Originally posted by JabasWhat other mmorpgs with extreme economy player dependent where players can "produce" materials you are talking about?Its really a legitim question, i dont play all games, really like to know
Archeage sports nothing like "extreme economy player dependent", there is no item decay so no economy to speak of.
You are grosly overestimate how the game works.
People mostly use loot gear because crafting high level gear is not worthy. Really, crafting is there only for monetization purposes, it is entirely pointless.
MY GOD every other MMORPG without the labor system must have a broken economy!! How did we ever play games without this system??
What other mmorpgs with extreme economy player dependent where players can "produce" materials you are talking about?
Its really a legitim question, i dont play all games, really like to know
I played Star Wars Galaxies for 2 years before the NGE. People could not only survey for spots to put extractors and factories making gathering interesting but crafting with tons of professions and housing letting you put down multiple player run vendors.
Also Ultima Online for 2 years and I even remember having a tent. Player run vendors and everything player gathered and crafted. They actually had a lumberjack, mining, talioring, carpentry, blacksmith etc skill that was raised by use.
I'll just leave it at what I consider the two best examples but there are a plethora of games that have crafting and economies without the use of a labor system. It is not required.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
- 50% seem to be on 27/7. How I don't know, maybe unemployment, disabilities, in-between schools at collage, but they are on all the time.
- The same people don't seem to mindless grind to get ahead.
Sounds like this game is not for them.....And that's 50 % !.........How they have the time, and why they like playing video games 24/7 is beyond me.
The best example is Darkfall.......You need to gain Prowes to advance. My guild told me I need at least 6,000 Prowess to be worth anything. It took over a week of playing hard to get that. ONLY TO BE TOLD I NEED TO BE 15,000 !!!!......This took over a month more of casual play, with also playing hard during a weeks vacation during that time......Guess what ?....15,000 was worthless too !
Yet, many had 200,000 Prowess in the game. Figure that one out !
I joined a major guild, that had voice chat, most all had disabilities.
What other mmorpgs with extreme economy player dependent where players can "produce" materials you are talking about?
Its really a legitim question, i dont play all games, really like to know
Archeage sports nothing like "extreme economy player dependent", there is no item decay so no economy to speak of.
You are grosly overestimate how the game works.
People mostly use loot gear because crafting high level gear is not worthy. Really, crafting is there only for monetization purposes, it is entirely pointless.
Spoken like someone that hasn't played the game beyond the forums .....the only thing entirely pointless is watching you struggle to make a mountain out of a molehill with the labor issue , again as a patron player there is no issue in the least with LP's and that's how the game works plain and simple
Originally posted by Bad.dog again as a patron player there is no issue in the least with LP's and that's how the game works plain and simple
Thank you for supporting my point.
Originally posted by Gdemami Labor system does nothing economically wise, it only provides one more "convenience" item for the cash shop via artificial slowdown mechanics that you can diminish with RL cash.
The whole item decay vs labor points makes some sense. Problem is one lets you continue to play and gives you constant goal while the other limits your play and when you have the best, whats next? That's just my view point on this.
Also the person bringing up real life with a game, please just don't....
Thank you all again for your input but seems like this game just might not be for some of us.
It's pretty obvious that labor points are a way to make money, not a defensible game play choice. The fact that you can stack them on top of a subscription creates a model where even subscribers can end up needing to make cash shop purchases. Note also the "online regeneration" feature, which had direct implications for the starting queues. So you then have aggressive anti-AFK programs, which in turn promote botting and macros....
This system creates all sorts of distortions in ways that go well beyond item decay vs. none. And because it's tied up so tighly with their financing system for the game it's very difficult to see how to fix it.
I was having "fun" till I learned that almost everything I wanted to do cost labor points. Is this implemented to block us from playing too much? I mean I just hit the robots and saw ore and kept clicking the ones I saw as I climbed the mountain and before I got halfway up it said I couldn't anymore.
Only thing I see myself doing is combat which is not that fun to begin with. Being a skullknight all I do is spam my first star blast or w/e it's called.
sorry, but you do not have enough labor points to ask that kind of question!
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Everything costs labor points, so that everyone, even if you are paying the sub equivalent, will have to buy LP pots from the cash shop.
There is no other reason.
100% wrong
Labor point system existed in Korean alpha and beta - and at launch when game was a Subscription game - without any cash shop.
Labor point + RNG is an alternative to Item Decay based system.
The more you know.
Yeah? Bullshit.
What you may not "know" and do not mention, is that AA HAD decay until they figured out they were going go the cash shop route, with the NA release, and also with the Russian one.
So your information is dated, as well as wrong.
There are plenty of threads about them taking out item decay in this very section, in a certain patch, if you go back a bit.
And labor points were in the game when they did that, so whether or not they planned to have decay, they always planned to have labor points.
And of course, labor point pots in the cash shop.
Pure Cash Shop Funneling (even for VIPs).
Seems you don't know much then, do you?
Who is it doesn't doesn't know much? You can buy labor on the ah, and with the labor you get you'll make even more money. I haven't bought for rl money a SINGLE potion, and i chug 3 lp pots daily at least.
MY GOD every other MMORPG without the labor system must have a broken economy!! How did we ever play games without this system??
What other mmorpgs with extreme economy player dependent where players can "produce" materials you are talking about?
Its really a legitim question, i dont play all games, really like to know
I played Star Wars Galaxies for 2 years before the NGE. People could not only survey for spots to put extractors and factories making gathering interesting but crafting with tons of professions and housing letting you put down multiple player run vendors.
Also Ultima Online for 2 years and I even remember having a tent. Player run vendors and everything player gathered and crafted. They actually had a lumberjack, mining, talioring, carpentry, blacksmith etc skill that was raised by use.
I'll just leave it at what I consider the two best examples but there are a plethora of games that have crafting and economies without the use of a labor system. It is not required.
You keep naming games with item decay.
Again - come up with a system that has *no item decay* - XL came up with labor system, as they didn't want item decay.
What I did was name games with great crafting and economies that didn't have the garbage labor system.
Not that it would be hard to make a crafting grind with RNG that could keep the economy in check without labor system or item decay. I'm pretty sure they could let mobs drop gold like in every other MMO as well instead of opening jester purses with labor. All they would have to do is take into account how much gold drops on the mobs and how fast people can get it. No labor system needed.
Are you seriously trying to say the only way they could do this without item decay is with the labor system?
Laughable.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Originally posted by Gorgothax If they got rid of labor points I can almost certainly guarantee that no one would really be complaining about this game, except for the mindless questing that goes on until you hit level 30.
Except that everyone would be walking in end game gear within weeks and the whole game would lose all appeal immediately - thus completely ruining the entire game.
The labor system is what makes ArcheAge tick - removing it would be equivalent to ripping someone's heart out.
Unless you have an alternative solution to keep the economy in check without item decay - I'd love to hear it.
A better system I can think of is to make the resources for high level gear, rare and only obtainable by controlling areas through PvP.
Labor system is not the only way - but it is the best alternative to item decay economy.
It is no alternative to decay as it does not promote same goal.
Item decay provides endless demand. Labor provides...tedium and revenue from cash shop.
It has no economical weight.
Exactly. The reason for the labor system is not to come up with a better system instead of item decay. It is to maximize profitability at the expense of player experience. It is garbage.
What other mmorpgs with extreme economy player dependent where players can "produce" materials you are talking about?
Its really a legitim question, i dont play all games, really like to know
Archeage sports nothing like "extreme economy player dependent", there is no item decay so no economy to speak of.
You are grosly overestimate how the game works.
People mostly use loot gear because crafting high level gear is not worthy. Really, crafting is there only for monetization purposes, it is entirely pointless.
Item decay is not the only option to make a game economy dependent. You see it that way like you allready mentioned here alot of times, its just your opinion. ArcheAge is economy player dependent, like the system or not.
You mentioned Gear, gear is only one part of the game. You cant build castles in Auroria with gear, at least based in what i read around.
And im not overstimate the game, was in RU 3 months befor start in west, is allready enouph time to know what i feel about the game.
We just see the game in diferent way, nothing wrong with that.
I like the LP system.
is implemention could be better? maybe,
Its fair? maybe not for some solo players with to much free time to play.
LP is a chalenge to manage and i like it. We are a group of players making plans to maximize the "profit" from LP and we work all together.
This game its a amazing group experience, but alot of players lost the capability of playing with others in this last years.
MY GOD every other MMORPG without the labor system must have a broken economy!! How did we ever play games without this system??
What other mmorpgs with extreme economy player dependent where players can "produce" materials you are talking about?
Its really a legitim question, i dont play all games, really like to know
I played Star Wars Galaxies for 2 years before the NGE. People could not only survey for spots to put extractors and factories making gathering interesting but crafting with tons of professions and housing letting you put down multiple player run vendors.
Also Ultima Online for 2 years and I even remember having a tent. Player run vendors and everything player gathered and crafted. They actually had a lumberjack, mining, talioring, carpentry, blacksmith etc skill that was raised by use.
I'll just leave it at what I consider the two best examples but there are a plethora of games that have crafting and economies without the use of a labor system. It is not required.
Didnt play SWG neither UO and both are not a option for me now.
So cant discuss if system were better or not.
Seems after all is not "...every other MMORPG without the labor system must have a broken economy!!""
Item decay is not the only option to make a game economy dependent.
It is only known and working way how to make economy relevant since it is a way how to provide endless demand.
AA economy is no different from WoW, SWTOR or w/e other game with no item decay.
I cant agree with this.
In AA thanks to LP system everthing have value in AH. For example i dont grind minning, i need LP to do other objectives i have, if i need stone i get it in AH from players that maybe only grind minning and that same players will buy fabric from me because they save the LP for minning only.
If there wasnt LP this wouldnt hapened, if i need stone i just mine and others if need fabric they just produce it.
Its only a basic example that make diference from games you mentioned.
It is the same as with any other game, recipes requiring materials produced by different crafting/gathering professions is nothing uncommon.
The other games dont give us the ability to "produce" most of the resources we need.
I still see this system promoting players interacting in alot of ways and for the 1st time in some years i like it to "play" with economy, everthing seems to make sense for me.
The other games dont give us the ability to "produce" most of the resources we need.
Neither does AA, everyone is using Hasla gear.
Crafting is a joke in AA, just not many people dabbed into any higher tier crafting to see that...
Crafted gear is BETTER than Hasla gear... just no one is high enough at crafting to create any of it yet. Hasla gear is equivalent to welfare epics in WoW. Much better than the quest rewards, but definitely not better than crafted. It's going to take a while before you start seeing the top end crafted gear in game.
Originally posted by PepeqCrafted gear is BETTER than Hasla gear... just no one is high enough at crafting to create any of it yet.
It is not a matter of crafting skill level. It is a matter of insane RNG and ridiculous amount of resources it takes to make anything better than Hasla.
Crafted gear is better, but it isn't feasible gear to use/produce.
Crafted gear is BETTER than Hasla gear... just no one is high enough at crafting to create any of it yet.
It is not a matter of crafting skill level. It is a matter of insane RNG and ridiculous amount of resources it takes to make anything better than Hasla.
Crafted gear is better, but it isn't feasible gear to use.
People haven't crafted any of it yet... and yes it is RNG based, then you also have regrades, tempering, et al... it is like a roll of the dice... you might get something super awesome for your spec... you might not. BUT, people will still want it and will try to get it. Your "feasible" is akin to "I don't care to". Hasla anyone can get... hence welfare. Crafted not so much so as of yet.
Originally posted by Pepeq People haven't crafted any of it yet... and yes it is RNG based, then you also have regrades, tempering, et al... it is like a roll of the dice... you might get something super awesome for your spec... you might not. BUT, people will still want it and will try to get it. Your "feasible" is akin to "I don't care to". Hasla anyone can get... hence welfare. Crafted not so much so as of yet.
Well, that is what happened in RU beta. Archeum dust got nerfed to bone too so it is even worse.
You do not really understand the level of grind I am talking about here...
You will see for yourself or you can do the math now.
Comments
Archeage sports nothing like "extreme economy player dependent", there is no item decay so no economy to speak of.
You are grosly overestimate how the game works.
People mostly use loot gear because crafting high level gear is not worthy. Really, crafting is there only for monetization purposes, it is entirely pointless.
I played Star Wars Galaxies for 2 years before the NGE. People could not only survey for spots to put extractors and factories making gathering interesting but crafting with tons of professions and housing letting you put down multiple player run vendors.
Also Ultima Online for 2 years and I even remember having a tent. Player run vendors and everything player gathered and crafted. They actually had a lumberjack, mining, talioring, carpentry, blacksmith etc skill that was raised by use.
I'll just leave it at what I consider the two best examples but there are a plethora of games that have crafting and economies without the use of a labor system. It is not required.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/In all my years of mmo playing I noticed this :
- 50% seem to be on 27/7. How I don't know, maybe unemployment, disabilities, in-between schools at collage, but they are on all the time.
- The same people don't seem to mindless grind to get ahead.
Sounds like this game is not for them.....And that's 50 % !.........How they have the time, and why they like playing video games 24/7 is beyond me.
The best example is Darkfall.......You need to gain Prowes to advance. My guild told me I need at least 6,000 Prowess to be worth anything. It took over a week of playing hard to get that. ONLY TO BE TOLD I NEED TO BE 15,000 !!!!......This took over a month more of casual play, with also playing hard during a weeks vacation during that time......Guess what ?....15,000 was worthless too !
Yet, many had 200,000 Prowess in the game. Figure that one out !
I joined a major guild, that had voice chat, most all had disabilities.
Spoken like someone that hasn't played the game beyond the forums .....the only thing entirely pointless is watching you struggle to make a mountain out of a molehill with the labor issue , again as a patron player there is no issue in the least with LP's and that's how the game works plain and simple
Thank you for supporting my point.
The whole item decay vs labor points makes some sense. Problem is one lets you continue to play and gives you constant goal while the other limits your play and when you have the best, whats next? That's just my view point on this.
Also the person bringing up real life with a game, please just don't....
Thank you all again for your input but seems like this game just might not be for some of us.
It's pretty obvious that labor points are a way to make money, not a defensible game play choice. The fact that you can stack them on top of a subscription creates a model where even subscribers can end up needing to make cash shop purchases. Note also the "online regeneration" feature, which had direct implications for the starting queues. So you then have aggressive anti-AFK programs, which in turn promote botting and macros....
This system creates all sorts of distortions in ways that go well beyond item decay vs. none. And because it's tied up so tighly with their financing system for the game it's very difficult to see how to fix it.
sorry, but you do not have enough labor points to ask that kind of question!
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
How many hours are in a day where you are?
What I did was name games with great crafting and economies that didn't have the garbage labor system.
Not that it would be hard to make a crafting grind with RNG that could keep the economy in check without labor system or item decay. I'm pretty sure they could let mobs drop gold like in every other MMO as well instead of opening jester purses with labor. All they would have to do is take into account how much gold drops on the mobs and how fast people can get it. No labor system needed.
Are you seriously trying to say the only way they could do this without item decay is with the labor system?
Laughable.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/A better system I can think of is to make the resources for high level gear, rare and only obtainable by controlling areas through PvP.
My gaming blog
It is no alternative to decay as it does not promote same goal.
Item decay provides endless demand.
Labor provides...tedium and revenue from cash shop.
It has no economical weight.
Exactly. The reason for the labor system is not to come up with a better system instead of item decay. It is to maximize profitability at the expense of player experience. It is garbage.
My gaming blog
Item decay is not the only option to make a game economy dependent. You see it that way like you allready mentioned here alot of times, its just your opinion. ArcheAge is economy player dependent, like the system or not.
You mentioned Gear, gear is only one part of the game. You cant build castles in Auroria with gear, at least based in what i read around.
And im not overstimate the game, was in RU 3 months befor start in west, is allready enouph time to know what i feel about the game.
We just see the game in diferent way, nothing wrong with that.
I like the LP system.
is implemention could be better? maybe,
Its fair? maybe not for some solo players with to much free time to play.
LP is a chalenge to manage and i like it. We are a group of players making plans to maximize the "profit" from LP and we work all together.
This game its a amazing group experience, but alot of players lost the capability of playing with others in this last years.
Maybe is time to learn again.
Didnt play SWG neither UO and both are not a option for me now.
So cant discuss if system were better or not.
Seems after all is not "...every other MMORPG without the labor system must have a broken economy!!""
It is only known and working way how to make economy relevant since it is a way how to provide endless demand.
AA economy is no different from WoW, SWTOR or w/e other game with no item decay.
I cant agree with this.
In AA thanks to LP system everthing have value in AH. For example i dont grind minning, i need LP to do other objectives i have, if i need stone i get it in AH from players that maybe only grind minning and that same players will buy fabric from me because they save the LP for minning only.
If there wasnt LP this wouldnt hapened, if i need stone i just mine and others if need fabric they just produce it.
Its only a basic example that make diference from games you mentioned.
It is not a matter of agreement.
Nothing of you said related to LP. It relates to time.
In a given time you spent in game, you can either mine or plant cotton. From there you have 2 options:
1) You mine and then plant cotton, taking you twice much time.
2) You mine and purchase cotton from other players, taking you less time.
There is no need for LP at all. LP is just a gimmick strapped upon mechanics described above so they can monetize the game better.
It is the same as with any other game, recipes requiring materials produced by different crafting/gathering professions is nothing uncommon.
Also, nothing you talked about relates to commodity value. With no item decay, market oversaturation is inevitable, dropping the value of goods to 0.
The other games dont give us the ability to "produce" most of the resources we need.
I still see this system promoting players interacting in alot of ways and for the 1st time in some years i like it to "play" with economy, everthing seems to make sense for me.
Neither does AA, everyone is using Hasla gear.
Crafting is a joke in AA, just not many people dabbed into any higher tier crafting to see that...
Crafted gear is BETTER than Hasla gear... just no one is high enough at crafting to create any of it yet. Hasla gear is equivalent to welfare epics in WoW. Much better than the quest rewards, but definitely not better than crafted. It's going to take a while before you start seeing the top end crafted gear in game.
It is not a matter of crafting skill level. It is a matter of insane RNG and ridiculous amount of resources it takes to make anything better than Hasla.
Crafted gear is better, but it isn't feasible gear to use/produce.
People haven't crafted any of it yet... and yes it is RNG based, then you also have regrades, tempering, et al... it is like a roll of the dice... you might get something super awesome for your spec... you might not. BUT, people will still want it and will try to get it. Your "feasible" is akin to "I don't care to". Hasla anyone can get... hence welfare. Crafted not so much so as of yet.
Well, that is what happened in RU beta. Archeum dust got nerfed to bone too so it is even worse.
You do not really understand the level of grind I am talking about here...
You will see for yourself or you can do the math now.