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Is there any non "pay for advantage" MMORPG left ?
kolpo
Member UncommonPosts: 30
It begun with a few free to play MMORPG's, but now seems every big MMORPG to have some way to pay for advantage. To let out of game wealth even influence a single pixel in an MMORPG completely and utterly corrupts the role-playing world in my view.
Yet does every big MMORPG company seem to be doing this, some go even father and even allow in game stats and items to be bought, but the true corruption already begins the moment cosmetic items can be bought. Old UO had a tailoring skill that allowed player to invest IN GAME time and resource in cosmetic items, this enchants the role playing world. It was a fun role for people to play. If you wanted a special mount in UO could you train your taming skill and get it with a lot of IN GAME effort. SWG had skills like this too.
But now seem quite all MMORPG's to prefer a cash shop over adjusting subscription prices to inflation. I want a MMORPG to be another world and not just a real wealth based status symbol. In game wealth, status and looks should be completely separated from the real world, all people who pay the subscription should have EXACTLY the same opportunities in game, even to the last pixel of their looks.
But I guess I'm alone in this opinion because quite all MMORPG's are moving in the pay for advantage direction. Has any big MMOPRG avoided this "pay for advantage" corruption or is the age of non corrupt MMOPRG's definitely over?
Comments
You're not alone. You're just a fickle minority that never gathered in a single place long enough or in enough numbers to support the type of games you say you wanted them to build.
The cost of canceling your sub any time the smallest little thing was done to corrupt your perfect world is a genre that builds games for people who will play anything and spend money on it too.
There is only ONE developer left and i expect that to change with so much greed for money and that is Square Enix.
However remember this,there has been a problem for a very long time called RMT which is every bit as scandalous.Even when the devs do it in house ,it still ruins the game design and economy so it is NEVER a good thing.
That is the core problem with online gaming,players are not playing for fun but instead aim for that most elite gear.Some will earn it MANY will find an alternative way to get it.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
If I join a free to play MMO, I don't mind if paying customers look better than my character or have better toys, but I do mind if they can buy a better chance to win at PvP or do better at raiding.
http://gnomophobia.com
Rewind a handful of years here and you would have seen on this forum a small handful of posters, including me, arguing against the rise of the so called "F2P'" cash shop model and trying to explain what it meant to games and how it was anti-gamer.
We were attacked and met with hostility. We were called outdated and archaic, and told our time was up and we had better get used to the new way of things, because it was "inevitable" and unstoppable. We were told that no one wanted the level playing field of subs and that we might as well leave the genre.
Well, you know what? You all got what you argued so hard for.
Personally, I am done with it all and a part of me can't help but find where we are now a bit funny.
MAGA
Until I see some type of definition that is universally accepted of what it is that actually gives players an advantage, then I see no point in discussing this. If thats how you feel so be it.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
RMT wasn't problem here . It only problem are people try to use illegal ways like bots or hack accounts to get things to sell.
In the end , RMT have limit not like "cash shop pay for advantage".
If player don't play to get the item , there are no item to sell.
But "cash shop pay for advantage" is "rule breaker" , basically as long as you have money , you get all you want.
What difference ?
No limit money VS Limited items
No limit money VS no limit items
and playing pve solo is great for f2p .. cause whatever the whales spend on does not impact you.
My biggest complaint in MMOs over the years is the huge advantage they gave no life players with more free time to spend on these ganes than me, and was thrilled to play a title like EVE that leveled the playing field.
Like all things, cash shops can and frequently do take things too far, especially when they really start rewarding whale behavior, but otherwise I don't see most cash shops totally destroying the RPG elements of the game, heck that's usually done by the players in MMOs today.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Aion, truly free, better than Rift which sell gears in cash shop....
RIP Orc Choppa
In a PvE based MMO I don't really care if they have pay for advantage. It usually translates to shorter grinds but with the being hard ceilings on levels and such we all end up in the same place. If the grind gets to the extreme that you are forced to pay to cut it down it can get a bit gray.
More to your question, is there a game where money doesn't talk? You buy one account, I buy 3. I win. You are better off looking for a game where the community have similar views as you.
If its any consolation (it probably isn't) it looks like the F2P bubble is on the verge of bursting, its probably no small coincidence that the most successful games are still, those that incorporate P2P payment options, its kind of ironic, but it might just be that the rise of the F2P games is one of the reasons why World of Warcraft is still as popular as it is, and why games like Eve Online and FFXIV;ARR are doing as well as they are, whereas the history of F2P games tends at times, to be 'a bit messy' with often controversial arguments over how they handle in game monetisation. Maybe thats part of the reason why some of these cash shops that are in F2P games seem a bit OTT with their pricing and item listings, could be their just getting as much as they can before its too late.
I dunno Phry, not saying you are wrong, but I haven't played a sub game, since my first MMO, E and B. And even though I loved that game, I still stopped playing it once because I felt I was wasting money, when I wasn't playing it.
To me a sub is kind of like a golf membership. I like to play golf but if I were to go and get one, I would immediately be calculating how many games I had to play to get my money out of it. Which would probably mean I was playing a lot of golf when I didn't really want to. For me it just works better to pay as I play. Plus I get to play a lot of different courses instead of just one.
Believe it or not, for most people, I think there are many advantages to free to try games. As long as you aren't bothered by someone having an advantage over you in gameplay, (and this is not always the case but it certainly can be) then playing sub games makes no sense. The games you list as doing well are doing well because they are good games. Not so much payment model I think. Wildstar isn't faring so well in that regard.
Anyway it seems to me the reasons the vocal minority are not playing free to try games is the same reason I myself do not personally like sub games. We both just want different things for our money. And thats fine, both can coexist I think. I think what the majority of people want is choice, not just sub or nothing.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
I think WoW is the best. You can skip the leveling with money, but once you're max level the only available cash shop items are cosmetic. There isn't even any convenience items, just some cosmetic stuff.
They are selling level capped characters in cash shop. If this isnt P2W then what is?
Oke here is mine: A pay for advnatage system is a system where spending real money on an OFFICIAL way(except the subscription) gives you ANY kind of advantage, whatever that is stats/looks/titles/a single pixel. Black market sales that the developer fight don't count.
Now lets apply this definition to all games mentioned here:
Final Fantasy XIV: If this http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/678050-final-fantasy-xiv-online-a-realm-reborn/68829338 is true then is it clearly pay for advantage
ESO: Clearly pay for advantage http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/120478/steam-eso-cash-shop-up
Wildstar: You can earn in game money by buying CREDD with real money and selling it. Pay for advantage!
Everquest: They have krono that just works as Wildstars CREDD->pay for advantage
EVE: Same system as Wildstar and everquest->pay for advantage
EQ2: big cash shop with even stat items in it->pay for advantage
Rift: Cash shop that sells raid items->pay for advantage
DDO: They sell quest Xp elixirs what more do I need to say->pay for advantage
WoW: You can buy mount and level up->pay for advantage
Path of Exile: You can buy cosmetic stuff->pay for advantage
AoC: Found nonthing pay for advantage in this one yet
GW: You can buy skills with real money->pay for advantage
GW2: Has cosmetic and convenience items in cash shop->pay for advantage
TSW: sells cosmetic items in cash shop->pay for advantage
Aion: has cash shop with XP potions->pay for advantage
Tera: Cash shop with cosmetic items->pay for advantage
Anyone know AC(and maybe AC2) better to clarify if I'm right about that one?
Is any oft he above mentioned games are actually subscription based?
And let's leave out the games that can be played totally free but has an option to pay a subscription.
I don't know what people expect, the servers, development, employees aren't being paid by the red cross.
i agree on P2P games being unfair, for selling items within a cash shop if you can sell them within the game.
But i don't see how a F2P game (99%of the market) is supposed to stay alive if they can't sell stuff in their cash shop.
To sell these things, they must give some form of advantage, or else, who would buy them?
Sure it isn't for just staying alive, it's about making profit, but we all know, gaming industry has nothing to do with charity.
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At the other hand, i can't think of any P2P mmo without it, sadly.
But hey, i can play smite, which sells nothing in their cash shop that would give advantage over those who spend no real cash. Though it is a moba.
This! It is indeed mostly Eastern MMO's and all those so called "westernized" MMO's like the now coming ArcheAge that are bad.
TESO is really good, with no cash shop. So is FFXIV.
EverQuest II I keep coming back to as well. Their cash shop is pure cosmetic. And With SOE you get All Access for all their games for a single Subscription price.
Currently also play DCUO again and love it. Especially on the PS4. :-D