I see AA more as a marathon than a sprint. I mean, compare it to some (most) MMO that have you max craft in hours and then you figure best stuff is a boss drop anyway, and most of the crafted things are dirt cheap on AH and thus not worth crafting at all...I'll take AAs crafting. Sure it's RNG, but well, it's a Korean grind RNG game, what did you expect?
Anyways, game is much much more fun if you have a guild cooperating together, or at least a family group that you share stuff with. I'd never set foot in AA if I had to do stuff alone. I mean, crafting is the same (at least in AA) for me as the sea battles...you can't expect to get a galleon and then rape enemis...no sir, you need a driver, a radar dude, anchor dude, and 2-4 ppl min to fire cannons and defend...and that's a skeleton crew imo. Cooperation yo.
I guess I might be influenced by my mentality going into the game. I knew exactly what I'm going into. Grindfest . Didn't expect the rampant hacking and botting tho, bums me out.
Edit: Crafting is a bit shafted by the Hasla weapons. They should not be in the game at this point. Perhaps when they released Auroria or even later, the library. They're so much better than the armor that is (somewhat) easly made - Illustrious, and even magnificent. Haslas were a catch up mechanics that have no business in the game at launch. Hell, Koreans didn't even had quest armors and weapons at the start...crafting all the way = happy crafters. And again, you're not meant to gear up in days.
People complain that you need lower level stuff to make the next higher level stuff but they dont understand the mechanics/purpose of this process. As a crafter entering into the game after it has been out for 6 months, how many low level people are going to want to buy your crappy low level junk you grinded out to move to level 2? You just end up selling it to a vendor for pennies on the dollar or you flood the AH with it at dimes on the dollar. Think back to SWG and all the low level crap on the AH that you could not even give away.
I think the system is brilliant from a crafters standpoint. The crap I grind out at lower levels is actually needed and I can use it to get to the next level or sell it because others can actually use it now when they level up. I dont think the "guess-what-you-get" stuff at higher levels is a good idea but as far as the reuse of lower tier items goes, it has a purpose and it works well in filling that purpose. If you just want to grind out disposable crap to get to the highest level, just about all other MMO's allow you to do that. AA is different and in many of the mechanics you can see real thought went into them. Its a shame that it is wasted on a big portion of the current gaming community.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
It is pretty crazy but it's also eventually the best gear (armor at least) you can possibly get in the game.
I haven't played an MMO I can remember where crafting made by far and away the best gear.
That being said I don't think I'll attempt to craft it myself. I went as far as crafting one illustirous piece and it was the wrong one for my class and it was hard enough selling that for a loss.
Really? Guildwars 2 let you craft the best armor in games (ascended)and it just the latest other game.
Crafting in AA do have potential and some good ideas but it can and should be improved. After all is crafting pretty important here so it should be one of the top priorities. That doesn't mean I think it sucks but MMOs improve their systems all the time.
I didn't play too much GW2, but was it miles better than gear from drops/pvp?
Basically the only way to get top notch gear in Archeage is crafting (besides weapons which you can get from Hasla).
If you never craft or buy from crafters, you'll never be able to compete.
It's basically like top-level crafting is level 100 gear and dropped gear is level 25.
I've never seen anything like that in an MMO I've played. Normally crafting produces one or two items which are barely on par with stuff you can get from drops.
The difference being that the economy and crafting is paramount in this game.
- Game is not even 1 month out and Auroria is not open yet wich make a very bad moment to buy "rare" mats in AH, its a good moment to sell but bad to buy it. AA need 1 more month with Auroria open and the price of mats will go down for sure.
AA is a game about patiente, those who try to rush (not saying its your case) have high chances to hit the frustation wall.
ArcheAge is over 1,5 Years old. It has been released in Korea in January 2013. Of course they have a different publisher and they have a higher patch level, but it is the same game. You can read often "...they are aware of the land / crafting / [insert every shitty mechanic in aa] problem and it will get patched..." etc. etc. . This is nonsense.
There is a difference between impatience in general or the frustration that you are unable to work towards something in a structured and comprehensible manner. RNG is always bad design and the crafting in AA is no difference.
People have posted the math behind the LP needed to craft the best gear in the game. It was so RIDICULOUS that even I didn't take it seriously. (seems almost no one did, judging by how few posters even batted the math an eyelash. No one even bothered trying to justify or white knight it, for crying out loud. Many neutrals, fanboys, newbies, and haters alike just ignored the posts with the math)
However, it was very VERY true (again, even the white knights and fanboys didn't contest it), and honestly, anyone who was taking it seriously would have run away from Archeage screaming.
As pointed out by someone else in this thread, no one in Korea has the best gear and it's been TWO YEARS.
Whenever I see people post "I have no problems with LP! And soon I'll be crafting my own gear!", I can't help but think back to those posts on just what high level crafting entails in this game.
It's kinda like those facebook games where you have no problems with energy/stamina/labor points at first, but then you get to the end game and everything requires so much of everything that it's just such a rude awakening...
Originally posted by Kyleran I'm sure the other crafters will bee happy to see you leave, less competition and all that.
I would have never imagined that you of all people would ever behave like this, that too over an asian F2P MMO. No one is immune to the 'fanboy' bug it seems.
I leveled up tailoring past 50k so I could make the bets armor in the game. I knew it was going to be expensive and tedious just to make one piece, but little did I know how ridiculously tedious it would really be.
So I get to illustrious which takes a crapload of mats and time because you have to make every single piece tp make the next, which is just stupid in itself. Just make the next one cost more mats....stupid. Anyway, now I get to illustrious and have this mystery item to open up.....I get some lake hood. I go to craft Magnificent and low and behold......I need an OCEAN hood.
Really?! I go through all of those f'ing mats, and I need some random luck roll just to get the item to make the next item? The crap already takes a crapload of mats and money, now I need luck too?
About done with this grindfest. Once you get over the initial cool you discover this game is just one big grind, everything requires a grind.
Did you honestly think that you would be making high end items in ArcheAge within first month with ease?
You do realize in Korea after 2 years there is not a single character decked out in best in slot gear yet?
You do realize that ArcheAge has no item decay right?
So yes high end crafted gear is ridiculously rare - which keeps it ridiculously valuable for years.
In our version there are already guilds with top tier gear, they paid super amounts of money and apex to get it, but it's available if you have the money...that's where the P2W comes in. It'll take 2+ years if you don't buy things, where someone can do it in a month with the time, resources, and people.
There's a guild on Inoch that has an Eznan Cutter, and with 10+ people in the best gear that's in the game. If they see you on the high seas, you're dead...no ifs ands or buts. We tried to fight them off and got almost 2 raid groups full of people together, but we got slaughtered. We were able to kill one of them....
People have posted the math behind the LP needed to craft the best gear in the game. It was so RIDICULOUS that even I didn't take it seriously.
You are right, that "math" you are talking about is for someone do it alone so i didnt care neither take it serious because thats not the way AA should work or was build for.
Choose your grind. Don't like a crafting grind? How about a leveling grind? or grinding tokens/badges/comms, How about grinding rare gear drops, or grinding reputation or grinding honor.
Playing MMOs is simply choosing your preferred way to grind.
People have posted the math behind the LP needed to craft the best gear in the game. It was so RIDICULOUS that even I didn't take it seriously.
You are right, that "math" you are talking about is for someone do it alone so i didnt care neither take it serious because thats not the way AA should work or was build for.
It's ridiculous even when done in a group. However, it does at least go from "You'll die of old age first" to "Hey, you might actually finish this in a couple years. Maybe."
That said, crafting in a group is not something for everyone. That's another thing people need to realize about Archeage. They come in thinking they can carve a name out for themselves in the world but you NEED other players to get anywhere even with crafting (this original poster included. Note that he mastered tailoring hoping to craft for himself without knowing that in Archeage, crafting is a group activity in its own unless you don't mind dying of old age before making anything)
So sure, by some peoples' opinions, needing others even to craft anything within any decent time frame is a good thing for the game. For the vast majority of people, however, that's a level of socialization they really just don't have the time, energy, or care to bother with, so it's a rude awakening when they find out that's what it takes to really progress in the game (because it's mathematically unfeasible to do it yourself)
Honestly, "Needing a group to craft" is probably overestimating the market. It's almost along the lines of "needing 40 players to raid", except not THAT bad. But it's probably another reason why Archeage isn't doing so well in other regions. As neat as the idea of crafting being a group project thing is, such a thing probably just isn't very good for a game's business success.
People have posted the math behind the LP needed to craft the best gear in the game. It was so RIDICULOUS that even I didn't take it seriously.
You are right, that "math" you are talking about is for someone do it alone so i didnt care neither take it serious because thats not the way AA should work or was build for.
...
Honestly, "Needing a group to craft" is probably overestimating the market. It's almost along the lines of "needing 40 players to raid", except not THAT bad. But it's probably another reason why Archeage isn't doing so well in other regions. As neat as the idea of crafting being a group project thing is, such a thing probably just isn't very good for a game's business success.
There are 2 ways to play "economy" in group in AA:
- The direct way (Guild, friends, family) and theres is no need to ppl be on at same time so dont understand the 40 man raiding anology.
- Indirect way (AH), maybe less profit but still a tottaly valid option.
People have posted the math behind the LP needed to craft the best gear in the game. It was so RIDICULOUS that even I didn't take it seriously.
You are right, that "math" you are talking about is for someone do it alone so i didnt care neither take it serious because thats not the way AA should work or was build for.
...
Honestly, "Needing a group to craft" is probably overestimating the market. It's almost along the lines of "needing 40 players to raid", except not THAT bad. But it's probably another reason why Archeage isn't doing so well in other regions. As neat as the idea of crafting being a group project thing is, such a thing probably just isn't very good for a game's business success.
There are 2 ways to play "economy" in group in AA:
- The direct way (Guild, friends, family) and theres is no need to ppl be on at same time so dont understand the 40 man raiding anology.
- Indirect way (AH), maybe less profit but still a tottaly valid option.
Like I said, it's not "that bad" (if Archeage was as bad as Wildstar, Archeage wouldn't simply be underpopulated in other regions. It'd be DEAD)
It's still appealing to a significantly more niche playerbase than most players initially realize. Lots of people, when they think of crafting, simply think of being able to do it themselves without having to rely on either a guild or playing the Auction house (playing the Auction house is definately a "not for everyone" type of game for sure).
Again, you need only look as far as the OP of this thread. But if you look around other Archeage threads too, you'll see a lot of people who wanted to do things for themselves and simply didn't realize you need social interaction to do it in Archeage. And sure, you can tell them "Get a group then!" (which is exactly what lots of people did tell them in those other threads), but... will they? Maybe some will. The rest will probably just leave. Hence why it's niche and judging by how Archeage is doing in other regions, likely not a very good model for an MMO's business success.
I don't mind grinding when it comes to crafting. What breaks the deal for me is RNG. If I don't know WTF I am making when I choose to make it, that becomes a failed system to me.
Hilariously enough, crafting making the best gear (that could feasibly be obtained by a casual player) in Wildstar is part of what killed it.
In Wildstar, crafted gear is 2nd only to raid gear in many ways. So what happens when everyone has crafted gear?
They have no need to do dungeons, adventures, or farm mobs whatsoever. The loot "not being better than what I already have" constantly came up as a reason why "Doing anything but raiding in Wildstar is pointless"
Course, it isn't really analogous to Archeage since you can craft the best gear in Wildstar in like... a month? Just an interesting thing to note about the dangers of making crafting too easy and too good at the same time in a theme park MMO like Wildstar.
Like I said, it's not "that bad" (if Archeage was as bad as Wildstar, Archeage wouldn't simply be underpopulated in other regions. It'd be DEAD)
It's still appealing to a significantly more niche playerbase than most players initially realize. Lots of people, when they think of crafting, simply think of being able to do it themselves without having to rely on either a guild or playing the Auction house (playing the Auction house is definately a "not for everyone" type of game for sure).
Again, you need only look as far as the OP of this thread. But if you look around other Archeage threads too, you'll see a lot of people who wanted to do things for themselves and simply didn't realize you need social interaction to do it in Archeage. And sure, you can tell them "Get a group then!" (which is exactly what lots of people did tell them in those other threads), but... will they? Maybe some will. The rest will probably just leave. Hence why it's niche and judging by how Archeage is doing in other regions, likely not a very good model for an MMO's business success.
But that is exactly where AA shines for me, its a mmorpg based in players interacting, thats exactly what i look for in a mmorpg.
Theres alot of great games launch this last years, AA might not be the best game but is the best MMORPG because have one thing that i miss on other releases: Player relations really matter here and we have to play with others directly or indirectly if we want to archive higher objectives whatever they are.
I didnt had this feeling since L2 C3, 4.
AA could be way better? im sure it could, theres some thing i dont like it but for now is what i have to play a real MMORPG insted just one more great game that faill in the "mmorpg" part like the AAA releases in this last years.
And i only play 3, 4h a day and most of that time im semi-afk doing other stuff in real life.
you should have gone a little further with the crafting man, if you had made that piece of armor you could have sold it for more gold than required for all the materials and time to make it, you said you were wanting to be a master armor smith probably for the extra gold to do game stuff, not only would you have had more gold but you could have kept doing the process, meaning even more gold, and more land which is scarce in arche age
Like I said, it's not "that bad" (if Archeage was as bad as Wildstar, Archeage wouldn't simply be underpopulated in other regions. It'd be DEAD)
It's still appealing to a significantly more niche playerbase than most players initially realize. Lots of people, when they think of crafting, simply think of being able to do it themselves without having to rely on either a guild or playing the Auction house (playing the Auction house is definately a "not for everyone" type of game for sure).
Again, you need only look as far as the OP of this thread. But if you look around other Archeage threads too, you'll see a lot of people who wanted to do things for themselves and simply didn't realize you need social interaction to do it in Archeage. And sure, you can tell them "Get a group then!" (which is exactly what lots of people did tell them in those other threads), but... will they? Maybe some will. The rest will probably just leave. Hence why it's niche and judging by how Archeage is doing in other regions, likely not a very good model for an MMO's business success.
But that is exactly where AA shines for me, its a mmorpg based in players interacting, thats exactly what i look for in a mmorpg.
I did say it was "Niche". Part of the whole point of a niche is that the game "shines" for those whom it's a niche for. Archeage is a niche for those who like the increased importance of social interaction (for both crafting and PvP) as well as the extreme difficulty associated with it ("difficulty" in terms of "Not everyone can have the best stuff". ...well, that and the open world PvP competition aspect, of course).
I just find it sad that most players when they first get into the game don't realize that's what the Archeage niche is. (well, and as stated, that niche alas might not be big enough for a game's business success).
Honestly, if anything, Archeage is probably the game that should be tagged with a "hardcore" label of sorts. If you aren't able to socialize, deal with politics, and keep up with the gear race in an efficient manner (which requires knowing the system, socializing, paying instead of free-to-playing, etc etc etc... ye gods, those people who keep posting "I'm doing fine as a free player!" are in for a VERY rude awakening eventually), you're gonna get screwed in the long run.
It would be interesting to hear from eve vets who were in at the start of eve - any of you out there that was there? I can imagine similar discussions and issues while those that truly loved a sandbox gradually evolved while those that didn't understand the politics and economics involved struggled to get the game.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Kyleran I'm sure the other crafters will bee happy to see you leave, less competition and all that.
Huh. You're kind of a meany. Are you upset that he doesn't like something about your new favorite game? I don't see why you should be, unless the game and how others feel about it is somehow linked to your own self worth, which wouldn't be a good thing.
Anyways OP, I'm surprised you made it so far with the crafting. I'd have done myself in long before that. This game has so many neat things, but so poorly implemented. It's no wonder it bombed in the east.
LOL, check out my signature, I'm called much more than "a meany." I'm strongly against the overuse of hyperbole and the title of the OP "Worst crafting ever" is a classic example of flame baiting so I tend to respond in kind. I enjoy AA that's true, but it's fine with me if you think the RNG portion is a terrible feature, but doesn't make the crafting in AA the "worst" by any reasonable definition you can come up with.
Originally posted by Acidon
Originally posted by ThumbtackJ
Originally posted by Kyleran I'm sure the other crafters will bee happy to see you leave, less competition and all that.
Huh. You're kind of a meany. Are you upset that he doesn't like something about your new favorite game? I don't see why you should be, unless the game and how others feel about it is somehow linked to your own self worth, which wouldn't be a good thing.
Anyways OP, I'm surprised you made it so far with the crafting. I'd have done myself in long before that. This game has so many neat things, but so poorly implemented. It's no wonder it bombed in the east.
I don't think Kyleran is even playing AA, is he? I'll admit I haven't been paying attention in the forums.
Anyway, AA is not my bag, but it sounds like the OP got burnt out. That must have been some serious craft grinding.
While I did shell out for founder status, I haven't joined the "fun" since go live. Sort of waiting for the fury to calm down as I've found most MMORPG's that I've enjoyed in the past I joined well past launch date so willing to wait a bit on this one.
Originally posted by Siug
Originally posted by Kyleran I'm sure the other crafters will bee happy to see you leave, less competition and all that.
This kind of pathetic fanboism only harms both games and communities.
Several of you made the mistake of thinking this was some sort of "go back to WOW" fanboyism. Not at all, IMO top tier crafting should be very hard to achieve and only few people should ever be able to accomplish it. (casuals need not apply).
This makes their services both necessary and rare, allowing them to command premium prices for their goods and services, you shouldn't be able to find a master crafter on every corner.
As such, less competition is better, the few people in this top bracket, the better it is for the "survivors," so yes, like I said, I'm sure the other top tier crafters (or wannabes) are not at all upset that the OP might leave the game, only makes good sense when you are competing with others on the economic front. (being able to kill and loot your competition would be even better)
Originally posted by Bad.dog
Originally posted by Siug
Originally posted by Kyleran I'm sure the other crafters will bee happy to see you leave, less competition and all that.
This kind of pathetic fanboism only harms both games and communities.
yea what fun is it playing a game that you can't beat in three weeks ...no use dancing on a mailbox unless you're nude or have the best gear in game
My point exactly, top tier crafting should almost be a lifetime effort, taking an extreme amount of time and effort (think years) no matter how much someone plays. (sort of how top tier raids should be if they are going to drop the best gear)
Originally posted by holdenhamlet
Originally posted by Mardukk
Originally posted by Gdemami
Originally posted by Jabas
Players dont need to accept this definition about the game neither follow mine that is contrary then yours.
Players can try/play for free or spend only 13euros/15dollars for 1 month and then take their own opinions, some will agree with your statment some dont.
No need for "i told you so..."
This is not a matter of definition, it is what the game is. That isn't negative nor positive, different strokes for different folks. I have no preconception against asain games, I enjoyed Tera quite a lot but I won't pretend it is something it isn't.
You might be denying apparent or you can be just enjoying the game but that does not change what the game is and that is the issue here.
People expected and percieved the game as western AAA title, but that is simply false - the game is asian, the game is low cost, the game is generic. You like it? No issue there.
This game is anything but generic. I've not seen any other MMO's out there like it. Not anything even remotely close really.
I have no idea what they were thinking with the RNG on high end crafting.
What they are thinking is to make it really difficult to craft. Remember, you get BIS gear from crafting.
Normally in most MMOs, you grind dungeons and tiers of Raids for BIS gear. In this game you craft it.
I actually like the approach because it ties the best gear to the economy and makes crafting meaningful.
Bingo, and Koreans are famous for putting a RNG element in their crafting. If you've ever played Lineage 1, 2 you know the joy's of enchanting gear up to high levels to only watch in horror as it blows up and all your money and effort go down the drain. This is normal for many eastern games, though most western gamers aren't all the favorable to it.
Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
Originally posted by Kyleran I'm sure the other crafters will bee happy to see you leave, less competition and all that.
I would have never imagined that you of all people would ever behave like this, that too over an asian F2P MMO. No one is immune to the 'fanboy' bug it seems.
Behave like what? A rational economic competitor who if I ever did decide to try for top tier crafting, would be happy to see other people drop out of the race if I managed to persevere.
I don't craft often, but once in DAOC I was in the top 4 SC'ers on my server and along with just a few others I could craft some items no one else could. Eventually more folks joined us up at the top and my services became far less valuable.
I play MMORPG's to compete and if someone is in the way of my success in the pursuit of my goals, I'm happy to show them the door, especially if they seem to be willing to lead the way there due to their own lack of character.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I leveled up tailoring past 50k so I could make the bets armor in the game. I knew it was going to be expensive and tedious just to make one piece, but little did I know how ridiculously tedious it would really be.
So I get to illustrious which takes a crapload of mats and time because you have to make every single piece tp make the next, which is just stupid in itself. Just make the next one cost more mats....stupid. Anyway, now I get to illustrious and have this mystery item to open up.....I get some lake hood. I go to craft Magnificent and low and behold......I need an OCEAN hood.
Really?! I go through all of those f'ing mats, and I need some random luck roll just to get the item to make the next item? The crap already takes a crapload of mats and money, now I need luck too?
About done with this grindfest. Once you get over the initial cool you discover this game is just one big grind, everything requires a grind.
I like games in which making the best of something literally take more than a year of real life playing.
Not doing that task during each play time of course but a game where you can literally map out where you think you will be 1 or 2 years in the future.
I think that is the difference between a hobby and idle pastime.
I leveled up tailoring past 50k so I could make the bets armor in the game. I knew it was going to be expensive and tedious just to make one piece, but little did I know how ridiculously tedious it would really be.
So I get to illustrious which takes a crapload of mats and time because you have to make every single piece tp make the next, which is just stupid in itself. Just make the next one cost more mats....stupid. Anyway, now I get to illustrious and have this mystery item to open up.....I get some lake hood. I go to craft Magnificent and low and behold......I need an OCEAN hood.
Really?! I go through all of those f'ing mats, and I need some random luck roll just to get the item to make the next item? The crap already takes a crapload of mats and money, now I need luck too?
About done with this grindfest. Once you get over the initial cool you discover this game is just one big grind, everything requires a grind.
I like games in which making the best of something literally take more than a year of real life playing.
Not doing that task during each play time of course but a game where you can literally map out where you think you will be 1 or 2 years in the future.
I think that is the difference between a hobby and idle pastime.
How many people will still be playing this game in 2 years from now?
I leveled up tailoring past 50k so I could make the bets armor in the game. I knew it was going to be expensive and tedious just to make one piece, but little did I know how ridiculously tedious it would really be.
So I get to illustrious which takes a crapload of mats and time because you have to make every single piece tp make the next, which is just stupid in itself. Just make the next one cost more mats....stupid. Anyway, now I get to illustrious and have this mystery item to open up.....I get some lake hood. I go to craft Magnificent and low and behold......I need an OCEAN hood.
Really?! I go through all of those f'ing mats, and I need some random luck roll just to get the item to make the next item? The crap already takes a crapload of mats and money, now I need luck too?
About done with this grindfest. Once you get over the initial cool you discover this game is just one big grind, everything requires a grind.
Comments
I like the crafting...
One ....your not limited to two crafts... sure you specialize later... but you can dabble in everything.
Two ....The gear is actually really good, on par if not better then dropped.
Three... No silly mini game crafting
Four ... it is time consuming material gathering...
Dunno, I think it's fine.
I see AA more as a marathon than a sprint. I mean, compare it to some (most) MMO that have you max craft in hours and then you figure best stuff is a boss drop anyway, and most of the crafted things are dirt cheap on AH and thus not worth crafting at all...I'll take AAs crafting. Sure it's RNG, but well, it's a Korean grind RNG game, what did you expect?
Anyways, game is much much more fun if you have a guild cooperating together, or at least a family group that you share stuff with. I'd never set foot in AA if I had to do stuff alone. I mean, crafting is the same (at least in AA) for me as the sea battles...you can't expect to get a galleon and then rape enemis...no sir, you need a driver, a radar dude, anchor dude, and 2-4 ppl min to fire cannons and defend...and that's a skeleton crew imo. Cooperation yo.
I guess I might be influenced by my mentality going into the game. I knew exactly what I'm going into. Grindfest
. Didn't expect the rampant hacking and botting tho, bums me out.
Edit: Crafting is a bit shafted by the Hasla weapons. They should not be in the game at this point. Perhaps when they released Auroria or even later, the library. They're so much better than the armor that is (somewhat) easly made - Illustrious, and even magnificent. Haslas were a catch up mechanics that have no business in the game at launch. Hell, Koreans didn't even had quest armors and weapons at the start...crafting all the way = happy crafters. And again, you're not meant to gear up in days.
People complain that you need lower level stuff to make the next higher level stuff but they dont understand the mechanics/purpose of this process. As a crafter entering into the game after it has been out for 6 months, how many low level people are going to want to buy your crappy low level junk you grinded out to move to level 2? You just end up selling it to a vendor for pennies on the dollar or you flood the AH with it at dimes on the dollar. Think back to SWG and all the low level crap on the AH that you could not even give away.
I think the system is brilliant from a crafters standpoint. The crap I grind out at lower levels is actually needed and I can use it to get to the next level or sell it because others can actually use it now when they level up. I dont think the "guess-what-you-get" stuff at higher levels is a good idea but as far as the reuse of lower tier items goes, it has a purpose and it works well in filling that purpose. If you just want to grind out disposable crap to get to the highest level, just about all other MMO's allow you to do that. AA is different and in many of the mechanics you can see real thought went into them. Its a shame that it is wasted on a big portion of the current gaming community.
I didn't play too much GW2, but was it miles better than gear from drops/pvp?
Basically the only way to get top notch gear in Archeage is crafting (besides weapons which you can get from Hasla).
If you never craft or buy from crafters, you'll never be able to compete.
It's basically like top-level crafting is level 100 gear and dropped gear is level 25.
I've never seen anything like that in an MMO I've played. Normally crafting produces one or two items which are barely on par with stuff you can get from drops.
The difference being that the economy and crafting is paramount in this game.
ArcheAge is over 1,5 Years old. It has been released in Korea in January 2013. Of course they have a different publisher and they have a higher patch level, but it is the same game. You can read often "...they are aware of the land / crafting / [insert every shitty mechanic in aa] problem and it will get patched..." etc. etc. . This is nonsense.
There is a difference between impatience in general or the frustration that you are unable to work towards something in a structured and comprehensible manner. RNG is always bad design and the crafting in AA is no difference.
People have posted the math behind the LP needed to craft the best gear in the game. It was so RIDICULOUS that even I didn't take it seriously. (seems almost no one did, judging by how few posters even batted the math an eyelash. No one even bothered trying to justify or white knight it, for crying out loud. Many neutrals, fanboys, newbies, and haters alike just ignored the posts with the math)
However, it was very VERY true (again, even the white knights and fanboys didn't contest it), and honestly, anyone who was taking it seriously would have run away from Archeage screaming.
As pointed out by someone else in this thread, no one in Korea has the best gear and it's been TWO YEARS.
Whenever I see people post "I have no problems with LP! And soon I'll be crafting my own gear!", I can't help but think back to those posts on just what high level crafting entails in this game.
It's kinda like those facebook games where you have no problems with energy/stamina/labor points at first, but then you get to the end game and everything requires so much of everything that it's just such a rude awakening...
I would have never imagined that you of all people would ever behave like this, that too over an asian F2P MMO. No one is immune to the 'fanboy' bug it seems.
In our version there are already guilds with top tier gear, they paid super amounts of money and apex to get it, but it's available if you have the money...that's where the P2W comes in. It'll take 2+ years if you don't buy things, where someone can do it in a month with the time, resources, and people.
There's a guild on Inoch that has an Eznan Cutter, and with 10+ people in the best gear that's in the game. If they see you on the high seas, you're dead...no ifs ands or buts. We tried to fight them off and got almost 2 raid groups full of people together, but we got slaughtered. We were able to kill one of them....
You are right, that "math" you are talking about is for someone do it alone so i didnt care neither take it serious because thats not the way AA should work or was build for.
Choose your grind. Don't like a crafting grind? How about a leveling grind? or grinding tokens/badges/comms, How about grinding rare gear drops, or grinding reputation or grinding honor.
Playing MMOs is simply choosing your preferred way to grind.
All die, so die well.
It's ridiculous even when done in a group. However, it does at least go from "You'll die of old age first" to "Hey, you might actually finish this in a couple years. Maybe."
That said, crafting in a group is not something for everyone. That's another thing people need to realize about Archeage. They come in thinking they can carve a name out for themselves in the world but you NEED other players to get anywhere even with crafting (this original poster included. Note that he mastered tailoring hoping to craft for himself without knowing that in Archeage, crafting is a group activity in its own unless you don't mind dying of old age before making anything)
So sure, by some peoples' opinions, needing others even to craft anything within any decent time frame is a good thing for the game. For the vast majority of people, however, that's a level of socialization they really just don't have the time, energy, or care to bother with, so it's a rude awakening when they find out that's what it takes to really progress in the game (because it's mathematically unfeasible to do it yourself)
Honestly, "Needing a group to craft" is probably overestimating the market. It's almost along the lines of "needing 40 players to raid", except not THAT bad. But it's probably another reason why Archeage isn't doing so well in other regions. As neat as the idea of crafting being a group project thing is, such a thing probably just isn't very good for a game's business success.
There are 2 ways to play "economy" in group in AA:
- The direct way (Guild, friends, family) and theres is no need to ppl be on at same time so dont understand the 40 man raiding anology.
- Indirect way (AH), maybe less profit but still a tottaly valid option.
Like I said, it's not "that bad" (if Archeage was as bad as Wildstar, Archeage wouldn't simply be underpopulated in other regions. It'd be DEAD)
It's still appealing to a significantly more niche playerbase than most players initially realize. Lots of people, when they think of crafting, simply think of being able to do it themselves without having to rely on either a guild or playing the Auction house (playing the Auction house is definately a "not for everyone" type of game for sure).
Again, you need only look as far as the OP of this thread. But if you look around other Archeage threads too, you'll see a lot of people who wanted to do things for themselves and simply didn't realize you need social interaction to do it in Archeage. And sure, you can tell them "Get a group then!" (which is exactly what lots of people did tell them in those other threads), but... will they? Maybe some will. The rest will probably just leave. Hence why it's niche and judging by how Archeage is doing in other regions, likely not a very good model for an MMO's business success.
How have you not heard of ESO?
You stay sassy!
I don't mind grinding when it comes to crafting. What breaks the deal for me is RNG. If I don't know WTF I am making when I choose to make it, that becomes a failed system to me.
Hilariously enough, crafting making the best gear (that could feasibly be obtained by a casual player) in Wildstar is part of what killed it.
In Wildstar, crafted gear is 2nd only to raid gear in many ways. So what happens when everyone has crafted gear?
They have no need to do dungeons, adventures, or farm mobs whatsoever. The loot "not being better than what I already have" constantly came up as a reason why "Doing anything but raiding in Wildstar is pointless"
Course, it isn't really analogous to Archeage since you can craft the best gear in Wildstar in like... a month? Just an interesting thing to note about the dangers of making crafting too easy and too good at the same time in a theme park MMO like Wildstar.
But that is exactly where AA shines for me, its a mmorpg based in players interacting, thats exactly what i look for in a mmorpg.
Theres alot of great games launch this last years, AA might not be the best game but is the best MMORPG because have one thing that i miss on other releases: Player relations really matter here and we have to play with others directly or indirectly if we want to archive higher objectives whatever they are.
I didnt had this feeling since L2 C3, 4.
AA could be way better? im sure it could, theres some thing i dont like it but for now is what i have to play a real MMORPG insted just one more great game that faill in the "mmorpg" part like the AAA releases in this last years.
And i only play 3, 4h a day and most of that time im semi-afk doing other stuff in real life.
I did say it was "Niche". Part of the whole point of a niche is that the game "shines" for those whom it's a niche for. Archeage is a niche for those who like the increased importance of social interaction (for both crafting and PvP) as well as the extreme difficulty associated with it ("difficulty" in terms of "Not everyone can have the best stuff". ...well, that and the open world PvP competition aspect, of course).
I just find it sad that most players when they first get into the game don't realize that's what the Archeage niche is. (well, and as stated, that niche alas might not be big enough for a game's business success).
Honestly, if anything, Archeage is probably the game that should be tagged with a "hardcore" label of sorts. If you aren't able to socialize, deal with politics, and keep up with the gear race in an efficient manner (which requires knowing the system, socializing, paying instead of free-to-playing, etc etc etc... ye gods, those people who keep posting "I'm doing fine as a free player!" are in for a VERY rude awakening eventually), you're gonna get screwed in the long run.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
LOL, check out my signature, I'm called much more than "a meany." I'm strongly against the overuse of hyperbole and the title of the OP "Worst crafting ever" is a classic example of flame baiting so I tend to respond in kind. I enjoy AA that's true, but it's fine with me if you think the RNG portion is a terrible feature, but doesn't make the crafting in AA the "worst" by any reasonable definition you can come up with.
While I did shell out for founder status, I haven't joined the "fun" since go live. Sort of waiting for the fury to calm down as I've found most MMORPG's that I've enjoyed in the past I joined well past launch date so willing to wait a bit on this one.
Several of you made the mistake of thinking this was some sort of "go back to WOW" fanboyism. Not at all, IMO top tier crafting should be very hard to achieve and only few people should ever be able to accomplish it. (casuals need not apply).
This makes their services both necessary and rare, allowing them to command premium prices for their goods and services, you shouldn't be able to find a master crafter on every corner.
As such, less competition is better, the few people in this top bracket, the better it is for the "survivors," so yes, like I said, I'm sure the other top tier crafters (or wannabes) are not at all upset that the OP might leave the game, only makes good sense when you are competing with others on the economic front. (being able to kill and loot your competition would be even better)
My point exactly, top tier crafting should almost be a lifetime effort, taking an extreme amount of time and effort (think years) no matter how much someone plays. (sort of how top tier raids should be if they are going to drop the best gear) Bingo, and Koreans are famous for putting a RNG element in their crafting. If you've ever played Lineage 1, 2 you know the joy's of enchanting gear up to high levels to only watch in horror as it blows up and all your money and effort go down the drain. This is normal for many eastern games, though most western gamers aren't all the favorable to it.Behave like what? A rational economic competitor who if I ever did decide to try for top tier crafting, would be happy to see other people drop out of the race if I managed to persevere.
I don't craft often, but once in DAOC I was in the top 4 SC'ers on my server and along with just a few others I could craft some items no one else could. Eventually more folks joined us up at the top and my services became far less valuable.
I play MMORPG's to compete and if someone is in the way of my success in the pursuit of my goals, I'm happy to show them the door, especially if they seem to be willing to lead the way there due to their own lack of character.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I like games in which making the best of something literally take more than a year of real life playing.
Not doing that task during each play time of course but a game where you can literally map out where you think you will be 1 or 2 years in the future.
I think that is the difference between a hobby and idle pastime.
How many people will still be playing this game in 2 years from now?
I disagree I have seen a lot worse.