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Archeage funny p2w video.
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Nah, you gave them theretically equal (by fair market values, ideally) exchange. Meanwhile they're paying for in-game gold from you for them use to win.
Let's take two people who have the same amount of play time starting from the same point.
Player A uses cash as well and Player B does not. Both are in "Normal Gear". Upgrading to "Medium Gear" requires Archaeum, which is easiest to just buy from the market place thanks to the tree saplings from the cash shop (because the in-game drop rate is terrible)
Player A buys Apex with RL money, uses it to get Archaeum from Archaeum saplings, uses that to make Medium Gear, and and also spends 10 hours getting the gold to get halfway towards making the next tier, "Super Gear".
Player B meanwhile spends the same 10 hours getting the gold to buy Archaeum from Player A. He then uses that gold to make "Medium Gear"
Player A uses that gold he got from Player B to finish his "Super Gear"
Now Player A has "Super Gear" and Player B only has "Medium Gear". Keep repeating this and by the time Player B has Super Gear, Player A will have the next tier or even better.
Then Player A (and friends. You still need to socialize, cash or not) meets Player B (and friends) in a castle siege and wins the castle because of it. Now Player A gets taxes to go towards making the next tier of gear while Player B does not. The next time they meet, it's on the open world where Player A is attacking B for trade packs. Player B and friends, despite outnumbering Player A's group, has no chance whatsoever due to Player A's equipment being FAR better at this point. Player A takes the trade pack and now gets the gold from it while Player B only gets a fraction when Player A turns it in. Player A thus gets even farther ahead than before
Meanwhile Player B still needs to earn gold to buy materials for the next tier up while Player A doesn't because Player A either buys it from the cash shop directly or gets the gold to buy it from selling Player B items from the cash shop. (Player B meanwhile can't really sell anything of note because Thunderstruck Trees and Archaem are so cheap that only getting them from the cash shop can get them in enough quantities to make a decent amount of money now. Player B can spend an entire day hunting down trees for one Thunderstruck Tree that sells for a pathetic 200 gold while Player A gets those trees in bulk from the cash shop and thus can sell 10 for 2,000)
Likely this. Really, without knowing how much the other guy paid, the fact that the first payer lost proves nothing. Odds are pretty darn good the other guy paid a LOT though unless you're really crazy enough to believe he got equipment equivalent to the insane equipment of the paying guy without paying a lot.
Except theres one big thing you are missing. And this is the problem with people trying to make Pay 2 Win arguments, when they dont even play the game. Somewhere along the line, in your "research", the bandwagon you jumped on forgot to tell you that Archeum trees are NOT just cash shop items. The trees are sold in game, with in game currency (gildas, not gold) or very very cheap on the AH for gold. So there is no reason for Player B to buy Apex to get credits and therefore wont be supporting Player A to upgrade his gear.
Player A upgrades from the cash shop at the same rate Player B upgrades from ingame, and they are still on equal footing. The rest of your argument is therefore wrong, based on misinformation and not facts. Seriously, 5 minutes of your own research, or 5 minutes of actually playing the game yourself, and you would have known you were wrong. Next time find a more informed bandwagon to jump on, this one just crashed.
Don't like AA? Don't play it...
I don't but neither do I give a single F#$*@ about its business model.
Those constantly complaining about games and how they suck because of this or that should take that energy and be more active in making petitions against the evil companies because it's rather tedious reading it Ad Nauseum here (hence why I don't post much anymore).
Discussions can be had about said games and said features/business models that are liked/disliked. Constructive criticisms also, however, when threads devolve into attacks and condescension, that's just sad and it reveals what those posters truly are.
To the P2W topic, I've said it before. It doesn't bother me as long as I am enjoying the game and (being an intelligent grown-up) know what the CS or F2P nature of the game entails.
YOu don't need an advantage to be paying to win... The guy who gets gold and buys apex by playing the game is not paying to win, the guy who buys currency and uses it to get by is paying to win, it's a rather simple concept.
It doesn't make a game bad, it doesn't make the player a bad-guy, it's a simple matter of letting folks get somewhere in the game without actually earning it through playing. No reason to split hairs, or go out of your way to defend something like this.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Sad story bro
Very funny video , "fcken paaaay , credit card opppppaaaaannn " love it , nice one.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
Wrong. Player A not only pays for the game, but plays the game too. Therefore he gets upgrades from the cash shop AND from the game. Your assumption that Player A isn't also playing the game is just nonsense.
If you spent your time doing any research, you'd find out that all those guys that proclaim in game that they spent thousands also play the game like crazy too. What, you think all the money they get from taking other peoples' trade packs or from their own farms isn't going to also buy them upgrades in addition to their cash shop purchases? Do you think they AREN'T going to build their own fishing boats with thunderstruck trees from archaeum saplings they brought to ALSO fish in addition to selling others thunderstruck trees from the cash shop saplings or something?
Think you are wrong buddy about what P2W is.
P2W = been able to buy gear, weapons.etc that will make it impossible for the other character to beat you in any aspect of the game. ( PvP , PvE : weapons, gear, potion with extra stats)
Leveling is not something that is P2W, it change nothing if you level faster then anyone else. At the end of the day once you complete the content the others did you will still be able to have the same thing as they do. The only difference is that it will take you longer to acheive it. That is all.
The problem today is that everyone wants to play end game only and because of this they try to include leveling in there P2W scenarios. If that is the case then WoW is P2W also and GW2, etc. because now in WoW you can buy a boost to level 90.
Exactly this. People like Tiamat and Iselin want to broaden the term of P2W. It's always been about being able to buy overpowered gear from the cash shop that allowed you to steamroll non-paying players. Being able to trade cash shop items for gold is NOT pay to win. But Iselin and Tiamat would have you believe it is.
Games like Allods Online and Runes of Magic and most of those copy/pasta browser based games like League of Angels from R2Games are P2W games. AA is not. Just simple as that.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
The end result is the same. Paying players steam roll nonpaying players. Just go on your own Archeage server and ask around. The strongest players in the game killing everyone in the open fields and arenas usually openly proclaim how much they spent (or at least tell their own guild about it, and eventually you find a gulid member who's not afraid to tell others outside the guild)
Whether or not it's because they sold their cash shop items for gold won't change the fact that non-paying Bob is getting slaughtered by Paying-McDuck. It might increase Trion's profits a bit from people who don't realize or care about that and thus stay in the game and keep paying their own amounts to Trion but... that's kinda the point of the business model being like that.
No it hasn't. Those are simply extreme examples of P2W.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You can add me to that list.
Maybe not in all games, but in this one, you can get the best gear with in game gold.
Do you even play this game? I'm assuming you don't. Paying players do not steam roll non paying players.
You can refer to my first post in this very thread on page 1 btw on why the angry korean lost round 1, but won round 2.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
To me it sounds like someone who Pays 2 win trying to redefine what it means to cover up their p2w actions.
If you are going to p2w just be honest like Kooncoon and say it like it is.
Used to play, not anymore. However, I keep up with posts by people playing the game and many have talked about how they were killed by guilds of people who openly said they paid a lot (or had friends that they told about their spending and those friends told others, in a few cases), despite how those guilds were outnumbered. It's your word vs their's but honestly I'm more inclined to believe their words for various reasons.
As for your post on why the video is faulty, again, even if you're right (not saying whether you are or not), it doesn't change what's currently going on in-game regarding paying players vs non-paying (non-whales, to be specific)
Actually compiled all the stats into totals just to show how small the difference between Delphinad armor(what you call the best gear in game) and Serpentine armor(just dungeon loot) is.
Assuming Unique quality for all, and i did this for cloth set for both as well(used Delphinad Lake set as it had identical stats to the Serpentine armor)
Delphinad Lake Cloth armor set totals to: 846def 4264mdef 390stamina 259intellect 23lunagem slots
4* Bonus: Increases health by +631. 7* Bonus: Increases magic attack by 10.8%.
Shadowsong cloth armor set totals to: 720def 3605mdef 302stamina 253intellect 23lunagem slots
3* Bonus: Increases intelligence +20. 5* Bonus: Increases magic attack +15. 7* Bonus: Has a chance to summon Shadow of Darkness on hit when health drops below 20%. Absorbs all damage for 3 seconds, then increases received healing +100% for 7 seconds. Cooldown: 2 min
Difference Delph-Shadowsong: 126def 659mdef 88stamina 6intellect 0
So Delphinad has 126 more defense which is negligible. 659 more magic defense, which is equivalent to about 1% reduced damage taken from magic attacks, so barely any difference. 88 stam is less than 1k health, something like 700 health. Delphinad has 6 more intellect, but when factoring in set bonuses, it actually as 14 LESS intellect. And both have the same lunagem slots.
Now, With Delphinad set, you'll have roughly 1300 more hp(set bonus + extra stam), negligible more def, take about 1% less damage from magic attacks(so not much difference) and deal a bit more damage via the 7* bonus. On the flipside, Shadowsong has a chance to summon a shield that absorbs all damage for 3 seconds and increases your healing received by 100% for 7 seconds when your health dips below 20%.
So can we please stop saying paying players will steamroll non paying players. Seriously if you don't play the game, stop parroting people who also don't play the game. The difference is stats is barely even noticeable.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
What about regrades? Don't those apply to Serp as well? (unless something changed with game mechanics that I don't know about). Whether you use Serp or Delph, regrades make a huge difference, and those are primarily only within the reach of the super-rich casher too (the play time needed on average to get the gold to get enough regrades to succeed, on average, for the highest tiers is.... not pretty)
(again, it's possible something changed about the item system that I'm not aware of, but... I'd be surprised. It'd be utterly moronic of any whaling company looking for profits to not have regrades make a huge difference)
Regrades certainly do apply to Serp as well. But even if you have one player decked out in full Divine, and another in just Uniques, the difference in stats isn't as monumental as some of you are making it out to be. Like take Serp chest(since chests have the largest amount of stats). The difference in stam from Divine Serp to Unique Serp is 12 stam. That's about 100 hp. It's a laughable difference. It's no different between the difference between Serpentine gear and Delphinad.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
What's the total stat difference (of every stat) for a full set of Divine Serp vs Unique?
Full Divine Serp - Full Unique
144def 722mdef 42stam 37int 14lunagem
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
One of the biggest factors that no one seems to want to address here is the time it takes to get this gear And then, what the Whales are doing to use that time. Almost every one of these gear comparison posts assumes that one person stays idle and doesn't seek to improve, while the other is off grinding hours and hours in oder to get a certain gear set. But that's not how it works. Both people are bettering their gear.
In other words, by the time the player gets his gear through grinding, this comparison will be out dated since the whale has also gotten upgrades.
Totally of topic but people of intellect didn't actually think the world was flat. Link.
Hmm... interesting. What about full divine Delph vs Unique Serp?
Have they changed the Lunagem system? Those are soooo much easier with the cash shop (since their success rate enhancers are also there). What about full divine Delph (or Serp. Whichever is better at this point) with full optimal lunagems vs... whatever the typical amount of lunagems a marginally dedicated nonpaying player would have? (although I dunno the success rate of luna socketting at that high a point. Maybe whatever you think someone would be able to get with around $2,500 spent since that's how much the guys I knew would spend on a weapon in other games... more if they were drunk... seriously)
So.... yea, TL;DR: What about full divine Deplh or Serp (whichever is better) with around 14 Lunagem sockets (or less if you think $2,500 or so won't get that) vs Unique Serp with only around... 4 (I think that's what most nonpaying people settle at these days?)