If you read OP on ESO forums "There are a bunch of questions with this number - the largest of which is "does this include box sales as well?". But ignore that, cause we're all speculating anyways", and comes up with 1.2 million subscribers.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
I remember when some Chinese marketing website had listed GW2 as having some ridiculously high number of log-ins per day and the GW2 fans took it as gospel and defended it tooth and nail........That is, until it was disproven and taken offline.
Why do we continue to post unverified information based on limited and very selective data by people with no real access to to the actual facts? Then defend it as if it was the given truth?
1. Superdata is hardly "some Chinese marketing website"
2. Do you even know who they are and where they get their data or are you basing your skepticism off some reddit comment Here, this should at least give you an idea about who they are and what companies they work with: http://www.superdataresearch.com/about/
3. I don't see anyone "defending it as if it was the given truth" - it is a statistical projection and as such, just guesswork... mind you, it's guesswork the industry is willing to pay for - not the summary you or I can see but the real in-depth reports that are bought by Microsoft, Activision and others. But I do see a lot of people attacking it as if it couldn't be right based on their "feelings"...lol
Who to believe? A company that specializes in this type of analysis, the usual forum suspects or the guy with a bone to pick because he didn't get Skyrim Online?
So where is this Superdata that shows 1.2 Mil? Oh wait....They didn't. Even the OP admitted it was forum math?
Keep spinning your BS.......and attach Ad-homs to it for added effect. It always works well.
PS. Questioning unverifiable data has little to do with "Skyrim Online" which is also something you assumed I wanted since I love Skyrim......Even though I don't really think an online MMO version would work well, but you probably already knew that about me right?
Lol... I wasn't thinking of you when I mentioned Skyrim Online that was the other guy who doesn't like science. You are just one of the usual forum suspects.
And where did I say anything about 1.2 million? That's just your strawman.
My response to you was on the point that you are so desperate to be negative about ESO that you're attacking about the only statistical analysis company that the industry seems to trust... Chinese website indeed.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
People are arguing whether the numbers are fake, guesses, real, imaginary,etc.
For a second I would like to go with the thought that they are close to actual numbers. I have no idea, but just for arguments sake. If this is the case, then my main question would be 'How much is profit?' A company can have 3 gazillion in revenue and have 1.50 in profit. Doesn't spell good news.
Without putting the profit into the equation, the actual revenue doesn't really paint a good picture of health for the product.
Actually, profits don't even paint a picture of the success of a product. Think about loss leaders like consoles. Playstation is, probably, Sony's most profitable business unit at the moment and their console itself loses money for every unit that flies off the shelf.
So what are ESOs intentions? Well, we do know that they're selling us a box. However, that could just be for initial return on investment. We know they have subscribers, but that could simply be to establish a user base and determine what that's going to look like. Maybe their intention is to go F2P w/ sub. It has been profitable for SWTOR.
So if this initial release is merely a means of gaining a "die hard" user base, even if they are showing a loss, it may still be tracking to plan. So the only real measure is people using the product at the momeny.
I remember when some Chinese marketing website had listed GW2 as having some ridiculously high number of log-ins per day and the GW2 fans took it as gospel and defended it tooth and nail........That is, until it was disproven and taken offline.
Why do we continue to post unverified information based on limited and very selective data by people with no real access to to the actual facts? Then defend it as if it was the given truth?
1. Superdata is hardly "some Chinese marketing website"
2. Do you even know who they are and where they get their data or are you basing your skepticism off some reddit comment Here, this should at least give you an idea about who they are and what companies they work with: http://www.superdataresearch.com/about/
3. I don't see anyone "defending it as if it was the given truth" - it is a statistical projection and as such, just guesswork... mind you, it's guesswork the industry is willing to pay for - not the summary you or I can see but the real in-depth reports that are bought by Microsoft, Activision and others. But I do see a lot of people attacking it as if it couldn't be right based on their "feelings"...lol
Who to believe? A company that specializes in this type of analysis, the usual forum suspects or the guy with a bone to pick because he didn't get Skyrim Online?
So where is this Superdata that shows 1.2 Mil? Oh wait....They didn't. Even the OP admitted it was forum math?
Keep spinning your BS.......and attach Ad-homs to it for added effect. It always works well.
PS. Questioning unverifiable data has little to do with "Skyrim Online" which is also something you assumed I wanted since I love Skyrim......Even though I don't really think an online MMO version would work well, but you probably already knew that about me right?
Lol... I wasn't thinking of you when I mentioned Skyrim Online that was the other guy who doesn't like science. You are just one of the usual forum suspects.
And where did I say anything about 1.2 million? That's just your strawman.
My response to you was on the point that you are so desperate to be negative about ESO that you're attacking about the only statistical analysis company that the industry seems to trust... Chinese website indeed.
Again, an assumption you made up. (I've noticed I have to type that in almost every response to your posts....Why is that?) Your accusations are unfounded. My feelings towards ESO have NOTHING to do with questioning unverifiable facts posted by fans. The 2 are entirely separate. Do you even realize that I've been personally discussing purchasing ESO with a friend of mine since I have recognized that much work has been done since the game's launch? No, you didn't know that because you don't know me from shit yet you still feel justified in commenting on me and my personal feelings and your assumptions about them.
This is about fact finding, not personal feelings.
Well world of warcraft, maplestory and lineage 1 I guess are the only mmo games in that top 10 list.. the others are all single match type games and not mmos...
I wish someone would do a proper MMO version of that.
Seriously. All this worthless list does is prove the person who created it has no idea WTF a MMO is. I mean how long until anything with "online" at the end of the game name is a MMO?
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
ESO is sitting at #11 revenue earned, with 111 million.
“Also, its new title Hearthstone managed to come in at No. 10,” said van Druenen. “That is ahead of titles like Elder Scrolls Online ($111M) and Star Wars: The Old Republic ($106M).”
Let me get this straight. ESO is a full sub game while SWTOR is a F2P plus sub and it is only 5 million behind and to boot about 3 years older well 3 years this December. These are figures to be proud of I suppose.
Where is ZM's official announcement showing ESO closing in on the top 10?
You, me, and most everyone else here know we will not see anything official from ZOS. Until then these 3rd party guesstimated statistics are only good for wiping one's arse with. Still, even if it was true I have a feeling their development cost them more than $111 million. So for ZOS's sake, I hope those numbers are a lot higher than what the OP is claiming.
If I gave you 2$ and you gave me back 1$ every 6 months for 2 years, I would consider you a cash cow.
Fair enough. If however you gave me $2 and I was only able to pay you back $1.75, I would consider you gullible and would assume you would invest your money elsewhere next time.
The OP is no better than a marketing exec. and just as trustworthy.
The list isn't about subs, it's entirely microtransactions, and has nothing to do with subs and box sales.
They did not state that ESO is number 11, only that hearthstone came in ahead of games like ESO and ToR.
Again, this was an article about IN GAME SPENDING, not subscriptions or box sales.
ROFl, if that were the case ESO wouldn't be on the list at all..
Maybe you should actually read the article.
Exactly, ESO is a sub based game that does not have an in game cash shop exactly like a real mmo should be. You can always tell how good a game is doing by how often it gets content. WoW is still king but Elder Scrolls Online and Final Fantasy XIV are the new standards in the mmo genre.
The OP is no better than a marketing exec. and just as trustworthy.
The list isn't about subs, it's entirely microtransactions, and has nothing to do with subs and box sales.
They did not state that ESO is number 11, only that hearthstone came in ahead of games like ESO and ToR.
Again, this was an article about IN GAME SPENDING, not subscriptions or box sales.
ROFl, if that were the case ESO wouldn't be on the list at all..
Maybe you should actually read the article.
Exactly, ESO is a sub based game that does not have an in game cash shop exactly like a real mmo should be. You can always tell how good a game is doing by how often it gets content. WoW is still king but Elder Scrolls Online and Final Fantasy XIV are the new standards in the mmo genre.
Sorry to burst your bubble but F2P and B2P MMOS also get regular content updates and some even more than ESO and FFXIV.
And i had no idea that a real or fake MMO had anything to do with what payment model it follows. I swear sometimes you people say the darnest things.
The OP is no better than a marketing exec. and just as trustworthy.
The list isn't about subs, it's entirely microtransactions, and has nothing to do with subs and box sales.
They did not state that ESO is number 11, only that hearthstone came in ahead of games like ESO and ToR.
Again, this was an article about IN GAME SPENDING, not subscriptions or box sales.
ROFl, if that were the case ESO wouldn't be on the list at all..
Maybe you should actually read the article.
Exactly, ESO is a sub based game that does not have an in game cash shop exactly like a real mmo should be. You can always tell how good a game is doing by how often it gets content. WoW is still king but Elder Scrolls Online and Final Fantasy XIV are the new standards in the mmo genre.
Sorry to burst your bubble but F2P and B2P MMOS also get regular content updates and some even more than ESO and FFXIV.
And i had no idea that a real or fake MMO had anything to do with what payment model it follows. I swear sometimes you people say the darnest things.
Show me anywhere where I said free to play games do not get content? I swear sometimes you people need to learn to read and comprehend.
The OP is no better than a marketing exec. and just as trustworthy.
The list isn't about subs, it's entirely microtransactions, and has nothing to do with subs and box sales.
They did not state that ESO is number 11, only that hearthstone came in ahead of games like ESO and ToR.
Again, this was an article about IN GAME SPENDING, not subscriptions or box sales.
ROFl, if that were the case ESO wouldn't be on the list at all..
Maybe you should actually read the article.
Exactly, ESO is a sub based game that does not have an in game cash shop exactly like a real mmo should be. You can always tell how good a game is doing by how often it gets content. WoW is still king but Elder Scrolls Online and Final Fantasy XIV are the new standards in the mmo genre.
Sorry to burst your bubble but F2P and B2P MMOS also get regular content updates and some even more than ESO and FFXIV.
And i had no idea that a real or fake MMO had anything to do with what payment model it follows. I swear sometimes you people say the darnest things.
Show me anywhere where I said free to play games do not get content? I swear sometimes you people need to learn to read and comprehend.
Considering you had to specifically mention that ESO is 'sub based' game and how it is the 'real' MMO... did i completely mis read where you were going with this?
The OP is no better than a marketing exec. and just as trustworthy.
The list isn't about subs, it's entirely microtransactions, and has nothing to do with subs and box sales.
They did not state that ESO is number 11, only that hearthstone came in ahead of games like ESO and ToR.
Again, this was an article about IN GAME SPENDING, not subscriptions or box sales.
ROFl, if that were the case ESO wouldn't be on the list at all..
Maybe you should actually read the article.
Exactly, ESO is a sub based game that does not have an in game cash shop exactly like a real mmo should be. You can always tell how good a game is doing by how often it gets content. WoW is still king but Elder Scrolls Online and Final Fantasy XIV are the new standards in the mmo genre.
Sorry to burst your bubble but F2P and B2P MMOS also get regular content updates and some even more than ESO and FFXIV.
And i had no idea that a real or fake MMO had anything to do with what payment model it follows. I swear sometimes you people say the darnest things.
Show me anywhere where I said free to play games do not get content? I swear sometimes you people need to learn to read and comprehend.
Considering you had to specifically mention that ESO is 'sub based' game and how it is the 'real' MMO... did i completely mis read where you were going with this?
Yes, you did. I said you can tell how good a game is doing by how often it gets content and I mean FTP, BTP and PTP. ESO and Final Fantasy XIV are both successful pay to play games that do not have in game cash shops and I believe that is the best model period. There is no pay to win, no advantage to certain players and everybody has the same equal opportunity to actually earn things in game. This is just my opinon and I aint changing it for nobody.
Yes, you did. I said you can tell how good a game is doing by how often it gets content and I mean FTP, BTP and PTP. ESO and Final Fantasy XIV are both successful pay to play games that do not have in game cash shops and I believe that is the best model period. There is no pay to win, no advantage to certain players and everybody has the same equal opportunity to actually earn things in game. This is just my opinon and I aint changing it for nobody.
No need to get all defensive. I didn't ask you to change your opinion. Even though i find your whole 'P2P are the only real MMO' comment complete absurd it is your opinion.
Yes, you did. I said you can tell how good a game is doing by how often it gets content and I mean FTP, BTP and PTP. ESO and Final Fantasy XIV are both successful pay to play games that do not have in game cash shops and I believe that is the best model period. There is no pay to win, no advantage to certain players and everybody has the same equal opportunity to actually earn things in game. This is just my opinon and I aint changing it for nobody.
No need to get all defensive. I didn't ask you to change your opinion. Even though i find your whole 'P2P are the only real MMO' comment complete absurd it is your opinion.
Sorry but people like you are they type I just refuse to talk to. Anybody with an once of common sense can read what I said and get a understanding of what I am saying.
Given that companies don't report very much information, how are you getting the "mark" that you are saying that SuperData shoots wide of?
If you go back and look at the data they have been producing then - if they are "accurate" - then we it would be reasonable for them to have picked up e.g. WoW's steep decline in subs earlier in the year; Zynga's profit warning and so forth; the SWTOR data a couple of years ago that didn't hold up when EA actually released results. Others examples as well - LoL article that mmorpg.com did had some discussion on it.
Little changes - within an expected margin of error; big changes missed: imply a much bigger margin of error.
Would the people embracing the data still do so if the margin of error was - lets say 50% since it is getting those 37M hits from somewhere . For with that margin of error one could argue that TESO was not doing very well at all. Now my answer would be the same: its a fuzzy guess, be sceptical, don't treat it as gospel.
Edit: which is why SWTORs fans don't have to worry - since taken at face value this data suggests that SWTOR income is down 15% in the last year and 40% since it went f2p. Say that on the SWTOR forums !
Hey, look at this. A year ago SuperData says that WoW earnings dropped dramatically from 7 months prior.
Unless you've got actual marks that SuperData missed, you haven't really answered my question. What are you comparing SuperData's numbers to, in order to say that they have "missed the mark"? Where are you getting the "mark"? XFire? Earnings Statements? Where?
When a company buys SuperData's information (and they do buy it), they can compare SuperData's information to their own internal information. This tells the companies buying the information how good or bad the information really is. SuperData keeps selling their information and MMO/MMORPG developers keep buying it. Nobody on these forums is selling their information to developers, which tells me that SuperData's information is better than anyone's information here.
I would absolutely agree that the information provided for free from SuperData is of little use to most people as anything other than forum fodder. Like the public, free information provided by developers themselves, the pieces are presented such that they can't be put together to get a more in depth view of what a developer is doing. It's interesting, but not terribly useful.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Yes, you did. I said you can tell how good a game is doing by how often it gets content and I mean FTP, BTP and PTP. ESO and Final Fantasy XIV are both successful pay to play games that do not have in game cash shops and I believe that is the best model period. There is no pay to win, no advantage to certain players and everybody has the same equal opportunity to actually earn things in game. This is just my opinon and I aint changing it for nobody.
No need to get all defensive. I didn't ask you to change your opinion. Even though i find your whole 'P2P are the only real MMO' comment complete absurd it is your opinion.
Sorry but people like you are they type I just refuse to talk to. Anybody with an once of common sense can read what I said and get a understanding of what I am saying.
The people who disagree with your opinion and call it absurd? you are right.
And yes anyone can read the tripe you wrote about what constitutes real MMO. But like i said it is your opinion. Here copy pasting again what you wrote earlier which is crystal clear. I don't know why you are still arguing with me? you already made your point.
Exactly, ESO is a sub based game that does not have an in game cash shop exactly like a real mmo should be.
If I were to do stats on a game I would only compare it to like games. So my list would be MMO's only like:
WOW
LotRO
NW
L1
L2
ESO
GW2
STO
EQ
AoC
RIFT
Now if I wanted certain games to rank high on my list I would pick and choose the games on the list no matter what types of games they were. That way I could adjust the parameters more easily to get the results I want. It would be nice if they stated exactly what they were counting also.
I won't comment on a posted list about a game that's not shown on the list, only mentioned.
You sir should work for one of these political candidates you have a true understanding for the game.
Comments
If you read OP on ESO forums "There are a bunch of questions with this number - the largest of which is "does this include box sales as well?". But ignore that, cause we're all speculating anyways", and comes up with 1.2 million subscribers.
The OP is no better than a marketing exec. and just as trustworthy.
The list isn't about subs, it's entirely microtransactions, and has nothing to do with subs and box sales.
They did not state that ESO is number 11, only that hearthstone came in ahead of games like ESO and ToR.
Again, this was an article about IN GAME SPENDING, not subscriptions or box sales.
Lol... I wasn't thinking of you when I mentioned Skyrim Online that was the other guy who doesn't like science. You are just one of the usual forum suspects.
And where did I say anything about 1.2 million? That's just your strawman.
My response to you was on the point that you are so desperate to be negative about ESO that you're attacking about the only statistical analysis company that the industry seems to trust... Chinese website indeed.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Actually, profits don't even paint a picture of the success of a product. Think about loss leaders like consoles. Playstation is, probably, Sony's most profitable business unit at the moment and their console itself loses money for every unit that flies off the shelf.
So what are ESOs intentions? Well, we do know that they're selling us a box. However, that could just be for initial return on investment. We know they have subscribers, but that could simply be to establish a user base and determine what that's going to look like. Maybe their intention is to go F2P w/ sub. It has been profitable for SWTOR.
So if this initial release is merely a means of gaining a "die hard" user base, even if they are showing a loss, it may still be tracking to plan. So the only real measure is people using the product at the momeny.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Again, an assumption you made up. (I've noticed I have to type that in almost every response to your posts....Why is that?) Your accusations are unfounded. My feelings towards ESO have NOTHING to do with questioning unverifiable facts posted by fans. The 2 are entirely separate. Do you even realize that I've been personally discussing purchasing ESO with a friend of mine since I have recognized that much work has been done since the game's launch? No, you didn't know that because you don't know me from shit yet you still feel justified in commenting on me and my personal feelings and your assumptions about them.
This is about fact finding, not personal feelings.
Seriously. All this worthless list does is prove the person who created it has no idea WTF a MMO is. I mean how long until anything with "online" at the end of the game name is a MMO?
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Fair enough. If however you gave me $2 and I was only able to pay you back $1.75, I would consider you gullible and would assume you would invest your money elsewhere next time.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
Good for ESO. Haters gonna hate but its good for the lolz.
Most popluar mmo on the site.
#1 Today
#1 Week
#2 Month
#1 6 months
#1 Year
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
ROFl, if that were the case ESO wouldn't be on the list at all..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Dude i cant freaking wait for the Infinity Wars movies.
Off topic im sorry but i had a bit of a nerdgasm.
On topic: Im pretty sure ESO is healthy. Look around while you play.
Maybe you should actually read the article.
Exactly, ESO is a sub based game that does not have an in game cash shop exactly like a real mmo should be. You can always tell how good a game is doing by how often it gets content. WoW is still king but Elder Scrolls Online and Final Fantasy XIV are the new standards in the mmo genre.
Sorry to burst your bubble but F2P and B2P MMOS also get regular content updates and some even more than ESO and FFXIV.
And i had no idea that a real or fake MMO had anything to do with what payment model it follows. I swear sometimes you people say the darnest things.
Show me anywhere where I said free to play games do not get content? I swear sometimes you people need to learn to read and comprehend.
Considering you had to specifically mention that ESO is 'sub based' game and how it is the 'real' MMO... did i completely mis read where you were going with this?
Yes, you did. I said you can tell how good a game is doing by how often it gets content and I mean FTP, BTP and PTP. ESO and Final Fantasy XIV are both successful pay to play games that do not have in game cash shops and I believe that is the best model period. There is no pay to win, no advantage to certain players and everybody has the same equal opportunity to actually earn things in game. This is just my opinon and I aint changing it for nobody.
No need to get all defensive. I didn't ask you to change your opinion. Even though i find your whole 'P2P are the only real MMO' comment complete absurd it is your opinion.
Sorry but people like you are they type I just refuse to talk to. Anybody with an once of common sense can read what I said and get a understanding of what I am saying.
Hey, look at this. A year ago SuperData says that WoW earnings dropped dramatically from 7 months prior.
http://gamerant.com/world-of-warcraft-subscriptions-revenue-down/
Unless you've got actual marks that SuperData missed, you haven't really answered my question. What are you comparing SuperData's numbers to, in order to say that they have "missed the mark"? Where are you getting the "mark"? XFire? Earnings Statements? Where?
When a company buys SuperData's information (and they do buy it), they can compare SuperData's information to their own internal information. This tells the companies buying the information how good or bad the information really is. SuperData keeps selling their information and MMO/MMORPG developers keep buying it. Nobody on these forums is selling their information to developers, which tells me that SuperData's information is better than anyone's information here.
I would absolutely agree that the information provided for free from SuperData is of little use to most people as anything other than forum fodder. Like the public, free information provided by developers themselves, the pieces are presented such that they can't be put together to get a more in depth view of what a developer is doing. It's interesting, but not terribly useful.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
The people who disagree with your opinion and call it absurd? you are right.
And yes anyone can read the tripe you wrote about what constitutes real MMO. But like i said it is your opinion. Here copy pasting again what you wrote earlier which is crystal clear. I don't know why you are still arguing with me? you already made your point.
Exactly, ESO is a sub based game that does not have an in game cash shop exactly like a real mmo should be.
You sir should work for one of these political candidates you have a true understanding for the game.