Originally posted by ghoul31 Walking around invisible then backstabbing people and insta killing them is just stupid.
It makes open pvp games a griefers paradise.
These types of characters have 1 chance to kill you because they are too squishy to defend themselves.
What they are designed to do is take out maybe, 1 high profile threat and once exposed die at the hands of other players.
Extreme 1:1 balance.
Yeah, but that's generally not the case. It's usually more like some high-level player stun-locking some lowbie just to make their gaming experience crap. I'm sometimes amazed at how much time people have in-game to spend on pointless endeavours like that.
I've always seen stealth, as implemented in most MMORPGs, to be indefensible. Stealth is essentially instant, permanent invisibility in most games. How this is implemented is always to have the client PC not display the invisible character. That avatar isn't drawn, and there is no way to visually recognize the character, even when standing face-to-face. There isn't a mechanism (other senses) that can compensate for the artificial lack of vision.
Reversing this scenario, if a character projected an aura that jumbles the input for all characters affected (mouse and keyboard) making the 'normal' control interface useless, the outcry against that effect would be immense. The implementation of stealth uses the technology to deprive the player of sensory input (or control, in the case I've outlined). This is effectively meta-gaming, using elements outside the game to affect the game. By its very nature, it produces uneven and unbalanced play.
Implementing stealth as 'invisibility' without a chance of a countermeasure is lazy design, and really needs to be removed from all games.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
This thread is the epitome of dimwittedness. Doesn't refer to any particular game, doesn't refer to any specific version of the mechanic, is posted on a site that isn't hosted or directed to any company or dev team, and is only a line of whingy complaining. OP new to gaming? You could have just written this on a napkin and wiped your arse with it, would have the same end result.
No, stealth doesn't need to be removed. It is a fact of life in a PVP game, much like getting head-shot from a sniper hundreds of feet away in a Shooter. It happens. Deal with it.
What needs to change is you. Accept the fact that you're going to run into asshats that like clubbing baby seals with spiked hammers, or play another game.
Raquelis in various games Played: Everything Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6 Wants: The World Anticipating:Everquest NextCrowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
Ganking is the real issue here, unfair level advantage. MMO's usually balance high level pvp stealth play. I suggest that they dont allow you to see other players levels and this would happen less frequently because the cheap players will have more risk not knowing what level player they are attacking. I personally love stealth play but sitting in a lowbie area to gank easy targets is cheap and cowardly.
I've always seen stealth, as implemented in most MMORPGs, to be indefensible. Stealth is essentially instant, permanent invisibility in most games. How this is implemented is always to have the client PC not display the invisible character. That avatar isn't drawn, and there is no way to visually recognize the character, even when standing face-to-face. There isn't a mechanism (other senses) that can compensate for the artificial lack of vision.
Reversing this scenario, if a character projected an aura that jumbles the input for all characters affected (mouse and keyboard) making the 'normal' control interface useless, the outcry against that effect would be immense. The implementation of stealth uses the technology to deprive the player of sensory input (or control, in the case I've outlined). This is effectively meta-gaming, using elements outside the game to affect the game. By its very nature, it produces uneven and unbalanced play.
Implementing stealth as 'invisibility' without a chance of a countermeasure is lazy design, and really needs to be removed from all games.
funny is in Aion people even had radar hacks and show stealth hacks, the map since the aion radar only shows red dot in front of the char teh ahcks did remove it so the whole radar would even show people at his back, and the stealth hack is pretty much it would show the stealth char like he was in your party so don't matter you would see him, but at least he had to be out of combat to use stealth, and you also notice most bad players tend to choose classes or the stealth skill since there is no other way for then win, it also make me remember once in aion also when I was in asmo land doing some dailys.
I was ganked (no joke) by 5 assassins and 1 ranger and I as templar did win agaisnt then all, I was that marvelous pvp god? nope but they did several mistakes like attacking me when my shield was up and reflect up and killed one by one in the end I just lost half of my health and was AP capped in 3 min.
in GW2 stealth is annoying a thief and mesmer can use hide during combat and don't matter if you hit then they still keep the stealth, most games at least reveal anyone when hit by damage, archeage if he get close you can see him with is funny the morons trying to gank you in stealth and you are seeing then or when tehy complain stealth don't work on mobs because they can see then, ESO also did it like everyone ahve stealth and get too close you will reveal yourself, so at least you are forced to actually hide to not let a party see you
Stop rolling 'solo' and guess what ... you'll live longer.
This is probably the single, best way to survive an OW-PVP game. I ran around with a group 85% of the time on my Ranger and Huntress in Shadowbane. The other 15% of the time, i was one of those stealthers (with track) hunting other stealthers.
Raquelis in various games Played: Everything Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6 Wants: The World Anticipating:Everquest NextCrowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
Originally posted by CrazKanuk Originally posted by NitthOriginally posted by ghoul31Walking around invisible then backstabbing people and insta killing them is just stupid.It makes open pvp games a griefers paradise.
These types of characters have 1 chance to kill you because they are too squishy to defend themselves.What they are designed to do is take out maybe, 1 high profile threat and once exposed die at the hands of other players.Extreme 1:1 balance.It's usually more like some high-level player stun-locking some lowbie just to make their gaming experience crap.
That's not an issue with stealth. A higher lvl player does not need a stealth advantage to waste a lowbie.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Originally posted by Mendel Implementing stealth as 'invisibility' without a chance of a countermeasure is lazy design, and really needs to be removed from all games.
The counter measure is quite simple: don't put your self in a situation where you think a stealther could take advantage.
Travel with friends, Don't stand in open positions if you think there is risk.
Like i said previously, These classes have a very defined purpose and brings a very unique strategy to combat. Roguish characters are not of a fighter archetype so don't deprive them of playing the role of "the hunter".
People need to get out of this mindset of making every class the same with different animations.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Originally posted by Mendel Implementing stealth as 'invisibility' without a chance of a countermeasure is lazy design, and really needs to be removed from all games.
The counter measure is quite simple: don't put your self in a situation where you think a stealther could take advantage.
Travel with friends, Don't stand in open positions if you think there is risk.
Like i said previously, These classes have a very defined purpose and brings a very unique strategy to combat. Roguish characters are not of a fighter archetype so don't deprive them of playing the role of "the hunter".
People need to get out of this mindset of making every class the same with different animations.
Bingo! This is exactly the counter to stealthers, make sure they don't find you. Hunt in out of the way, difficult places to reach, where they are not likely to go. Bring friends, especially well tanked healers that can't be quickly killed, was quite common in DAOC to do this.
Probably the only thing I object to with most games stealth classes is when Dev's decide to add an ability to vanish after a fight has started.
Especially in PVP I feel if a stealther chooses to engage, he should not be able to disengage by stealthing again, he should have to either fight to the death or flee by conventional methods like everyone else.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If you are a high level play and you want to gank lowbies, it should at least be a challenge
You seem to miss the point of "ganking", it's not supposed to be a challenge. Otherwise, you'd call it a duel.
And, yea, in open world PvP, you will find ganking going on almost exclusively, either due to odds of 1vX, where X >> 1, or one player significantly outgearing, outleveling the other. Stealth just allows you to get a sucker punch in, or run away if you misjudge the gear level of your target.
But the real problem with that is that it isn't challenging
I certainly agree with that.
and very few people actually enjoy constantly defeating easy targets all the time.
What planet do you live on?!?
I don't know the origins of open world PvP, what game it started in and what purpose it served initially. I guess open world PvP "used to" be nice, where it allowed you to duel anyone at any time? When that got mixed with "progression", though, things went off kilter pretty quickly. Again, stealth just amplifies the issues of open world PvP in general.
Um, it's a PVP game... there are no rules... that's why it's called Player versus Player. If you wanted safe, you'd play a PVE only game.
Honestly, I don't understand why people play PVP games if they don't like the idea that they are going to be the ones that are being killed... all the time.
If it wasn't a single guy sneaking up on you, it would be a group mauling you. Either way, low levels are the prey, and always will be. There is no fair in PVP. Stop looking for it.
As somebody has sayed already - open world pvp is bad, it promote toxic behaviour and from a buisness standpoint it is bad for moneyz to have only PVP servers.
Im all in for a pvp in controled and balanced enviroment. If you want emotion try not paying the bills :P
Stealth in MMORPGs is an abomination. It's compounded by every developers insistance on turning thief classes into crit-happy hit and runners, rather than the awesome utility classes they were originally designed as in traditional pen and paper games.
Originally posted by Mendel Implementing stealth as 'invisibility' without a chance of a countermeasure is lazy design, and really needs to be removed from all games.
The counter measure is quite simple: don't put your self in a situation where you think a stealther could take advantage.
Travel with friends, Don't stand in open positions if you think there is risk.
Like i said previously, These classes have a very defined purpose and brings a very unique strategy to combat. Roguish characters are not of a fighter archetype so don't deprive them of playing the role of "the hunter".
People need to get out of this mindset of making every class the same with different animations.
Bingo! This is exactly the counter to stealthers, make sure they don't find you. Hunt in out of the way, difficult places to reach, where they are not likely to go. Bring friends, especially well tanked healers that can't be quickly killed, was quite common in DAOC to do this.
Probably the only thing I object to with most games stealth classes is when Dev's decide to add an ability to vanish after a fight has started.
Especially in PVP I feel if a stealther chooses to engage, he should not be able to disengage by stealthing again, he should have to either fight to the death or flee by conventional methods like everyone else.
so the way you see to counter stealth is using stealth?
If you are a high level play and you want to gank lowbies, it should at least be a challenge
You seem to miss the point of "ganking", it's not supposed to be a challenge. Otherwise, you'd call it a duel.
And, yea, in open world PvP, you will find ganking going on almost exclusively, either due to odds of 1vX, where X >> 1, or one player significantly outgearing, outleveling the other. Stealth just allows you to get a sucker punch in, or run away if you misjudge the gear level of your target.
But the real problem with that is that it isn't challenging
I certainly agree with that.
and very few people actually enjoy constantly defeating easy targets all the time.
What planet do you live on?!?
I don't know the origins of open world PvP, what game it started in and what purpose it served initially. I guess open world PvP "used to" be nice, where it allowed you to duel anyone at any time? When that got mixed with "progression", though, things went off kilter pretty quickly. Again, stealth just amplifies the issues of open world PvP in general.
I you are looking on PvE people are not really enjoying to defeat easy things, they just suck way more nowadays so what is easy for a MMO vet might be very hard for a new player. Computer games are generally a lot easier now so people don't need to learn to play that well.
Open world PvP started in Meridian 59 a while after launch, I played on a PvE server then though and didn't really start to MMO PvP until Lineages western beta in 2001. And yes, it was pretty much the same there even though it also had PvP (like wars between guilds and certain PvP zones on the PvE servers).
What is a fact is that games where people can gank other players without any chance of losing never really get high population, only one I can think of that did was UO and there you basically could choose between it, M59 and The realm so people had very little choice back then. Well, DaoC did pretty OK in the beginning as well but it was way more limited than UO.
The thing is that the mechanics of most MMOs are designed for PvE and that makes PvP far less then what it can be. If you want good PvP you need to severely lessen the powergap most games have.
Originally posted by Mendel Implementing stealth as 'invisibility' without a chance of a countermeasure is lazy design, and really needs to be removed from all games.
The counter measure is quite simple: don't put your self in a situation where you think a stealther could take advantage.
Travel with friends, Don't stand in open positions if you think there is risk.
Like i said previously, These classes have a very defined purpose and brings a very unique strategy to combat. Roguish characters are not of a fighter archetype so don't deprive them of playing the role of "the hunter".
People need to get out of this mindset of making every class the same with different animations.
Bingo! This is exactly the counter to stealthers, make sure they don't find you. Hunt in out of the way, difficult places to reach, where they are not likely to go. Bring friends, especially well tanked healers that can't be quickly killed, was quite common in DAOC to do this.
Probably the only thing I object to with most games stealth classes is when Dev's decide to add an ability to vanish after a fight has started.
Especially in PVP I feel if a stealther chooses to engage, he should not be able to disengage by stealthing again, he should have to either fight to the death or flee by conventional methods like everyone else.
so the way you see to counter stealth is using stealth?
Er where did I say that?
The way to counter stealth is to not make yourself an easy target, more of an avoidance technique.
Though in the AA alpha I included stealth in the my magic user build and very few people could gank me with all the evasive tricks I got through it and witchcraft (?) I believe.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Actually the biggest problem with stealth is how it throws a monkey-wrench into class balancing. Any class with stealth tends to get nailed balance-wise in any battle where they do not have the initial opening. You end up with say 2/3rds the damage and equal armor to say the caster classes to compensate for the initial 5x strike. This makes rogue classes stink on raids and oftentimes are not wanted AT ALL in serious groups outside of pvp.
So yes, I am in favor of significantly reducing the effectiveness of the stealth backstab gank thing, if only to make rogues less of a one-trick pony.
Actually the biggest problem with stealth is how it throws a monkey-wrench into class balancing. Any class with stealth tends to get nailed balance-wise in any battle where they do not have the initial opening. You end up with say 2/3rds the damage and equal armor to say the caster classes to compensate for the initial 5x strike. This makes rogue classes stink on raids and oftentimes are not wanted AT ALL in serious groups outside of pvp.
So yes, I am in favor of significantly reducing the effectiveness of the stealth backstab gank thing, if only to make rogues less of a one-trick pony.
Which is only an issue in a pvp game. There is no balancing issues in a co-op pve instance.
Other than PvP (and the OP's point), I really do not see stealth working well in MMOs. Ever try to stealth an area for a quest? Impossible as too many players mess it up by not using stealth. TES:O comes to mind with that starter open dungeon wearing bandit disguises. Nice idea, terrible implementation.
I know some will say, "Well... Instance that!" Ok. So you want a single player experience?
Even in PnP table top games, my DM/GM would roll his eyes when our "thief" type character would want to "scout ahead." Taking one player into another secluded room to resolve what happens leaves the rest of the players sitting around the table twiddling their thumbs. It usually ended with both the DM/GM and player returning and the DM/GM saying, "You hear shouts/sound of battle up ahead."
Stealth is a single player function, in my opinion, not a massively multiplayer function. The mechanic tends to separate players, not bring them together.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Comments
Yeah, but that's generally not the case. It's usually more like some high-level player stun-locking some lowbie just to make their gaming experience crap. I'm sometimes amazed at how much time people have in-game to spend on pointless endeavours like that.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
I've always seen stealth, as implemented in most MMORPGs, to be indefensible. Stealth is essentially instant, permanent invisibility in most games. How this is implemented is always to have the client PC not display the invisible character. That avatar isn't drawn, and there is no way to visually recognize the character, even when standing face-to-face. There isn't a mechanism (other senses) that can compensate for the artificial lack of vision.
Reversing this scenario, if a character projected an aura that jumbles the input for all characters affected (mouse and keyboard) making the 'normal' control interface useless, the outcry against that effect would be immense. The implementation of stealth uses the technology to deprive the player of sensory input (or control, in the case I've outlined). This is effectively meta-gaming, using elements outside the game to affect the game. By its very nature, it produces uneven and unbalanced play.
Implementing stealth as 'invisibility' without a chance of a countermeasure is lazy design, and really needs to be removed from all games.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Open world PVP at its finest!
No, stealth doesn't need to be removed. It is a fact of life in a PVP game, much like getting head-shot from a sniper hundreds of feet away in a Shooter. It happens. Deal with it.
What needs to change is you. Accept the fact that you're going to run into asshats that like clubbing baby seals with spiked hammers, or play another game.
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
this is just a non-problem, most games that have stealth also have a component to 'detect' the stealthers ....
seems like the big whine is that .. "Boo-Hoo I keep getting my ass handed to me"
in Mortal Online there is no stealth and it's 98.9% PvP where ever you go and guess what.... people still bitch about getting beat-up..
Stop rolling 'solo' and guess what ... you'll live longer.
Even if games didn't have a stealth mechanic ... some folks would still bitch about being :
a) killed by higher level player
b) killed by a ranged character
c) killed by pet of a player
d) killed by player while fighting an NPC
e) killed by a griefer group rolling by while I was afk in town
the list of reasons you died is endless ..... stop whining about it and play the class you hate to learn their 'weakness'
open PVP appeases only one group. Sociopaths and it should not exist..period.
PvP between warning clans or alliances is the way to go.
If you are not at war with a clan then you should not be able to be griefed.
funny is in Aion people even had radar hacks and show stealth hacks, the map since the aion radar only shows red dot in front of the char teh ahcks did remove it so the whole radar would even show people at his back, and the stealth hack is pretty much it would show the stealth char like he was in your party so don't matter you would see him, but at least he had to be out of combat to use stealth, and you also notice most bad players tend to choose classes or the stealth skill since there is no other way for then win, it also make me remember once in aion also when I was in asmo land doing some dailys.
I was ganked (no joke) by 5 assassins and 1 ranger and I as templar did win agaisnt then all, I was that marvelous pvp god? nope but they did several mistakes like attacking me when my shield was up and reflect up and killed one by one in the end I just lost half of my health and was AP capped in 3 min.
in GW2 stealth is annoying a thief and mesmer can use hide during combat and don't matter if you hit then they still keep the stealth, most games at least reveal anyone when hit by damage, archeage if he get close you can see him with is funny the morons trying to gank you in stealth and you are seeing then or when tehy complain stealth don't work on mobs because they can see then, ESO also did it like everyone ahve stealth and get too close you will reveal yourself, so at least you are forced to actually hide to not let a party see you
This is probably the single, best way to survive an OW-PVP game. I ran around with a group 85% of the time on my Ranger and Huntress in Shadowbane. The other 15% of the time, i was one of those stealthers (with track) hunting other stealthers.
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
It's usually more like some high-level player stun-locking some lowbie just to make their gaming experience crap.
That's not an issue with stealth.
A higher lvl player does not need a stealth advantage to waste a lowbie.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
The counter measure is quite simple: don't put your self in a situation where you think a stealther could take advantage.
Travel with friends, Don't stand in open positions if you think there is risk.
Like i said previously, These classes have a very defined purpose and brings a very unique strategy to combat. Roguish characters are not of a fighter archetype so don't deprive them of playing the role of "the hunter".
People need to get out of this mindset of making every class the same with different animations.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
I actually really enjoy stealth systems like that, like WoWs, sure there's "griefers", but sorry, that's the internet.
Games that have weird stealth systems, I can't actually think of any right now, but it's the reason I don't play them lol.
Bingo! This is exactly the counter to stealthers, make sure they don't find you. Hunt in out of the way, difficult places to reach, where they are not likely to go. Bring friends, especially well tanked healers that can't be quickly killed, was quite common in DAOC to do this.
Probably the only thing I object to with most games stealth classes is when Dev's decide to add an ability to vanish after a fight has started.
Especially in PVP I feel if a stealther chooses to engage, he should not be able to disengage by stealthing again, he should have to either fight to the death or flee by conventional methods like everyone else.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I certainly agree with that.
What planet do you live on?!?
I don't know the origins of open world PvP, what game it started in and what purpose it served initially. I guess open world PvP "used to" be nice, where it allowed you to duel anyone at any time? When that got mixed with "progression", though, things went off kilter pretty quickly. Again, stealth just amplifies the issues of open world PvP in general.
Um, it's a PVP game... there are no rules... that's why it's called Player versus Player. If you wanted safe, you'd play a PVE only game.
Honestly, I don't understand why people play PVP games if they don't like the idea that they are going to be the ones that are being killed... all the time.
If it wasn't a single guy sneaking up on you, it would be a group mauling you. Either way, low levels are the prey, and always will be. There is no fair in PVP. Stop looking for it.
As somebody has sayed already - open world pvp is bad, it promote toxic behaviour and from a buisness standpoint it is bad for moneyz to have only PVP servers.
Im all in for a pvp in controled and balanced enviroment. If you want emotion try not paying the bills :P
so the way you see to counter stealth is using stealth?
I you are looking on PvE people are not really enjoying to defeat easy things, they just suck way more nowadays so what is easy for a MMO vet might be very hard for a new player. Computer games are generally a lot easier now so people don't need to learn to play that well.
Open world PvP started in Meridian 59 a while after launch, I played on a PvE server then though and didn't really start to MMO PvP until Lineages western beta in 2001. And yes, it was pretty much the same there even though it also had PvP (like wars between guilds and certain PvP zones on the PvE servers).
What is a fact is that games where people can gank other players without any chance of losing never really get high population, only one I can think of that did was UO and there you basically could choose between it, M59 and The realm so people had very little choice back then. Well, DaoC did pretty OK in the beginning as well but it was way more limited than UO.
The thing is that the mechanics of most MMOs are designed for PvE and that makes PvP far less then what it can be. If you want good PvP you need to severely lessen the powergap most games have.
Er where did I say that?
The way to counter stealth is to not make yourself an easy target, more of an avoidance technique.
Though in the AA alpha I included stealth in the my magic user build and very few people could gank me with all the evasive tricks I got through it and witchcraft (?) I believe.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I would like to see a "Predator" type of approach
If you remember that movie the Predator would be completely invisible when stationary but you could tell something was amiss when the creature moved.
I believe this type of mechanic would be a lot more entertaining for everyone involved.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Actually the biggest problem with stealth is how it throws a monkey-wrench into class balancing. Any class with stealth tends to get nailed balance-wise in any battle where they do not have the initial opening. You end up with say 2/3rds the damage and equal armor to say the caster classes to compensate for the initial 5x strike. This makes rogue classes stink on raids and oftentimes are not wanted AT ALL in serious groups outside of pvp.
So yes, I am in favor of significantly reducing the effectiveness of the stealth backstab gank thing, if only to make rogues less of a one-trick pony.
Which is only an issue in a pvp game. There is no balancing issues in a co-op pve instance.
Other than PvP (and the OP's point), I really do not see stealth working well in MMOs. Ever try to stealth an area for a quest? Impossible as too many players mess it up by not using stealth. TES:O comes to mind with that starter open dungeon wearing bandit disguises. Nice idea, terrible implementation.
I know some will say, "Well... Instance that!" Ok. So you want a single player experience?
Even in PnP table top games, my DM/GM would roll his eyes when our "thief" type character would want to "scout ahead." Taking one player into another secluded room to resolve what happens leaves the rest of the players sitting around the table twiddling their thumbs. It usually ended with both the DM/GM and player returning and the DM/GM saying, "You hear shouts/sound of battle up ahead."
Stealth is a single player function, in my opinion, not a massively multiplayer function. The mechanic tends to separate players, not bring them together.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR