I only speak for myself here but I bet plenty of others feels the same way.
I made a topic awhile back that plenty of MMOs are around but you/we havent found a home, well my point with this thread are, sadly is we cant find a home for the simple reason we cant and will never find that first feeling, you can argue how much you like how good DAOC were, or vanilla WoW, or AO, or AC, the list can go on, the point is we played those games back then, not now, back when most of us were still in school or early 20s, a new world of gaming dragged us in and we delved deep into it.
Today many of us have played and tried plenty of MMOs over the years and that little special spark hasent been there, sure the games were good nothing special really just fine good ol gameplay with some odd choices here and there and some bugs but overall they were ok, but the spark wasent there, the feeling damn this game is for me, I will play this for years and you STICK it for years hasent been there, the sparkle are gone and you still looking for that special snowflake.
So the point with this rambling are, we have played it all, done that, been there, what is it for us to look foward to besides the holodecks?
So tough luck finding your rainbow.
Either you have a split personality or a strange definition of "myself".
I've been playing MMOs for a good while now.
- I'm not looking to 'rekindle that old feeling' - Er, I am, a sense of wonder at something new, last felt with EVE.
- I'm not looking for a dressed up version of my first MMO - I would love a dressed up version of DAOC, been waiting for it for years in fact.
- I am finding good gameplay in several of the MMOs - Yep, as long as they were created back on 2003 or earlier I would agree, modern MMO's, not so much.
- Despite having spent a few years in several MMOs, I have never before nor do I ever have 'play this for years to come' as a focus or criteria for choosing an MMO. - Actually a key criteria, I realize that I could find most MMO's fun for a a month or 3, if so, my rule is to pass on them.
- I am having a lot of fun in several MMOs. - Never, there can be only one (at a time)
And it's a safe bet there are millions others like me. (well it's a safe bet there's at least a small handful of people still like me)
Remember John Cusack in Better Off Dead? His pining for his lost love and his inability to move on? The self-inflicted misery? That's YOU. But it's worse, because it isn't even over a hot girl... it's over a video game, man. - Don't think I watched that movie, doesn't sound like something I would enjoy. Now, if we're talking about Independence Day 2, now there's something to look forward to. (yes, I actually like the first one)
See, Day meet Night. Your team numbers in the millions, but I think you'd be surprised how many people are somewhat like me, looking for a return of some of the old school mechanics that made those titles fun for us. (in fact, I played with an entire server of them for most of last year, DAOC circa 2003 baby)
I wouldn't say we are wallowing in our misery, (OK, some are), I know in my case I play EVE, and some older titles, every now and then delve into the new games such as ESO or AA just to test the waters but so far, nothing has grabbed my attention long term.
But I have hope, I'm in on the KS for CU, and will give some of the new titles such as BD, Repop, SC and the like a try when ready. Always a chance one of them will be the next new MMORPG for me, time will tell.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I only speak for myself here but I bet plenty of others feels the same way.
I made a topic awhile back that plenty of MMOs are around but you/we havent found a home, well my point with this thread are, sadly is we cant find a home for the simple reason we cant and will never find that first feeling, you can argue how much you like how good DAOC were, or vanilla WoW, or AO, or AC, the list can go on, the point is we played those games back then, not now, back when most of us were still in school or early 20s, a new world of gaming dragged us in and we delved deep into it.
Today many of us have played and tried plenty of MMOs over the years and that little special spark hasent been there, sure the games were good nothing special really just fine good ol gameplay with some odd choices here and there and some bugs but overall they were ok, but the spark wasent there, the feeling damn this game is for me, I will play this for years and you STICK it for years hasent been there, the sparkle are gone and you still looking for that special snowflake.
So the point with this rambling are, we have played it all, done that, been there, what is it for us to look foward to besides the holodecks?
So tough luck finding your rainbow.
Either you have a split personality or a strange definition of "myself".
I've been playing MMOs for a good while now.
- I'm not looking to 'rekindle that old feeling' - Er, I am, a sense of wonder at something new, last felt with EVE.
- I'm not looking for a dressed up version of my first MMO - I would love a dressed up version of DAOC, been waiting for it for years in fact.
- I am finding good gameplay in several of the MMOs - Yep, as long as they were created back on 2003 or earlier I would agree, modern MMO's, not so much.
- Despite having spent a few years in several MMOs, I have never before nor do I ever have 'play this for years to come' as a focus or criteria for choosing an MMO. - Actually a key criteria, I realize that I could find most MMO's fun for a a month or 3, if so, my rule is to pass on them.
- I am having a lot of fun in several MMOs. - Never, there can be only one (at a time)
And it's a safe bet there are millions others like me. (well it's a safe bet there's at least a small handful of people still like me)
Remember John Cusack in Better Off Dead? His pining for his lost love and his inability to move on? The self-inflicted misery? That's YOU. But it's worse, because it isn't even over a hot girl... it's over a video game, man. - Don't think I watched that movie, doesn't sound like something I would enjoy. Now, if we're talking about Independence Day 2, now there's something to look forward to. (yes, I actually like the first one)
See, Day meet Night. Your team numbers in the millions, but I think you'd be surprised how many people are somewhat like me, looking for a return of some of the old school mechanics that made those titles fun for us. (in fact, I played with an entire server of them for most of last year, DAOC circa 2003 baby)
I wouldn't say we are wallowing in our misery, (OK, some are), I know in my case I play EVE, and some older titles, every now and then delve into the new games such as ESO or AA just to test the waters but so far, nothing has grabbed my attention long term.
But I have hope, I'm in on the KS for CU, and will give some of the new titles such as BD, Repop, SC and the like a try when ready. Always a chance one of them will be the next new MMORPG for me, time will tell.
Sure thing. Show me the numbers. That aside, my post was to explain how I am not part of "we", nor are many others so it would be best not to speak for us. If you're part of his "we" that's fine. No effort was made to take that away from you.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
'there are Modern MMO out there that offer great gathering, great open worlds, great questing, and a couple that offer them in 1 game. All great old school elements. But those people who hanker for old school, quit these games and proclaim they hate grinding, they hate questing, they demand flying. In short they want what they don't want??
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Many of us here would love to continue. But now we have :
Lobby games to que for random groups
Carrot on a stick games, where the developers control your game play. Do step 1,2,3 in order
MMOs are too easy, everyone solos
Less than 30 days of content
F2P crap
Dynamic Events, where you don't know anyone. Kill stuff and leave.
So people are trying to hang in there as hard as they can !
I don't mind the dynamic events at all, the quest based games have exactly the same problem with people not knowing eachothers in the open world content, the only difference is that you at least work together with others in DEs while in quests you do them solo and others are just a bother.
The problem is more that the games are so easy that you don't need others until you reach the endgame, and there it shows that PUGing is many times worse than they ever was in EQ since most people havn't learned their classes and just soloed up.
And you also level so fast that all gear besides the endgame gear is something you grab and throw away an hour later since you leveled over it, there is no point in doing dungeons then, particularly since you actually level faster by soloing.
But my main problem with MMOs in general is that the devs still seems to think they are making a game where leveling is 90% of the game so 90% is open world content. Too bad you pass that in 3 weeks and need to stay the rest of the time you play in the last 10% of the content. That is the reason you say there is 30 days content, the games have plenty of content, it is just that it turns grey very fast.
The problem is not games where there is huge investment in a big open world - its games that don't scale players to the world while at same time offering ever increasing power levels - a child can see the issue right there, and I think devs can do, but some devs value the addictive nature of ever increasing level design - its cheap and nasty in effect.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Can't go to jail over it (Bar Fights/DWI's) and wont produce (Alimony/Child Support)payments.
Wisdom here sir...
/nods wisdom indeed...
Alyn
I'll second that.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The problem is greed, it's the same problem with just about everything in the world today.
I'm not talking about developers or players, I'm talking corporate suits that sit at the top of the chain and eat up 90% of the profit while putting nothing back into the game.
I guarantee you that Guild Wars 2 has made 10x more money than they've ever put back into their game or their staff. Their developers quit because their severely underpaid and the players quit because the game is underdeveloped. If that game has a 10x larger budget, developers wouldn't be quitting nor would players.
It's corporate greed that has put out the flame. Fifteen years ago, when you purchased a $60 expansion, you got a $60 expansion. Now when you purchase a $60 expansion, you get a $10 expansion with the option of $200 worth of DLC that used to be a part of the $60 expansion. And the developer just gets laid off when his/her job is done.
I only speak for myself here but I bet plenty of others feels the same way.
I made a topic awhile back that plenty of MMOs are around but you/we havent found a home, well my point with this thread are, sadly is we cant find a home for the simple reason we cant and will never find that first feeling, you can argue how much you like how good DAOC were, or vanilla WoW, or AO, or AC, the list can go on, the point is we played those games back then, not now, back when most of us were still in school or early 20s, a new world of gaming dragged us in and we delved deep into it.
Today many of us have played and tried plenty of MMOs over the years and that little special spark hasent been there, sure the games were good nothing special really just fine good ol gameplay with some odd choices here and there and some bugs but overall they were ok, but the spark wasent there, the feeling damn this game is for me, I will play this for years and you STICK it for years hasent been there, the sparkle are gone and you still looking for that special snowflake.
So the point with this rambling are, we have played it all, done that, been there, what is it for us to look foward to besides the holodecks?
So tough luck finding your rainbow.
I used to be a drug addict. That special feeling you got when you tried Heroin, Cocain and other hard drugs never came back., but I keept searching for it for years. The same systems in the human brain applies to this case I belive. Drugs and MMO gameing have many similarities. There is no cure for this, and there is no way to work around it. Its just how the brain works. I actually dont think this have anything to do with the games themselfs.
The advent of high speed internet combined with endless Youtube videos and Twitch streams, year long promotional alphas and betas which lead to intense datamining and theorycrafting beforehand practically makes it impossible to get that "sparkle" again.
I was hyped about Archeage 2 years ago but after all this time I feel like I have already seen everything the game has to offer without ever actually playing it. I couldn't bring myself to put in more than a few hours in the beta.
When we got an expansion in DAoC, we knew very little beforehand. We went out and bought the retail box and then figured stuff out on launch day. It took longer but it was much more fullfilling.
And yes, you can try to avoid ALL information about an upcoming mmo, but good luck with that.
There is a lot more to this topic and most of it has already been mentioned, but it's just really tough to get attached to a game when there is already so much doom and gloom surrounding it even before release. Look at Wildstar or Elder Scrolls Online and most recently ArcheAge.
I am a backer of both Camelot Unchained and Star Citizen and while both of these games hit my interests hard I am already noticing fatigue and there is still at least 2 years of development to go for both.
I am consciously not getting into monetization and game design, as much as a disagree with the trends in both, I still think that overexposure, over-analysis and marketing has killed that sparkle the most.
Many of us here would love to continue. But now we have :
Lobby games to que for random groups
Carrot on a stick games, where the developers control your game play. Do step 1,2,3 in order
MMOs are too easy, everyone solos
Less than 30 days of content
F2P crap
Dynamic Events, where you don't know anyone. Kill stuff and leave.
So people are trying to hang in there as hard as they can !
This exactly. I can't stand these player-shamers who blame the patient community for the current MMO crisis when it's nothing more than terrible games that is causing this. As a company, what do you expect when you fall into the lures of capitalism, merely use games as a means of generating revenue, copy more successful game designs, and branch out with nothing novel or fantastic about your own product? Indeed, you're simply going to fail, as you've become no artist but a business.
MMORPGs, and games in general, are nothing if not art. They must be developed by talented artists, people who actually have the romantic vision to create things like these excellent paintings that we see, which I know I could never draw, but which I know some genius is capable of producing. And why are MMORPGs excused from being subjected to the same scrutiny as other art? If a big company utilized processing to automatically generate pieces of art, what good would there be in them? It would be useless to us: none of this was the excellent vision of the gifted artist.
The MMORPG must be treated as functioning art. It must be developed by gifted artists, otherwise it will just be a product sold on a market: a good to be consumed; this is counterproductive to the real intent of an MMORPG, which is to create a virtual, living, breathing world in which we actually feel immersed.
The problem is not he players but the games. I know precisely what kind of game I would like to play and have talked about it at length. But I am not an artist, and cannot possibly develop an MMORPG: it is the prerogative of the gifted artist, not the consumer of art, to push the boundaries of art and keep developing anew.
Nah.. 20 years from now we will have VR MMOs with actually decent AI that will make MMOS the biggest thing in gaming. You just need to have some patience.
The big first move from text muds -> 3D MMO is the first big transition but the move from 3DMMO (Static world) to a VR Dynamic world is going to be even bigger.
I predict a future where we will have calls for regulation against VR MMOs because they are too addictive..
What happened was years ago we were served "succulent prime rib" and loved it, and ever since only got "tough-as-shoe-leather-sirloin." We complained for years we wanted the former, and again and again only got the latter, while being told we had "lost our taste for steak".
This is what's going on in the MMO world. But... things are changing. EQ Next and Black Desert are on the way.
Getting a 2014 burger for the price of a 1999 steak? Sounds about right.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by WaldoCorn I agree to a degree.For me it is still better than Bars and Women.Can't go to jail over it (Bar Fights/DWI's) and wont produce (Alimony/Child Support)payments.
Just had a thought while reading a reply to this...
Even "picking up chicks" has gotten into "easy mode", these days If lucky, chicks will pick *you* up
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by Loktofeit Originally posted by ReallyNow10Have we "lost the sparkle"?NOWhat happened was years ago we were served "succulent prime rib" and loved it, and ever since only got "tough-as-shoe-leather-sirloin." We complained for years we wanted the former, and again and again only got the latter, while being told we had "lost our taste for steak".This is what's going on in the MMO world. But... things are changing. EQ Next and Black Desert are on the way.
Getting a 2014 burger for the price of a 1999 steak? Sounds about right.
Great posts, both of you. Thanks for the hamburger link Lok! One could argue we don't want to pay steak prices, so we are offered hamburger. But F2P costs a great many people much more than the price of steak. I would happily pay steak price subscriptions; but not interested in F2P.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
MMORPGSs as we knew them have been dead for some years now, and will stay that way for a long, long time. Maybe forever. As someone said, our refugee are board games a P&P RP games. Nothing to do here anymore.
I think our next sparkle might be virtual reality. Being inside the game world. For me, my sparkle started in 2006 when I discovered WoW. Before I started playing WoW, I never knew I could play a video game with thousands of others in a seamless world. When I first stepped into Azeroth, I saw other players running around in the starting area and I was like this is freaking awsome.
Then I opened up the world map and said "wow, I get to explore all this," And WoW being a fantasy game, that was just icing on the cake, as fantasy is my favorite theme.
Originally posted by ReallyNow10Have we "lost the sparkle"?NOWhat happened was years ago we were served "succulent prime rib" and loved it, and ever since only got "tough-as-shoe-leather-sirloin." We complained for years we wanted the former, and again and again only got the latter, while being told we had "lost our taste for steak".This is what's going on in the MMO world. But... things are changing. EQ Next and Black Desert are on the way.
Getting a 2014 burger for the price of a 1999 steak? Sounds about right.
Great posts, both of you. Thanks for the hamburger link Lok! One could argue we don't want to pay steak prices, so we are offered hamburger. But F2P costs a great many people much more than the price of steak. I would happily pay steak price subscriptions; but not interested in F2P.
People say this all the time, but that population is even smaller than the niche market hard core gamers make up.
What game, that exists today, right this very minute, that is released and has a subscription model is worth $30 a month to play? If you can't name one, then the promise of paying more, is moot because no such game exists. We're not talking future here. We're not talking altering an existing title to suit your needs. As-is buddy. As it is this very second.
Originally posted by Pepeq What game, that exists today, right this very minute, that is released and has a subscription model is worth $30 a month to play? If you can't name one, then the promise of paying more, is moot because no such game exists. We're not talking future here. We're not talking altering an existing title to suit your needs. As-is buddy. As it is this very second.
Since there are no MMOs out today that many players would NOT pay a sub for, that means these players would NEVER pay a sub for a great MMO?
I have money for gaming. I'm willing to pay $15-50 each month for a great game that I could spend years in. Just because no MMO exists NOW that I would do so does NOT mean I would never again pay a sub.
I do not follow the logic here...
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Couldn't it just be the fact that MMORPG devs are pandering to a wider audience? There have been several articles on the issue, one being on the escapist recently (a more general look at the industry in that particular instance).
It comes down to this: These games don't click because so much of content is devoted to the interests of two other groups outside mainstream gamers. The general response, which we can point to on any MMORPG forum, is a mixture of apathy and anger. Casuals say content is too difficult, hardcore gamers complain the content is too easy, and the mainstream gamers are stuck square in the middle. Its also why the best of MMORPGs released in recent memory never rank a 5/5 on reviews. Trying to hit all those audiences with their content makes it impossible for the game to completely hit the mark with any player, let alone an honest reviewer.
I don't think people have lost their interest in these games. I think the industry has failed to keep its integrity when making them. It's difficult to justify a monthly subscription that continues funding the development of content not targeting the paying player.
Originally posted by Arclan Originally posted by Loktofeit Originally posted by ReallyNow10Have we "lost the sparkle"?NOWhat happened was years ago we were served "succulent prime rib" and loved it, and ever since only got "tough-as-shoe-leather-sirloin." We complained for years we wanted the former, and again and again only got the latter, while being told we had "lost our taste for steak".This is what's going on in the MMO world. But... things are changing. EQ Next and Black Desert are on the way.
Getting a 2014 burger for the price of a 1999 steak? Sounds about right.
Great posts, both of you. Thanks for the hamburger link Lok! One could argue we don't want to pay steak prices, so we are offered hamburger. But F2P costs a great many people much more than the price of steak. I would happily pay steak price subscriptions; but not interested in F2P.
People say this all the time, but that population is even smaller than the niche market hard core gamers make up.
What game, that exists today, right this very minute, that is released and has a subscription model is worth $30 a month to play? If you can't name one, then the promise of paying more, is moot because no such game exists. We're not talking future here. We're not talking altering an existing title to suit your needs. As-is buddy. As it is this very second.
EVE is worth $30, in fact I pay $45 so I can train and fly 3 pilots, and at times have paid $60 a month.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
See, Day meet Night. Your team numbers in the millions, but I think you'd be surprised how many people are somewhat like me, looking for a return of some of the old school mechanics that made those titles fun for us. (in fact, I played with an entire server of them for most of last year, DAOC circa 2003 baby)
I wouldn't say we are wallowing in our misery, (OK, some are), I know in my case I play EVE, and some older titles, every now and then delve into the new games such as ESO or AA just to test the waters but so far, nothing has grabbed my attention long term.
But I have hope, I'm in on the KS for CU, and will give some of the new titles such as BD, Repop, SC and the like a try when ready. Always a chance one of them will be the next new MMORPG for me, time will tell.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Sure thing. Show me the numbers. That aside, my post was to explain how I am not part of "we", nor are many others so it would be best not to speak for us. If you're part of his "we" that's fine. No effort was made to take that away from you.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Wisdom here sir...
/nods wisdom indeed...
Alyn
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I don't mind the dynamic events at all, the quest based games have exactly the same problem with people not knowing eachothers in the open world content, the only difference is that you at least work together with others in DEs while in quests you do them solo and others are just a bother.
The problem is more that the games are so easy that you don't need others until you reach the endgame, and there it shows that PUGing is many times worse than they ever was in EQ since most people havn't learned their classes and just soloed up.
And you also level so fast that all gear besides the endgame gear is something you grab and throw away an hour later since you leveled over it, there is no point in doing dungeons then, particularly since you actually level faster by soloing.
But my main problem with MMOs in general is that the devs still seems to think they are making a game where leveling is 90% of the game so 90% is open world content. Too bad you pass that in 3 weeks and need to stay the rest of the time you play in the last 10% of the content. That is the reason you say there is 30 days content, the games have plenty of content, it is just that it turns grey very fast.
The last thing is frankly just bad game design.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I'll second that.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I'm not talking about developers or players, I'm talking corporate suits that sit at the top of the chain and eat up 90% of the profit while putting nothing back into the game.
I guarantee you that Guild Wars 2 has made 10x more money than they've ever put back into their game or their staff. Their developers quit because their severely underpaid and the players quit because the game is underdeveloped. If that game has a 10x larger budget, developers wouldn't be quitting nor would players.
It's corporate greed that has put out the flame. Fifteen years ago, when you purchased a $60 expansion, you got a $60 expansion. Now when you purchase a $60 expansion, you get a $10 expansion with the option of $200 worth of DLC that used to be a part of the $60 expansion. And the developer just gets laid off when his/her job is done.
I used to be a drug addict. That special feeling you got when you tried Heroin, Cocain and other hard drugs never came back., but I keept searching for it for years. The same systems in the human brain applies to this case I belive. Drugs and MMO gameing have many similarities. There is no cure for this, and there is no way to work around it. Its just how the brain works. I actually dont think this have anything to do with the games themselfs.
Close enough to how I feel.
The advent of high speed internet combined with endless Youtube videos and Twitch streams, year long promotional alphas and betas which lead to intense datamining and theorycrafting beforehand practically makes it impossible to get that "sparkle" again.
I was hyped about Archeage 2 years ago but after all this time I feel like I have already seen everything the game has to offer without ever actually playing it. I couldn't bring myself to put in more than a few hours in the beta.
When we got an expansion in DAoC, we knew very little beforehand. We went out and bought the retail box and then figured stuff out on launch day. It took longer but it was much more fullfilling.
And yes, you can try to avoid ALL information about an upcoming mmo, but good luck with that.
There is a lot more to this topic and most of it has already been mentioned, but it's just really tough to get attached to a game when there is already so much doom and gloom surrounding it even before release. Look at Wildstar or Elder Scrolls Online and most recently ArcheAge.
I am a backer of both Camelot Unchained and Star Citizen and while both of these games hit my interests hard I am already noticing fatigue and there is still at least 2 years of development to go for both.
I am consciously not getting into monetization and game design, as much as a disagree with the trends in both, I still think that overexposure, over-analysis and marketing has killed that sparkle the most.
This exactly. I can't stand these player-shamers who blame the patient community for the current MMO crisis when it's nothing more than terrible games that is causing this. As a company, what do you expect when you fall into the lures of capitalism, merely use games as a means of generating revenue, copy more successful game designs, and branch out with nothing novel or fantastic about your own product? Indeed, you're simply going to fail, as you've become no artist but a business.
MMORPGs, and games in general, are nothing if not art. They must be developed by talented artists, people who actually have the romantic vision to create things like these excellent paintings that we see, which I know I could never draw, but which I know some genius is capable of producing. And why are MMORPGs excused from being subjected to the same scrutiny as other art? If a big company utilized processing to automatically generate pieces of art, what good would there be in them? It would be useless to us: none of this was the excellent vision of the gifted artist.
The MMORPG must be treated as functioning art. It must be developed by gifted artists, otherwise it will just be a product sold on a market: a good to be consumed; this is counterproductive to the real intent of an MMORPG, which is to create a virtual, living, breathing world in which we actually feel immersed.
The problem is not he players but the games. I know precisely what kind of game I would like to play and have talked about it at length. But I am not an artist, and cannot possibly develop an MMORPG: it is the prerogative of the gifted artist, not the consumer of art, to push the boundaries of art and keep developing anew.
Nah.. 20 years from now we will have VR MMOs with actually decent AI that will make MMOS the biggest thing in gaming. You just need to have some patience.
The big first move from text muds -> 3D MMO is the first big transition but the move from 3DMMO (Static world) to a VR Dynamic world is going to be even bigger.
I predict a future where we will have calls for regulation against VR MMOs because they are too addictive..
Getting a 2014 burger for the price of a 1999 steak? Sounds about right.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Even "picking up chicks" has gotten into "easy mode", these days
If lucky, chicks will pick *you* up 
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
This.
If only Dark Souls was an MMO....
That game makes you feel fear lol.
I am married. So "easy mode" for me every night.
Great posts, both of you. Thanks for the hamburger link Lok! One could argue we don't want to pay steak prices, so we are offered hamburger. But F2P costs a great many people much more than the price of steak. I would happily pay steak price subscriptions; but not interested in F2P.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
MMORPGSs as we knew them have been dead for some years now, and will stay that way for a long, long time. Maybe forever. As someone said, our refugee are board games a P&P RP games. Nothing to do here anymore.
EQ Next? LOL
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
I think our next sparkle might be virtual reality. Being inside the game world. For me, my sparkle started in 2006 when I discovered WoW. Before I started playing WoW, I never knew I could play a video game with thousands of others in a seamless world. When I first stepped into Azeroth, I saw other players running around in the starting area and I was like this is freaking awsome.
Then I opened up the world map and said "wow, I get to explore all this," And WoW being a fantasy game, that was just icing on the cake, as fantasy is my favorite theme.
People say this all the time, but that population is even smaller than the niche market hard core gamers make up.
What game, that exists today, right this very minute, that is released and has a subscription model is worth $30 a month to play? If you can't name one, then the promise of paying more, is moot because no such game exists. We're not talking future here. We're not talking altering an existing title to suit your needs. As-is buddy. As it is this very second.
Since there are no MMOs out today that many players would NOT pay a sub for, that means these players would NEVER pay a sub for a great MMO?
I have money for gaming. I'm willing to pay $15-50 each month for a great game that I could spend years in. Just because no MMO exists NOW that I would do so does NOT mean I would never again pay a sub.
I do not follow the logic here...
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Couldn't it just be the fact that MMORPG devs are pandering to a wider audience? There have been several articles on the issue, one being on the escapist recently (a more general look at the industry in that particular instance).
It comes down to this: These games don't click because so much of content is devoted to the interests of two other groups outside mainstream gamers. The general response, which we can point to on any MMORPG forum, is a mixture of apathy and anger. Casuals say content is too difficult, hardcore gamers complain the content is too easy, and the mainstream gamers are stuck square in the middle. Its also why the best of MMORPGs released in recent memory never rank a 5/5 on reviews. Trying to hit all those audiences with their content makes it impossible for the game to completely hit the mark with any player, let alone an honest reviewer.
I don't think people have lost their interest in these games. I think the industry has failed to keep its integrity when making them. It's difficult to justify a monthly subscription that continues funding the development of content not targeting the paying player.
Great posts, both of you. Thanks for the hamburger link Lok! One could argue we don't want to pay steak prices, so we are offered hamburger. But F2P costs a great many people much more than the price of steak. I would happily pay steak price subscriptions; but not interested in F2P.
People say this all the time, but that population is even smaller than the niche market hard core gamers make up.
What game, that exists today, right this very minute, that is released and has a subscription model is worth $30 a month to play? If you can't name one, then the promise of paying more, is moot because no such game exists. We're not talking future here. We're not talking altering an existing title to suit your needs. As-is buddy. As it is this very second.
EVE is worth $30, in fact I pay $45 so I can train and fly 3 pilots, and at times have paid $60 a month."True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon