I am one of those who has been following ESO's progress with a great deal of interest. I sat out launch after playing beta given some personal issues I had with the game.
I personally feel that Zenimax is listening to the community at large and is in the process of making some very positive changes. If all goes well I see myself rewarding their recent efforts by purchasing the game and forming my own opinions
Del Cabon A US Army ('Just Cause') Vet and MMORPG Native formerly of Trinsic, Norath and Dereth. Currently playing LOTRO.
I find it hilarious when I see posts like this. ..
ESO didn't and doesn't need another chance. It NEVER FAILED! It never crashed and burnt. It has ALWAYS has been doing GREAT! There's people everywhere in game. No low population! No disastrous launch compared to the real launch fails either. WoW was Much worse.
/shakes head and leaves
My feelings exactly, perhaps you need to give it a second chance, we don't
For me the game is just badly designed. Megaserver, seperation of factions, no pvp outside main pvp zone (which is huge and boring, and battles are mostly just zerg fests), bad phasing, zones.
They should have made the game one seemless contenent, where you only choose your faction later in the game, so everyone plays together exploring all the zones, then at some point once you learn of the factions you can choose one and either flag yourself for pvp or carry on playing as a "covert" supporter of your faction. This would allow everyone to play together making a larger more alive world, as well as allowing those who wanted to pvp while questiing and experience random battles like that could do so.
The main pvp zone is a joke, just a huge wasted zone of zerging. It's not fun at all and I tried to play many different roles including healer and stealth. It's just bad and seems pointless.
The megaserver and pvp campaigns also mean you don't really get to "know" anybody, including other guilds. In other mmo's you come to know the good active players and guilds etc. This is one of the things that make mmo communities. ESO doesn't have this. No matter what it feels single player and the enemy may as well be npcs.
The justice system that is coming sounds ridiculous too. It's like they badly designed the game and now trying to patch it up, trying to fit a system into a game which doesn't really cater for it. Veteran ranks were a complete joke, I literally said to myself at reaching 50, "what the f*** is this". The developers were so lazy and designed such a badly thought out game that they make you play the other factions' quests to grind through "veteran ranks", because they also couldn't think of any more content to put in and allowed people to level so fast. It's insulting really. Admittedly the new system they are bringing in fixes part of this aspect of the game, but still you must go play the other faction quests. My idea of not seperating factions from the start would have fixed this problem.
It's sad because ESO is a good game. The combat is the best in an MMO's I've played, though being able to swap weapons was something I really hated, the same combat mechanic GW2 uses. Not a fan of that. Animations were good, graphics and art style all good, sound and music there, but for me overall the entire design of the game was the wrong direction. I resubbed beginning of month and played a few hours, but I doubt very much if I will return to see the upcoming changes.
It still hasn't solved it's biggest problem, and the reason that I and many others quit and want nothing to do with it.
It's still a single player game with lousy group incentives, and no community.
What mmos out there where people group up for reasons other then doing an instance? I am not debating what you said because mmos in general seem to more solo oriented but coming from Lineage 2 where people just grouped up all the time I have been looking for a mmo where people grouped.
This is so true. I can't think of any game in recent memory that requires you to group at all. Everything is solo now. An even bigger problem is that everything is so easy that it seems like it's been tuned for a 5 year-old. At least ESO was a bit of a step up in difficulty.
I used to play solo games then I realised that was why I kept quitting them. If you do not have content that forces groups like FFXIV in the end the game just gets stale. I never realised this I used to think soloing was fine but once you get doing interesting and strategic grouping for dungeons you don't want anything else.
Originally posted by cheyane I used to play solo games then I realised that was why I kept quitting them. If you do not have content that forces groups like FFXIV in the end the game just gets stale. I never realised this I used to think soloing was fine but once you get doing interesting and strategic grouping for dungeons you don't want anything else.
I bought Final Fantasy XIV when it first came out and got a Scholor to level 40 before I quit. It was the same thing as all other mmos. Solo questing only grouping up for the instance dungeon every 5-10 levels. I dont know about end game but waiting to you get there before you can start grouping is the same as other mmos. The journey from start to end needs to be group based.
It still hasn't solved it's biggest problem, and the reason that I and many others quit and want nothing to do with it.
It's still a single player game with lousy group incentives, and no community.
What mmos out there where people group up for reasons other then doing an instance? I am not debating what you said because mmos in general seem to more solo oriented but coming from Lineage 2 where people just grouped up all the time I have been looking for a mmo where people grouped.
This is so true. I can't think of any game in recent memory that requires you to group at all. Everything is solo now. An even bigger problem is that everything is so easy that it seems like it's been tuned for a 5 year-old. At least ESO was a bit of a step up in difficulty.
There have been plenty of times when I have been in an Open World Dungeon ( another thing that sets ESO apart and something that I love that most mmos dont have ) and have ran into other players and even though we did not send an invite to actually group we worked together in the dungeon. In ESO you can still get that feeling of grouping even though you are not technically grouped.
Best Graphics, Best Combat, Best World, Best Character Customization, Best NPC Voice's
Best Graphics: Subjective, and debatable.
Best Combat: Only if you enjoy swinging a sword around inside a vat of molasses.
Best Character Customization: Yes, you have 1,453,729 unique options and can still retain that "someone shoved a cattle prod up my rear deer-in-the-headlights" look.
Best NPC Voices: Thank the gods they found all those famous actors to regurgitate the mindless drivel this game passes off as dialog.
It still hasn't solved it's biggest problem, and the reason that I and many others quit and want nothing to do with it.
It's still a single player game with lousy group incentives, and no community.
What mmos out there where people group up for reasons other then doing an instance? I am not debating what you said because mmos in general seem to more solo oriented but coming from Lineage 2 where people just grouped up all the time I have been looking for a mmo where people grouped.
This is so true. I can't think of any game in recent memory that requires you to group at all. Everything is solo now. An even bigger problem is that everything is so easy that it seems like it's been tuned for a 5 year-old. At least ESO was a bit of a step up in difficulty.
There have been plenty of times when I have been in an Open World Dungeon ( another thing that sets ESO apart and something that I love that most mmos dont have ) and have ran into other players and even though we did not send an invite to actually group we worked together in the dungeon. In ESO you can still get that feeling of grouping even though you are not technically grouped.
Yeah, I know what you mean. For me, I usually roll tanks, and to squeeze any sort of challenge out of a game, I'm usually pulling 7, 8, 10 mobs at a time. Can't do that in ESO. Actually, I found that the tank builds were a little squishy for the DPS hit.
I think that the biggest issue for ESO was simply how the story was implemented. It's just so difficult to execute that "Last Hope" style story in an MMO Universe. That is, unless you ignore everything else around you (ie, you see 10 people doing the same quest as you, but you're somehow the only one who can do it). It sucks, too, because it's like they set it up so well! You're like some prisoner, escaping, and need to GTF outta there! Soooooo, why can't these "prisoners" all be people who are "gifted" in some way. This is what I was psyched about, it was like they were setting up the story for us to be dropped into an MMO universe, and then they shut it down as soon as you get to the started island and we revert back to the single-player "You're our only hope" story. I think this is another reason that it's so solo oriented.
It still hasn't solved it's biggest problem, and the reason that I and many others quit and want nothing to do with it.
It's still a single player game with lousy group incentives, and no community.
What mmos out there where people group up for reasons other then doing an instance? I am not debating what you said because mmos in general seem to more solo oriented but coming from Lineage 2 where people just grouped up all the time I have been looking for a mmo where people grouped.
This is so true. I can't think of any game in recent memory that requires you to group at all. Everything is solo now. An even bigger problem is that everything is so easy that it seems like it's been tuned for a 5 year-old. At least ESO was a bit of a step up in difficulty.
There have been plenty of times when I have been in an Open World Dungeon ( another thing that sets ESO apart and something that I love that most mmos dont have ) and have ran into other players and even though we did not send an invite to actually group we worked together in the dungeon. In ESO you can still get that feeling of grouping even though you are not technically grouped.
Funny you should say this as I just did this in Sanguine's Demesne in Shadowfen with 2 other players. We weren't grouped but we stumbled across each other at the entrance and did the 5 mini bosses and group boss together.
We even played the lute, danced and chatted while we waited for a couple of spawns.
I find it hilarious when I see posts like this. ..
ESO didn't and doesn't need another chance. It NEVER FAILED! It never crashed and burnt. It has ALWAYS has been doing GREAT! There's people everywhere in game. No low population! No disastrous launch compared to the real launch fails either. WoW was Much worse.
/shakes head and leaves
My feelings exactly, perhaps you need to give it a second chance, we don't
I find it hilarious when people talk about there being lots of population in the game. If people ever start to say anything else the game is finished. Why? It uses megaservers. The population would have to be very low indeed if you don't see people.
As far as launch issues go quoting WoW excuses nothing; hardware and software have come a long way. Zenimax picked a launch date months before it was finished and then they launched. Classic Yoshi: reasons why FFXIV failed.
That said in some ways TESO's launch was exactly like WoW's - some people had problems others didn't. Sovrath in the, (excellent) post above had no problems. Others did as Zenimax acknowledged. same with WoW. If you started playing on the new servers - added from day 5 - you had no problem. As far as bugs and issues go though: the patch notes speak for themselves.
Another reason why people left however - hinted at by some of the above posts - is that people "finished" the game and moved on. Same reason they leave WoW or whatever. At the end of the day there are only so many games you have on the go "at once". And - I suggest - most people chop and change. Which is why companies release "big expansions" e.g. WoD to bring people back - for a little while. I expect Zenimax to do the same with one or more - paid - expansions covering The Dark Brotherhood and / or Thieves' Guild.
Best Graphics, Best Combat, Best World, Best Character Customization, Best NPC Voice's
Best Graphics: Subjective, and debatable.
Best Combat: Only if you enjoy swinging a sword around inside a vat of molasses.
Best Character Customization: Yes, you have 1,453,729 unique options and can still retain that "someone shoved a cattle prod up my rear deer-in-the-headlights" look.
Best NPC Voices: Thank the gods they found all those famous actors to regurgitate the mindless drivel this game passes off as dialog.
I updated my original post with Best Questing and Best Dungeons.
I mean maybe if they went the way of FFXIV:ARR and remade the entire game into a worthy followup to Skyrim it would warrant a second chance but the way the game is now? No......let it die a much deserved death.
If the game deserves a 2nd chance and has improved to the point the article suggests, all ESO would have to do is offer a free come on back and try us out weekend.
I just got one from Eve offering a free 10 day come on back and see how the game has improved offer.
Many games do this on a regular basis. So any kind of free offer, 2 weeks, 1 week, even a weekend would be a good way to show off how much ESO has really improved, the skills in the skills trees fixed, bugs fixed, etc.
I don't see them doing this cause ESO is smoke and mirrors in my opinion but I would love to be proved wrong and offer an apology after trying it out even for a free 2 or 3 days.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
If the game deserves a 2nd chance and has improved to the point the article suggests, all ESO would have to do is offer a free come on back and try us out weekend.
I just got one from Eve offering a free 10 day come on back and see how the game has improved offer.
Many games do this on a regular basis. So any kind of free offer, 2 weeks, 1 week, even a weekend would be a good way to show off how much ESO has really improved, the skills in the skills trees fixed, bugs fixed, etc.
I don't see them doing this cause ESO is smoke and mirrors in my opinion but I would love to be proved wrong and offer an apology after trying it out even for a free 2 or 3 days.
I do think that ESO got an undeserved bad rap at launch due to very common and transient launch issues (too bad it launched before Archeage so that everyone would have had what a truly horrible launch and rampant botting/hacking really looks like fresh in their minds) that tended to lower review scores by at least 0.5 points in my opinion.
But these first few months have been more about correcting problems and tweaking than adding enough new things to deserve a re-review.
The time to "give it a second chance" will come once the Imperial City dungeon is in and the ill-advised and unrewarding VR system is fully replaced... just not quite yet.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
If the game deserves a 2nd chance and has improved to the point the article suggests, all ESO would have to do is offer a free come on back and try us out weekend.
I just got one from Eve offering a free 10 day come on back and see how the game has improved offer.
Many games do this on a regular basis. So any kind of free offer, 2 weeks, 1 week, even a weekend would be a good way to show off how much ESO has really improved, the skills in the skills trees fixed, bugs fixed, etc.
I don't see them doing this cause ESO is smoke and mirrors in my opinion but I would love to be proved wrong and offer an apology after trying it out even for a free 2 or 3 days.
Thanks for the info, I'm looking forward to be proven wrong.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I do think that ESO got an undeserved bad rap at launch due to very common and transient launch issues (too bad it launched before Archeage so that everyone would have had what a truly horrible launch and rampant botting/hacking really looks like fresh in their minds) that tended to lower review scores by at least 0.5 points in my opinion.
But these first few months have been more about correcting problems and tweaking than adding enough new things to deserve a re-review.
The time to "give it a second chance" will come once the Imperial City dungeon is in and the ill-advised and unrewarding VR system is fully replaced... just not quite yet.
I stopped playing at V1 cause I had played those areas before because I liked exploring content with multiple alts. Wasn't going to go through the exact same content with the only difference being mobs having increased HP and DPS.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
It's just not a lot of fun to play. It was a nice idea in theory. I always thought that an Elder Scrolls style game would be a nice idea but I think in practice it didn't pan out in reality. Could an Elder Scrolls MMORPG work well? I don't know, I just don't think ESO was the best test of the concept though. The one thing I loved about the single player Elder Scrolls games was the depth, the world felt alive, vibrant, immersive with almost endless possibilities. This has almost none of those features, it feels limited from the opening moments and continues in that way. The character class and skills are also too limited. There's nothing to look forward to in any aspect of advancement. More power to anyone who enjoys it but I am glad to see there are so many people who feel the same way I do about it because that means there will be a pressure on games developers to push the envelope further than these people did.
Comments
I am one of those who has been following ESO's progress with a great deal of interest. I sat out launch after playing beta given some personal issues I had with the game.
I personally feel that Zenimax is listening to the community at large and is in the process of making some very positive changes. If all goes well I see myself rewarding their recent efforts by purchasing the game and forming my own opinions
Del Cabon
A US Army ('Just Cause') Vet and MMORPG Native formerly of Trinsic, Norath and Dereth. Currently playing LOTRO.
My feelings exactly, perhaps you need to give it a second chance, we don't
When people make statements like this I always ask the same question. What games have better?
For me the game is just badly designed. Megaserver, seperation of factions, no pvp outside main pvp zone (which is huge and boring, and battles are mostly just zerg fests), bad phasing, zones.
They should have made the game one seemless contenent, where you only choose your faction later in the game, so everyone plays together exploring all the zones, then at some point once you learn of the factions you can choose one and either flag yourself for pvp or carry on playing as a "covert" supporter of your faction. This would allow everyone to play together making a larger more alive world, as well as allowing those who wanted to pvp while questiing and experience random battles like that could do so.
The main pvp zone is a joke, just a huge wasted zone of zerging. It's not fun at all and I tried to play many different roles including healer and stealth. It's just bad and seems pointless.
The megaserver and pvp campaigns also mean you don't really get to "know" anybody, including other guilds. In other mmo's you come to know the good active players and guilds etc. This is one of the things that make mmo communities. ESO doesn't have this. No matter what it feels single player and the enemy may as well be npcs.
The justice system that is coming sounds ridiculous too. It's like they badly designed the game and now trying to patch it up, trying to fit a system into a game which doesn't really cater for it. Veteran ranks were a complete joke, I literally said to myself at reaching 50, "what the f*** is this". The developers were so lazy and designed such a badly thought out game that they make you play the other factions' quests to grind through "veteran ranks", because they also couldn't think of any more content to put in and allowed people to level so fast. It's insulting really. Admittedly the new system they are bringing in fixes part of this aspect of the game, but still you must go play the other faction quests. My idea of not seperating factions from the start would have fixed this problem.
It's sad because ESO is a good game. The combat is the best in an MMO's I've played, though being able to swap weapons was something I really hated, the same combat mechanic GW2 uses. Not a fan of that. Animations were good, graphics and art style all good, sound and music there, but for me overall the entire design of the game was the wrong direction. I resubbed beginning of month and played a few hours, but I doubt very much if I will return to see the upcoming changes.
This is so true. I can't think of any game in recent memory that requires you to group at all. Everything is solo now. An even bigger problem is that everything is so easy that it seems like it's been tuned for a 5 year-old. At least ESO was a bit of a step up in difficulty.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
I bought Final Fantasy XIV when it first came out and got a Scholor to level 40 before I quit. It was the same thing as all other mmos. Solo questing only grouping up for the instance dungeon every 5-10 levels. I dont know about end game but waiting to you get there before you can start grouping is the same as other mmos. The journey from start to end needs to be group based.
There have been plenty of times when I have been in an Open World Dungeon ( another thing that sets ESO apart and something that I love that most mmos dont have ) and have ran into other players and even though we did not send an invite to actually group we worked together in the dungeon. In ESO you can still get that feeling of grouping even though you are not technically grouped.
Best Graphics: Subjective, and debatable.
Best Combat: Only if you enjoy swinging a sword around inside a vat of molasses.
Best Character Customization: Yes, you have 1,453,729 unique options and can still retain that "someone shoved a cattle prod up my rear deer-in-the-headlights" look.
Best NPC Voices: Thank the gods they found all those famous actors to regurgitate the mindless drivel this game passes off as dialog.
Yeah, I know what you mean. For me, I usually roll tanks, and to squeeze any sort of challenge out of a game, I'm usually pulling 7, 8, 10 mobs at a time. Can't do that in ESO. Actually, I found that the tank builds were a little squishy for the DPS hit.
I think that the biggest issue for ESO was simply how the story was implemented. It's just so difficult to execute that "Last Hope" style story in an MMO Universe. That is, unless you ignore everything else around you (ie, you see 10 people doing the same quest as you, but you're somehow the only one who can do it). It sucks, too, because it's like they set it up so well! You're like some prisoner, escaping, and need to GTF outta there! Soooooo, why can't these "prisoners" all be people who are "gifted" in some way. This is what I was psyched about, it was like they were setting up the story for us to be dropped into an MMO universe, and then they shut it down as soon as you get to the started island and we revert back to the single-player "You're our only hope" story. I think this is another reason that it's so solo oriented.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Funny you should say this as I just did this in Sanguine's Demesne in Shadowfen with 2 other players. We weren't grouped but we stumbled across each other at the entrance and did the 5 mini bosses and group boss together.
We even played the lute, danced and chatted while we waited for a couple of spawns.
I have resubbed and found a much better game,less lag thanks to the EU servers,smoother combat and the rebalance of the veteran zones.
But once done V14 I'm struggling with the class system,being a Nightblade really left no choice on how to build the character.
I really hope that with champion system we will have more choice on the play styel of each class and not only one forced build.
I find it hilarious when people talk about there being lots of population in the game. If people ever start to say anything else the game is finished. Why? It uses megaservers. The population would have to be very low indeed if you don't see people.
As far as launch issues go quoting WoW excuses nothing; hardware and software have come a long way. Zenimax picked a launch date months before it was finished and then they launched. Classic Yoshi: reasons why FFXIV failed.
That said in some ways TESO's launch was exactly like WoW's - some people had problems others didn't. Sovrath in the, (excellent) post above had no problems. Others did as Zenimax acknowledged. same with WoW. If you started playing on the new servers - added from day 5 - you had no problem. As far as bugs and issues go though: the patch notes speak for themselves.
Another reason why people left however - hinted at by some of the above posts - is that people "finished" the game and moved on. Same reason they leave WoW or whatever. At the end of the day there are only so many games you have on the go "at once". And - I suggest - most people chop and change. Which is why companies release "big expansions" e.g. WoD to bring people back - for a little while. I expect Zenimax to do the same with one or more - paid - expansions covering The Dark Brotherhood and / or Thieves' Guild.
I updated my original post with Best Questing and Best Dungeons.
If the game deserves a 2nd chance and has improved to the point the article suggests, all ESO would have to do is offer a free come on back and try us out weekend.
I just got one from Eve offering a free 10 day come on back and see how the game has improved offer.
Many games do this on a regular basis. So any kind of free offer, 2 weeks, 1 week, even a weekend would be a good way to show off how much ESO has really improved, the skills in the skills trees fixed, bugs fixed, etc.
I don't see them doing this cause ESO is smoke and mirrors in my opinion but I would love to be proved wrong and offer an apology after trying it out even for a free 2 or 3 days.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Some peeps over on the PTS have found some interesting stuff with regard to free trials being implemented.
Your post is a bit premature, OP.
I do think that ESO got an undeserved bad rap at launch due to very common and transient launch issues (too bad it launched before Archeage so that everyone would have had what a truly horrible launch and rampant botting/hacking really looks like fresh in their minds) that tended to lower review scores by at least 0.5 points in my opinion.
But these first few months have been more about correcting problems and tweaking than adding enough new things to deserve a re-review.
The time to "give it a second chance" will come once the Imperial City dungeon is in and the ill-advised and unrewarding VR system is fully replaced... just not quite yet.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Thanks for the info, I'm looking forward to be proven wrong.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I stopped playing at V1 cause I had played those areas before because I liked exploring content with multiple alts. Wasn't going to go through the exact same content with the only difference being mobs having increased HP and DPS.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
ESO 5th major content update goes live 11/3. That's 5 updates over the past 7 months, sticking with their every 6 week promise.
ESO absolutely deserves a second chance.
Step 1, fire everyone who was involved in the current incarnation of the game...