Originally posted by fivoroth @zzax, what consequences are there to me afk waiting in town to find a party then running to the dungeon?
If you are good, you will be known for being good, thus you will be invited often. Its consequence of being good.
Toxic players, known ninjas, trolls and baddies, in other hand, should be naturally filtered by the community. But it cant work in games with dungeon finder. You can be biggest sucker on whole earth, you will still get in and destroy someones fun.
If you are good, chances are no one will notice it and no amount of your doing will get you invited back to a group. Trust me when I say that I am one of the best gamers you'll ever play with and I have the credentials to back it up but time and time again I found myself quitting MMO's that failed to initiate a dungeon finder because no one cares about others or can remember others due to server sizes. You can be the best player ever and in the modern MMO it won't make you get faster P.U.G.'s. If I had to bet I'd say you never PUG and are always playing with friends and can group at a moments notice. Many of us are not like that and the last thing we want to do especially if our time is limited, is to stand around spamming LFG.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
We all have our differences in several aspects that I consider small potato's. But were all here day after day, year after year WAITING for the same thing :
- A full size mmo.
- Slower leveling, that a community can be built.
- Harder challenging game that involves some cooperation with others now and then.
- A life inside a game world, where everything isn't crammed together every five feet.
- Open world without zoning ( this has been done many times in the past, what had changed ).
For the true mmo player we ALL want the same thing.......A real mmo, but never get it !
Speak for yourself and please do not include me in the "we".
I don't want slow leveling or care much about a community.
I am playing games, and do not want "life" inside a game world.
And please do more instanced games. Open world without zoning? Don't tell me I need to slowly travel the land and camp with other people. I will pass.
I don't think anyone had any intent to include you in the "we".
I think this topic was directed more towards MMO players.
Well, this site is full of Gamers, not mmo players.
No...this site is full of people that play MMOs and are gamers. We may all be gamers, but I am not here to find the best SP shooter or some BS RTS/Card game/MOBA craze.
I can find out that elsewhere
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
For the true mmo player we ALL want the same thing.......A real mmo, but never get it !
I got it atm, seems im not a real mmo player...
Same here - I've been playing real MMOs for 16 years.
Funny - how you have a game that delivers in 90% of all aspects but folks like to focus on 10% and say - well it sucks because its not 100% perfect.
Good luck finding a game that is 100% perfect and taliored to your specific needs.
I think for the seekers of that mmorpg that does not come, the numbers are reversed.. the best mmorpgs are only 10% perfect. That sums up the problem very well. 90/10 players are content and the 10/90 are still looking, and however many posts here it is clear that either you get it or you don't.. If you try to explain what it is, you get two kind of replies, those who get it, and those who haven't got a clue.
2) This generation wants instant gratification, there are not enough gamers to support the old time MMO design, slow leveling, diverse world, social center. Remember, when these types of games were popular the bulk of social media had not started. EQ and the like were the facebook, twitter, instagram and so on of that generation.
Not just this generation. I am of the old generation (my son is going to college) and I do NOT support old time MMO design (slow leveling, social center, down-time ....).
No...this site is full of people that play MMOs and are gamers. We may all be gamers, but I am not here to find the best SP shooter or some BS RTS/Card game/MOBA craze.
I can find out that elsewhere
No .. i don't need this site to find the best shooter or RTS.
However, this is a MMO site, and since I am a gamer, I don't see a reason not to compare MMOs with other type of games, and talk about how MMOs can evolve and use ideas from other genre.
Originally posted by fivoroth @zzax, what consequences are there to me afk waiting in town to find a party then running to the dungeon?
If you are good, you will be known for being good, thus you will be invited often. Its consequence of being good.
Toxic players, known ninjas, trolls and baddies, in other hand, should be naturally filtered by the community. But it cant work in games with dungeon finder. You can be biggest sucker on whole earth, you will still get in and destroy someones fun.
If you are good, chances are no one will notice it and no amount of your doing will get you invited back to a group. Trust me when I say that I am one of the best gamers you'll ever play with and I have the credentials to back it up but time and time again I found myself quitting MMO's that failed to initiate a dungeon finder because no one cares about others or can remember others due to server sizes. You can be the best player ever and in the modern MMO it won't make you get faster P.U.G.'s. If I had to bet I'd say you never PUG and are always playing with friends and can group at a moments notice. Many of us are not like that and the last thing we want to do especially if our time is limited, is to stand around spamming LFG.
Best gamer ?
If your one of the best gamers why don't you use the social panel THAT COMES WITH EVERY MMO EVER MADE ?
The socal panel in most every mmo alows you to search out players by Level such as 20-25, or Class or Zone.
You can ask them directly.....people don't read rolling chat bottom line.
I've been doint this method for 10 years and find groups in ANY mmo is less than 10 min. EVERYTIME ( always start off with a tank ) If the population is low on tanks you will know in 5 min.
Some jurk here will probabily say thats rude !!!..........Bull, 10 years of doing this getting hundreds or even thousands of players togeather, I may have had like 3 people say dont bother me.
If your one of the best gamers why don't you use the social panel THAT COMES WITH EVERY MMO EVER MADE ?
The socal panel in most every mmo alows you to search out players by Level such as 20-25, or Class or Zone.
You can ask them directly.....people don't read rolling chat bottom line.
I've been doint this method for 10 years and find groups in ANY mmo is less than 10 min. EVERYTIME ( always start off with a tank ) If the population is low on tanks you will know in 5 min.
Some jurk here will probabily say thats rude !!!..........Bull, 10 years of doing this getting hundreds or even thousands of players togeather, I may have had like 3 people say dont bother me.
I have to agree, its just people forgot how to make groups. People complained that it was impossible to create groups in Swtor on populated servers, but that was only because people were so used with wow's dungeon finder that they simply forgot how to create groups.
Real issue is that people don't really care enough to make groups on their own.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
I have to agree, its just people forgot how to make groups. People complained that it was impossible to create groups in Swtor on populated servers, but that was only because people were so used with wow's dungeon finder that they simply forgot how to create groups.
Real issue is that people don't really care enough to make groups on their own.
I have to agree, its just people forgot how to make groups. People complained that it was impossible to create groups in Swtor on populated servers, but that was only because people were so used with wow's dungeon finder that they simply forgot how to create groups.
Real issue is that people don't really care enough to make groups on their own.
Or may be they don't even care enough to group.
True enough, unless there is some game mechanic that highly "encourages" people to group, many are not likely to do so, just too much hassle for not enough reward.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
We all have our differences in several aspects that I consider small potato's. But were all here day after day, year after year WAITING for the same thing :
- A full size mmo.
- Slower leveling, that a community can be built.
- Harder challenging game that involves some cooperation with others now and then.
- A life inside a game world, where everything isn't crammed together every five feet.
- Open world without zoning ( this has been done many times in the past, what had changed ).
Sounds like Vanguard which I actually really liked, unfortunately it was virtually empty when I played it so kind of shoots down your thesis that everybody wants this sort of game (although I think a game like Vanguard could have done better if presented/marketed better.)
I don't think an MMO needs a completely open world with no instances at all to be good. Instances have their uses for sure. DDO and GW1 both use them to very great effect.
You obviously know nothing of Vanguard's history. Brad McQuaid totally screwed it up and had a ton of people that wanted to play what should have been a great game but it was a complete disaster at launch and we told them in closed beta. Oh well, I learned my lesson, stay the hell away from anything Brad McQuaid has his hands on.
Exactly.. and it would be rather easy to add more stuff like that.
Truth is.. everyone looks for their own dream mmo. Some may share some hopes. Truth is.. we all looking for a niche MMO, and hoping we get our niche MMO, but ideally with major budget. And that one is unlikely to happen.
Even looking at the very old school crowd.. EQ1 vs. UO. More horizontal vs. vertical design. More pvp vs. more pve design. More sandbox vs. more themepark design and ongoing. There is no "we" within MMO gamers. Just a you and me and a lot of others.
Why don't we get it? Simple actually.. It's not maximized business.. From the business point of view, it is more profitable to shell out easy quick games, then actually make what everyone wants.. To make a playground as big as we want, would be an enormous undertaking.. I think one that companies do not want to risk in doing.. Plus, in all honestly I doubt the current leadership has the skills and imagination needed to create such a game.. Smed from SOE is a perfect example.. He ONLY sees gaming from HIS biased viewpoints..
Originally posted by Rydeson Why don't we get it? Simple actually.. It's not maximized business.. From the business point of view, it is more profitable to shell out easy quick games, then actually make what everyone wants.. To make a playground as big as we want, would be an enormous undertaking.. I think one that companies do not want to risk in doing.. Plus, in all honestly I doubt the current leadership has the skills and imagination needed to create such a game.. Smed from SOE is a perfect example.. He ONLY sees gaming from HIS biased viewpoints..
makes me think of the music industry in the 70s.
Some of the largest money makers for the music industry back then were strongly rejected by the industry itself.
Led Zepplin got rejected by all AM radio (AM radio was mainstream then)
Pink Floyd had (maybe still has) the longest best selling record ever and very few of their songs get radio play.
people in suits do have skills but determining artistic talent is usually not one of them.
I have to agree, its just people forgot how to make groups. People complained that it was impossible to create groups in Swtor on populated servers, but that was only because people were so used with wow's dungeon finder that they simply forgot how to create groups.
Real issue is that people don't really care enough to make groups on their own.
Or may be they don't even care enough to group.
True enough, unless there is some game mechanic that highly "encourages" people to group, many are not likely to do so, just too much hassle for not enough reward.
If you need more "reward" to encourage grouping, then grouping is not as fun as people may think.
You describe it as "too much hassle". I totally agree, at least for grouping with strangers.
Playing a game that is designed for multiple players, but not wanting to group with people - that's a bit like going to a party then dancing in the corner on your own isn't it, kinda missing the point of a party.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Apraxis ...EQ1 vs. UO. More horizontal vs. vertical design. More pvp vs. more pve design. More sandbox vs. more themepark design and ongoing...
EQ in the early years did not resemble, whatsoever, a themepark. Themeparks tell you what to do and richly reward you for doing so. In themeparks you will level the fastest by questing; questing in EQ provided almost no leveling and in fact often cost you levels.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Originally posted by Bladestrom Playing a game that is designed for multiple players, but not wanting to group with people - that's a bit like going to a party then dancing in the corner on your own isn't it, kinda missing the point of a party.
But once again, this is very one sided way of looking at it. Which is very much an aspect of some posters on this site. they can only see things from their point of view. On one hand understandable but on another hand talk about "linear thinking".
These games aren't about players "having to" or being obliged to, do every activity with everyone or doing activities in one way.
Case in point, I'm an extrovert (probably an "omnivert" but "whatever") and I can be the center of attention at a party and it's great and I don't mind it and it's a role I'm comfortable with.
But there are people who go to parties who only talk with a few at that party. Heck, a good friend of mine, when witnessed at a party, will typically engage just one person in conversation for pretty much the entire party.
Everyone plays these games differently. Even if it's just to "have people around". years ago I commented on the very same thing when someone indicated that certain people should just play single player games. I mentioned that there was a palpable difference between an mmo, with people "out and about" and oblivion with my filled cities mod that created npc traffic but it really was "creepy" when you realized that all they were doing was blithely circling the city, rarely doing anything else.
And besides, maybe people go to parties just to people watch?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
its not one sided, its the name of the game - MMO. The game is designed for multiple players playing together. Sure you can play solo, but dont join a mmo game and complain about the multiplayer aspects. No-one is forced in mmos to group (strawman) you just miss out on some of the content if you do, a personal choice. Re a quiet person going to a party ofc they will only speak to a few people, thats fine, they are not however wandering about the party saying 'I hate socialising, why are we socialising at this party', and even more so, they are not going to the party intending to speak to no-one - because then what is the point.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
I don't think we are all looking for the same MMO.
I disagree with the OP on many of his points of what makes his/her ideal MMO.
I'm perfectly happy with niche MMOs - my only requirement is that it entertains me, is relatively bug free, and that it is designed or scales well for whatever population it happens to have (empty barren wasteland of zones, insufficient population to execute the content provided, insufficient infrastructure for the population/overcrowded areas, etc).
I think most people have a very populist mentality - they want to be in with the "in crowd", and their choice of games needs to reflect that for whatever reason. That's all well and good if your own personal benchmark for a game is to have 1M/2M/7M/whatever number of subscribers. If that makes you happy and secure in your choice of game, that is your prerogative.
I think another common problem is that people tend to thing "I like it, therefore everyone likes it".
I don't particularly care for pure sandboxes. I get bored without at least a subtle hint of direction. Some people, especially on this site, are totally in love with the "Pure Sandbox" concept.
I don't care for PVP much. That somewhat relates to the sandbox concept, particularly at this forum, where a lot of people mentally correlate "Sandbox" with "Full world open PVP, with full looting"
That being said, I also don't like being completely hand-held. A game entirely on rails isn't much fun to me either.
I also don't care if an MMO has zones. Doesn't bother me in the least, so long as it's not excessive. WoW had zones, you just didn't see a loading screen very often - it wasn't really much different to me if I have to walk from a brown hot desert through some ridiculous winding long tunnel and on the other end the entire area is a lush green forest or red hot molten magma - really how is that different than if i just zoned over? Does the fact that the computer paused for a second to load break immersion that much more than going from total desert to total lush forest or molten hot magma with no intermediate area or transition? A wizard/druid/mage/whatever teleports you - are you not supposed to have a zoning screen for that? Is the animated zoning screen in Destiny (or many other games) really any different, than if your walking through some forced zig/zag architecture in order to buy the computer time to load the next assets anyway?
I don't wish for the perfect MMO - I'm over that for a while. I just like to hang out with friends, that's what is really the special part about MMOs - playing the game with your friends and having a persistent online community.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Playing a game that is designed for multiple players, but not wanting to group with people - that's a bit like going to a party then dancing in the corner on your own isn't it, kinda missing the point of a party.
i respond to this claim many times by pointing out this.
1. a lot of solo players do not play MMOs for the people, they play because the amount of content and size of the worlds are huge.
2. In society there are a lot of skills and attributes some people have that allow them to contribute to the whole without actually interacting with it. Some people get a lot of satisfaction out of contributing to a world filled with people without actually interacting with others. Having said that, very few games do this well for those introverts
I don't think we are all looking for the same MMO.
I disagree with the OP on many of his points of what makes his/her ideal MMO.
I'm perfectly happy with niche MMOs - my only requirement is that it entertains me, is relatively bug free, and that it is designed or scales well for whatever population it happens to have (empty barren wasteland of zones, insufficient population to execute the content provided, insufficient infrastructure for the population/overcrowded areas, etc).
I think most people have a very populist mentality - they want to be in with the "in crowd", and their choice of games needs to reflect that for whatever reason. That's all well and good if your own personal benchmark for a game is to have 1M/2M/7M/whatever number of subscribers. If that makes you happy and secure in your choice of game, that is your prerogative.
I think another common problem is that people tend to thing "I like it, therefore everyone likes it".
I don't particularly care for pure sandboxes. I get bored without at least a subtle hint of direction. Some people, especially on this site, are totally in love with the "Pure Sandbox" concept.
I don't care for PVP much. That somewhat relates to the sandbox concept, particularly at this forum, where a lot of people mentally correlate "Sandbox" with "Full world open PVP, with full looting"
That being said, I also don't like being completely hand-held. A game entirely on rails isn't much fun to me either.
I also don't care if an MMO has zones. Doesn't bother me in the least, so long as it's not excessive. WoW had zones, you just didn't see a loading screen very often - it wasn't really much different to me if I have to walk from a brown hot desert through some ridiculous winding long tunnel and on the other end the entire area is a lush green forest or red hot molten magma - really how is that different than if i just zoned over? Does the fact that the computer paused for a second to load break immersion that much more than going from total desert to total lush forest or molten hot magma with no intermediate area or transition? A wizard/druid/mage/whatever teleports you - are you not supposed to have a zoning screen for that? Is the animated zoning screen in Destiny (or many other games) really any different, than if your walking through some forced zig/zag architecture in order to buy the computer time to load the next assets anyway?
I don't wish for the perfect MMO - I'm over that for a while. I just like to hang out with friends, that's what is really the special part about MMOs - playing the game with your friends and having a persistent online community.
Well done.
I can fly higher than an aeroplane. And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes. Hurt - Wars
Lets just face it, we all want the game that delete5230 wants. So we can all stop discussing features we find enjoyable, we just need to ask our gaming god, delete5230.
You don't like me do you ?
I don't know you. You could be a perfectly reasonable human. I just reject the premise of your topic that we all want the same game.
I can fly higher than an aeroplane. And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes. Hurt - Wars
If I could choose just one thing for an MMO to have it would be no level cap. And by that I mean you level the entire game till it shuts down. This would have to be a non-pvp game as their would be no way to truly balance that type of game. It could be simply done by giving .01% of a stat per level or even smaller. I enjoy leveling in MMO's and usually end up quitting if there isn't some horizontal or some form of xp gain at the so called endgames. But this is just my wish which very few people would want other than me.
Comments
If you are good, chances are no one will notice it and no amount of your doing will get you invited back to a group. Trust me when I say that I am one of the best gamers you'll ever play with and I have the credentials to back it up but time and time again I found myself quitting MMO's that failed to initiate a dungeon finder because no one cares about others or can remember others due to server sizes. You can be the best player ever and in the modern MMO it won't make you get faster P.U.G.'s. If I had to bet I'd say you never PUG and are always playing with friends and can group at a moments notice. Many of us are not like that and the last thing we want to do especially if our time is limited, is to stand around spamming LFG.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
No...this site is full of people that play MMOs and are gamers. We may all be gamers, but I am not here to find the best SP shooter or some BS RTS/Card game/MOBA craze.
I can find out that elsewhere
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
I think for the seekers of that mmorpg that does not come, the numbers are reversed.. the best mmorpgs are only 10% perfect. That sums up the problem very well. 90/10 players are content and the 10/90 are still looking, and however many posts here it is clear that either you get it or you don't.. If you try to explain what it is, you get two kind of replies, those who get it, and those who haven't got a clue.
Test if you get it by watching this video
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
Not just this generation. I am of the old generation (my son is going to college) and I do NOT support old time MMO design (slow leveling, social center, down-time ....).
No .. i don't need this site to find the best shooter or RTS.
However, this is a MMO site, and since I am a gamer, I don't see a reason not to compare MMOs with other type of games, and talk about how MMOs can evolve and use ideas from other genre.
Best gamer ?
If your one of the best gamers why don't you use the social panel THAT COMES WITH EVERY MMO EVER MADE ?
The socal panel in most every mmo alows you to search out players by Level such as 20-25, or Class or Zone.
You can ask them directly.....people don't read rolling chat bottom line.
I've been doint this method for 10 years and find groups in ANY mmo is less than 10 min. EVERYTIME ( always start off with a tank ) If the population is low on tanks you will know in 5 min.
Some jurk here will probabily say thats rude !!!..........Bull, 10 years of doing this getting hundreds or even thousands of players togeather, I may have had like 3 people say dont bother me.
I have to agree, its just people forgot how to make groups. People complained that it was impossible to create groups in Swtor on populated servers, but that was only because people were so used with wow's dungeon finder that they simply forgot how to create groups.
Real issue is that people don't really care enough to make groups on their own.
Or may be they don't even care enough to group.
True enough, unless there is some game mechanic that highly "encourages" people to group, many are not likely to do so, just too much hassle for not enough reward.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You obviously know nothing of Vanguard's history. Brad McQuaid totally screwed it up and had a ton of people that wanted to play what should have been a great game but it was a complete disaster at launch and we told them in closed beta. Oh well, I learned my lesson, stay the hell away from anything Brad McQuaid has his hands on.
Exactly.. and it would be rather easy to add more stuff like that.
Truth is.. everyone looks for their own dream mmo. Some may share some hopes. Truth is.. we all looking for a niche MMO, and hoping we get our niche MMO, but ideally with major budget. And that one is unlikely to happen.
Even looking at the very old school crowd.. EQ1 vs. UO. More horizontal vs. vertical design. More pvp vs. more pve design. More sandbox vs. more themepark design and ongoing. There is no "we" within MMO gamers. Just a you and me and a lot of others.
I'd love to see AO2.
AO was the very first and very last MMO i felt at home at.
DDO has been quite nice too but could never beat AO in that matter.
I hate WoW and what it has done to the MMO genre.
I agree.
All I want is AO2 but thats not going to happen any time soon.
makes me think of the music industry in the 70s.
Some of the largest money makers for the music industry back then were strongly rejected by the industry itself.
Led Zepplin got rejected by all AM radio (AM radio was mainstream then)
Pink Floyd had (maybe still has) the longest best selling record ever and very few of their songs get radio play.
people in suits do have skills but determining artistic talent is usually not one of them.
If you need more "reward" to encourage grouping, then grouping is not as fun as people may think.
You describe it as "too much hassle". I totally agree, at least for grouping with strangers.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
EQ in the early years did not resemble, whatsoever, a themepark. Themeparks tell you what to do and richly reward you for doing so. In themeparks you will level the fastest by questing; questing in EQ provided almost no leveling and in fact often cost you levels.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
But once again, this is very one sided way of looking at it. Which is very much an aspect of some posters on this site. they can only see things from their point of view. On one hand understandable but on another hand talk about "linear thinking".
These games aren't about players "having to" or being obliged to, do every activity with everyone or doing activities in one way.
Case in point, I'm an extrovert (probably an "omnivert" but "whatever") and I can be the center of attention at a party and it's great and I don't mind it and it's a role I'm comfortable with.
But there are people who go to parties who only talk with a few at that party. Heck, a good friend of mine, when witnessed at a party, will typically engage just one person in conversation for pretty much the entire party.
Everyone plays these games differently. Even if it's just to "have people around". years ago I commented on the very same thing when someone indicated that certain people should just play single player games. I mentioned that there was a palpable difference between an mmo, with people "out and about" and oblivion with my filled cities mod that created npc traffic but it really was "creepy" when you realized that all they were doing was blithely circling the city, rarely doing anything else.
And besides, maybe people go to parties just to people watch?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I don't think we are all looking for the same MMO.
I disagree with the OP on many of his points of what makes his/her ideal MMO.
I'm perfectly happy with niche MMOs - my only requirement is that it entertains me, is relatively bug free, and that it is designed or scales well for whatever population it happens to have (empty barren wasteland of zones, insufficient population to execute the content provided, insufficient infrastructure for the population/overcrowded areas, etc).
I think most people have a very populist mentality - they want to be in with the "in crowd", and their choice of games needs to reflect that for whatever reason. That's all well and good if your own personal benchmark for a game is to have 1M/2M/7M/whatever number of subscribers. If that makes you happy and secure in your choice of game, that is your prerogative.
I think another common problem is that people tend to thing "I like it, therefore everyone likes it".
I don't particularly care for pure sandboxes. I get bored without at least a subtle hint of direction. Some people, especially on this site, are totally in love with the "Pure Sandbox" concept.
I don't care for PVP much. That somewhat relates to the sandbox concept, particularly at this forum, where a lot of people mentally correlate "Sandbox" with "Full world open PVP, with full looting"
That being said, I also don't like being completely hand-held. A game entirely on rails isn't much fun to me either.
I also don't care if an MMO has zones. Doesn't bother me in the least, so long as it's not excessive. WoW had zones, you just didn't see a loading screen very often - it wasn't really much different to me if I have to walk from a brown hot desert through some ridiculous winding long tunnel and on the other end the entire area is a lush green forest or red hot molten magma - really how is that different than if i just zoned over? Does the fact that the computer paused for a second to load break immersion that much more than going from total desert to total lush forest or molten hot magma with no intermediate area or transition? A wizard/druid/mage/whatever teleports you - are you not supposed to have a zoning screen for that? Is the animated zoning screen in Destiny (or many other games) really any different, than if your walking through some forced zig/zag architecture in order to buy the computer time to load the next assets anyway?
I don't wish for the perfect MMO - I'm over that for a while. I just like to hang out with friends, that's what is really the special part about MMOs - playing the game with your friends and having a persistent online community.
i respond to this claim many times by pointing out this.
1. a lot of solo players do not play MMOs for the people, they play because the amount of content and size of the worlds are huge.
2. In society there are a lot of skills and attributes some people have that allow them to contribute to the whole without actually interacting with it. Some people get a lot of satisfaction out of contributing to a world filled with people without actually interacting with others. Having said that, very few games do this well for those introverts
Well done.
I can fly higher than an aeroplane.
And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes.
Hurt - Wars
I don't know you. You could be a perfectly reasonable human. I just reject the premise of your topic that we all want the same game.
I can fly higher than an aeroplane.
And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes.
Hurt - Wars