Screw Christmas anyway! The church hijacked and bastardized a perfectly fine pagan holiday to help deceive and convert the majority of Europeans who weren't exactly too keen on giving up the traditions of their ancestors in exchange for a religion based on some dead guy from a foreign country. Most of the Christmas traditions all come from the Germanic pagan holiday, Yule, which has nothing to do with Jesus. So yea, have fun with that whole "committing sacrilege in the name of your monotheistic god" thing lol
40 man hardcore raiding didn't kill this game. Stop with the "i told ya so" because you're wrong. Bugs killed the game, a premature PVP season killed the game, exploit/cheaters/win-trading killed this game. That's a fact directly from all the large guilds associated with the large guild I am a part of.
As part of a hardcore PVP guild, 3 guilds, including the one i am a part of, left because the PVP wasn't there, it was buggy, and classes were horribly broken. The PVE hardcore guilds stuck around until they could not put up with the bugs anymore. Not a single large guild that my guild keeps in contact with left because "lawlz 40 raid iz too haaard", not a SINGLE one. Save the "i told you so", you aren't fooling anyone. You were not right.
Lots of organized guilds got 40 people together. Was it easy? No, but they did it. When you get all those people together, and they work HARD coordinating strategies and still fail a raid due to bugs, that's when you have a problem.
40 man hardcore raiding didn't kill this game. Stop with the "i told ya so" because you're wrong. Bugs killed the game, a premature PVP season killed the game, exploit/cheaters/win-trading killed this game. That's a fact directly from all the large guilds associated with the large guild I am a part of.
As part of a hardcore PVP guild, 3 guilds, including the one i am a part of, left because the PVP wasn't there, it was buggy, and classes were horribly broken. The PVE hardcore guilds stuck around until they could not put up with the bugs anymore. Not a single large guild that my guild keeps in contact with left because "lawlz 40 raid iz too haaard", not a SINGLE one. Save the "i told you so", you aren't fooling anyone. You were not right.
Lots of organized guilds got 40 people together. Was it easy? No, but they did it. When you get all those people together, and they work HARD coordinating strategies and still fail a raid due to bugs, that's when you have a problem.
No it didn't on its own but it is one of the biggest factors why they alienated lots of players when they hit 50. Stop being in denial.
My opinion on why W* did badly is because not a lot of people are willing to pay a subscription for an MMO that basically does nothing new besides maybe the combat (which I honestly found exhausting after a while since a lot of times you'd back up into other mobs or accidentally hit an extra mob that you didn't mean to), unless the MMO is based on an established IP like Final Fantasy or the Elder Scrolls.
W* felt largely the same to me as many F2P titles out there, and I remember a far back as beta, quickly losing interest in it. It just seems to lack soul to me and the quests for a subscription MMO are subpar as if they forgot that a subscription MMO can't just rely on combat to succeed (TERA had that problem and had to go F2P because of it).
I just see so many mistakes with this game and am continually shocked that I was one of the few who were left scratching their head in beta and suspecting that the game wasn't going to do as well as people made it out to seem.
Who cares about christmas events ? Game is great, but feels very empty (almost like single player) so mega servers are great idea if done right.
Game is little more hard(core) than most current mmos that are casual and boring.
In same time it was designed with few big flaws - cartoon graphics and in same time hardcore content, graphics should be more serious ( and adult ) as kids dont like hard games.
Originally posted by Tyr216 Screw Christmas anyway! The church hijacked and bastardized a perfectly fine pagan holiday to help deceive and convert the majority of Europeans who weren't exactly too keen on giving up the traditions of their ancestors in exchange for a religion based on some dead guy from a foreign country. Most of the Christmas traditions all come from the Germanic pagan holiday, Yule, which has nothing to do with Jesus. So yea, have fun with that whole "committing sacrilege in the name of your monotheistic god" thing lol
I'm pretty sure everyone knows that christmas is not really a christian holiday but I fear you are >slightly< off topic.
Originally posted by Nevulus
40 man hardcore raiding didn't kill this game. Stop with the "i told ya so" because you're wrong.
Uhm 40 man raiding was hyped by the devs as the one big reason to stay. Now as you said it's not impossible but hard to get 40 people together - then mixed together with the fundamentally broken raids described by someone from the voodoo guild it is clear that their big selling point is worthless.
So maybe the raids didn't kill the game but it was supposed to be their trump card and it failed badly.
There are soooo many things that probably killed Wildstar that it's almost a bit silly arguing over specifics. It's like trying to perform an autopsy on a corpse that has 50 knife wounds, 50 bullet wounds, and 10 terminal illnesses all at once while it's crawling with 5 breeds of venomous spiders.
At any rate, Carbine deciding to cancel Christmas so they could focos on bug fixes for drop 3 is akin to someone drinking mild-but-hopefully-survivable poison so he wouldn't have to cut off his head later. Yes, it was the right (and perhaps only, at this point) decision, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing for Wildstar.
There are soooo many things that probably killed Wildstar that it's almost a bit silly arguing over specifics. It's like trying to perform an autopsy on a corpse that has 50 knife wounds, 50 bullet wounds, and 10 terminal illnesses all at once while it's crawling with 5 breeds of venomous spiders.
At any rate, Carbine deciding to cancel Christmas so they could focos on bug fixes for drop 3 is akin to someone drinking mild-but-hopefully-survivable poison so he wouldn't have to cut off his head later. Yes, it was the right (and perhaps only, at this point) decision, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing for Wildstar.
Ah, the old 'drink poison or cut your head off' ultimatum. I think it is often underused as an analogy.
There are soooo many things that probably killed Wildstar that it's almost a bit silly arguing over specifics. It's like trying to perform an autopsy on a corpse that has 50 knife wounds, 50 bullet wounds, and 10 terminal illnesses all at once while it's crawling with 5 breeds of venomous spiders.
At any rate, Carbine deciding to cancel Christmas so they could focos on bug fixes for drop 3 is akin to someone drinking mild-but-hopefully-survivable poison so he wouldn't have to cut off his head later. Yes, it was the right (and perhaps only, at this point) decision, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing for Wildstar.
Ah, the old 'drink poison or cut your head off' ultimatum. I think it is often underused as an analogy.
I think we are beyond the point where Wildstar even needs an ultimatum.
How sad and ironic. Carbine brought out an MMO that has tried to bring back a real hardcore feeling when raiding. Yet a certain popular MMO has gone in the opposite direction and taken everyone who used to have a spine with them, all those players who used to enjoy a real challenge in a dungeon, not the racerolling you can look forward to wth each over-due expac.
I have enjoyed WS and I don't want to see this game get crushed by those who can't see past their noses, who have become so used to a developer dumbing their products down so much a snail on prozac could be decked out in epics in a day.
How sad and ironic. Carbine brought out an MMO that has tried to bring back a real hardcore feeling when raiding. Yet a certain popular MMO has gone in the opposite direction and taken everyone who used to have a spine with them, all those players who used to enjoy a real challenge in a dungeon, not the racerolling you can look forward to wth each over-due expac.
I have enjoyed WS and I don't want to see this game get crushed by those who can't see past their noses, who have become so used to a developer dumbing their products down so much a snail on prozac could be decked out in epics in a day.
The game has a multitude of problems and very few of them are related to the 'hardcore' label. This is evident by the recent exodus of hardcore raiding guilds.
WoW's hardcore gameplay worked because people were coming off of blizzard and warcraft 3 hype
also relative to other mmo's at the time, it was considered the mmo for babies. mostly because of its streamlined design
carbine believing they could bring back the 40 man hardcore was incredibly arrogant of them. now this game will probably be converted to F2P soon
this is wrong. Wows 40 man raids had many mechanics that Wildstar just doesnt have. Multiple classes per character, Crowd Control mechanics, Dedication of players and massive control.
When you look at how games are done many of these things arent found. The biggest of these issues is the player base. I gcall them the gimme generation. They dont want to work for the loot, they want it handed to them. The 40 man raids could take days to complete This was where the player dedication came into play.
The average gamer today doesnt have the attention span of a kumquat . Look at the Raid style differences, they are satisfied with the raids in WoW ... Then compare those same raids to the raids in Vanilla or The Burning Crusade and you will realize that the players have become satisfied with coal instead of gold. And when offered said gold they cry and troll saying..."its no good 40 mans will never work"
yet they did for 5 years with millions of players running them, 24 hours a day 7 days a week.
What i find kinda funny is that just about every MMO developer does the same thing.
And after all the failed MMO's they still doing the same thing.
Kill a 2 mob's to go up a level, hit max level in a week.
Have stupid dungeons that u need to run 900000 times to gear up. (for what ? do more dungeons ? )
Woot a harder dungeon thats does the same thing but just give mobs 191019019101 million health.
Thats not hardcore thats dumbcore.
I played mu online in the good old days. one could not get to max level in a week or even a few months.
Some say "BLEH grinding" "Takes to long" "i am just a casual player"
Wel sorry for u but putting effort and time in an MMO to actualy having progress is what makes an MMO to me.
If you call it "Grinding" fine but that actualy what makes an MMO for me.
Give me an MMO that u need to put efford in to level and i play it.
The is actualy just one MMO that did it all for me.
By a german developer but to bad handling of it it fail.
But to me that is how mmo's should be made.
Neocron.
Wildstar's journey to level 50 was casual, but the end-game was for hard-core only. I saw different people posting many different reasons why they left Wildstar, but one of the ones that especially came up a lot was "The journey to level 50 was awesome but the end game sucked because there was nothing to do if you didn't raid."
hy the hell anyone at Carbine thought THAT was a good idea is beyond me. "Hey, let's make a subscription business model that relies on long term player retention for profits and then make a gameplay model where casuals are hooked early but then want to leave later because the end-game isn't casual!"
Looks like I need to cancel my Wildstar sub. Kinda makes me sad, but I will cancel for the same reason I cancelled WoW. If I pay a sub I expect content in return. If you aren't going to deliver the content, regardless of the reason, you aren't going to get my money. No Halloween and Christmas content, on top of the recent change to the lazy 3 month dev cycle. No thanks. I was willing to pay when they were willing to work for my sub fee, even if the game had problems. I respected the work ethic and the effort, without that, there aren't any good reasons left for me to keep giving them money.
There were only two classes I liked, which I played. But only one up to level 50. The 40-man raid did not work. Raiding guilds bailed left and right. Good luck with the mega servers.
Originally posted by Wraithone What really concerns me, is with NCsoft as their publisher, and knowing NCsofts itchy trigger finger, when it comes to western games, how long does Carbine have, before the NCsoft suits pull the plug?
I don't think "knowing" means what you think it means.
Exteel, Dungeon Runners, Auto Assault, and the Western L2 servers are all examples of games that NCSoft gave more than enough chance to turn around. Are you confusing them with EA, or are you one of those people bitter over TR and CoH?
"More than enough chance"?... How objective of you... ^^ NCsofts past history speaks for itself. They are not a reliable publisher for a western game. If you had spent time actually living in South Korea, perhaps you would understand some of the contributing factors to that.
As for the second, I played Tabula Rasa from the very first day, to its very last day. I very much enjoyed aspects of it. Both NCsoft and RG made many mistakes, but in the end it was NCsoft that ended up paying RG $28 million dollars for their unprofessional antics.
Comments
Bah, humbug.
Oh well, maybe they'll get Valentines.
You know what's fun about chaos? I do, but I won't tell.
40 man hardcore raiding didn't kill this game. Stop with the "i told ya so" because you're wrong. Bugs killed the game, a premature PVP season killed the game, exploit/cheaters/win-trading killed this game. That's a fact directly from all the large guilds associated with the large guild I am a part of.
As part of a hardcore PVP guild, 3 guilds, including the one i am a part of, left because the PVP wasn't there, it was buggy, and classes were horribly broken. The PVE hardcore guilds stuck around until they could not put up with the bugs anymore. Not a single large guild that my guild keeps in contact with left because "lawlz 40 raid iz too haaard", not a SINGLE one. Save the "i told you so", you aren't fooling anyone. You were not right.
Lots of organized guilds got 40 people together. Was it easy? No, but they did it. When you get all those people together, and they work HARD coordinating strategies and still fail a raid due to bugs, that's when you have a problem.
No it didn't on its own but it is one of the biggest factors why they alienated lots of players when they hit 50. Stop being in denial.
W* felt largely the same to me as many F2P titles out there, and I remember a far back as beta, quickly losing interest in it. It just seems to lack soul to me and the quests for a subscription MMO are subpar as if they forgot that a subscription MMO can't just rely on combat to succeed (TERA had that problem and had to go F2P because of it).
I just see so many mistakes with this game and am continually shocked that I was one of the few who were left scratching their head in beta and suspecting that the game wasn't going to do as well as people made it out to seem.
Smile
Who cares about christmas events ? Game is great, but feels very empty (almost like single player) so mega servers are great idea if done right.
Game is little more hard(core) than most current mmos that are casual and boring.
In same time it was designed with few big flaws - cartoon graphics and in same time hardcore content, graphics should be more serious ( and adult ) as kids dont like hard games.
P2P when most games are going for f2p...
Uhm 40 man raiding was hyped by the devs as the one big reason to stay. Now as you said it's not impossible but hard to get 40 people together - then mixed together with the fundamentally broken raids described by someone from the voodoo guild it is clear that their big selling point is worthless.
So maybe the raids didn't kill the game but it was supposed to be their trump card and it failed badly.
There are soooo many things that probably killed Wildstar that it's almost a bit silly arguing over specifics. It's like trying to perform an autopsy on a corpse that has 50 knife wounds, 50 bullet wounds, and 10 terminal illnesses all at once while it's crawling with 5 breeds of venomous spiders.
At any rate, Carbine deciding to cancel Christmas so they could focos on bug fixes for drop 3 is akin to someone drinking mild-but-hopefully-survivable poison so he wouldn't have to cut off his head later. Yes, it was the right (and perhaps only, at this point) decision, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing for Wildstar.
Ah, the old 'drink poison or cut your head off' ultimatum. I think it is often underused as an analogy.
I think we are beyond the point where Wildstar even needs an ultimatum.
How sad and ironic. Carbine brought out an MMO that has tried to bring back a real hardcore feeling when raiding. Yet a certain popular MMO has gone in the opposite direction and taken everyone who used to have a spine with them, all those players who used to enjoy a real challenge in a dungeon, not the racerolling you can look forward to wth each over-due expac.
I have enjoyed WS and I don't want to see this game get crushed by those who can't see past their noses, who have become so used to a developer dumbing their products down so much a snail on prozac could be decked out in epics in a day.
What i find kinda funny is that just about every MMO developer does the same thing.
And after all the failed MMO's they still doing the same thing.
Kill a 2 mob's to go up a level, hit max level in a week.
Have stupid dungeons that u need to run 900000 times to gear up. (for what ? do more dungeons ? )
Woot a harder dungeon thats does the same thing but just give mobs 191019019101 million health.
Thats not hardcore thats dumbcore.
I played mu online in the good old days. one could not get to max level in a week or even a few months.
Some say "BLEH grinding" "Takes to long" "i am just a casual player"
Wel sorry for u but putting effort and time in an MMO to actualy having progress is what makes an MMO to me.
If you call it "Grinding" fine but that actualy what makes an MMO for me.
Give me an MMO that u need to put efford in to level and i play it.
The is actualy just one MMO that did it all for me.
By a german developer but to bad handling of it it fail.
But to me that is how mmo's should be made.
Neocron.
The game has a multitude of problems and very few of them are related to the 'hardcore' label. This is evident by the recent exodus of hardcore raiding guilds.
this is wrong. Wows 40 man raids had many mechanics that Wildstar just doesnt have. Multiple classes per character, Crowd Control mechanics, Dedication of players and massive control.
When you look at how games are done many of these things arent found. The biggest of these issues is the player base. I gcall them the gimme generation. They dont want to work for the loot, they want it handed to them. The 40 man raids could take days to complete This was where the player dedication came into play.
The average gamer today doesnt have the attention span of a kumquat . Look at the Raid style differences, they are satisfied with the raids in WoW ... Then compare those same raids to the raids in Vanilla or The Burning Crusade and you will realize that the players have become satisfied with coal instead of gold. And when offered said gold they cry and troll saying..."its no good 40 mans will never work"
yet they did for 5 years with millions of players running them, 24 hours a day 7 days a week.
Played: UO, LotR, WoW, SWG, DDO, AoC, EVE, Warhammer, TF2, EQ2, SWTOR, TSW, CSS, KF, L4D, AoW, WoT
Playing: The Secret World until Citadel of Sorcery goes into Alpha testing.
Tired of: Linear quest games, dailies, and dumbed down games
Anticipating:Citadel of Sorcery
Wildstar's journey to level 50 was casual, but the end-game was for hard-core only. I saw different people posting many different reasons why they left Wildstar, but one of the ones that especially came up a lot was "The journey to level 50 was awesome but the end game sucked because there was nothing to do if you didn't raid."
hy the hell anyone at Carbine thought THAT was a good idea is beyond me. "Hey, let's make a subscription business model that relies on long term player retention for profits and then make a gameplay model where casuals are hooked early but then want to leave later because the end-game isn't casual!"
Try actually optimizing your game so i can achieve higher than 10 fps and i will return....
AMD FX-8350
R9-280X 3G
8G 1600Mhz Ram
"More than enough chance"?... How objective of you... ^^ NCsofts past history speaks for itself. They are not a reliable publisher for a western game. If you had spent time actually living in South Korea, perhaps you would understand some of the contributing factors to that.
As for the second, I played Tabula Rasa from the very first day, to its very last day. I very much enjoyed aspects of it. Both NCsoft and RG made many mistakes, but in the end it was NCsoft that ended up paying RG $28 million dollars for their unprofessional antics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabula_Rasa_%28video_game%29#Litigation