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AA is no longer pay to win.

13

Comments

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    Originally posted by farbege

    Its a good thing that TS trees going down now. It was incredible unjustified to have relying lucky guys selling them for 1000g+ .

    It would be also a good sign IF the game was really P2W cause casual plyers with a job can compete against the no job basement  dwellers but unfortunately io dont see its p2w.

    The hypothetical person that started the exact time like yourself and you race against and meet in a 1 vs 1 Arena to beat and win against  just doesnt exist in 99,999999% of the cases.

    I guess it was inevitable. Players have become so used-to P2W that many have now convinced themselves that it's only P2W if the prices are "high". If "everyone can afford it", then it's not P2W anymore ? ROFLMAO

    Human nature is wonderful. If people see there's no way to avoid something unpleasant, they simply redefine what "unpleasant" means.

     

    Yes, it's much better to have these rare TS trees available cheaply in the Cash Shop. Now instead of having to spend 1000g ingame, a player only needs to spend $20-$30 in the Cash Shop on lucky boxes.

     

    They should apply this same logic to top-end gear in the game, then it will be completely "fair". Rather sell the gear at reasonable prices (*cough*) in the Cash Shop than allow some lucky guys to sell the items for 2-3K gold on the AH.

     

     

  • farbegefarbege Member UncommonPosts: 305
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko
    Originally posted by farbege

    Its a good thing that TS trees going down now. It was incredible unjustified to have relying lucky guys selling them for 1000g+ .

    It would be also a good sign IF the game was really P2W cause casual plyers with a job can compete against the no job basement  dwellers but unfortunately io dont see its p2w.

    The hypothetical person that started the exact time like yourself and you race against and meet in a 1 vs 1 Arena to beat and win against  just doesnt exist in 99,999999% of the cases.

    <...>

     

    Yes, it's much better to have these rare TS trees available cheaply in the Cash Shop. Now instead of having to spend 1000g ingame, a player only needs to spend $20-$30 in the Cash Shop on lucky boxes.

    <...>

     

     

    No, on my server a miracolous tree is worth 40g in AH. The TS log is about 80g at AH and a whole TS tree 240g - 270g.

    With prizes falling rapidly.   Everything through reasonable in game play  affordable.

  • Overmind2057Overmind2057 Member UncommonPosts: 21

    Still defending your game is not pay2win?

     

    Cash-shop that is not specific to cosmetics is pay2win.

     

    What is pay2win in a game that anything is achievable with time? Easy, you want gear, go farm and trade or w/e and make your gold. Or I can buy some RNG packs and make the same in a few minutes. It is pay2win when you can achieve something significantly faster with a swipe of a credit card then playing the game. I have no idea why people defend their game, why do you even care? Should you not be busy enjoying said game?

     

    I liked what someone posted earlier, everyone is renaming what pay2win is in their head to convince themselves that their game is indeed not pay2win. Changing the definition of a concept is one way to cope with an issue I guess. It's a very profitable model though, can't really blame Trion, it's all about the money in the end. 

  • farbegefarbege Member UncommonPosts: 305
    Originally posted by Overmind2057

    Still defending your game is not pay2win?

     

    Cash-shop that is not specific to cosmetics is pay2win.

     

    What is pay2win in a game that anything is achievable with time? Easy, you want gear, go farm and trade or w/e and make your gold. Or I can buy some RNG packs and make the same in a few minutes. It is pay2win when you can achieve something significantly faster with a swipe of a credit card then playing the game. I have no idea why people defend their game, why do you even care? Should you not be busy enjoying said game?

     

    I liked what someone posted earlier, everyone is renaming what pay2win is in their head to convince themselves that their game is indeed not pay2win. Changing the definition of a concept is one way to cope with an issue I guess. It's a very profitable model though, can't really blame Trion, it's all about the money in the end. 

     

    The problem is nothing what has been said or showcased so far is convincing into believe the thesis "AA is P2W". 

    Aslong as no serious arguments are brought to table that is just a opinion without being prooved being true.

    Beside my regualar patron sub i didn't pay any real money yet and if i start to make more gold profit i even could start pay my Patron with ingame earned money and stop spending real money at all and having suba cess witout paying subscription ! what is that  been called ?

    AA is being paid  to play ?  lol

     

  • ThestrainThestrain Member CommonPosts: 390
    Originally posted by farbege
    Originally posted by Overmind2057

    Still defending your game is not pay2win?

     

    Cash-shop that is not specific to cosmetics is pay2win.

     

    What is pay2win in a game that anything is achievable with time? Easy, you want gear, go farm and trade or w/e and make your gold. Or I can buy some RNG packs and make the same in a few minutes. It is pay2win when you can achieve something significantly faster with a swipe of a credit card then playing the game. I have no idea why people defend their game, why do you even care? Should you not be busy enjoying said game?

     

    I liked what someone posted earlier, everyone is renaming what pay2win is in their head to convince themselves that their game is indeed not pay2win. Changing the definition of a concept is one way to cope with an issue I guess. It's a very profitable model though, can't really blame Trion, it's all about the money in the end. 

     

    The problem is nothing what has been said or showcased so far is convincing into believe the thesis "AA is P2W". 

    Aslong as no serious arguments are brought to table that is just a opinion without being prooved.

    In other words 'i will stick thumbs into my ears and go lalalal no matter how many serious arguments are presented'.

    You said it right.

  • Overmind2057Overmind2057 Member UncommonPosts: 21
    Originally posted by farbege
    Originally posted by Overmind2057

    Still defending your game is not pay2win?

     

    Cash-shop that is not specific to cosmetics is pay2win.

     

    What is pay2win in a game that anything is achievable with time? Easy, you want gear, go farm and trade or w/e and make your gold. Or I can buy some RNG packs and make the same in a few minutes. It is pay2win when you can achieve something significantly faster with a swipe of a credit card then playing the game. I have no idea why people defend their game, why do you even care? Should you not be busy enjoying said game?

     

    I liked what someone posted earlier, everyone is renaming what pay2win is in their head to convince themselves that their game is indeed not pay2win. Changing the definition of a concept is one way to cope with an issue I guess. It's a very profitable model though, can't really blame Trion, it's all about the money in the end. 

     

    The problem is nothing what has been said or showcased so far is convincing into believe the thesis "AA is P2W". 

    Aslong as no serious arguments are brought to table that is just a opinion without being prooved being true.

    Beside my regualar patron sub i didn't pay any real money yet and if i start to make more gold profit i even could start pay my Patron with ingame earned money and stop spending real money at all and having suba cess witout paying subscription ! what is that  been called ?

    AA is being paid  to play ?  lol

     

    What you basically said is, "if I can do it, everyone can." No, not everyone is created equal because if everyone could do it, nobody would be here complaining about pay2win. 

    So I ask you, does your game have a cash-shop?

    Does it provide you with non-cosmetic items (directly OR indirectly like RNG boxes)?

    If you answered yes to both, guess what buddy? Yup... pay2win.

    Now if your the type of person that asked, "well what is winning anyways." Then your understanding of the situation is clouded with your love of the game. Which is fine, people can't help but be bias towards things they love.

     

    *edit* O and I don't hate the game, I play it. I just love dealing with people on the internet.

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    Originally posted by farbege
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko
    Originally posted by farbege

    Its a good thing that TS trees going down now. It was incredible unjustified to have relying lucky guys selling them for 1000g+ .

    It would be also a good sign IF the game was really P2W cause casual plyers with a job can compete against the no job basement  dwellers but unfortunately io dont see its p2w.

    The hypothetical person that started the exact time like yourself and you race against and meet in a 1 vs 1 Arena to beat and win against  just doesnt exist in 99,999999% of the cases.

    <...>

     

    Yes, it's much better to have these rare TS trees available cheaply in the Cash Shop. Now instead of having to spend 1000g ingame, a player only needs to spend $20-$30 in the Cash Shop on lucky boxes.

    <...>

     

     

    No, on my server a miracolous tree is worth 40g in AH. The TS log is about 80g at AH and a whole TS tree 240g - 270g.

    With prizes falling rapidly.   Everything through reasonable in game play  affordable.

    It's a miracle !

    Trion adds TS trees to the Cash Shop, and suddenly the price of TS trees on the AH drops like a stone, because there are 100's of them on offer... 

    Where did all these TS trees suddenly come from ? Who cares, they're super cheap now !

     

    You're quite right, nobody will ever "be able to bring a serious argument" that will convince you. 

    Because you're incapable of understanding any such argument...

     

    As long as you're enjoying the game, that's all that matters.

  • ArChWindArChWind Member UncommonPosts: 1,340

    Originally posted by farbege
    Originally posted by Overmind2057 Still defending your game is not pay2win?   Cash-shop that is not specific to cosmetics is pay2win.   What is pay2win in a game that anything is achievable with time? Easy, you want gear, go farm and trade or w/e and make your gold. Or I can buy some RNG packs and make the same in a few minutes. It is pay2win when you can achieve something significantly faster with a swipe of a credit card then playing the game. I have no idea why people defend their game, why do you even care? Should you not be busy enjoying said game?   I liked what someone posted earlier, everyone is renaming what pay2win is in their head to convince themselves that their game is indeed not pay2win. Changing the definition of a concept is one way to cope with an issue I guess. It's a very profitable model though, can't really blame Trion, it's all about the money in the end. 
     

    The problem is nothing what has been said or showcased so far is convincing into believe the thesis "AA is P2W". 

    Aslong as no serious arguments are brought to table that is just a opinion without being prooved being true.

    Beside my regualar patron sub i didn't pay any real money yet and if i start to make more gold profit i even could start pay my Patron with ingame earned money and stop spending real money at all and having suba cess witout paying subscription ! what is that  been called ?

    AA is being paid  to play ?  lol

     


    If you only play the PvE of this game it may never effect you but it has been my experience in PvP games like this that eventually your paths will cross with these guys. Once that happens you’ll get the full picture of what money over time advancement is about. If you’re in a PvP guild and if your guild plans to own a castle and defend it you’re more than likely to cross paths with these guys and when that happens you will find how under geared you are while you try to use sticks and stones against freight trains.

    Until that time comes you’ll continue to believe there is no pay to win.

    ArChWind — MMORPG.com Forums

    If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
  • GwahlurGwahlur Member UncommonPosts: 201
    So what changed to make it no longer p2w? They added more stuff to the cash shop? Really?
  • PiscorePiscore Member UncommonPosts: 263
    Originally posted by filmoret

    Ok sorry But I changed this thread because this game is no longer pay to win.  Everything is affordable now to an average player.  The launch of Auroria made huge changes to the economy and I like it.

    Kappa ?

    l2p

  • UhwopUhwop Member UncommonPosts: 1,791
    Originally posted by holdenhamlet
    Originally posted by Uhwop

    If it was p2w I wouldn't be able to spend gold to buy a seed that gives me the same thing.

    First of all, you can only get the rumbling saplings from the cash shop.  So someone is spending money at some point to get them.

    But also, it goes both ways.  If you can buy things with gold, you can also buy them with cash through apex.  Game is basically p2w as soon as they have apex in a game that is so dependent on in-game currency.

    There are limits to what you can do in-game, time being the biggest constrictor.  But some people A LOT of disposable income and are bypassing those limits.

    I don't have too much of a problem with this kind of thing in a game like Neverwinter, which is really f2p.  But in Archeage, you need to spend the 15 bucks a month for land and labor.

    Mixing this p2w stuff with what is basically a subscription game is why everyone is so upset.  Throw on the fact that the whole endgame basically revolves around PVP and it's basically a deal-breaker for many.

    If it was a PVE oriented game, people wouldn't be as upset that others are able to clear content easier.  But people are getting KILLED in this game because of it.

    The name of the item being bought is irrelevant, its a convenient item that has a chance to give the same thing as what you get from a non cash shop tree. 

    It doesn't have a higher RNG rate. It only matures faster and doesn't require water. 

    Apex is why the game isn't pay to win.  

    How are you winning by paying cash if everyone else is able to obtain the exact same thing you can with in game currency. 

    Christ, EVE is more P2W than archeage.  

  • UhwopUhwop Member UncommonPosts: 1,791
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Uhwop

    If it was p2w I wouldn't be able to spend gold to buy a seed that gives me the same thing.

    You know who says this? Publishers...

    This is the publisher answer to "P2W", you're going to have to do better than that to convince the overall consumer base though.

    Let me break it down this way, even though I hate using analogies, say I'm playing football or basketball. I have a limit in how I can perform actions... Now say this other guy comes along and opens up his wallet and a barrier breaks down. He no longer has to dribble (grind) he can just circumvent the entire process. What would that be called in such a game?

    This is what it basically boils down to for some folks. I personally couldn't care less. SO I don't argue from a position of being bent out of shape over such options. However I do see why some folks have a problem with it. ON multiple levels.

    There soothing you can do in the cash shop that gives you an advantage over anyone not using it. 

    its not an advantage if everyone else has access to the exact same thing without having to spend a dime. I can buy everything with gold that you could in the cash shop. 

    To use your ridiculously stupid analogy, the opponent of the guy who paid money for an advantage buys the exact same advantage with a bag of crap, and now they're both on an even playing field again. 

     

    Its a a video game, you're not winning anything, get over it. 

  • SoloAnythingSoloAnything Member UncommonPosts: 308
    The whole argument "it's not pay2win if you can buy with in game gold" is very wrong. If you're farming endless hours PLAYING the game to have more gold and someone else BUYS from cash shop WITHOUT PLAYING AT ALL is not pay2win than what is? Buying from shop beats the purpose of even playing the game and it's not different than buying gold from gold farmers back in the day and if you support gold farmers sure go ahead and support trio a shop.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Originally posted by Uhwop
    Originally posted by holdenhamlet
    Originally posted by Uhwop

    If it was p2w I wouldn't be able to spend gold to buy a seed that gives me the same thing.

    First of all, you can only get the rumbling saplings from the cash shop.  So someone is spending money at some point to get them.

    But also, it goes both ways.  If you can buy things with gold, you can also buy them with cash through apex.  Game is basically p2w as soon as they have apex in a game that is so dependent on in-game currency.

    There are limits to what you can do in-game, time being the biggest constrictor.  But some people A LOT of disposable income and are bypassing those limits.

    I don't have too much of a problem with this kind of thing in a game like Neverwinter, which is really f2p.  But in Archeage, you need to spend the 15 bucks a month for land and labor.

    Mixing this p2w stuff with what is basically a subscription game is why everyone is so upset.  Throw on the fact that the whole endgame basically revolves around PVP and it's basically a deal-breaker for many.

    If it was a PVE oriented game, people wouldn't be as upset that others are able to clear content easier.  But people are getting KILLED in this game because of it.

    The name of the item being bought is irrelevant, its a convenient item that has a chance to give the same thing as what you get from a non cash shop tree. 

    It doesn't have a higher RNG rate. It only matures faster and doesn't require water. 

    Apex is why the game isn't pay to win.  

    How are you winning by paying cash if everyone else is able to obtain the exact same thing you can with in game currency. 

    Christ, EVE is more P2W than archeage.  

    You better check your facts again, it has a 10% chance to be thunderstruck. The best chance for any other tree is 0.23% for pines in temperate zones.

     

    Here's a picture of 5 TS in a 16 X 16 out of one planting:

     

    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar Member RarePosts: 1,689
    Originally posted by Uhwop
     

    To use your ridiculously stupid analogy, the opponent of the guy who paid money for an advantage buys the exact same advantage with a bag of crap, and now they're both on an even playing field again. 

     

    Its a a video game, you're not winning anything, get over it. 

    That neglects to mention that while the guy who didn't pay money was putting together the bag of crap, the other guy was scoring goals.  And is also the one receiving that bag of crap as payment (the APEX seller) and can now take that crap and fling it back at him (example: APEX seller takes the gold given to him by the F2P person to buy an even better weapon with which to smack the F2P person with)

     

    As for "you're not winning anything, get over it", tell that to the guys  in-game who spent thousands on the game just so they could be the ones winning in the first place.  I find it doubtful most of them spent that much on the game just because they want Trion to have their money, but you're free to ask them yourself.

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591

    Next thing you know:

    (insert your game here) is not P2W! You can only buy the second best gear in the game!

     

    Seriously folks, when F2P first started arriving on the scene. Many of the things the opponents were worried about have come to fruition, things that the proponents said would never happen.

     

    The meaning of P2W is being watered down to accommodate.

     

    Some of you people are your own worst enemies.

     

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • GwahlurGwahlur Member UncommonPosts: 201
    Originally posted by Uhwop
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Uhwop

    If it was p2w I wouldn't be able to spend gold to buy a seed that gives me the same thing.

    You know who says this? Publishers...

    This is the publisher answer to "P2W", you're going to have to do better than that to convince the overall consumer base though.

    Let me break it down this way, even though I hate using analogies, say I'm playing football or basketball. I have a limit in how I can perform actions... Now say this other guy comes along and opens up his wallet and a barrier breaks down. He no longer has to dribble (grind) he can just circumvent the entire process. What would that be called in such a game?

    This is what it basically boils down to for some folks. I personally couldn't care less. SO I don't argue from a position of being bent out of shape over such options. However I do see why some folks have a problem with it. ON multiple levels.

    There soothing you can do in the cash shop that gives you an advantage over anyone not using it. 

    its not an advantage if everyone else has access to the exact same thing without having to spend a dime. I can buy everything with gold that you could in the cash shop. 

    To use your ridiculously stupid analogy, the opponent of the guy who paid money for an advantage buys the exact same advantage with a bag of crap, and now they're both on an even playing field again. 

     

    Its a a video game, you're not winning anything, get over it. 

    Such a load of bull man. Which vendor can you go to ingame to buy the exact same thing? If everyone was not reselling what they bought on the cash shop, how could you buy that with gold?

    And your analogy is a load of bull too. If the guy who paid money decided to keep his advantage to himself, you could not buy it. You could also not buy it with a bag of crap, you would instead have to transfer any goals you scored to the opponent for a while, while he was also scoring goals of his own. Or start the game with the opponent already leading by a set amount.

    But ofcourse, if by the time you had finished your transaction your opponent had a 10 goal lead, that doesn't help your opponent win in any way right?

    Talking football here (what americans call soccer), not handball or basketball or anything ridiculous like that.

  • LambonLambon Member UncommonPosts: 47

    this game is still pay 2 win.

     

    good luck and commitment means nothing because you can swipe you credit card and be even with the best.

    That destroy progression and creates a false competitive scene where people stupid enough to spend hundreds of dollars on a single video game become the winners.

     

    What happened to competing for world bosses and dedicating your time to leveling up an expensive crafting class??

     

     

     

  • GitmixGitmix Member UncommonPosts: 605

    Pay to win or not, doesn't really matter. What's undeniable about AA though is that it's very cash shop intensive (possibly the worste case I've ever played). From the time you log in to the time you log out it's cash shop, cash shop , cash shop. Even if you don't spend RL money yourself you'll inevitably HAVE to buy cash shop goods at least off the AH for gold.

    I can't stand this concept personally. I much prefer when everything is obtainable from within the game through mob grind, daily grind or anything else that involves an in-game activity. If that means mandatory subscription then so be it. Communities are always better in sub based games anyways.

    Screw "free to play" and their stinking cash shops.

     

  • SoloAnythingSoloAnything Member UncommonPosts: 308
    Originally posted by Pie_Rat

    Pay to win or not, doesn't really matter. What's undeniable about AA though is that it's very cash shop intensive (possibly the worste case I've ever played). From the time you log in to the time you log out it's cash shop, cash shop , cash shop. Even if you don't spend RL money yourself you'll inevitably HAVE to buy cash shop goods at least off the AH for gold.

    I can't stand this concept personally. I much prefer when everything is obtainable from within the game through mob grind, daily grind or anything else that involves an in-game activity. If that means mandatory subscription then so be it. Communities are always better in sub based games anyways.

    Screw "free to play" and their stinking cash shops.

     

    ^^ I can't agree more.

  • GwahlurGwahlur Member UncommonPosts: 201
    Originally posted by Pie_Rat

    Pay to win or not, doesn't really matter. What's undeniable about AA though is that it's very cash shop intensive (possibly the worste case I've ever played). From the time you log in to the time you log out it's cash shop, cash shop , cash shop. Even if you don't spend RL money yourself you'll inevitably HAVE to buy cash shop goods at least off the AH for gold.

    I can't stand this concept personally. I much prefer when everything is obtainable from within the game through mob grind, daily grind or anything else that involves an in-game activity. If that means mandatory subscription then so be it. Communities are always better in sub based games anyways.

    Screw "free to play" and their stinking cash shops.

     

    Yeah, agreed. No matter peoples definition of p2w, AA is undeniably very very cash shop intensive.

    Expansion scrolls, labor pots, etc etc, all artificial and totally unneccesary limits only put in the game to make people buy stuff from the cash shop.

    In other games you can buy xp-pots etc that speeds up the process, there's no hard caps like labor points to what they're speeding up though. Big difference.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by Uhwop
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Uhwop

    If it was p2w I wouldn't be able to spend gold to buy a seed that gives me the same thing.

    You know who says this? Publishers...

    This is the publisher answer to "P2W", you're going to have to do better than that to convince the overall consumer base though.

    Let me break it down this way, even though I hate using analogies, say I'm playing football or basketball. I have a limit in how I can perform actions... Now say this other guy comes along and opens up his wallet and a barrier breaks down. He no longer has to dribble (grind) he can just circumvent the entire process. What would that be called in such a game?

    This is what it basically boils down to for some folks. I personally couldn't care less. SO I don't argue from a position of being bent out of shape over such options. However I do see why some folks have a problem with it. ON multiple levels.

    There soothing you can do in the cash shop that gives you an advantage over anyone not using it. 

    its not an advantage if everyone else has access to the exact same thing without having to spend a dime. I can buy everything with gold that you could in the cash shop. 

    To use your ridiculously stupid analogy, the opponent of the guy who paid money for an advantage buys the exact same advantage with a bag of crap, and now they're both on an even playing field again. 

     

    Its a a video game, you're not winning anything, get over it. 

    Oh the canned you don't win anything response. In such a game the goal is to win PVP battles. So to say there's nothing to win is extremely shortsighted and canned.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591

    Man..... Would I ever love to own a game.....

     

    Where "Credit Card Cowboys" TM 

     

    Rule the West image

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • itchmonitchmon Member RarePosts: 1,999
    it never really was p2w to me (and i've played since closed beta) however i'll admit it was pushing it.  more like pay not to be inconvenienced.

    RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

    Currently Playing EVE, ESO

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  • NobleNerdNobleNerd Member UncommonPosts: 759
    Originally posted by Dreamo84
    So don't play it, problem solved.

    This is true

    AND

    By the looks of the population on the servers this is how many answered Trion recently with all the log in issues and exploit/hack land grabs with the Auroria launch.


This discussion has been closed.