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Voodoo (#2 progress guild worldwide) quits WildStar.
http://voodoo-guild.com/content/
http://www.reddit.com/r/WildStar/comments/2goklu/voodoo_quits_wildstar/
Top progress guilds quitting less than 4 months after release is definitely a bad sign.
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Comments
How long have they been playing before release tho?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Not surprised really. If hardcore are quitting imagine the state of casual guilds.
I was the first in my guild to quit but now rest of my guildies have also decided to go back to WOW.
I however will join them once WOD is out.
Did we go back in time 2 years to Rift again? I remember their goodbyes there as well. I'm going to take a wild guess and say Voodoo will quit the next MMO in another 2 years.
I'm not knocking the guild, which i have no personal connection to, or the game, which i didn't like. I'm just stating the obvious in that guilds don't stick to MMO's through the rough patches anymore. This will continue to occur with every new launch. It's just the way it is.
Of course i'm not blaming the guilds as the players and devs are equally responsible. We saw this in Rift and i was surprised Wildstar didn't attempt to fix the glaring issue with a hardcore raiding environment.
In order for guilds to survive, they need new players to be able to replace ones that quit and move on. Unfortunately for both games this involved recruiting or even stealing good players from other guilds. This set off an inevitable chain reaction where fewer and fewer guilds were even able to field a full roster. Eventually you run out of quality and the game becomes unfun for those expecting a certain level of "player skill".
Seems that the pool of players who want to raid 6-7 days a week is smaller than they anticipated. It's not necessarily a lack of players with the skill to be at the time. Not at world first level. You have to be really good, AND be able to play full time job hours.
When my guild was disbanded upon us because leaders were quitting and just shut it all down, many members were approached by world first guilds since we had a 20 man that had cleared Genetic Archives. We raided 16 hours a week, (4 hours per raid, 4 days a week). But making a jump from that schedule to 5 hours 6-7 days is an enormous jump that almost none of us (I think one did) wanted to make the commitment for.
It works in WoW because it's only a month or so before you clear hard modes, that is not the case for Wildstar. You can take a few weeks off work and do the heavy lifting of learning a raid in WoW. There is still nobody to clear the 40 man in Wildstar. The amount of players that can raid at their pace for an extended period of time is VERY small, even amongst the community of players that call themselves "hardcore"
I saw a post on the forums where someone from Enigma said [paraphrased] "After the initial push we drop our schedule down to a 20 hour a week schedule".....that is a level that even most hardcore players don't want to go.
The other factor that makes it work in WoW is the population. There are a lot more players in WoW than Wildstar, so the chances of there being that type of player are greater. With a smaller population, they are probably much more rare.
I can fly higher than an aeroplane.
And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes.
Hurt - Wars
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
From one of Voodoo's players on why they are leaving:
"We didn't quit because attunment or 40 mans. There's been plenty of replacements( and honestly people who aren't motivated/not skilled enough to get attuned have no place in a world progression guild), we quit because DS is a horribly Buggy mess in mechanics"
". Like reverendbaka said in the other thread, it's sad because W* is amazingly fun compared to other tab targeting mmos. But we won't feel like we're "live beta testing" in WoW at least."
Hence, one the main reason WoW is still the big dog by far in the MMO/Raiding scene.
I can fly higher than an aeroplane.
And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes.
Hurt - Wars
I imagine they've done everything there is to do, and now they're bored and moving on to the next challenge, whatever that may be.
Seems like a natural thing for a guild that's focused heavily on one specific aspect of play. So while it may not be unusual, it does make the devs' decision to focus on those kinds of players one of questionable wisdom.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
I already posted their actual reasons for them leaving in this thread, so not sure why people are still speculating.
They are not leaving due to 40 mans, they are not leaving due to the attunements, they are not leaving because they are "bored"....they are leaving because the raids are a buggy mess and basically still in beta.
An exact quote from Voodoo:
"Like reverendbaka said in the other thread, it's sad because W* is amazingly fun compared to other tab targeting mmos. But we won't feel like we're "live beta testing" in WoW at least."
Riding the "World First"/"Realm First"/"Faction First" train as far as the months of beta knowledge carry you, then bail out when things get rough, hmmm?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Or they got tired of spending hours each day in frustration, running buggy raid encounters, having Carbine tweak them (adding/removing actual fight mechanics) on a weekly basis, causing them to "relearn" the fights each week because Carbine keeps changing them due to the fights not being properly tested/implemented. Buggy raids is a perfetly legit gripe that most hardcore guilds have with raids in many MMOs, and a big reason why most leave. It happened to SWTOR, it happened to Rift....its happening to Wildstar. Regardless of what anyone would like to think about WoW and why its so popular, this is percisly one of the main reasons why its still around, and still by far number 1. If your only response is "they are just lieing", you need to take a long look in the mirror.
it was 'amazing fun' remember. What part was amazing fun?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
The combat and class mechanics can be amaizingly fun, in addition to the raid encounts being buggy.....do you think those 2 things are mutually exclusive????
Do you know hardcore raids have a history of buggy encounters, including WOW. If a game is fun then people are happy to wait as was done in the past until bugs get resolved, thats what Blizzard got right in the earlier days. So no they are not mutually exclusive, so why quit? was the buggy encounters the only part they had amazing fun on, but then it cant be because its buggy. I'm assuming then it would be amazing again when the bugs are fixed - so is it a patience thing?
Personally I would say raiding is a dying form, spending 25 hours or so a week repeating the same content over and over and over and over for 10 years + takes its toll and the problem with very hardcore guilds is that their only pleasure left in mmo is that little over and over bit and getting to number 1. Number 2 does not give the adrenalin hit, and a bug in that over and over bit = drama and guild collapse because the game offers nothing more to them, certainly not amazing fun.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
There is a balance between reward - the fun bit - and effort - the putting up with the bugs bit and all the negatives that that brings. The tipping point varies from individual to individual but when the effort involved exceeds the reqard gained people leave.
And to fix the issues Carbine will need to devote resources to the task. So more people leave so resources are squeezed further. Downward spiral.
Bottomline: stuff should be tested before release.
Vault of Glass (raid) came out on Tuesday. Intense. Very varied mechanics. Huge - something Blizzard would have rolled out over 3 or 4 drops. The (one) raid team that got through it on Tuesday took just about 12 hours (most challenging raid ever done they called it). And it was bug free.
So...going back to WoW...
Voodoo is the 2nd place guild....even the first placed guild has admitted that WoW still has the better raids....why would you "lol" at raiders going back to the game with the better raids?
Or are u laughing at Wildstar....
You need to actually do some research on this topic before you comment further....
Its clear as day on their front page........they arnt quitting wildstar....they are quitting their raid progression in wildstar (due to the previously mentioned issues). They still say the game is "the most fun MMO on the market", and they arn't shutting the door on picking raiding back up if Carbine somehow addresses the glaring issues with the raid encounters...they just dont feel its worth it to dedicate hours a day (most world first guilds in wow for instance, raid 16 hours a day until the tier is cleared) to essentially "live beta test" Carbine's raid encounters, especially when there are better raiding options on the market (which wasnt really the case in vanilla WoW).. I am sure you can appriciate that, no?
That pretty much addresses everything you wrote...
I can assure you that WoW does not have "better" Raids. WoW has nothing better compared to any of the new MMOs, except having more people. People keep going back to it like the drug addict goes to get his/her "fix". It's sad really, many people want a "new" kind of MMO but keep supporting the "old" one.
To Blizzard...
I haven't cleared Wildstar's raids, so all I can do is take the word of those who have....and those who have, disagree with you.