I edited my former post to clarify how it is used in my language. Also the underlined bit is actually using the verb sport as taking part in some game. Guess it is still used in my language like that
I didn't mean to obfuscate your post. I only wanted to point out that one can use different usages of a word in an attempt to 'prove' or 'disprove' a claim.
But language as it is, in constant fluctuation, these type of 'arguments' are usually bound to come up.
I edited my former post to clarify how it is used in my language. Also the underlined bit is actually using the verb sport as taking part in some game. Guess it is still used in my language like that
I didn't mean to obfuscate your post. I only wanted to point out that one can use different usages of a word in an attempt to 'prove' or 'disprove' a claim.
But language as it is, in constant fluctuation, these type of 'arguments' are usually bound to come up.
To be fair I only posted that definition just to show that there are so many definitions for that word floating around.
I suppose something we're all guilty of is thinking a sport has to be something only "world" class athletes can do but obviously that isn't true. Most people have played football or baseball at some time. It was still a sport when we did it. The setting and activity is what defined it as a sport over just going and kicking a ball around or throwing the football back and forth.
(I don't think I ever heard the term "motor sport" in USA but it's often used in Europe).
Well if you follow the logic here, any idiot could win formula one. All you do is just drive fast and have the best car. There's no actual skill involved that your avg driver doesn't have.
Soooo...what am I to think? Any idiot can do this with the best keyboard?
Accountants do that all the time. . .
Shoot, I just did it typing this post with BOTH my hands. . .
He's not adding numbers or typing to his friends..... I play rts games with an accountant friend and he's terribad at them. He never knows where half his units are. So his number typing skills don't seem to translate at all to what that kid was actually doing.
The conversation was about the argument that fast repetitive hand movement on a keyboard is both mentally and physically exhausting.
Not about a persons tactical ability or quickness in RTS games. . .
. . .Please take your red herring back to the fish market.
I wouldn't call them a "sport", and I am not surprised ESPN doesn't want to cover them. Their target demographic probably doesn't have a huge overlap with the esport demographic.
That being said, I watch both ESPN and Twitch quite a bit. Whether you clasify esports as a sport or not, I hope they continue to grow. I especially enjoy watching top tier Dota 2/LoL tournaments, its a lot of fun. Can't wait for the LoL worlds coming up this weekend.
I edited my former post to clarify how it is used in my language. Also the underlined bit is actually using the verb sport as taking part in some game. Guess it is still used in my language like that
I didn't mean to obfuscate your post. I only wanted to point out that one can use different usages of a word in an attempt to 'prove' or 'disprove' a claim.
But language as it is, in constant fluctuation, these type of 'arguments' are usually bound to come up.
To be fair I only posted that definition just to show that there are so many definitions for that word floating around.
Personally, I don't care if people call E-Sports a sport or not. Urban Dictionary is full or words people use in every day life that may or may not be in a 'real' dictionary. We adapt.
Words get invented and put in dictionaries all the time. Society is what changes it, so to live in a 19th century lexicon-ridden language, one would be 'out of touch' with today's lingo.
I edited my former post to clarify how it is used in my language. Also the underlined bit is actually using the verb sport as taking part in some game. Guess it is still used in my language like that
I didn't mean to obfuscate your post. I only wanted to point out that one can use different usages of a word in an attempt to 'prove' or 'disprove' a claim.
But language as it is, in constant fluctuation, these type of 'arguments' are usually bound to come up.
To be fair I only posted that definition just to show that there are so many definitions for that word floating around.
Personally, I don't care if people call E-Sports a sport or not. Urban Dictionary is full or words people use in every day life that may or may not be in a 'real' dictionary. We adapt.
Words get invented and put in dictionaries all the time. Society is what changes it, so to live in a 19th century lexicon-ridden language, one would be 'out of touch' with today's lingo.
I am convinced that it is just a matter of time before esports will be considered official sports by a number of international sports organisations and also dictionaries. It will take time simply because its relatively new and dictionaries are by default conservative
I don't expect to see it on the Olympic games though. This will probably always be mostly for physical sports.
No, so what? Do they have to be sports? Is there some legitimacy found in sport? Which sports have this legitimacy? Dive-Grass? Steroid-Ball? Racial-Slur-in-Team-Name-Ball? The Chinese-cheat-every-chance-they-get-impics?
I'm as shocked as anyone else that people watch these things in growing numbers, but to imply that they lack legitimacy because they aren't 'sport' just shows that you recognize your future competitors and they frighten you.
They are what they are, and what exactly they are doesn't mean much at all as long as people continue to be interested.
Oh, come on. Let us have our esports. It doesn't hurt anyone to consider this a form of sport. Definition or no. I don't get into the whole esport thing, but if it makes some gameholics happy, I say go for it.
I have it on good authority that the Special Olympics is looking at including eSports as part of their lineup of competitions. It's actually really amazing to see competitive activities that are not filled with barriers to entry like a lot of traditional "Sports". I think redefinition is in order.
Originally posted by Aluscia I have it on good authority that the Special Olympics is looking at including eSports as part of their lineup of competitions. It's actually really amazing to see competitive activities that are not filled with barriers to entry like a lot of traditional "Sports". I think redefinition is in order.
Let's not start attaching artificial worth to inconsequential activity because the training, dedication and physical requirements precludes a large percentage of the population from participating at the highest level of play. You would be undermining the foundation of what gives the Special Olympics value. The Special Olympics has worth because individuals are able to rise above the circumstances of their condition and engaged in activity usually reserved to the more physically capable. Although I do not oppose the Special Olympics Committee from pursuing individual eSports related events; I think it would be an insult to the dedication and passion of the Special Olympians to roll up 5 kids in wheelchairs next to a bank of computers in any kind of gesture that would in any way equate our recognition of one with the recognition of the other.
Any attempt to redefine any concept in such broad strokes so that anyone can claim for themselves the prestige associated with a particular title or activity needs to be resisted by a serious culture. If our current definition of a sport is so nebulous that a kid that spends 10 hours a day in front of his computer can call himself an athlete, then it needs be clarified- and if that leaves professional bowlers, fishermen, and race car drivers on the outside looking in- than so be it.
I tend to agree with Hemingways' view of sport on this. Sports are competitions where you can put your skill up against your own life to gain an advantage, hence why he only characterizes bull fighting, rock climbing, and motor racing (hes talking about early F1, not nascar) as sports. "The rest are merely games."
That being said, I'd say esports fit in just fine with the rest of the "games" that ESPN broadcasts.
Of course if you don't actively play any hyper-competitive games like dota, league, sc2, CSGO, you obviously will have no real perspective to judge this.
I think more people should actually watch some E-sports before judging the whole thing. Quite a few people with "I've never watched esports because I'd rather play myself" and "it's not a sport" combined in one post. I always respond with: so you never watch any sports? Else one would make a fine hypocrite
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." - John F. Kennedy And for MMORPGs ever so true...
it's a competitive game, where one team in the end emerges as victorious with a title of world champions. we call it eSports, if it was sports there'd be no use for the E.
i watch some, i enjoy some, i like to play myself. same goes for sports.
The real question is not whether esports are sports, but what are sports in general.
A clear line is drawn between two types of beliefs:
a) Sports are a purely physical competition.
b) Sports are a competition of any sort. The only requirement is for it to be competitive.
Example : type a will not consider chess a sport, because you dont need to train your physical body, only the mind, while type b will.
I recall some weeks ago this was brought up and someone posted an old greek meaning of the word sport and in that they stated that mental and physical competitions are both sports. If you beleive that, then type b is the right one and so esports are just as much a sport as football, just smaller scope.
I personaly love esports, I find watching LoL much more exciting than football, because I can play it too at any time and relate to the things happening in the match + its way more action packed.
Another thing, which I think a lot of people follow like sheep - sponsorship.
Big old sports like football and basketball got huge sponsorships, so people think they're the real thing, while stuff like chess, having low funding, looks like something much less competitive to the avg person.
This becomes quite funny, cause esports are now rolling rly big sponsorships and prize pools. Look at Korea, esports teams there are sponsored by powerhouses like Samsung and SK Telecom.
In the end I think it's just a seperation of who think sports are about physical activity or just competition.
I'm the hardcore player, the one that rushes lvl cap before you even finish the starting area.
it's a competitive game, where one team in the end emerges as victorious with a title of world champions. we call it eSports, if it was sports there'd be no use for the E.
i watch some, i enjoy some, i like to play myself. same goes for sports.
Exactly. People are stupid though and enjoy categorizing, labeling, and comparing...EVERYTHING.
Originally posted by Arskaaa "when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
The question of the article is: Are esports sports? My response is Absolutely Not. As someone who went to a division 1 college and played sports on athletic scholarship for 5 years (redshirted freshman year). I don't care how much time and effort you put into PvP in any game, it does not and never will equal the blood, sweat and tears of a real athlete. Esports players on TV are nothing like NFL football players. Goldenjug above posted one of his definitions of sports might be "Sports are a competition of any sort. The only requirement is for it to be competitive". Is war a sport then? It's a competition to win and both sides try to be competitive...
Of course if you don't actively play any hyper-competitive games like dota, league, sc2, CSGO, you obviously will have no real perspective to judge this.
Of course if you don't play any hyper-competitive sports like football, baseball, basketball, soccer, MMA, you obviously will have no real perspective to judge this.
If we can consider the spelling bee a sport then eSports are sports.
Most games that we play that are in the eSports scene, or want to be, don't require us to train our bodies damn near 24/7 to be competitive. Now in order to reach the top 1% you probably will have to play a lot, know your character/class/weapon/etc, and maybe put many hours into the game, but I don't think that means you have to do 40 pushups 50 crunches and run a mile every day to stay in shape to be able to compete with other eAthletes (lol).
I would consider an esport a sport. It involves a level of skill that not just anyone can attain. To be someone who is an upper echelon participant within an esports competition takes dedication, raw talent, and mental prowess.
Esports aren't athletic sports by any stretch of the imagination, since the most physically demanding portion is hand to eye coordination. However, it is a sport that requires quick thinking, quick decision making, and forward tactical thinking. Much like chess and poker. Hell, Golf and Motor Sports participants aren't exactly athletes in traditional terms either, imo, but I still consider the activity itself a sport for both.
As the human race becomes more dependent on technology and evolves more mentally and possibly not so much physically, esports will most likely branch out into new avenues of competition which don't exist yet.
Comments
I didn't mean to obfuscate your post. I only wanted to point out that one can use different usages of a word in an attempt to 'prove' or 'disprove' a claim.
But language as it is, in constant fluctuation, these type of 'arguments' are usually bound to come up.
I can and do move my fingers and hands faster for hours at a time than both the people in the videos you linked.
Is it mentally and physically exhausting? After 6-7 hours I'm less tired than my 30 min gym workout. . .
To be fair I only posted that definition just to show that there are so many definitions for that word floating around.
Wikipedia lists another few from different international sports organisations : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport
I suppose something we're all guilty of is thinking a sport has to be something only "world" class athletes can do but obviously that isn't true. Most people have played football or baseball at some time. It was still a sport when we did it. The setting and activity is what defined it as a sport over just going and kicking a ball around or throwing the football back and forth.
The conversation was about the argument that fast repetitive hand movement on a keyboard is both mentally and physically exhausting.
Not about a persons tactical ability or quickness in RTS games. . .
. . .Please take your red herring back to the fish market.
I wouldn't call them a "sport", and I am not surprised ESPN doesn't want to cover them. Their target demographic probably doesn't have a huge overlap with the esport demographic.
That being said, I watch both ESPN and Twitch quite a bit. Whether you clasify esports as a sport or not, I hope they continue to grow. I especially enjoy watching top tier Dota 2/LoL tournaments, its a lot of fun. Can't wait for the LoL worlds coming up this weekend.
Personally, I don't care if people call E-Sports a sport or not. Urban Dictionary is full or words people use in every day life that may or may not be in a 'real' dictionary. We adapt.
Words get invented and put in dictionaries all the time. Society is what changes it, so to live in a 19th century lexicon-ridden language, one would be 'out of touch' with today's lingo.
This only has one possible outcome:
The Advent of the International Gaming Olympics!!!
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I am convinced that it is just a matter of time before esports will be considered official sports by a number of international sports organisations and also dictionaries. It will take time simply because its relatively new and dictionaries are by default conservative
I don't expect to see it on the Olympic games though. This will probably always be mostly for physical sports.
Sport is defined as:
an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
So therefore, unless everyone playing the game is lifting weights and physically exerting themselves, no, it's not a sport.
No, so what? Do they have to be sports? Is there some legitimacy found in sport? Which sports have this legitimacy? Dive-Grass? Steroid-Ball? Racial-Slur-in-Team-Name-Ball? The Chinese-cheat-every-chance-they-get-impics?
I'm as shocked as anyone else that people watch these things in growing numbers, but to imply that they lack legitimacy because they aren't 'sport' just shows that you recognize your future competitors and they frighten you.
They are what they are, and what exactly they are doesn't mean much at all as long as people continue to be interested.
I self identify as a monkey.
Let's not start attaching artificial worth to inconsequential activity because the training, dedication and physical requirements precludes a large percentage of the population from participating at the highest level of play. You would be undermining the foundation of what gives the Special Olympics value. The Special Olympics has worth because individuals are able to rise above the circumstances of their condition and engaged in activity usually reserved to the more physically capable. Although I do not oppose the Special Olympics Committee from pursuing individual eSports related events; I think it would be an insult to the dedication and passion of the Special Olympians to roll up 5 kids in wheelchairs next to a bank of computers in any kind of gesture that would in any way equate our recognition of one with the recognition of the other.
Any attempt to redefine any concept in such broad strokes so that anyone can claim for themselves the prestige associated with a particular title or activity needs to be resisted by a serious culture. If our current definition of a sport is so nebulous that a kid that spends 10 hours a day in front of his computer can call himself an athlete, then it needs be clarified- and if that leaves professional bowlers, fishermen, and race car drivers on the outside looking in- than so be it.
I tend to agree with Hemingways' view of sport on this. Sports are competitions where you can put your skill up against your own life to gain an advantage, hence why he only characterizes bull fighting, rock climbing, and motor racing (hes talking about early F1, not nascar) as sports. "The rest are merely games."
That being said, I'd say esports fit in just fine with the rest of the "games" that ESPN broadcasts.
Of course if you don't actively play any hyper-competitive games like dota, league, sc2, CSGO, you obviously will have no real perspective to judge this.
I think more people should actually watch some E-sports before judging the whole thing. Quite a few people with "I've never watched esports because I'd rather play myself" and "it's not a sport" combined in one post. I always respond with: so you never watch any sports? Else one would make a fine hypocrite
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." - John F. Kennedy
And for MMORPGs ever so true...
I'd like to pose a different question:
DOES IT FUCKING MATTER!?
it's a competitive game, where one team in the end emerges as victorious with a title of world champions. we call it eSports, if it was sports there'd be no use for the E.
i watch some, i enjoy some, i like to play myself. same goes for sports.
The real question is not whether esports are sports, but what are sports in general.
A clear line is drawn between two types of beliefs:
a) Sports are a purely physical competition.
b) Sports are a competition of any sort. The only requirement is for it to be competitive.
Example : type a will not consider chess a sport, because you dont need to train your physical body, only the mind, while type b will.
I recall some weeks ago this was brought up and someone posted an old greek meaning of the word sport and in that they stated that mental and physical competitions are both sports. If you beleive that, then type b is the right one and so esports are just as much a sport as football, just smaller scope.
I personaly love esports, I find watching LoL much more exciting than football, because I can play it too at any time and relate to the things happening in the match + its way more action packed.
Another thing, which I think a lot of people follow like sheep - sponsorship.
Big old sports like football and basketball got huge sponsorships, so people think they're the real thing, while stuff like chess, having low funding, looks like something much less competitive to the avg person.
This becomes quite funny, cause esports are now rolling rly big sponsorships and prize pools. Look at Korea, esports teams there are sponsored by powerhouses like Samsung and SK Telecom.
In the end I think it's just a seperation of who think sports are about physical activity or just competition.
I'm the hardcore player, the one that rushes lvl cap before you even finish the starting area.
Exactly. People are stupid though and enjoy categorizing, labeling, and comparing...EVERYTHING.
Originally posted by Arskaaa
"when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
Of course if you don't play any hyper-competitive sports like football, baseball, basketball, soccer, MMA, you obviously will have no real perspective to judge this.
As long as Chess is still considered a sport then yes.
Is the spelling bee a sport?
If we can consider the spelling bee a sport then eSports are sports.
Most games that we play that are in the eSports scene, or want to be, don't require us to train our bodies damn near 24/7 to be competitive. Now in order to reach the top 1% you probably will have to play a lot, know your character/class/weapon/etc, and maybe put many hours into the game, but I don't think that means you have to do 40 pushups 50 crunches and run a mile every day to stay in shape to be able to compete with other eAthletes (lol).
I would consider an esport a sport. It involves a level of skill that not just anyone can attain. To be someone who is an upper echelon participant within an esports competition takes dedication, raw talent, and mental prowess.
Esports aren't athletic sports by any stretch of the imagination, since the most physically demanding portion is hand to eye coordination. However, it is a sport that requires quick thinking, quick decision making, and forward tactical thinking. Much like chess and poker. Hell, Golf and Motor Sports participants aren't exactly athletes in traditional terms either, imo, but I still consider the activity itself a sport for both.
As the human race becomes more dependent on technology and evolves more mentally and possibly not so much physically, esports will most likely branch out into new avenues of competition which don't exist yet.