I didn't know they asked for less and were so much more active than this time. If they were so active last time, why such a dearth of updates this time. That boggles my mind. And why ask for more money this time than last after it failed, and why ask for more money while providing less updates and interaction. I love what I have played so far, but you might be right in asking what their intentions are. Are they intending to actually complete this or were they looking for 100k payout and that was that. Kind of hoping to recoup some cash for the time they spent so they could move onto other things. I did pledge to this, and frankly I might be a little afraid of what was going to happen with my money except for the fact that this won't get funded so therefor I have nothing to fear. But what happens if they do direct funding via their website. If their heart isn't in this for the long haul, or into this enough to be proactive enough to interact with potential investors/backers, that would leave me worried about tossing them money.
Thanks for the info though as you've been following this far longer than most of us have. Its is appreciated.
My opinion on this is they have been working on the project for a long time and they want to see it finished. I doubt they would take the 100k or website donations and say something in the line of "haha, kthxgb." They are already working on the game for 3 years without any payment. Think about it, if you were working on a project for that time, wouldnt you like to see it go live as soon as possible? During the first ks they might have planned a 2nd one and at that time less money made sense. Invest a bit, push the development and then maybe ask for a bit more to finish it. Nothing bad about that imho.
The question if their heart is in this for the long hault has been answered by them because they work for nothing atm. Eric said a few weeks ago he had been working on it full time for some time now (he mentioned the time but I can't remember). Meaning the devs work for free. The heart is in the project otherwise I guess he had taken a paid job.
Only problem I see is the marketing part because if I understand correctly everyone working on the project is either a coder or a designer/animator. People who never worked in marketing might not know how it works or why it is important. You might be a freelancing coder but you get paid if you work for someone. If you create your own game people underestimate the work that goes into getting money. Not really their fault imho because they are good at what they do, coding and they arent used to organize the money.
Sadly with 12 hours to go this game doesn't look like it will make even 1/4 of it's funding goal. I can only hope the team lead can restrategize and make this game a reality. Unless in the next 10 hours my BABA stock triples I will sadly be of no further help.
Only problem I see is the marketing part because if I understand correctly everyone working on the project is either a coder or a designer/animator. People who never worked in marketing might not know how it works or why it is important. You might be a freelancing coder but you get paid if you work for someone. If you create your own game people underestimate the work that goes into getting money. Not really their fault imho because they are good at what they do, coding and they arent used to organize the money.
The rest of your post seems reasonable enough, if a bit on the apologetic side..
This last paragraph, though? No. Just no. It's another example of the "it's not the developers' fault!" mindset that seems prevalent around this project. It's just a bunch of weak and, in some cases, unreasonable, rationalizations.
Fact: It's 100% their project. It's 100% their effort. It's 100% their responsibility to get the word out. It's 100% their fault if their project isn't better known because they didn't do more to make people aware of it.
Regarding the whole "they aren't marketing people" thing. Come on.
You don't have to be an expert in marketing, or in Power Point presentations, or whatever. This isn't advanced stuff. Google and YouTube offer up a plethora of sources of advice, tips, tricks, do's and don'ts, etc. Someone motivated can spend some time, get a crash course - at least enough to cover the basics - and get the word out there. How much "marketing experience" does a person really need to send off emails to a bunch of gaming news sites and magazines, with some info on the project, some links to screenshots, maybe a video, etc? How much marketing experience does a person need to request an interview with those same people?
Simple answer: None.
You need no marketing experience to do that. It's as simple as visiting some sites, collecting some contact info, and sending off some emails. Eric and Sandra have both worked in the industry and certainly have contacts they could leverage to help get the word around. For example, I originally learned of the project by a friend who worked with Eric at Turbine.
I'm typing all this up just off the top of my head. Not because I have some kind of insight into marketing. But because it couldn't be any more obvious.
There's been nothing stopping Eric and Sandra from getting the word out and getting more light on PG except their own inaction. They aren't the first, nor only "non marketing people" to launch and promote a project. Others have done it successfully. So can the PG folks.
And if they really are unable to do any of that, then they could certainly - in 2+ years - have found someone to handle that stuff for them. But they didn't even do that much, apparently.
I would love to see this game successfully and fully developed quite a lot as well. But let's stop "protecting", making excuses and pretending that somehow Eric and Sandra are blameless and couldn't have done more - FAR more - than they have in promoting their own project, okay? Just stop it already. In 2+ years, they could have done far more, and they should have done far more. They didn't.
Regarding the whole "they aren't marketing people" thing. Come on.
You don't have to be an expert in marketing, or in Power Point presentations, or whatever. This isn't advanced stuff. Google and YouTube offer up a plethora of sources of advice, tips, tricks, do's and don'ts, etc. Someone motivated can spend some time, get a crash course - at least enough to cover the basics - and get the word out there. How much "marketing experience" does a person really need to send off emails to a bunch of gaming news sites and magazines, with some info on the project, some links to screenshots, maybe a video, etc? How much marketing experience does a person need to request an interview with those same people?
Simple answer: None.
Do you know for a fact that they didn't contact news websites? I don't think marketing is as easy as you are making it sound. If it was, companies would use minimum wage interns to do it rather than highly paid professionals. It is unfortunate for them that because of of the recent abuse of "early access" leading to several recent high profile scandals it is harder for legitimate crowdfunding projects to overcome skepticism and hostility. Add to the fact that the market has been saturated by a deluge of amateurish failed Kickstarters and gaming news sites have stopped considering a new Kickstarter automatically news worthy. It also runs against them that while they have experience they don't have the profile of a Richard Garriott or a Chris Avellone. If they had the money hiring professional marketer would probably be wise but that would drain a lot of the scant resources from their project and may not even lead to better results.
The game itself is very solid for alpha. Maybe they are better of simply taking donations to keep development going and hoping the Kickstarter fatigue and Early Access backlash which we are currently seeing wears off in a couple of years.
Regarding the whole "they aren't marketing people" thing. Come on.
You don't have to be an expert in marketing, or in Power Point presentations, or whatever. This isn't advanced stuff. Google and YouTube offer up a plethora of sources of advice, tips, tricks, do's and don'ts, etc. Someone motivated can spend some time, get a crash course - at least enough to cover the basics - and get the word out there. How much "marketing experience" does a person really need to send off emails to a bunch of gaming news sites and magazines, with some info on the project, some links to screenshots, maybe a video, etc? How much marketing experience does a person need to request an interview with those same people?
Simple answer: None.
Do you know for a fact that they didn't contact news websites?
Irrelevant.
I don't need to know anything "for a fact". I can see the results. Or rather, the lack of them. Whatever they did was far too little.
And before you scoff at that, I say it with a very high degree of confidence - because I can see the results. I can see how little coverage there's been. I can see how little information is out there, and where it's coming from. I can see just how few people - including avid MMO gamers, who frequent a variety of gaming sites - have even heard of Project Gorgon.
Then, I can see how drastically different it is for projects that are actively promoted and talked about. It's a night and day difference.
None of that, by the way, is "marketing". You don't need a "marketing budget", nor a "marketing dept", nor "marketing experience" to post on websites, on Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, gaming forums. You don't need a "marketing budget" to type up some emails and send them off (persistently, if necessary) to the appropriate contact addresses at gaming sites. You don't need to be a 'Marketer' to just get out there and freaking talk to people about what you're doing. You just need the initiative to set aside the time.. and do it.
If there were just one example of how absent they've been in promoting their own project in all this, I need only point to their latest Kickstarter, which has had only 6 updates in its entire time. If there's one time Eric and Sandra should have been pedal-to-metal, knee-deep in pushing this project... it was during this last month or so. Yet, all they could be bothered to push out were six updates. That's abysmal. If the creators feel PG isn't deserving of more attention than a paltry 6 updates... then why the hell should anyone else feel it's worth their time, attention or money? For crying out loud, I've seen projects post almost 6 updates in a single day, yet Eric/Sandra couldn't muster more than that in a month? Is there that little to say about the project? Or are they just that uninterested in seeing it succeed?
I don't think marketing is as easy as you are making it sound. If it was, companies would use minimum wage interns to do it rather than highly paid professionals.
I'm not making "Marketing" sound like anything. Because what we're talking about here isn't "Marketing". I realize you people keep wanting to spin it that way, and I get why; if you spin it as 'Marketing', then you free Sandra and Eric of any personal responsibility, since "they're not marketers", and "marketing is hard". I'm just telling you that dog won't hunt. Their project. Their responsibility to talk about it, and let us know why we should care.
Anyway, the term you're looking for is "self-promotion".
Anyone can promote themselves and/or something they have. It's what individuals (not Marketing departments) do when they approach companies with an idea and try to convince them to buy or otherwise fund what they're doing. It's people with an idea, looking for the support to make it happen. It's what people do on Kickstarter and Indiegogo when they are pitching a new project.
Funny thing is, they could use "minimum wage interns" to handle basic community stuff.. like posting updates, representation in forums to answer questions, share news updates, etc. Just tell them what needs to be said, and go do it. Down-side of that, though is that's really impersonal and when a duo of developers are personally seeking the endorsement of a number of people for their project... it's far more effective to have them speaking to you personally, and not through "minimum wage interns".
Interestingly enough... There's been people practically begging Eric to let them volunteer any way they can. So hey.. If he wanted to go that route, "minimum wage" wouldn't even be necessary.
It is unfortunate for them that because of of the recent abuse of "early access" leading to several recent high profile scandals it is harder for legitimate crowdfunding projects to overcome skepticism and hostility. Add to the fact that the market has been saturated by a deluge of amateurish failed Kickstarters and gaming news sites have stopped considering a new Kickstarter automatically news worthy. It also runs against them that while they have experience they don't have the profile of a Richard Garriott or a Chris Avellone. If they had the money hiring professional marketer would probably be wise but that would drain a lot of the scant resources from their project and may not even lead to better results.
Again... all irrelevant.
There have also been successfully funded campaigns, happening right along side all those failed, amateurish ones you vaguely refer to. You can't just conveniently ignore those because they don't support your narrative. There's a reason successful KS's succeed, and failed ones fail.
Regardless... none of that has squat to do with what is now PG's second failure on KS.
Seriously... It's time to get over it and stop making excuses.
Project Gorgon's Kickstarter has failed - twice now - because Eric and Sandra failed to run an engaging or even active campaign. Again, they posted six updates throughout the entire campaign. They've been practically invisible in other media.
They've put little effort into the endeavor, and have accordingly received little interest in return.
Stop blaming everything and everyone else but Eric and Sandra for PG's failures. Stop making excuses. Stop justifying their lack of initiative and effort to promote their own project.
What people should be saying is: "Eric.. Sandra... WTF... You two have an awesome project here, with amazing potential... that hardly anyone knows about. Where are you? Why aren't you promoting this more? Why aren't you taking notes from other successful campaigns, seeing what they did, and then adapting those ideas to your own? Why aren't you posting more on social media and forums? Why aren't you shouting about this from the rooftops? Why is there so little mention of this game out there? How do you expect anyone to even know about this project, much less fund it, if you're hardly talking about it?"
To put it bluntly: instead of kissing Eric and Sandra's asses, you should be lighting a fire under them.
The game itself is very solid for alpha. Maybe they are better of simply taking donations to keep development going and hoping the Kickstarter fatigue and Early Access backlash which we are currently seeing wears off in a couple of years.
Accepting donations from such a tiny community - however dedicated - isn't going to get them far. They still need to get the word out. They still need to promote this project and make people aware of it, and why it deserves their attention. What PG needs is to go bigger in its promotion... not smaller. You need to expand the community, not isolate it.
In your hypothetical "two years from now" scenario, if Eric and Sandra ran the same campaign they did this last time around, or even close to it, you'd be having to find new excuses as to why it didn't succeed.
They didn't succeed because the KS campaign was horribly run, and they've been far too absent in terms of promoting and talking about it elsewhere. The buck stops with them. The blame lies at their own feet. No one else's.
I like PG as well, and I'd like to see it grow and succeed. However, I'm not going to sit here and delude myself into believing that somehow Eric and Sandra have done all they can, and it's "everyone else's" fault that the project isn't getting traction.
Hoping this becomes a Shawshank type game. Even though the KS numbers weren't good, word of mouth has been spreading and hope to see alternate funding methods soon.
"We've sent an incredible number of emails and talked to hundreds and hundreds of bloggers, journalists, and so on, and tried to get as much publicity as we can. We haven't been just screwing around all month, we've been pushing hard -- it's just not worked! Some of those people have started to get back to us recently, though, so I guess we'll see how things go over the next week or two as more interviews go up, and then formulate a plan."
Hmm... "hundreds and hundreds"? I sense hyperbole there. But regardless, if they've made even half as much of a push as he claims, then it seems they haven't done a good enough job promoting the project, or the project just doesn't sell itself well enough. Which, it really doesn't. I'm not "hating on Project Gorgon" by any stretch - I found their pitch video to be pretty underwhelming. Again, no excitement or enthusiasm. They sound very blase' about it all for the most part.
Maybe by their own standards they were doing "a lot". Again, the results don't bear that out. To me, either they weren't contacting and talking to "hundreds and hundreds" of people they claim, they were giving a really underwhelming pitch, or the game just isn't that interesting to more than a handful of people (myself among them).
http://stratics.com/community/threads/if-kickstarter-fails-then-what.321782/ They are a handful of people and are trying harder then you think. I mean getting the word out on your KS is important and they only have themselves to do it while also developing the game and running the KS. I mean how many people do they have in helping develop the game 3 or 4 people maybe a couple more?
Sorry. Still calling BS.
And really, this on-going defense, insisting that somehow they did all they could but "it just wasn't working!" is getting into the realm of intellectual dishonesty. All you have to do is go back over the KS campaign and see just how uninvolved they were and the story is made clear.
They had plenty of time ahead of the 2nd Kickstarter to prepare, to set out a plan for their updates, what would they share, what info would they provide... and so on. They could have planned out their entire campaign before even starting it. They could have had their updates written and ready to go, or at least outlined so all they had to do is fill in specific details. They had the experience of their first KS as a guide of what not to do ("whatever didn't work last time, shouldn't be repeated this time"). They have the benefit of having other, more successful KS's still up and available to see how they were handled.
Instead they start a new KS campaign and post 7 updates, including the obligatory "thanks for all the fish" one at the end.
Let's look at their activity... The dates on their updates are as follows: Aug 29, Aug 31, Sep 3, Sep 8, Sep 15, Sep 22, and Sep 27.
The most active they were, was in their first two updates, with 2 days between them. That's at the beginning of the KS, where they should have been a lot more active, to hit the ground running, and really start off with a bang. Instead, they started off at a limp, and proceeded to slow down even more from there. By the end, they had upwards of a week between updates. A week. I'm sorry. There's no excuse for that. Small team or no. Even if they had to write each one "on the spot" and didn't have them prepared, or at least outlined, they could have done better than that. Anyone could have. They could have written a damn update while sitting on the toilet for crying out loud. Even one post every other day would have been a ton better... not sufficient... but better.
Then there's another moment that made me facepalm when I read it. In their Sep 22nd update, they post this as a headline/title:
"Kickstarter Isn't Gonna Make It, But We're Not Dead Yet!
And then proceed to say this: "Barring some sort of miracle, this Kickstarter attempt isn't going to succeed. But that's been pretty obvious for a while!"
Really? 6 days to go, and they're already calling it a failure... which they already felt was "pretty obvious for a while" at that point?
Even if they felt that way... why the *hell* would they say that openly? That's like calling an election and telling voters "they may as well go home", hours before the polls have closed.
In 6 days, they could have possibly turned this around (if they were pushing for it to begin with) and it could have met its goal... even if only barely. It's unlikely, sure... but it's happened before.
But no. Instead, they gave up and threw in the towel with almost a full week left. To me, that speaks volumes of the general mentality behind the scenes there; and it's not a very positive one.
I've seen projects where, even with less than 24 hours left to go, they were still keeping it positive. Still saying "come on guys.. we can still turn this around!". Maybe they knew that was nonsense, but that's not the point. The point is the positivity. The point is the brighter outlook, that even when it seems dire, they're not giving up on it. That positivity is huge, and it conveys something about the people behind the project far beyond just the campaign itself.
It also, for me, strengthens something I'd said in my first post... that Eric and Sandra really are just not that passionate about the whole thing. I don't care what they say to the contrary. Talk is cheap. In these sitautions, words don't matter. Actions matter. And in this case, their actions just did not echo their words.
So again, you can tell me all day long "They've done all they could! They're really passionate about it!". Their actions, and their willingness to call it "over" with almost a week left in the campaign paints a much different story. If that is in fact the best they can do... then they need to find someone who can do it for them and just stick to development.
If they were to try for Indiegogo (something Eric has noted in a video interview), they should have someone else manage that as well.
Note.. I say all this, again, not as a "hater", or because I want it to fail. I like the game. I like what Eric and Sandra are trying to do, and I'm a huge fan of indie developers.
I'm just bewildered, and more than a bit frustrated, at their lack of passion and commitment in getting the word out. They can have the best game ever made.. It's not going to mean squat if no one knows about it.
@<;a data-cke-saved-href="http://www.mmorpg.com/profile.cfm/username/Pratt2112"; href="http://www.mmorpg.com/profile.cfm/username/Pratt2112"; title="View information about Pratt2112" suhlink"="" sl-processed="1">Pratt2112: I think you are being unfair to Eric and Sandra by implying that they are not passionate, lazy and maybe don't even want their own project to succeed. I think some people deal better with the media and are better at selling their ideas. From what I've observed this is a real weakness these two have. They seem much better at game creation and ideas than at promoting their game. It reminds me of some bands I've followed that often spoil their careers because they do not like promoting themselves and all the BS that goes along with that and do it in a very half assed way. It does not mean they aren't passionate about what they do (in fact if anything often those types of people are more passionate as they want to focus all their effort on their music (or in this case game design).
I share your frustration as I want to see this game funded and do think the Kickstarters have been poorly handled by Eric and Sandra but chewing them out or insulting them isn't fair. I hope they will take stock on their own after this and come up with an alternate plan to get their dream funded.
Originally posted by Valkyrie I tried it and like it, but the rather prepubescent obsession with childish swearing and sexual remarks and offenses is eye-roll-inducing and annoying. Like talking with a teenager/pre-teen who tries to test boundaries.
That's one of my very few issues with this game. The swearing and sexual remarks from the NPCs seem unnecessary and really detract from some otherwise interesting text/conversations.
I agree. I was sort of hoping this sort of thing would eventually get cleaned up in favor of more mature and interesting dialog. It doesn't really change the mechanics of the game, but it does affect the flavor of the game world.
I disagree completely. I think it positively impacts the game world. It gives it diversity. Not every single NPC swears or throws in sexual references or innuendos. Much like real life some do some don't. I don't find swearing juvenile, I find it part of everyday speech. Its descriptive, it invokes emotion. I'm almost 40, adding in a few curses here and there makes it more realistic. I don't know a single adult that doesn't curse, I've never known one that hasn't save maybe a priest/pastor. I suppose if you live sheltered in the bible belt or something I could see it being jarring, but the majority of people in the english speaking world use "those" words at least sometimes. I've lived in 7 different countries over my life, USA Australia and UK among them and as I said, every single one of them has cursed like the previous one.
I've nothing against the use of profanity, however where it is and when it is in the game seems out of context, almost jarring at times. I'll just chalk it up to bad writing.
Agreed, it is definitely plain horrible weak writing. I don't care about swearing in any way/don't mind, I've grown up in Europe lol. But Gorgon has it pushed out - as I said - that it feels like a kid trying to test boundaries (oh I'm so naughty), not in a way it seems believable or mature or atmospheric.
Played: Pretty much any fantasy MMO, some did not even make it to release ... Favorites: UO, EQ2, Vanguard, Wurm Online, Salem, ESO, Creativerse Playing: ESO, Creativerse, Guild Wars 2 Anticipating: (sigh) ... maybe Ashes of Creation
What I find objectionable is your need to point fingers and lay blame. It's pretty obvious they are accountable and the responsibility for marketing falls with them and they didn't do a good job. Your accusations of hyperbole are negative and frankly condescending and not productive.
Yes, given the lack of promotion and "oomph" I've seen from them elsewhere, I do call hyperbole on a claim that they've spoken to "hundreds of people". You can disagree, but that's my opinion based on what I've seen from them myself. Don't like my opinion? Tough shit. Deal with it.
What's not productive are the people lining up to defend and protect Eric and Sandra (like yourself, as the rest of your post illustrates) by dismissing their failures and/or outright holding them innocent, while claiming it's somehow on the fansfor "not supporting it more".
People will tend to talk about and spread the word about something they're interested in anyway. They do it because they want to talk about it. Thing is, those people can only talk about something if they know about it in the first place. They'll only talk about it if it's something they feel is so amazing and so good that they simply can't help but talk about it to whom ever will listen. They can only know and get that excited about it, if the creators are sufficiently doing their job in getting the word out in the first place.
It starts at the top.
It isn't a matter of fault and blame, but what needs to happen next. For niche titles and interests there is as much responsibility for the hobbyist to make it happen as their is for the provider to offer it. That doesn't excuse a poor kickstarter campaign, but laying blame also brings no remedy. Okay, they could have done it better, so what? That doesn't change the fact that a type of gameplay some of us want might not happen. Do we want it? Obviously not enough to make it so, or there really aren't enough of the old-schoolers to make it financially viable.
Hold on. I need to slam my head into my keyboard a few dozen times after reading that bit in blue.
"So what?"
Seriously?
Are you aware that a KS is where they're asking for funding to create the game you and others want to play?
Are you aware that to get that money, that they have to promote, describe and build interest and excitement about the project, enough that people will choose to pull out their wallets and support it?
Are you aware that running a poor kickstarter, where the creators barely show up at all, call it a "failure" with almost a full week left in the campaign, and are otherwise very ho-hum in their promotion of it, is not going to create the interest, excitement and funding the project requires?
That ~30 days was their time to get out there and put this project in people's faces to the point where they couldn't ignore it. It was their time to build excitement around it, to get people interested in "gee, what's this Gorgon thing I keep seeing people talking about?"
Have you never seen another, more successful KS run before? Have you not noticed how active they are? How they're updating that thing every day, multiple times in many cases? Did you see them post 7 updates total, and call it a failure with nearly a fourth of the campaign time remaining? It baffles me that the significance of just those two things - nevermind all the other issues - seems to completely fly over people's heads.
You can't expect people to show up and support a project if you're barely letting them know about it in the first place. No one's going to show up to support a KS whose own creators are calling a "failure" with nearly a week to go. Why would they donate money to something if it's not going to make a difference anyway... according to the project's creators? Think about that.
And you say "So what?"
Wow.
You mention how "it's about what to do going forward", as though the answer isn't already freaking obvious lol. I mean holy cow.
So let's stop posturing and realize that if we want a certain type of game we need to be more proactive. We need to let the media outlets know we want this covered and we need to show, as a demographic, that our interest can make the industry money. If not we'll be relegated to arguing over boring threads on how games don't do what we want anymore. That will never get us our game.
Right. Gamers should totally be blaming themselves for Eric and Sandra's' failures in running an effective KS campaign. You should totally blame yourselves for their lack of assertiveness and enthusiasm when promoting and talking about it. You should keep blaming yourselves for their near complete absence from social media, from popular gaming forums and such. That the game is hardly known by anyone after 2 KS campaigns and 2+ years of awareness is totally the fault of the fans, not the creators.
Right.
You just take up that cross and carry it for them, while completely ignoring their failures in doing the same - for their own project. After all, PG's inability to gain traction after 2+ years doesn't lie with the game's creators. No no. It's really the gamers' fault.
I'll continue playtesting it for however long it's around, and I'll talk to people about it, and suggest they check it out if I think it's something they'd appreciate and enjoy. Basically, I'll do what I, or anyone, can fairly be asked to do.
However, I will not blame myself or hold myself accountable, for Eric and Sandra's inability to better promote their own project. Sorry. Ain't happening. I just can not delude myself enough to believe that I'm to blame for others' lack of action.
Some really wordy replies above. I suggest a course in writing as what you wrote appeared to be complete nonsense to most of us.
What I don't get is titles like Life is Feudal getting so much support when it will never be more than a mediocre game because of clueless developers and a game like this with so much potential getting basically ignored.
All you Life is Feudal supporters, you picked the wrong horse, this game will be much better.
Comments
My opinion on this is they have been working on the project for a long time and they want to see it finished. I doubt they would take the 100k or website donations and say something in the line of "haha, kthxgb." They are already working on the game for 3 years without any payment. Think about it, if you were working on a project for that time, wouldnt you like to see it go live as soon as possible? During the first ks they might have planned a 2nd one and at that time less money made sense. Invest a bit, push the development and then maybe ask for a bit more to finish it. Nothing bad about that imho.
The question if their heart is in this for the long hault has been answered by them because they work for nothing atm. Eric said a few weeks ago he had been working on it full time for some time now (he mentioned the time but I can't remember). Meaning the devs work for free. The heart is in the project otherwise I guess he had taken a paid job.
Only problem I see is the marketing part because if I understand correctly everyone working on the project is either a coder or a designer/animator. People who never worked in marketing might not know how it works or why it is important. You might be a freelancing coder but you get paid if you work for someone. If you create your own game people underestimate the work that goes into getting money. Not really their fault imho because they are good at what they do, coding and they arent used to organize the money.
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...
The rest of your post seems reasonable enough, if a bit on the apologetic side..
This last paragraph, though? No. Just no. It's another example of the "it's not the developers' fault!" mindset that seems prevalent around this project. It's just a bunch of weak and, in some cases, unreasonable, rationalizations.
Fact: It's 100% their project. It's 100% their effort. It's 100% their responsibility to get the word out. It's 100% their fault if their project isn't better known because they didn't do more to make people aware of it.
Regarding the whole "they aren't marketing people" thing. Come on.
You don't have to be an expert in marketing, or in Power Point presentations, or whatever. This isn't advanced stuff. Google and YouTube offer up a plethora of sources of advice, tips, tricks, do's and don'ts, etc. Someone motivated can spend some time, get a crash course - at least enough to cover the basics - and get the word out there. How much "marketing experience" does a person really need to send off emails to a bunch of gaming news sites and magazines, with some info on the project, some links to screenshots, maybe a video, etc? How much marketing experience does a person need to request an interview with those same people?
Simple answer: None.
You need no marketing experience to do that. It's as simple as visiting some sites, collecting some contact info, and sending off some emails. Eric and Sandra have both worked in the industry and certainly have contacts they could leverage to help get the word around. For example, I originally learned of the project by a friend who worked with Eric at Turbine.
I'm typing all this up just off the top of my head. Not because I have some kind of insight into marketing. But because it couldn't be any more obvious.
There's been nothing stopping Eric and Sandra from getting the word out and getting more light on PG except their own inaction. They aren't the first, nor only "non marketing people" to launch and promote a project. Others have done it successfully. So can the PG folks.
And if they really are unable to do any of that, then they could certainly - in 2+ years - have found someone to handle that stuff for them. But they didn't even do that much, apparently.
I would love to see this game successfully and fully developed quite a lot as well. But let's stop "protecting", making excuses and pretending that somehow Eric and Sandra are blameless and couldn't have done more - FAR more - than they have in promoting their own project, okay? Just stop it already. In 2+ years, they could have done far more, and they should have done far more. They didn't.
Do you know for a fact that they didn't contact news websites? I don't think marketing is as easy as you are making it sound. If it was, companies would use minimum wage interns to do it rather than highly paid professionals. It is unfortunate for them that because of of the recent abuse of "early access" leading to several recent high profile scandals it is harder for legitimate crowdfunding projects to overcome skepticism and hostility. Add to the fact that the market has been saturated by a deluge of amateurish failed Kickstarters and gaming news sites have stopped considering a new Kickstarter automatically news worthy. It also runs against them that while they have experience they don't have the profile of a Richard Garriott or a Chris Avellone. If they had the money hiring professional marketer would probably be wise but that would drain a lot of the scant resources from their project and may not even lead to better results.
The game itself is very solid for alpha. Maybe they are better of simply taking donations to keep development going and hoping the Kickstarter fatigue and Early Access backlash which we are currently seeing wears off in a couple of years.
Note.. I say all this, again, not as a "hater", or because I want it to fail. I like the game. I like what Eric and Sandra are trying to do, and I'm a huge fan of indie developers.
I'm just bewildered, and more than a bit frustrated, at their lack of passion and commitment in getting the word out. They can have the best game ever made.. It's not going to mean squat if no one knows about it.
No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.
@<;a data-cke-saved-href="http://www.mmorpg.com/profile.cfm/username/Pratt2112"; href="http://www.mmorpg.com/profile.cfm/username/Pratt2112"; title="View information about Pratt2112" suhlink"="" sl-processed="1">Pratt2112: I think you are being unfair to Eric and Sandra by implying that they are not passionate, lazy and maybe don't even want their own project to succeed. I think some people deal better with the media and are better at selling their ideas. From what I've observed this is a real weakness these two have. They seem much better at game creation and ideas than at promoting their game. It reminds me of some bands I've followed that often spoil their careers because they do not like promoting themselves and all the BS that goes along with that and do it in a very half assed way. It does not mean they aren't passionate about what they do (in fact if anything often those types of people are more passionate as they want to focus all their effort on their music (or in this case game design).
I share your frustration as I want to see this game funded and do think the Kickstarters have been poorly handled by Eric and Sandra but chewing them out or insulting them isn't fair. I hope they will take stock on their own after this and come up with an alternate plan to get their dream funded.
Agreed, it is definitely plain horrible weak writing. I don't care about swearing in any way/don't mind, I've grown up in Europe lol. But Gorgon has it pushed out - as I said - that it feels like a kid trying to test boundaries (oh I'm so naughty), not in a way it seems believable or mature or atmospheric.
Played: Pretty much any fantasy MMO, some did not even make it to release ...
Favorites: UO, EQ2, Vanguard, Wurm Online, Salem, ESO, Creativerse
Playing: ESO, Creativerse, Guild Wars 2
Anticipating: (sigh) ... maybe Ashes of Creation
Some really wordy replies above. I suggest a course in writing as what you wrote appeared to be complete nonsense to most of us.
What I don't get is titles like Life is Feudal getting so much support when it will never be more than a mediocre game because of clueless developers and a game like this with so much potential getting basically ignored.
All you Life is Feudal supporters, you picked the wrong horse, this game will be much better.
Probably the most accurate comment I've read about this game so far.