situation with Martin's tweet is that he had finally had enough of trying to guide Anet into a strategy of more open communication and it was specifically another round of B.S. from Mike O'brien that was the final straw on the camel's back.
If it weren't for the way that the Richard Garriot vs. NCSoft lawsuit worked out, I think NCSoft would probably have forced MO out of ANet by now.
I'll continue to try to reign in my level of feedback on the official forums out of respect for Regina and the remaining CMs in general. As to Martin, I'm sad to see him go, sad that he had to spend the last two years between a rock and a hard place due to management issues at ANet and I'm also sad because we have another case of people who I'd least like to see leave, leave, while the most cancerous individuals remain.
ANet has become an absolutely disfunctional entity and the departure of Martin and Kate are just another symptom of the disease that is festering there.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
According to this logic (which is hilarious) than what you wrote is "PR" for Royal Mail; unless you are the janitor.
I didn't know 'Royal Mail plays GW2'.
Hang on a min...
LOLWUT?
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.