Destiny has "it" - and you can't define or review "it" because "it" is personal. "It" is a feeling. "It" hooks a gamer for a long while and makes the otherwise mediocre truly enjoyable and excellent.
Also, McDonalds can be delicious.
Additionally, Transformers 1 and 3 are quite entertaining, 2 is a big miss and I haven't seen 4 yet.
Finally, popularity is not a measure of quality, yet it cannot be ignored either - as something popular is obviously doing something right to attract a larger swath of the populace.
I saw 4 and I'm sad that I spent the money at RedBox for it.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
"Prove and prove" ... people forcing themselves online to do dailies / weeklies is proving nothing, they just want the shit and get away.
The game itself is an 8hr pipe run from start to finish, with few "battlegrounds" worth shit and couple of dailies / weeklies, without those few factors, this game would be as dead as shadowbane.
I dunno what all the hype is over Destiny. Its great as a pvp game, dominated by controller style players, and the story is a load of crap.
A PVP game is successful, if its done right. Destiny id it right so far but when compared to Halo.. is it a better game? Hell no. Bungie needs to keep their arse out of MMOs and get back to what they are good at, bad ass stories with good action.
marketting be damned, WoW spent a countries GDP in advertising for Wrath and omfg if they didnt hit 12million subs, Mad as hell Ad campaigns sell serious lipservice, however when you look at the population graphs youll notice even WoW barely managed to hold on to half of those Victims of the mass advertising.
I get so tired of this. Sales =/= quality. ESPECIALLY in an mmo. Diablo 3 sold like HOTCAKES and was wildly considered, including BY ITS OWN CREATOR to be a hulking piece of crap. So much so that they basically redesigned the entire base operation of the game with the RoS expansion.
Destiny is another example.
The only success that destiny is an example of is marketing success.
If in 2 months its still selling like hotcakes then i'll happily eat crow.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
I get so tired of this. Sales =/= quality. ESPECIALLY in an mmo. Diablo 3 sold like HOTCAKES and was wildly considered, including BY ITS OWN CREATOR to be a hulking piece of crap. So much so that they basically redesigned the entire base operation of the game with the RoS expansion.
Destiny is another example.
The only success that destiny is an example of is marketing success.
If in 2 months its still selling like hotcakes then i'll happily eat crow.
Sales does not necessarily equal quality, but it equals popularity. Similarly, Marketing $$$ =/= Sales. Marketing can definitely influence people, but it's more about creating awareness. The number of people who don't seek out more definitive information online these days probably aren't part of Destiny's target market anyway, because you need an Internet connection to play it.
I will agree with you on the 2-month thing. Actually, the BEST possible thing that they could do is give away their first DLC for free. Their whole model is based around selling people quarterly content updates. A free update MIGHT bring some people back. If they can successfully address some of the short comings of the game with that DLC then they might be able to reacquire some of those lost users. Either way, though, I wouldn't be surprised to see people still kicking around for a year or more.
Honestly, I sometimes wonder if anyone who complains about the game has ever even played an FPS. Like if you wanna talk about grind, Jeee-sus!!, try some COD or BF. Oh, and they reset your progress each month, so you keep coming back to feed at the trough.
I get so tired of this. Sales =/= quality. ESPECIALLY in an mmo. Diablo 3 sold like HOTCAKES and was wildly considered, including BY ITS OWN CREATOR to be a hulking piece of crap. So much so that they basically redesigned the entire base operation of the game with the RoS expansion.
Destiny is another example.
The only success that destiny is an example of is marketing success.
If in 2 months its still selling like hotcakes then i'll happily eat crow.
You're saying sales aren't a measure of quality, but then using future sales as a measure of quality.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Disclaimer - I don't own this game and haven't tried playing it. Not because, I have anything against it but because I've simply been far too busy with other things to think about trying out any other new games. Indeed it sounds interesting and if/when I have more time I'd even consider giving it a try. When I speak here, I'm speaking genericaly.
Popularity does not equate with quality. If it did, McDonalds would have a 5 star rating and "Dogs Playing Poker" would earn a place in art history above the Cistine Chapel. What it means is that there is something there that interests a large number of people to spend some money on it and that it has an effective way of pitching itself to people. Relatively mediocre things can, indeed, be quite popular..... because most peoples bottom line for spending money or time on something isn't "good", it's just "good enough".... so when something (anything) is popular it doesn't follow that one should have high confidence that it will be a great or even good experience.... it means that there should be high confidence that it isn't going to be a god awfull experience (unless your individual tastes run radicaly different from the "average" person, in which case it may indeed be a god awfull experience fo you).
I get so tired of this. Sales =/= quality. ESPECIALLY in an mmo. Diablo 3 sold like HOTCAKES and was wildly considered, including BY ITS OWN CREATOR to be a hulking piece of crap. So much so that they basically redesigned the entire base operation of the game with the RoS expansion.
Destiny is another example.
The only success that destiny is an example of is marketing success.
If in 2 months its still selling like hotcakes then i'll happily eat crow.
You're saying sales aren't a measure of quality, but then using future sales as a measure of quality.
No, no i'm not. Im using continued sales as evidence that the game would be growing and continuing to gain players. Which tends to be a more accurate indicator of quality. The sales in and of themselves are unimportant. Its the trends that they show that are important.
Example. Pet Rocks. Came out, and if we use the accepted method by MMORPG.com forum goers, then pet rocks are the bestest thing ever. Too bad it lasted 6 months until people realized how stupid it was and now, nobody buys pet rocks anymore.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
Originally posted by Maldach Diablo 3 sold well and is trash. McDonald's sells burgers left and right and they are trash. Sales do not equal quality.
In what world are the sales of a product not indicative of that product's quality relative to other products on the market?
The best and most accurate way to evaluate I feel Destiny's success/failure ratio is the degree to which DLC's are received and how players react to those DLC's. We hear the same arguments with John Smedley when it comes to EQ2 and how games are "consumed" at a faster rate than ever.
Bungie has 2 upcoming DLC's which, better or worse, does drive players back to participate in the game. There's still a consensus that even though Bungie is the game developer, Activision did heavily chop up the game into as many DLC's in favor of "forecasted" profits over quality.
Now here's really the point I'm trying to say. The game is good and has good polish. It's week area is content; it has a lot to do but not enough to keep the gaming flowing for as long as the developers believed it could flourish. They still have an exit route which is abandon their so-called "10 year plan" and release content that is more heavy and abundant that grasps players attention and keeps them occupied for longer periods of time.
"IF" Bungie can do this right around their 2nd DLC this January then they'll be in the safe zone. Anyone who was seriously interested in Destiny will be satisfied. Anyone who wasn't interested in the game or who played it and didn't find it interesting won't be relevant as they probably wouldn't have brought the DLC anyways.
We can forecast the "if's" and "why's" of whether Destiny has proved itself or not but it's really going to come down to the DLC's and what they do from now until their release. Some games find 2nd chances more profitable and work to their advantages, SE's FF14 is one. But anything else until then is still speculation and guessing.
Originally posted by Sojiro84 Doesnt mean the game is good. I got the game as well but only played 4 hours and got to level 4 before I stopped torturing myself.
The game is a ok shooter. The gameplay isnt anything special, the story is lackluster and the graphics arent next-gen but cross-gen.
I regret buying the digital version, since I cant return it or sell it to someone who can enjoy this game.
Just out of curiosity, what's your favourite shooter? I play quite a few shooters and the game mechanics, combat and gunplay is actually some of the best I've seen. So if you're finding it lacklustre, I'd really like to know what you're playing, cuz maybe I'll pick it up. I know "like" is totally subjective, but just interested.
Game sells just after launch have nothing to do with how good a game is. The sells of a game just after launch are achieved simply through hype. A game can be one of the best games in the world, but because they don't advertise it, the sells after launch are horrible. The same is true the other way around. A game that is advertised to death will have amazing sells at launch but could be the worst game in the world. As such your argument is meaningless.
I'm not sure that number of units sold equates to a bad review being wrong. It's not the first time, nor will it be the last, that people buy something that's bad, or even just mediocre.
You can't just write off those reviews based on sales numbers. It could just be that Bungie did a bang up job at marketing a poor game and it sold well. Doesn't make the game any better does it?
Makes me think of Diablo 3 which had some big sales numbers at launch and then turned out to be disappointing for a lot of those purchasers fairly soon after.
Originally posted by rick11772 Game sells just after launch have nothing to do with how good a game is. The sells of a game just after launch are achieved simply through hype. A game can be one of the best games in the world, but because they don't advertise it, the sells after launch are horrible. The same is true the other way around. A game that is advertised to death will have amazing sells at launch but could be the worst game in the world. As such your argument is meaningless.
True. In the case of Destiny we know
the game "sold well at launch"; $325M through sales in 5 days. So 5M copies @ $60. 3M @ $100. (We are not sure if the number included advance DLC sales.)
the game had sold c. 8.4M by the end of the first month based on the numbers Bungie released (see forum thread)
the game has now sold 9.5M
And the 1M+ sales already in the second month suggests that something else is kicking in.
Were e.g. mmorpg.com fell down, imo, was not in the review score being wrong but in the review score being inconsistent with how they reviewed - and scored - other games. WS; TESO; South Pak and so on.
Originally posted by rick11772 Game sells just after launch have nothing to do with how good a game is. The sells of a game just after launch are achieved simply through hype. A game can be one of the best games in the world, but because they don't advertise it, the sells after launch are horrible. The same is true the other way around. A game that is advertised to death will have amazing sells at launch but could be the worst game in the world. As such your argument is meaningless.
True. In the case of Destiny we know
the game "sold well at launch"; $325M through sales in 5 days. So 5M copies @ $60. 3M @ $100. (We are not sure if the number included advance DLC sales.)
the game had sold c. 8.4M by the end of the first month based on the numbers Bungie released (see forum thread)
the game has now sold 9.5M
And the 1M+ sales already in the second month suggests that something else is kicking in.
Were e.g. mmorpg.com fell down, imo, was not in the review score being wrong but in the review score being inconsistent with how they reviewed - and scored - other games. WS; TESO; South Pak and so on.
Actually, I think that where they, and most, fell down in their review is Value and Innovation. Oh! And, not MMORPG, but some, seem to think that the core mechanics of the game are not as good as others. Being that I'm playing both Destiny and COD:AW right now, Destiny is waaaaay better in that regard. There have been a multitude of times in AW where I'm like, WTF? What just happened.
As far as Value goes, MMORPG complained about a requirement of PSN to play with others. I'm sure there was some backroom deals done to make this happen, but this is nothing new. This was something that SONY said would be a focus of theirs with next gen consoles. How about the fact that they allowed you to upgrade to the PS4 version from the PS3 version and still leave the PS3 version active? Yeah, that's a pretty good value. I wish more games would do it *stares at GTA V* Next thing is the whole content debacle. Yeah, you have to pay for content. Yeah, that does kinda suck. That should hurt the value, especially when the core story told in the campaign was.......lacking.
As far as innovation goes, to say this has been done to death is ridiculous. While not ground-breaking, to ignore what Destiny is trying to do or trying to be is disappointing and it shows that most reviewers don't "get it".
If you really want to fault Destiny for something, story is a big one so far, so they better improve on that. However, the MMORPG score of 7 isn't as far off base as some out there who just completely missed the bus.
One of the best games I've played in 2014. The only thing that I didn't like about this game is the story. Other than that I love it. Especially the raid content.
Comments
I saw 4 and I'm sad that I spent the money at RedBox for it.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
"Prove and prove" ... people forcing themselves online to do dailies / weeklies is proving nothing, they just want the shit and get away.
The game itself is an 8hr pipe run from start to finish, with few "battlegrounds" worth shit and couple of dailies / weeklies, without those few factors, this game would be as dead as shadowbane.
I dunno what all the hype is over Destiny. Its great as a pvp game, dominated by controller style players, and the story is a load of crap.
A PVP game is successful, if its done right. Destiny id it right so far but when compared to Halo.. is it a better game? Hell no. Bungie needs to keep their arse out of MMOs and get back to what they are good at, bad ass stories with good action.
marketting be damned, WoW spent a countries GDP in advertising for Wrath and omfg if they didnt hit 12million subs, Mad as hell Ad campaigns sell serious lipservice, however when you look at the population graphs youll notice even WoW barely managed to hold on to half of those Victims of the mass advertising.
Played: UO, LotR, WoW, SWG, DDO, AoC, EVE, Warhammer, TF2, EQ2, SWTOR, TSW, CSS, KF, L4D, AoW, WoT
Playing: The Secret World until Citadel of Sorcery goes into Alpha testing.
Tired of: Linear quest games, dailies, and dumbed down games
Anticipating:Citadel of Sorcery
I get so tired of this. Sales =/= quality. ESPECIALLY in an mmo. Diablo 3 sold like HOTCAKES and was wildly considered, including BY ITS OWN CREATOR to be a hulking piece of crap. So much so that they basically redesigned the entire base operation of the game with the RoS expansion.
Destiny is another example.
The only success that destiny is an example of is marketing success.
If in 2 months its still selling like hotcakes then i'll happily eat crow.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
Sales does not necessarily equal quality, but it equals popularity. Similarly, Marketing $$$ =/= Sales. Marketing can definitely influence people, but it's more about creating awareness. The number of people who don't seek out more definitive information online these days probably aren't part of Destiny's target market anyway, because you need an Internet connection to play it.
I will agree with you on the 2-month thing. Actually, the BEST possible thing that they could do is give away their first DLC for free. Their whole model is based around selling people quarterly content updates. A free update MIGHT bring some people back. If they can successfully address some of the short comings of the game with that DLC then they might be able to reacquire some of those lost users. Either way, though, I wouldn't be surprised to see people still kicking around for a year or more.
Honestly, I sometimes wonder if anyone who complains about the game has ever even played an FPS. Like if you wanna talk about grind, Jeee-sus!!, try some COD or BF. Oh, and they reset your progress each month, so you keep coming back to feed at the trough.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
If I followed reviews I'd be playing WoW.
Not that WoW is a terrible game, I just happen to think it's something more reserved for a younger, more easily entertained audience.
You're saying sales aren't a measure of quality, but then using future sales as a measure of quality.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Disclaimer - I don't own this game and haven't tried playing it. Not because, I have anything against it but because I've simply been far too busy with other things to think about trying out any other new games. Indeed it sounds interesting and if/when I have more time I'd even consider giving it a try. When I speak here, I'm speaking genericaly.
Popularity does not equate with quality. If it did, McDonalds would have a 5 star rating and "Dogs Playing Poker" would earn a place in art history above the Cistine Chapel. What it means is that there is something there that interests a large number of people to spend some money on it and that it has an effective way of pitching itself to people. Relatively mediocre things can, indeed, be quite popular..... because most peoples bottom line for spending money or time on something isn't "good", it's just "good enough".... so when something (anything) is popular it doesn't follow that one should have high confidence that it will be a great or even good experience.... it means that there should be high confidence that it isn't going to be a god awfull experience (unless your individual tastes run radicaly different from the "average" person, in which case it may indeed be a god awfull experience fo you).
No, no i'm not. Im using continued sales as evidence that the game would be growing and continuing to gain players. Which tends to be a more accurate indicator of quality. The sales in and of themselves are unimportant. Its the trends that they show that are important.
Example. Pet Rocks. Came out, and if we use the accepted method by MMORPG.com forum goers, then pet rocks are the bestest thing ever. Too bad it lasted 6 months until people realized how stupid it was and now, nobody buys pet rocks anymore.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
The best and most accurate way to evaluate I feel Destiny's success/failure ratio is the degree to which DLC's are received and how players react to those DLC's. We hear the same arguments with John Smedley when it comes to EQ2 and how games are "consumed" at a faster rate than ever.
Bungie has 2 upcoming DLC's which, better or worse, does drive players back to participate in the game. There's still a consensus that even though Bungie is the game developer, Activision did heavily chop up the game into as many DLC's in favor of "forecasted" profits over quality.
Now here's really the point I'm trying to say. The game is good and has good polish. It's week area is content; it has a lot to do but not enough to keep the gaming flowing for as long as the developers believed it could flourish. They still have an exit route which is abandon their so-called "10 year plan" and release content that is more heavy and abundant that grasps players attention and keeps them occupied for longer periods of time.
"IF" Bungie can do this right around their 2nd DLC this January then they'll be in the safe zone. Anyone who was seriously interested in Destiny will be satisfied. Anyone who wasn't interested in the game or who played it and didn't find it interesting won't be relevant as they probably wouldn't have brought the DLC anyways.
We can forecast the "if's" and "why's" of whether Destiny has proved itself or not but it's really going to come down to the DLC's and what they do from now until their release. Some games find 2nd chances more profitable and work to their advantages, SE's FF14 is one. But anything else until then is still speculation and guessing.
OP's logic comes down to good marketing (high sales at launch) makes a good game.
OP is confusing some things I think.
Just out of curiosity, what's your favourite shooter? I play quite a few shooters and the game mechanics, combat and gunplay is actually some of the best I've seen. So if you're finding it lacklustre, I'd really like to know what you're playing, cuz maybe I'll pick it up. I know "like" is totally subjective, but just interested.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Makes me think of Diablo 3 which had some big sales numbers at launch and then turned out to be disappointing for a lot of those purchasers fairly soon after.
True. In the case of Destiny we know
Actually, I think that where they, and most, fell down in their review is Value and Innovation. Oh! And, not MMORPG, but some, seem to think that the core mechanics of the game are not as good as others. Being that I'm playing both Destiny and COD:AW right now, Destiny is waaaaay better in that regard. There have been a multitude of times in AW where I'm like, WTF? What just happened.
As far as Value goes, MMORPG complained about a requirement of PSN to play with others. I'm sure there was some backroom deals done to make this happen, but this is nothing new. This was something that SONY said would be a focus of theirs with next gen consoles. How about the fact that they allowed you to upgrade to the PS4 version from the PS3 version and still leave the PS3 version active? Yeah, that's a pretty good value. I wish more games would do it *stares at GTA V* Next thing is the whole content debacle. Yeah, you have to pay for content. Yeah, that does kinda suck. That should hurt the value, especially when the core story told in the campaign was.......lacking.
As far as innovation goes, to say this has been done to death is ridiculous. While not ground-breaking, to ignore what Destiny is trying to do or trying to be is disappointing and it shows that most reviewers don't "get it".
If you really want to fault Destiny for something, story is a big one so far, so they better improve on that. However, the MMORPG score of 7 isn't as far off base as some out there who just completely missed the bus.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Not sure how a reviewer giving his/her unbiased opinion on a game can be validated or invalidated by them "getting it" or not.
Comedian makes vague, esoteric cultural references, gets booed off-stage as a result. It's the crowd's fault he wasn't liked?
I played the beta thank goodness and did not buy the game.
I wanted to buy a ps4 for destiny,i will buy a ps4 for bloodborne and I don't even have to play a bloodborne beta it will be good!
DESTINY is boring as hell and I am a huge halo fan.
One of the best games I've played in 2014. The only thing that I didn't like about this game is the story. Other than that I love it. Especially the raid content.