I don't know where you get that AA is the game people are looking for, I mean really forced PVP that's what people are looking for?
I can tell you right now this game is gonna be Niche but the way your making it sound it's gonna be the next WOW killer I can tell you right now that's not gonna happen not even close......
How many games have to come out with forced PVP before people realize that's not what everyone wants, just look at sub #'s for them.
Now for the people who do like that kind of thing AA is the game for them, but to make broad sweeping generalizations about people and say this is what we all want is crazy and this is coming from someone who actually likes PVP........
World of Warcraft did original things with a game. There are only two companies that have the history, experience and minds to do that.
Blizzard and SOE. SOE are damaged goods and might never live down the NGE failure. They have the imagination to make the "Next WoW" I just don't think they have the courage to go that road with the burn they took.
Most companies are too busy playing dress up to be original. Asian game companies have the graphics imagination but they are OCD about cash shops and turn their games in to grinders with a pay to not grind option but they don't really provide anything besides to grind or not to grind.
WoW didn't do anything wrong. It's just that nobody has figured out that what WoW did was to not clone a better game.
Wait ,,,what did Blizzard do that was original in WoW?
World of Warcraft actually did the exact opposite and injected so much money into this industry that we are able to see games like Guild Wars 2, Wildstar, Firefall, Archeage, TERA, Elder Scrolls, SWTOR and all the other games come to production. World of Warcraft allowed many developers and aspiring programmers realize their dream by providing jobs and gave them a chacne to work on a huge library of MMO games you see available today. Without World of Warcraft, gaming would probably not be as well received to the general public. Whether the new generation of MMOs are of good quality is debatable, however, it opened the doors for many types of people to get into the industry. Ultimately, I feel that game designers and creative directors are to blame for the lack of ability to produce fun and interactive mini-games within MMOs. These people who are supposedly "game designers" or "creative directors" aren't really that unique since they're not "true" MMO gamers. They just implement the tried and true mechanics that WoW features and slap on some graphics and call it a day. They crunch the numbers to make sure the game is profitable for X amount of months and provide a contingency plan if it fails.
While I'm generalizing a lot of my points, I'm sure there are exceptions.
WoW didn't do anything wrong. It's just that nobody has figured out that what WoW did was to not clone a better game.
Wait ,,,what did Blizzard do that was original in WoW?
Nothing. WoW didn't no anything original. It was a casual clone of EverQuest, more or less. And under its shadow the industry has suffered. Now MMOs are the laughing stock of the gaming industry, when in the past they were the bright hope of its future.
A big LOL at all the poeple trying to claim that the biggest factor in WoW's initial and continued success was "timing", and not the fact that it was the most polished, fun, and everything it did, it did better than its compitetion...
A big LOL at all the poeple trying to claim that the biggest factor in WoW's initial and continued success was "timing", and not the fact that it was the most polished, fun, and everything it did, it did better than its compitetion...
That's kinda what I said earlier on in the thread. It's easy to disparage the game as having killed off the rest of the genre but, to quote myself, I think people are confusing genre-killing with genre-defining given that 12 MILLION people all seemed to think that WoW was better than the other games it sucked subscribers/players from.
I'm mostly done with it until Warlords comes out and going back to an almost retro phase of playing text MUDs (see my sig if you care).
I do think wow brought the genre to life, but the issue is that they failed to invest to continue to drive their product forward, they sucked away gross profits and stagnated. E.g if at tbx they had 9 mil subs and wotlk - start Cata they had twelve, why did thru not pump in those hundreds of £ to expand the game twice fold every year instead of 5 zones every 2 years.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
They basically set the bench map for content release per £ spent to the Lowry in the genre - as the market leader. That's not leading a genre its feeding off it.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
A big LOL at all the poeple trying to claim that the biggest factor in WoW's initial and continued success was "timing", and not the fact that it was the most polished, fun, and everything it did, it did better than its compitetion...
Except that it didn't...
It had a piss poor crafting.
It's raid system was basically a simple versions of EQ's, and EQ didn't have a great raid system.
It's dungeons were tiny and linear.
It's class system was as shallow as they could possibly be.
The graphics were really really outdated.
The PvP system was a joke.
What it did well, was hold the players hand and guide them to level cap. It was dumbed down enough so that people who had never played an MMO couldn't possibly fail while playing it. It was all covered in bubble wrap and safety edges, no risks. And because of that, the RTS and casual gaming fans that tried it as their first MMO, went and talked about it to all their other non MMO gamers.
It's design was just a simple EQ design, and lots of polish. No original ideas or individual parts that were done better than anyone else. Hell it couldn't even be called a "total package". It lacked so many systems, some of which are just NOW being added (Housing)
I hav seen you guys' posts. WOW is quite old now. And many guys say MOP is the worst expansion in WOW's history. Some people say the game is old, the pictures don't present perfect visual effects as new games(though I think it isok under highest definition), the gameplay was changed worser and worser etc..
However, I start playing WOW since 2009. And I don't hav many complaints about this game. I only think it's quite busy and tired to spend 40+ hours a week to farm and raid, that is, repeating the same things. If it kills, it kills time.but sometime I feel tired and it really kill time. When I finish a series of daily quests and raids, I find it is almost midnight then haha
A big LOL at all the poeple trying to claim that the biggest factor in WoW's initial and continued success was "timing", and not the fact that it was the most polished, fun, and everything it did, it did better than its compitetion...
Except that it didn't...
It had a piss poor crafting.
It's raid system was basically a simple versions of EQ's, and EQ didn't have a great raid system.
It's dungeons were tiny and linear.
It's class system was as shallow as they could possibly be.
The graphics were really really outdated.
The PvP system was a joke.
What it did well, was hold the players hand and guide them to level cap. It was dumbed down enough so that people who had never played an MMO couldn't possibly fail while playing it. It was all covered in bubble wrap and safety edges, no risks. And because of that, the RTS and casual gaming fans that tried it as their first MMO, went and talked about it to all their other non MMO gamers.
It's design was just a simple EQ design, and lots of polish. No original ideas or individual parts that were done better than anyone else. Hell it couldn't even be called a "total package". It lacked so many systems, some of which are just NOW being added (Housing)
Btw check the added patches over time and see how it was WoW in release. Imho no other IP could stand a chance, even back then, releasing a so much "naked" game except WoW.
"Timing" and "Advertising" would certainly explain getting word out about WoW, but it doesn't explain why there are seven million people playing the game ten years later. It doesn't explain the people I've talked to who have started playing WoW recently.
But of course there's the idea that WoW killed everything, when there is plenty of evidence to show the opposite. Ignoring WoW, there are more MMORPG players than there have ever been and there is more money flowing into and through the genre than there has ever been. There are more games and more choices now than there have ever been as well.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
"Timing" and "Advertising" would certainly explain getting word out about WoW, but it doesn't explain why there are seven million people playing the game ten years later. It doesn't explain the people I've talked to who have started playing WoW recently.
Yes, it does. That was ALREADY explained, but I'll break it down for you again.
You always remember your first MMO. And for most people, that was WoW, because it was the big mainstream big budget well advertised MMO. So years later, after 9 years of the MMO dark age with shitty MMOs being released by shitty publishers, people trickle back to the game that gave them their first "MMO magic" and that's WoW.
For any new people coming into the genre, they're going to try WoW because it is THE MMO. It's the landmark. The mainstream name that even my mom has heard of.
Nostalgia and brand name recognition is a powerful thing. Even though DAoC is a pile of trash now, I still go back to check it now and then because it was my first. Now multiply that by 10 million.
Nostalgia and brand name recognition is a powerful thing. Even though DAoC is a pile of trash now, I still go back to check it now and then because it was my first. Now multiply that by 10 million.
Not for me. My first MMO (not counting telnet game kingdom of drakkar) is UO beta, and i still think it is an awful game.
Nostalgia and brand name recognition is a powerful thing. Even though DAoC is a pile of trash now, I still go back to check it now and then because it was my first. Now multiply that by 10 million.
Not for me. My first MMO (not counting telnet game kingdom of drakkar) is UO beta, and i still think it is an awful game.
Yes, we know. You've told us your story 5 billion times in every thread you attempt to derail.
Comments
@OP
I don't know where you get that AA is the game people are looking for, I mean really forced PVP that's what people are looking for?
I can tell you right now this game is gonna be Niche but the way your making it sound it's gonna be the next WOW killer I can tell you right now that's not gonna happen not even close......
How many games have to come out with forced PVP before people realize that's not what everyone wants, just look at sub #'s for them.
Now for the people who do like that kind of thing AA is the game for them, but to make broad sweeping generalizations about people and say this is what we all want is crazy and this is coming from someone who actually likes PVP........
Wait ,,,what did Blizzard do that was original in WoW?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
World of Warcraft actually did the exact opposite and injected so much money into this industry that we are able to see games like Guild Wars 2, Wildstar, Firefall, Archeage, TERA, Elder Scrolls, SWTOR and all the other games come to production. World of Warcraft allowed many developers and aspiring programmers realize their dream by providing jobs and gave them a chacne to work on a huge library of MMO games you see available today. Without World of Warcraft, gaming would probably not be as well received to the general public. Whether the new generation of MMOs are of good quality is debatable, however, it opened the doors for many types of people to get into the industry. Ultimately, I feel that game designers and creative directors are to blame for the lack of ability to produce fun and interactive mini-games within MMOs. These people who are supposedly "game designers" or "creative directors" aren't really that unique since they're not "true" MMO gamers. They just implement the tried and true mechanics that WoW features and slap on some graphics and call it a day. They crunch the numbers to make sure the game is profitable for X amount of months and provide a contingency plan if it fails.
While I'm generalizing a lot of my points, I'm sure there are exceptions.
Nothing. WoW didn't no anything original. It was a casual clone of EverQuest, more or less. And under its shadow the industry has suffered. Now MMOs are the laughing stock of the gaming industry, when in the past they were the bright hope of its future.
MMOs are like this :
do step 1
do step 2
do step 3
Que up for a Dungeon to play with random people
come out of a dungeon
do step 4
do step 5
do step 6
do step 7
do step 8
Que up for another Dungeon with random people
come out of dungeon
do step 9
do step 10
thats a critique of any mmo with a dungeon finder - more than anything else
EQ2 fan sites
A big LOL at all the poeple trying to claim that the biggest factor in WoW's initial and continued success was "timing", and not the fact that it was the most polished, fun, and everything it did, it did better than its compitetion...
That's kinda what I said earlier on in the thread. It's easy to disparage the game as having killed off the rest of the genre but, to quote myself, I think people are confusing genre-killing with genre-defining given that 12 MILLION people all seemed to think that WoW was better than the other games it sucked subscribers/players from.
I'm mostly done with it until Warlords comes out and going back to an almost retro phase of playing text MUDs (see my sig if you care).
8 years and counting addicted to
Avalon: The Legend Lives - the longest running online RPG in history
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Except that it didn't...
It had a piss poor crafting.
It's raid system was basically a simple versions of EQ's, and EQ didn't have a great raid system.
It's dungeons were tiny and linear.
It's class system was as shallow as they could possibly be.
The graphics were really really outdated.
The PvP system was a joke.
What it did well, was hold the players hand and guide them to level cap. It was dumbed down enough so that people who had never played an MMO couldn't possibly fail while playing it. It was all covered in bubble wrap and safety edges, no risks. And because of that, the RTS and casual gaming fans that tried it as their first MMO, went and talked about it to all their other non MMO gamers.
It's design was just a simple EQ design, and lots of polish. No original ideas or individual parts that were done better than anyone else. Hell it couldn't even be called a "total package". It lacked so many systems, some of which are just NOW being added (Housing)
I hav seen you guys' posts. WOW is quite old now. And many guys say MOP is the worst expansion in WOW's history. Some people say the game is old, the pictures don't present perfect visual effects as new games(though I think it isok under highest definition), the gameplay was changed worser and worser etc..
However, I start playing WOW since 2009. And I don't hav many complaints about this game. I only think it's quite busy and tired to spend 40+ hours a week to farm and raid, that is, repeating the same things. If it kills, it kills time.but sometime I feel tired and it really kill time. When I finish a series of daily quests and raids, I find it is almost midnight then haha
Btw check the added patches over time and see how it was WoW in release. Imho no other IP could stand a chance, even back then, releasing a so much "naked" game except WoW.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Patches
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1
Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
"Timing" and "Advertising" would certainly explain getting word out about WoW, but it doesn't explain why there are seven million people playing the game ten years later. It doesn't explain the people I've talked to who have started playing WoW recently.
But of course there's the idea that WoW killed everything, when there is plenty of evidence to show the opposite. Ignoring WoW, there are more MMORPG players than there have ever been and there is more money flowing into and through the genre than there has ever been. There are more games and more choices now than there have ever been as well.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Yes, it does. That was ALREADY explained, but I'll break it down for you again.
You always remember your first MMO. And for most people, that was WoW, because it was the big mainstream big budget well advertised MMO. So years later, after 9 years of the MMO dark age with shitty MMOs being released by shitty publishers, people trickle back to the game that gave them their first "MMO magic" and that's WoW.
For any new people coming into the genre, they're going to try WoW because it is THE MMO. It's the landmark. The mainstream name that even my mom has heard of.
Nostalgia and brand name recognition is a powerful thing. Even though DAoC is a pile of trash now, I still go back to check it now and then because it was my first. Now multiply that by 10 million.
Not for me. My first MMO (not counting telnet game kingdom of drakkar) is UO beta, and i still think it is an awful game.
Yes, we know. You've told us your story 5 billion times in every thread you attempt to derail.