City of Heroes/Champions Online character customization
Shadowbane style keep building
Shadowbane PVP (I like large scale PVP, not this epeen, e-sport, small-time, 2-5 person PeeVeePee)
DDO dungeons/traps/puzzles
Secret World questing/puzzles
As far as Character advancement goes, I'm conflicted. I like Star Wars Galaxies, I like Shadowbane. Hell, I like DDO. I want all 3, and more than the current generation of games. I don't want my hand held. Let me make a bad choice ffs!
Raquelis in various games Played: Everything Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6 Wants: The World Anticipating:Everquest NextCrowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
You can have the perfect MMO ever created with all the features you can think of be in that game, there will always be someone who complains about something.
It's actually common sense - you cannot make 1 game that satisfies everybody - it's impossible, and yet many many modern players just don't get it, the only people who do get it are those that understand the word niche.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Bladestrom Playing a game that is designed for multiple players, but not wanting to group with people - that's a bit like going to a party then dancing in the corner on your own isn't it, kinda missing the point of a party.
nah .. may be the "point" of the party is booze. Whatever your "point" is .. may be irrelevant to others.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Playing a game that is designed for multiple players, but not wanting to group with people - that's a bit like going to a party then dancing in the corner on your own isn't it, kinda missing the point of a party.
nah .. may be the "point" of the party is booze. Whatever your "point" is .. may be irrelevant to others.
Well that's certainly true, it's been my experience that those who refuse to interact with others at the party are also the first ones to leave.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Playing a game that is designed for multiple players, but not wanting to group with people - that's a bit like going to a party then dancing in the corner on your own isn't it, kinda missing the point of a party.
nah .. may be the "point" of the party is booze. Whatever your "point" is .. may be irrelevant to others.
Well that's certainly true, it's been my experience that those who refuse to interact with others at the party are also the first ones to leave.
That is only because a party has little solo content ... but modern MMOs do.
We all have our differences in several aspects that I consider small potato's. But were all here day after day, year after year WAITING for the same thing :
- A full size mmo.
- Slower leveling, that a community can be built.
- Harder challenging game that involves some cooperation with others now and then.
- A life inside a game world, where everything isn't crammed together every five feet.
- Open world without zoning ( this has been done many times in the past, what had changed ).
In my years of being here I consider myself an expert at the types of people that post here. We have :
1) The Power posters - The ones that have been here for years. They play every mmo that comes out. Wishing for that perfect mmo that will keep there attention. They hype the new and destroy anyone that post negative....But yet, they are on to the next 30 days later. ( I can't blame them in a way )
2) The gamers - MMOs have changed into just games with others on line. Gamer types are happy with the industry. They don't mind mmos that last only 30 days. They tend to just solo, and use the dungeon finder every so often just for fast amusement.
3) Free players - This explains it self. What better way for that 5 year old, collage kids with no money, or un employed to play a game for free than an mmo.
BUT :
For the true mmo player we ALL want the same thing.......A real mmo, but never get it !
Don't worry, its in the works. Its called Citadel of Sorcery
Originally posted by erinys @OP, its been released, its called archeage and is exactly what you describe.
Yes,
Were all aware of Archeage, it was already discussed earlier.
This is infect a good example because players flocked to this game and it's forums. But, it takes an Asian remake mmo that charged people $150 for the founders, then released with a heavy F2P Cash Shop game to give us an mmo, that's only half converted to a western game ?
That's sad, yet people are trying desperately to make it work because there starving for a REAL mmo !
Good example......Thanks for re bringing Archeage back up, Really
I totally agree with the OP about almost everything. I think there are at least two distinct groups of players that are MMO players and that's PvP and PvE, BUT, I think they both want the same game, the same world even. They just want it separated, or at least the PvE players want PvE and the PvP players want everyone to PvP.
I play Archeage and like it, but while it points in the right direction it falls far short of what I want in every area. I don't want to bash it because it is going in the right direction the same way an arrow shot upward is going toward the moon.
What we need to do is mix and match the best of what we have in a smart way, or rather two smart ways. One for PvE and one for PvP.
What's the best world? For me it's an open world kind of like Darkfall and others, but not like WoW, WAR or any of the others that lead you through canyons. I want to be able to climb every mountain. Any obstacle other than the edge of the world is the programming overlords controlling how I play.
What's the best combat? That's tricky, I would be all for Darkfall for Casting and Archery, but not for melee. I'm not sure what I want for melee, maybe an advanced AoC or Mount and Blade.
Skill system, I like AA or GW1 style personally, it breaks it into classes, but does give you the freedom to make your own class. I like EQ and DF style of increasing skill points, but I don't want DF's stat system.
I want EQ's style of questing where quests were a bitch, but you never had to do them. I don't want any of WoW, AA or so many other quest systems with glowing signposts. At least I don't want that to be a fast track to level. If it's there but I can go out and adventure and not be too much slower leveling then I don't mind other people doing what would put me to sleep.
I want exciting bosses to fight like WoW/EQ but not just at max level, and I want the fights to be complex. If you don't die your first time then the boss isn't really a boss.
I want real explorable dungeons back. Drop off the edge with no way back out, explorable, vast and unscripted. I don't want an instance that has an easy/hard mode setting designed for you by a friendly programmer. Linear is bad even if the path is winding.
I can't say that everyone wants what I want, I know there are people that want the opposite in some things.
I want real explorable dungeons back. Drop off the edge with no way back out, explorable, vast and unscripted. I don't want an instance that has an easy/hard mode setting designed for you by a friendly programmer. Linear is bad even if the path is winding.
I can't say that everyone wants what I want, I know there are people that want the opposite in some things.
Pretty much.
For example, i won't play another dungeon unless it is instanced because i don't want any other group but mine in it.
Unscripted? I would much rather have full events scripting in instances, and yes, difficulty sliders are great.
I want real explorable dungeons back. Drop off the edge with no way back out, explorable, vast and unscripted. I don't want an instance that has an easy/hard mode setting designed for you by a friendly programmer. Linear is bad even if the path is winding.
I can't say that everyone wants what I want, I know there are people that want the opposite in some things.
Pretty much.
For example, i won't play another dungeon unless it is instanced because i don't want any other group but mine in it.
Unscripted? I would much rather have full events scripting in instances, and yes, difficulty sliders are great.
A difficulty slider is just a lazy way to artificially inflate content.
Instead of a difficulty slider to experience the same exact dungeon, why not build multiple wings or levels that get progressively harder? If you've managed to finish one level, maybe unlock a secret entrance that bypasses that level or wing in the future if you so choose. But just saying "Hey, we can ramp up the mob stats if you like!" seems so lazy.
Instead of a difficulty slider to experience the same exact dungeon, why not build multiple wings or levels that get progressively harder? If you've managed to finish one level, maybe unlock a secret entrance that bypasses that level or wing in the future if you so choose. But just saying "Hey, we can ramp up the mob stats if you like!" seems so lazy.
Because some wings will not have the right challenge.
The beginning ones may be too easy. The later one will be too difficulty. Given everyone's preference of what is a challenge is different ... i prefer to be able to choose the right level.
And oh ... no one says not to have multiple wings ... just make sure there is a difficulty slider ON TOP of the multiple wings. It is not lazy if you have both .. in fact, it will be MORE work than just having multiple wings.
Instead of a difficulty slider to experience the same exact dungeon, why not build multiple wings or levels that get progressively harder? If you've managed to finish one level, maybe unlock a secret entrance that bypasses that level or wing in the future if you so choose. But just saying "Hey, we can ramp up the mob stats if you like!" seems so lazy.
Because some wings will not have the right challenge.
The beginning ones may be too easy. The later one will be too difficulty. Given everyone's preference of what is a challenge is different ... i prefer to be able to choose the right level.
And oh ... no one says not to have multiple wings ... just make sure there is a difficulty slider ON TOP of the multiple wings. It is not lazy if you have both .. in fact, it will be MORE work than just having multiple wings.
Well, the whole point of the multiple wings was to provide the same thing as a slider, only without running the exact same content. If there's a huge gap between adjacent wings, or if wings are identical in challenge, then they have failed as developers. If they wanted to include a slider on top of that, sure, just make the dungeon content difficulty/rewards overlap so folks who don't want to have to run the same exact content, only with higher mob stats, don't have to. Take away the forced grind, leave in the option for those who wish.
Well, the whole point of the multiple wings was to provide the same thing as a slider, only without running the exact same content. If there's a huge gap between adjacent wings, or if wings are identical in challenge, then they have failed as developers. If they wanted to include a slider on top of that, sure, just make the dungeon content difficulty/rewards overlap so folks who don't want to have to run the same exact content, only with higher mob stats, don't have to. Take away the forced grind, leave in the option for those who wish.
Which is inefficient because each wing only has one difficulty setting, and that is not suitable for everyone.
No one is arguing that one should run the same content again, and again. It is about tuning the game to best fit the "fun" of the players. I am all for going through content only once but I am not a fan of setting the difficulty the same for everyone.
And btw, no one forces anyone to run same content again, and again. Set your challenge, run the content. Finished, and move on.
And if the claim is that there is not enough content, the only solution is random dungeons like in D3. There is not enough resources in the whole world to create a game that can last for hundred of hours without repeating anything. But that is a separate issue than having a way to make the level of challenge fun for a large and varied audience.
I'm happy enough bouncing between MMOs these days.
SWTOR currently then maybe move back to ESO for a bit then perhaps some WoW.. usually 2-3 months per game.
Maybe it's the better way.. means I don't burn out on one game.
I think you have the right of it, myself i am 'bouncing' between FFXIV;ARR SWTOR and Eve online, i don't set myself limits and i am rarely if ever bored, i think playing just one game is a thing of the past, we have more than enough choice now, that we're often spoiled for it. I doubt any one game is going to hold players to the exclusion of other games any time soon, i know i wouldn't be, and i don't think i am that much different from most other players
Well, the whole point of the multiple wings was to provide the same thing as a slider, only without running the exact same content. If there's a huge gap between adjacent wings, or if wings are identical in challenge, then they have failed as developers. If they wanted to include a slider on top of that, sure, just make the dungeon content difficulty/rewards overlap so folks who don't want to have to run the same exact content, only with higher mob stats, don't have to. Take away the forced grind, leave in the option for those who wish.
Which is inefficient because each wing only has one difficulty setting, and that is not suitable for everyone.
No one is arguing that one should run the same content again, and again. It is about tuning the game to best fit the "fun" of the players. I am all for going through content only once but I am not a fan of setting the difficulty the same for everyone.
And btw, no one forces anyone to run same content again, and again. Set your challenge, run the content. Finished, and move on.
And if the claim is that there is not enough content, the only solution is random dungeons like in D3. There is not enough resources in the whole world to create a game that can last for hundred of hours without repeating anything. But that is a separate issue than having a way to make the level of challenge fun for a large and varied audience.
I understand the need for efficiency in game development, but I don't like the idea of placing it so high on a list when you're creating the meat and potatoes of your game's content. Well-crafted dungeons, progressive challenges that provide a good ramp for the player to climb as far as difficulty, and interesting mob AI/encounters should be placed above efficiency when creating these areas in the game, in my opinion.
I played Vanguard. There was a certain shortage of people who did the same. For example, EQ is older and still running.
I dont like skillbased computer games. I think they are awful by their construction. But a TON of people, probably the vast majority, keeps demanding them.
So yeah, I dont think I actually want the same MMO as everybody else.
Comments
I'm greedy!
Give me:
City of Heroes/Champions Online character customization
Shadowbane style keep building
Shadowbane PVP (I like large scale PVP, not this epeen, e-sport, small-time, 2-5 person PeeVeePee)
DDO dungeons/traps/puzzles
Secret World questing/puzzles
As far as Character advancement goes, I'm conflicted. I like Star Wars Galaxies, I like Shadowbane. Hell, I like DDO. I want all 3, and more than the current generation of games. I don't want my hand held. Let me make a bad choice ffs!
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
You can have the perfect MMO ever created with all the features you can think of be in that game, there will always be someone who complains about something.
That is a MMO gamer in a nutshell.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
nah .. may be the "point" of the party is booze. Whatever your "point" is .. may be irrelevant to others.
Well that's certainly true, it's been my experience that those who refuse to interact with others at the party are also the first ones to leave.
That is only because a party has little solo content ... but modern MMOs do.
Don't worry, its in the works. Its called Citadel of Sorcery
http://www.citadelofsorcery.com/
Played: UO, LotR, WoW, SWG, DDO, AoC, EVE, Warhammer, TF2, EQ2, SWTOR, TSW, CSS, KF, L4D, AoW, WoT
Playing: The Secret World until Citadel of Sorcery goes into Alpha testing.
Tired of: Linear quest games, dailies, and dumbed down games
Anticipating:Citadel of Sorcery
Yes,
Were all aware of Archeage, it was already discussed earlier.
This is infect a good example because players flocked to this game and it's forums. But, it takes an Asian remake mmo that charged people $150 for the founders, then released with a heavy F2P Cash Shop game to give us an mmo, that's only half converted to a western game ?
That's sad, yet people are trying desperately to make it work because there starving for a REAL mmo !
Good example......Thanks for re bringing Archeage back up, Really
I totally agree with the OP about almost everything. I think there are at least two distinct groups of players that are MMO players and that's PvP and PvE, BUT, I think they both want the same game, the same world even. They just want it separated, or at least the PvE players want PvE and the PvP players want everyone to PvP.
I play Archeage and like it, but while it points in the right direction it falls far short of what I want in every area. I don't want to bash it because it is going in the right direction the same way an arrow shot upward is going toward the moon.
What we need to do is mix and match the best of what we have in a smart way, or rather two smart ways. One for PvE and one for PvP.
What's the best world? For me it's an open world kind of like Darkfall and others, but not like WoW, WAR or any of the others that lead you through canyons. I want to be able to climb every mountain. Any obstacle other than the edge of the world is the programming overlords controlling how I play.
What's the best combat? That's tricky, I would be all for Darkfall for Casting and Archery, but not for melee. I'm not sure what I want for melee, maybe an advanced AoC or Mount and Blade.
Skill system, I like AA or GW1 style personally, it breaks it into classes, but does give you the freedom to make your own class. I like EQ and DF style of increasing skill points, but I don't want DF's stat system.
I want EQ's style of questing where quests were a bitch, but you never had to do them. I don't want any of WoW, AA or so many other quest systems with glowing signposts. At least I don't want that to be a fast track to level. If it's there but I can go out and adventure and not be too much slower leveling then I don't mind other people doing what would put me to sleep.
I want exciting bosses to fight like WoW/EQ but not just at max level, and I want the fights to be complex. If you don't die your first time then the boss isn't really a boss.
I want real explorable dungeons back. Drop off the edge with no way back out, explorable, vast and unscripted. I don't want an instance that has an easy/hard mode setting designed for you by a friendly programmer. Linear is bad even if the path is winding.
I can't say that everyone wants what I want, I know there are people that want the opposite in some things.
Asdar
Pretty much.
For example, i won't play another dungeon unless it is instanced because i don't want any other group but mine in it.
Unscripted? I would much rather have full events scripting in instances, and yes, difficulty sliders are great.
A difficulty slider is just a lazy way to artificially inflate content.
Instead of a difficulty slider to experience the same exact dungeon, why not build multiple wings or levels that get progressively harder? If you've managed to finish one level, maybe unlock a secret entrance that bypasses that level or wing in the future if you so choose. But just saying "Hey, we can ramp up the mob stats if you like!" seems so lazy.
Because some wings will not have the right challenge.
The beginning ones may be too easy. The later one will be too difficulty. Given everyone's preference of what is a challenge is different ... i prefer to be able to choose the right level.
And oh ... no one says not to have multiple wings ... just make sure there is a difficulty slider ON TOP of the multiple wings. It is not lazy if you have both .. in fact, it will be MORE work than just having multiple wings.
Well, the whole point of the multiple wings was to provide the same thing as a slider, only without running the exact same content. If there's a huge gap between adjacent wings, or if wings are identical in challenge, then they have failed as developers. If they wanted to include a slider on top of that, sure, just make the dungeon content difficulty/rewards overlap so folks who don't want to have to run the same exact content, only with higher mob stats, don't have to. Take away the forced grind, leave in the option for those who wish.
Which is inefficient because each wing only has one difficulty setting, and that is not suitable for everyone.
No one is arguing that one should run the same content again, and again. It is about tuning the game to best fit the "fun" of the players. I am all for going through content only once but I am not a fan of setting the difficulty the same for everyone.
And btw, no one forces anyone to run same content again, and again. Set your challenge, run the content. Finished, and move on.
And if the claim is that there is not enough content, the only solution is random dungeons like in D3. There is not enough resources in the whole world to create a game that can last for hundred of hours without repeating anything. But that is a separate issue than having a way to make the level of challenge fun for a large and varied audience.
I'm happy enough bouncing between MMOs these days.
SWTOR currently then maybe move back to ESO for a bit then perhaps some WoW.. usually 2-3 months per game.
Maybe it's the better way.. means I don't burn out on one game.
I think you have the right of it, myself i am 'bouncing' between FFXIV;ARR SWTOR and Eve online, i don't set myself limits and i am rarely if ever bored, i think playing just one game is a thing of the past, we have more than enough choice now, that we're often spoiled for it. I doubt any one game is going to hold players to the exclusion of other games any time soon, i know i wouldn't be, and i don't think i am that much different from most other players
I understand the need for efficiency in game development, but I don't like the idea of placing it so high on a list when you're creating the meat and potatoes of your game's content. Well-crafted dungeons, progressive challenges that provide a good ramp for the player to climb as far as difficulty, and interesting mob AI/encounters should be placed above efficiency when creating these areas in the game, in my opinion.
The meaning of life inside a game world? such as Archeage? no thanks, tbh i don't have time for it. Got another life to take care of.
But if you mean a life inside a game wold, like TESO, GW2 then I agree.
Define life inside a game world.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
*shrug*
I played Vanguard. There was a certain shortage of people who did the same. For example, EQ is older and still running.
I dont like skillbased computer games. I think they are awful by their construction. But a TON of people, probably the vast majority, keeps demanding them.
So yeah, I dont think I actually want the same MMO as everybody else.