There is a reason for LP and it's not to get you to buy it, but to slow players down from mass producing everything and basically flooding the market. This game is all about time... your supposed to spend a lot of time. That doesn't mean time doing something productive... just letting time pass by. You can do this out of game if you are a Patron or in-game if you are not a Patron. Hell I see just as many AFK Patrons as I do F2Pers... so clearly they prefer the 10/5 regen over 5/5.
So in a nutshell, mass production is met with head on resistance for a reason. You either work the system or the system works you. ATM, you are getting worked by the system. STOP BUYING LP, regen it. Hell I'm a F2P player and haven't spent a dime on the game and I managed to open over 1500 coin purses ranging from 1-5 LP to open each. How the hell did I do it? By working the system. This is not a game in which you can *play* all the time unless you are questing or PVPing... those activities aren't tied to LP. Anything that is tied to LP requires that you spend a good portion of time doing absolutely nothing... if, you prefer not to quest or PVP.
There is a reason for LP and it's not to get you to buy it, but to slow players down from mass producing everything and basically flooding the market. This game is all about time... your supposed to spend a lot of time. That doesn't mean time doing something productive... just letting time pass by. You can do this out of game if you are a Patron or in-game if you are not a Patron. Hell I see just as many AFK Patrons as I do F2Pers... so clearly they prefer the 10/5 regen over 5/5.
So in a nutshell, mass production is met with head on resistance for a reason. You either work the system or the system works you. ATM, you are getting worked by the system. STOP BUYING LP, regen it. Hell I'm a F2P player and haven't spent a dime on the game and I managed to open over 1500 coin purses ranging from 1-5 LP to open each. How the hell did I do it? By working the system. This is not a game in which you can *play* all the time unless you are questing or PVPing... those activities aren't tied to LP. Anything that is tied to LP requires that you spend a good portion of time doing absolutely nothing... if, you prefer not to quest or PVP.
You're right, however i disagree that LP is a good enough system. I much prefer Item decay to remove production from the market. Putting an artificial cap on what i can do in my playtime is idiotic and honestly after a certain amount of time the market will inevitably be flooded anyways due to sheer volume of players crafting things over periods of time with NOTHING ever ever being removed. LP is a joke
Soooooo... now that you're done levelling and thus presumably don't need to quest anymore, what are you going to do when your labor runs low now?
I am working on farming my hasla weapon, still doing quests because I am leveling a tank spec, world PvP, would like to check out arenas at some point. I am also a member of a large mercenary guild so I spend time doing escorts, trade runs, executing hits, etc.
Originally posted by Gravarg I wanted to be a Shipwright (builder of ships) and I've made some decent coin building them and parts for other people who pay me to make them. The problem is the Labor Points required for ship building is extremely high. Fishing and Ship Building are all I want to do in this game. If I wanted to PvP, I'd go play ESO, which has a much better system. If I wanted to PvE, I'd go play WoW, which still has the best system for that. In AA I just wanted to spend all my time Fishing and Ship Building. I feel as a paying customer, I should be able to do whatever I want, especially since it's supposed to be a "sandbox". My job affords me the option to play a lot at work as well (being the boss is good lol). So I do play a lot, probably a lot more than the average player, but in other games like ESO and WoW, I can play all day everyday, how I want to play, and it's still only $15 a month. I have bought a few LP pots with gold, but it's not enough. My main gripe is that even if you buy things with ingame gold, you're still held back a lot by labor points. Patrons should have unlimited Labor Points imho.
You are incorrect. The game is designed and optimized for the "typical, core player". This "ideal" target does not play 8 hours a day, nor does he/she want to concentrate only one or two activities to the exclusion of all else.
In fact, players on the extremes tend to upset the over balance of the game and they will either attempt to limit your impact on the game or take advantage of your obsession and exploit you for your money.
Being a sandbox has nothing to do with letting players do what they want, it does provide more open opportunities and offer a more open game world to explore, but in your case you need to take a hard look at what other activities you need to do in game (trade runs, farm, harvesting) in order to raise enough gold to buy the labor points you need to focus on your favored shipbuilding activities.
When you perfect your model, you will achieve a balance where you are doing a minimum amount of "undesireable" activities and spending more of your time on the activities.
BTW, if fishing and ship building are so good, why don't they generate enough gold to pay for your labor points? Like I said, if they are not profitable yet, you will need to start doing some activities that are to fund them in the interim.
Sandbox MMO's are really about overcoming the challenges and limitation the game's systems have built into them and achieving greatness despite the obstacles that everyone must face.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Sandbox MMO's are really about overcoming the challenges and limitation the game's systems have built into them and achieving greatness despite the obstacles that everyone must face.
....when the heck did sandboxes become about THAT? O_o
I thought the whole point of sandboxes was freedom, not the other way around...
....when the heck did sandboxes become about THAT? O_o
I thought the whole point of sandboxes was freedom, not the other way around...
My goodness people, sandbox does not mean that you are entitled to participate in every aspect of the game. What sandbox means is that you are free to do whatever you would like within the constructs of the box. You can do whatever you would like with the tools provided but sandbox does not mean that everyone will be able to have everything they want as people control the world not the game. I am honestly not a big fan of open world housing for this reason but I understand the concept.
AA is a game of supply and demand, not every human on the planet owns a house, a car, a farm etc, obviously for various reasons. If you wish to own prime real estate in NYC you will be expected to pay a ridiculous amount to do so because space is limited, AA is the same way.
Please stop thinking sandbox means that every player will have access to every aspect of the game exactly when they want, it just means that you can roam free in a world and chose the tasks you wish to tackle.
Originally posted by jesteralways Labor point this, labor point that..labor point is the core of this game, get used to it. it is never going away but if you continue to complain about it then XLGames might force trion to change Labor point system to original korean version : 3000 points for all player, no regen, reset on monday and the only way to regen LP is to buy pots from cash shop. will you guys be happy then?
Now we're getting closer. Still need a little bit more to match the whaling-business-model-based facebook games, but we're getting there! Just need to up the ante on materials and upgrade boosters in the cash shop and... hmm, perhaps some "Recharge $500 and get a special glider!" promotions...
No Jester, I'd be happy if they returned it to the original item decay they had in place before LP.
They never had item decay in any of their playable version, it was a feature in their Alpha version and alpha means real alpha in which they hired professional gamers to test the game for them. and it was a disaster, terribly implemented system which their alpha testers said to improve but they could not improve it any way which could lessen/prevent the "scam" invented by alpha testers. and the reason why labor point was introduced in their 1st beta event was also the alpha testers, thanks to unlimited crafting opportunity epic items were less than epic and item decay became meaningless too, since anyone could replace items as soon as one piece has gone to 0 durability. there were many things they thought of before implementing labor point, unlimited crafting or gathering or fishing doesn't even make a sense in a competitive sandbox game, labor point system actually makes the game more competitive and also give a real life vibe. i wish there were some type of combat fatigue system too like Project Gorgon's POWER system, but it is me just wishing for more challenge which will make the game more cliche.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
I can't see a point where playing AA will actually cost me a penny past this point.
Think about what you just said there... if they truly offered an experience no one had to pay a penny for past this point, they'd go under in a matter of months.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I can't see a point where playing AA will actually cost me a penny past this point.
Think about what you just said there... if they truly offered an experience no one had to pay a penny for past this point, they'd go under in a matter of months.
Isn't that a bit over the top? There are successful games that you don't have to spend a penny to play after a certain point that have been around for years.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Originally posted by Spankster77 My goodness people, sandbox does not mean that you are entitled to participate in every aspect of the game. What sandbox means is that you are free to do whatever you would like within the constructs of the box. You can do whatever you would like with the tools provided but sandbox does not mean that everyone will be able to have everything they want as people control the world not the game. I am honestly not a big fan of open world housing for this reason but I understand the concept. AA is a game of supply and demand, not every human on the planet owns a house, a car, a farm etc, obviously for various reasons. If you wish to own prime real estate in NYC you will be expected to pay a ridiculous amount to do so because space is limited, AA is the same way. Please stop thinking sandbox means that every player will have access to every aspect of the game exactly when they want, it just means that you can roam free in a world and chose the tasks you wish to tackle. http://www.techopedia.com/definition/3952/sandbox-gaming
Simplicity is good, oversimplification is not.
...or did you just truly tried to imply that AA economy is as complex as NYC real estate market?
Originally posted by jesteralways Labor point this, labor point that..labor point is the core of this game, get used to it. it is never going away but if you continue to complain about it then XLGames might force trion to change Labor point system to original korean version : 3000 points for all player, no regen, reset on monday and the only way to regen LP is to buy pots from cash shop. will you guys be happy then?
Now we're getting closer. Still need a little bit more to match the whaling-business-model-based facebook games, but we're getting there! Just need to up the ante on materials and upgrade boosters in the cash shop and... hmm, perhaps some "Recharge $500 and get a special glider!" promotions...
No Jester, I'd be happy if they returned it to the original item decay they had in place before LP.
They never had item decay in any of their playable version, it was a feature in their Alpha version and alpha means real alpha in which they hired professional gamers to test the game for them. and it was a disaster, terribly implemented system which their alpha testers said to improve but they could not improve it any way which could lessen/prevent the "scam" invented by alpha testers. and the reason why labor point was introduced in their 1st beta event was also the alpha testers, thanks to unlimited crafting opportunity epic items were less than epic and item decay became meaningless too, since anyone could replace items as soon as one piece has gone to 0 durability. there were many things they thought of before implementing labor point, unlimited crafting or gathering or fishing doesn't even make a sense in a competitive sandbox game, labor point system actually makes the game more competitive and also give a real life vibe. i wish there were some type of combat fatigue system too like Project Gorgon's POWER system, but it is me just wishing for more challenge which will make the game more cliche.
Thats actually technically wrong it wasn't just in their aplha version it was in the korean CBT as well I was there. I still disagree and prefer the Item Decay system over LP.
...or did you just truly tried to imply that AA economy is as complex as NYC real estate market?
What I am saying is that land is limited in the game, the same as it is in RL. People yammering on about "All the land is taken and I can't place my farm/house, this game sucks..." is ridiculous in a game where the world is controlled by the playerbase. I wasn't talking about complexity, I was talking about supply and demand.
The only way for this issue to ever be rectified would be if Trion/XL switched housing over to be instanced the way it is in Wildstar or they limited the number of plots that each account could own... Both of those things would cause huge pushback from the community.
Having anything but the players available time meter their time in the game goes against the core of mmo play. Labor points may be a core sink in this game, but it may end up sinking the game.
I'm having a blast.. cost me $15 and I'll get a second month free due to their issues at start. I have land... gather... refine.. make trade runs...
Pretty good value for me. Not sure I'll be playing it 6 months from now.... but right now I find it to be a heck of a lot of fun.
I'm enjoying the heck out of this game, as well. I joined BlackWater Trading Co on Aranzeb and they're a nice mix of crafting, farming and occasional PvP. I'm currently using temp gardens to grow my trees and spices, and we have some guild-accessible buildings to trade resources, do crafting and pitch in toward projects like our recent merchant ship.
HOWEVER...
The labor system is borderline insidious, functioning the same way as Vegas digital slot machines. Here's how it works:
You get a certain automatic supply of points over time. In slot machines, this is usually in the form of 'leveling' bonus or some other 'gimme'.
Initially you are spending a certain amount of points to get a certain return from harvesting, coinpurses, etc. As the value of the returns goes up, so does the cost in points to do it. To use coin purses as an example:
1 labor point = 1 silver and change
2 labor points = 2 silver and change
3 labor points = 3 silver and change
and so on.
To the user, this returns seem to increase equally, despite the return being approximately
1 labor point = 1 and ~50% of 1
2 labor points = 2 and ~25% of 2
3 labor points = 3 and ~14% of 3
That's rather insignificant, though, when you remember that the automatic point allotment remains a constant.
The user sees payouts that increase with the points they invest, and the natural reaction is to try to do more to compensate for the gradually reducing point pool. On the surface, that seems to make sense, but the user is not taking into consideration that those freebie or bonus points they were getting do not increase. While the slot machine players were often slightly ahead at the 1-cent level, at the 5-cent level - where the winning payouts are five times higher - the bonus cash no longer is enough to fill in for losses, leading to gradually losing money. The user often shifts to a higher tier, hoping the bigger payouts will compensate for the shrinking point supply. This, in turn, only makes the pool shrink faster. In slot machines, the greater rewards incentivize the user to keep upping the amount they are putting in per pull.
In ArcheAge, the money is in buying those points, either through subscription or the cash shop. Yes, players can buy the Work Comp potions with gold, but that's far more math and process than most players want to do. If nothing else, it's far less convenient than buying patron status or Work Comp potions off the item mall.
For the posters that say some MMO cash shops are designed to be casino/gambling hooks, this game is your shining example.
I enjoy the game immensely and I'm amazed at many of the cool features the game has to offer, but I'm not going to beat around the bush on the labor point system - it is built like a modern Vegas slot machine.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by Loktofeit I'm enjoying the heck out of this game, as well. I joined BlackWater Trading Co on Aranzeb and they're a nice mix of crafting, farming and occasional PvP. I'm currently using temp gardens to grow my trees and spices, and we have some guild-accessible buildings to trade resources, do crafting and pitch in toward projects like our recent merchant ship. HOWEVER...The labor system is borderline insidious, functioning the same way as Vegas digital slot machines. Here's how it works:You get a certain automatic supply of points over time. In slot machines, this is usually in the form of 'leveling' bonus or some other 'gimme'. Initially you are spending a certain amount of points to get a certain return from harvesting, coinpurses, etc. As the value of the returns goes up, so does the cost in points to do it. To use coin purses as an example:1 labor point = 1 silver and change 2 labor points = 2 silver and change 3 labor points = 3 silver and change and so on. To the user, this returns seem to increase equally, despite the return being approximately 1 labor point = 1 and ~50% of 12 labor points = 2 and ~25% of 23 labor points = 3 and ~14% of 3 That's rather insignificant, though, when you remember that the automatic point allotment remains a constant. The user sees payouts that increase with the points they invest, and the natural reaction is to try to do more to compensate for the gradually reducing point pool. On the surface, that seems to make sense, but the user is not taking into consideration that those freebie or bonus points they were getting do not increase. While the slot machine players were often slightly ahead at the 1-cent level, at the 5-cent level - where the winning payouts are five times higher - the bonus cash no longer is enough to fill in for losses, leading to gradually losing money. The user often shifts to a higher tier, hoping the bigger payouts will compensate for the shrinking point supply. This, in turn, only makes the pool shrink faster. In slot machines, the greater rewards incentivize the user to keep upping the amount they are putting in per pull. In ArcheAge, the money is in buying those points, either through subscription or the cash shop. Yes, players can buy the Work Comp potions with gold, but that's far more math and process than most players want to do. If nothing else, it's far less convenient than buying patron status or Work Comp potions off the item mall. For the posters that say some MMO cash shops are designed to be casino/gambling hooks, this game is your shining example. I enjoy the game immensely and I'm amazed at many of the cool features the game has to offer, but I'm not going to beat around the bush on the labor point system - it is built like a modern Vegas slot machine.
Labor system itself, the concept, is fine. The true issue is F2P payment model which makes whole system pointless and nearly everything in the game being tied to LP people make alts to gain massive amounts of LP and no room for gameplay allowing excess of LP.
The game is just poorly designed and not thought out.
I am wondering, did you change your mind about the game? You did not seem to be so fond of it, or that is how it looked to me.
My review of the game is that it's pretty much perfect. I love just about everything about the game except one major problem. Greed. My math may be wrong, but I've spent over $200 on this game, and I still find myself without Labor Points. Without Labor Points you can't do anything at all except combat. I wanted to play this game not for the combat, it's typical boring tab targeting combat, and other games do it much better. I wanted to play this game for the crafting and economy.
I can look past the launch problems, those always fix themselves after a month or two. The one thing I cannot look past is that Trion expects their Patrons (subscribers) to pay even more money to play the game. Every 12 hours you can buy 1,000 Labor Points from the store for 300 credits. 750 credits cost $5. This comes out to a subscription fee of $135 a month minimum for me. Then there's things like Archeum and such you can also buy from the store. There isn't a game I could even dream of that is worth a $135/month subscription.
Greed ruins yet another great game just like Neverwinter.
Setting a really low bar with Neverwinter.
If you are part of a guild you can achieve goals by having people with extra labor gather and combine base components needed for you and then you can use your labor on the finishing of products.
This way you will still advance alot faster than casuals that are using labor for gathering and combining and finished products.
Also if you are crafting alone without back-up from guild then expect your pace to be more similar to casual which will be slow.
This game for many is not a short race but a long hike. Something you take your time with and make progress for a good while....then take breaks.
Also how many hours per day playing a game is considered an addiction? My guess would be over 5 hours. Most crafting done in the game you will be just fine a few hours a day since part of that is you are doing it all yourself is used traveling around from point A to B.
Are there exceptions to this? Sure....underwater mining you are go thru labor very fast. But that is due to the fact it gives a resource needed in higher end crafting recipes.
Maybe dial back your expectations a bit and play it for 3 hours and then go for a walk or do something active....or read a book.
Labor system itself, the concept, is fine. The true issue is F2P payment model which makes whole system pointless and nearly everything in the game being tied to LP people make alts to gain massive amounts of LP and no room for gameplay allowing excess of LP.
The game is just poorly designed and not thought out.
I am wondering, did you change your mind about the game? You did not seem to be so fond of it, or that is how it looked to me.
Labor is pulled across the account so how does creating alts help this?
This argument never ceases to amaze me. If you need labor pots, why pay real money for them? You can easily make gold in this game and then buy pots. On my server they are 5-7g each. Doing solo trade runs, you can make that in under an hour. Not to mention buying Apex, at 35-45g, so 2 of them being 90g at the most to buy a month subscription. Not liking the game because you are spending too much money is entirely your own fault. In a guild, one 1-hour trade run with a bunch of people could net you a hundred gold. Learn to play the game first.
Labor system itself, the concept, is fine. The true issue is F2P payment model which makes whole system pointless and nearly everything in the game being tied to LP people make alts to gain massive amounts of LP and no room for gameplay allowing excess of LP.
The game is just poorly designed and not thought out.
I am wondering, did you change your mind about the game? You did not seem to be so fond of it, or that is how it looked to me.
I don't think the game is poorly thought out. I think it's got a heavy emphasis on the gamification of the business model.
As for my views of the game, I don't think i have expressed any really outside of my dislike for the whole "and then at 30 everything is PVP" thing, however the game is designed such that crafters, farmers and merchants can regulate their exposure to the PVP to suit their personal comfort levels. I kinda like that.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I can't see a point where playing AA will actually cost me a penny past this point.
Think about what you just said there... if they truly offered an experience no one had to pay a penny for past this point, they'd go under in a matter of months.
OFC I have thought about what I have said.
I have never said that time poor people don't pay to be on an even keel with more hardcore players. Because that's all in reality buying stuff like labour pots for real money really offers.
My point is that you don't create a game where a good percentage of your players can play for free if you are 'greedy'.
I can't see a point where playing AA will actually cost me a penny past this point.
Think about what you just said there... if they truly offered an experience no one had to pay a penny for past this point, they'd go under in a matter of months.
OFC I have thought about what I have said.
I have never said that time poor people don't pay to be on an even keel with more hardcore players. Because that's all in reality buying stuff like labour pots for real money really offers.
My point is that you don't create a game where a good percentage of your players can play for free if you are 'greedy'.
Actually, in pretty much every F2P game, 90% of the revenue is provided by like, 10% of the players. They're still greedy as hell. An executive of a company that has lots of F2P games even basically said as much in a business presentation that you can find on the net if you search (Search R2Games).
You DO create a game "where a good percentage of your players can play for free" if you are greedy and if that's how you make bigger profits. There's a reason why F2P is taking over as the premier business strategy with the exception of WoW and maybe FFIV:ARR
Comments
There is a reason for LP and it's not to get you to buy it, but to slow players down from mass producing everything and basically flooding the market. This game is all about time... your supposed to spend a lot of time. That doesn't mean time doing something productive... just letting time pass by. You can do this out of game if you are a Patron or in-game if you are not a Patron. Hell I see just as many AFK Patrons as I do F2Pers... so clearly they prefer the 10/5 regen over 5/5.
So in a nutshell, mass production is met with head on resistance for a reason. You either work the system or the system works you. ATM, you are getting worked by the system. STOP BUYING LP, regen it. Hell I'm a F2P player and haven't spent a dime on the game and I managed to open over 1500 coin purses ranging from 1-5 LP to open each. How the hell did I do it? By working the system. This is not a game in which you can *play* all the time unless you are questing or PVPing... those activities aren't tied to LP. Anything that is tied to LP requires that you spend a good portion of time doing absolutely nothing... if, you prefer not to quest or PVP.
You're right, however i disagree that LP is a good enough system. I much prefer Item decay to remove production from the market. Putting an artificial cap on what i can do in my playtime is idiotic and honestly after a certain amount of time the market will inevitably be flooded anyways due to sheer volume of players crafting things over periods of time with NOTHING ever ever being removed. LP is a joke
I am working on farming my hasla weapon, still doing quests because I am leveling a tank spec, world PvP, would like to check out arenas at some point. I am also a member of a large mercenary guild so I spend time doing escorts, trade runs, executing hits, etc.
You are incorrect. The game is designed and optimized for the "typical, core player". This "ideal" target does not play 8 hours a day, nor does he/she want to concentrate only one or two activities to the exclusion of all else.
In fact, players on the extremes tend to upset the over balance of the game and they will either attempt to limit your impact on the game or take advantage of your obsession and exploit you for your money.
Being a sandbox has nothing to do with letting players do what they want, it does provide more open opportunities and offer a more open game world to explore, but in your case you need to take a hard look at what other activities you need to do in game (trade runs, farm, harvesting) in order to raise enough gold to buy the labor points you need to focus on your favored shipbuilding activities.
When you perfect your model, you will achieve a balance where you are doing a minimum amount of "undesireable" activities and spending more of your time on the activities.
BTW, if fishing and ship building are so good, why don't they generate enough gold to pay for your labor points? Like I said, if they are not profitable yet, you will need to start doing some activities that are to fund them in the interim.
Sandbox MMO's are really about overcoming the challenges and limitation the game's systems have built into them and achieving greatness despite the obstacles that everyone must face.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
....when the heck did sandboxes become about THAT? O_o
I thought the whole point of sandboxes was freedom, not the other way around...
My goodness people, sandbox does not mean that you are entitled to participate in every aspect of the game. What sandbox means is that you are free to do whatever you would like within the constructs of the box. You can do whatever you would like with the tools provided but sandbox does not mean that everyone will be able to have everything they want as people control the world not the game. I am honestly not a big fan of open world housing for this reason but I understand the concept.
AA is a game of supply and demand, not every human on the planet owns a house, a car, a farm etc, obviously for various reasons. If you wish to own prime real estate in NYC you will be expected to pay a ridiculous amount to do so because space is limited, AA is the same way.
Please stop thinking sandbox means that every player will have access to every aspect of the game exactly when they want, it just means that you can roam free in a world and chose the tasks you wish to tackle.
http://www.techopedia.com/definition/3952/sandbox-gaming
They never had item decay in any of their playable version, it was a feature in their Alpha version and alpha means real alpha in which they hired professional gamers to test the game for them. and it was a disaster, terribly implemented system which their alpha testers said to improve but they could not improve it any way which could lessen/prevent the "scam" invented by alpha testers. and the reason why labor point was introduced in their 1st beta event was also the alpha testers, thanks to unlimited crafting opportunity epic items were less than epic and item decay became meaningless too, since anyone could replace items as soon as one piece has gone to 0 durability. there were many things they thought of before implementing labor point, unlimited crafting or gathering or fishing doesn't even make a sense in a competitive sandbox game, labor point system actually makes the game more competitive and also give a real life vibe. i wish there were some type of combat fatigue system too like Project Gorgon's POWER system, but it is me just wishing for more challenge which will make the game more cliche.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Think about what you just said there... if they truly offered an experience no one had to pay a penny for past this point, they'd go under in a matter of months.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I spent literally 0 € and I'm having a ton of fun.
Patron , 4 big farms, 1000G in my pockets, without spending 1 € !
Isn't that a bit over the top? There are successful games that you don't have to spend a penny to play after a certain point that have been around for years.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Simplicity is good, oversimplification is not.
...or did you just truly tried to imply that AA economy is as complex as NYC real estate market?
Thats actually technically wrong it wasn't just in their aplha version it was in the korean CBT as well I was there. I still disagree and prefer the Item Decay system over LP.
What I am saying is that land is limited in the game, the same as it is in RL. People yammering on about "All the land is taken and I can't place my farm/house, this game sucks..." is ridiculous in a game where the world is controlled by the playerbase. I wasn't talking about complexity, I was talking about supply and demand.
The only way for this issue to ever be rectified would be if Trion/XL switched housing over to be instanced the way it is in Wildstar or they limited the number of plots that each account could own... Both of those things would cause huge pushback from the community.
I'm enjoying the heck out of this game, as well. I joined BlackWater Trading Co on Aranzeb and they're a nice mix of crafting, farming and occasional PvP. I'm currently using temp gardens to grow my trees and spices, and we have some guild-accessible buildings to trade resources, do crafting and pitch in toward projects like our recent merchant ship.
HOWEVER...
The labor system is borderline insidious, functioning the same way as Vegas digital slot machines. Here's how it works:
You get a certain automatic supply of points over time. In slot machines, this is usually in the form of 'leveling' bonus or some other 'gimme'.
Initially you are spending a certain amount of points to get a certain return from harvesting, coinpurses, etc. As the value of the returns goes up, so does the cost in points to do it. To use coin purses as an example:
1 labor point = 1 silver and change
2 labor points = 2 silver and change
3 labor points = 3 silver and change
and so on.
To the user, this returns seem to increase equally, despite the return being approximately
1 labor point = 1 and ~50% of 1
2 labor points = 2 and ~25% of 2
3 labor points = 3 and ~14% of 3
That's rather insignificant, though, when you remember that the automatic point allotment remains a constant.
The user sees payouts that increase with the points they invest, and the natural reaction is to try to do more to compensate for the gradually reducing point pool. On the surface, that seems to make sense, but the user is not taking into consideration that those freebie or bonus points they were getting do not increase. While the slot machine players were often slightly ahead at the 1-cent level, at the 5-cent level - where the winning payouts are five times higher - the bonus cash no longer is enough to fill in for losses, leading to gradually losing money. The user often shifts to a higher tier, hoping the bigger payouts will compensate for the shrinking point supply. This, in turn, only makes the pool shrink faster. In slot machines, the greater rewards incentivize the user to keep upping the amount they are putting in per pull.
In ArcheAge, the money is in buying those points, either through subscription or the cash shop. Yes, players can buy the Work Comp potions with gold, but that's far more math and process than most players want to do. If nothing else, it's far less convenient than buying patron status or Work Comp potions off the item mall.
For the posters that say some MMO cash shops are designed to be casino/gambling hooks, this game is your shining example.
I enjoy the game immensely and I'm amazed at many of the cool features the game has to offer, but I'm not going to beat around the bush on the labor point system - it is built like a modern Vegas slot machine.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
In cased you missed my previous point, it is not the same.
Labor system itself, the concept, is fine. The true issue is F2P payment model which makes whole system pointless and nearly everything in the game being tied to LP people make alts to gain massive amounts of LP and no room for gameplay allowing excess of LP.
The game is just poorly designed and not thought out.
I am wondering, did you change your mind about the game? You did not seem to be so fond of it, or that is how it looked to me.
I feel no sympathy. All of you were warned for months on this forum, that this would happen.
Welcome to Zynga.. err Archeage. Labor Points = Energy (facebook style system).
Subscription + Labor Potions = p2w. And the fanboys actually defended this claiming it's not.
Setting a really low bar with Neverwinter.
If you are part of a guild you can achieve goals by having people with extra labor gather and combine base components needed for you and then you can use your labor on the finishing of products.
This way you will still advance alot faster than casuals that are using labor for gathering and combining and finished products.
Also if you are crafting alone without back-up from guild then expect your pace to be more similar to casual which will be slow.
This game for many is not a short race but a long hike. Something you take your time with and make progress for a good while....then take breaks.
Also how many hours per day playing a game is considered an addiction? My guess would be over 5 hours. Most crafting done in the game you will be just fine a few hours a day since part of that is you are doing it all yourself is used traveling around from point A to B.
Are there exceptions to this? Sure....underwater mining you are go thru labor very fast. But that is due to the fact it gives a resource needed in higher end crafting recipes.
Maybe dial back your expectations a bit and play it for 3 hours and then go for a walk or do something active....or read a book.
Land in prime areas in real life doesn't sell for a premium? I must be mistaken, my bad.
Labor is pulled across the account so how does creating alts help this?
I don't think the game is poorly thought out. I think it's got a heavy emphasis on the gamification of the business model.
As for my views of the game, I don't think i have expressed any really outside of my dislike for the whole "and then at 30 everything is PVP" thing, however the game is designed such that crafters, farmers and merchants can regulate their exposure to the PVP to suit their personal comfort levels. I kinda like that.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
OFC I have thought about what I have said.
I have never said that time poor people don't pay to be on an even keel with more hardcore players. Because that's all in reality buying stuff like labour pots for real money really offers.
My point is that you don't create a game where a good percentage of your players can play for free if you are 'greedy'.
Actually, in pretty much every F2P game, 90% of the revenue is provided by like, 10% of the players. They're still greedy as hell. An executive of a company that has lots of F2P games even basically said as much in a business presentation that you can find on the net if you search (Search R2Games).
You DO create a game "where a good percentage of your players can play for free" if you are greedy and if that's how you make bigger profits. There's a reason why F2P is taking over as the premier business strategy with the exception of WoW and maybe FFIV:ARR