sooner or later you will see a DA MMO, there is money to be made starting from pre-alpha through launch and beyond...I hope it's not as boring as ESO, with annoying weapon swap, limited in so many ways that is unreal; you can have a huge world fro the player to explore, but classes and gameplay IS everything!
Would I play DAO the MMO? Why should I when I could play Lord of the Rings or ESO? Sure make a few DAO fans happy for a couple months, until they forget about it and start clamoring for a Guardians of the Galaxy MMO. Now that would make a great MMO. Its got Lore, a Huge Universe and a Big Fan base, and well, we will make it play just like every other MMO out there because you will give us your money no matter what we make!
Thats the point here. Put the name of any big franchise in this author's article and you can say the same thing.
How in any way does any of that lead to an extraordinary MMO? ( or even a great one! )
And you are saying that no one thinks SWToR is a great mmo? I bet there are people who would disagree. Their idea of what might make a "great" mmo might be different than yours.
I get why people might hate Star Wars the Old Republic. Especially those who don't think story belongs in an mmo. However, I personally know people who adore it. But they aren't hampered by being MMO vets or having played any of the earlier mmo's and solely take it on its own merit.
And they absolutely love it!
So why wouldn't the same type of mmo treatment "not" work for a fantasy world? It might not be what you and others like but quite frankly SWToR's treatment of story is, in my opinion one of the best. Now one could argue that story doesn't belong there but "oh Well!!!!" it's there. It's been done and people are enjoying themselves despite what others think.
There are people running around in WoW right now going for the !'s and the ?'s and there are people running around LOTRO right now going for the glowing Rings above the quests giver's heads. So clearly there is room for replicating a certain type of mmo style for another "world".
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
And I can give 5 reasons why DA would make a horrible MMO.
1. Bioware / EA
2. The lore sucks.
3. The stories suck.
4. The world sucks.
5. The darkspawn are the only notable enemies the franchise has..
Bioware needs to drop DA altogether and pursue another world because they are grasping at straws as far as story and lore for the last 2 installments. The first wasnt even that good either.
Originally posted by sketocafe Hotbar combat isn't a plus for me.
Hotbar combat can be brilliant IF the combat has a lot of depth to which NO game outside of FFXI has shown me,so it just takes a good developer not the TYPE of combat that makes it good.
EVERY single mmorpg i have played is 100% identical,a pile of weak hotbar icons with all about the same,something like .5-2 sec timers,seriously why even bother,it is still as close to SPAM as possible.
Hotbars should have various MEANINGFUL abilities/spells,with timers ranging from perhaps 2-3 at 2 seconds but several more in the range of 10-2minutes or even longer.Then a thoughtful developer could create ways to reset those longer timers by creating player>player combos or perhaps by saving up a sort of points system that gives bonuses to combat skills.Developers are just giving us such rubbish combat systems that people stereotype BAD with tab targeting or hotbar because nobody is doing it justice.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Originally posted by sketocafe Hotbar combat isn't a plus for me.
Hotbar combat can be brilliant IF the combat has a lot of depth to which NO game outside of FFXI has shown me,so it just takes a good developer not the TYPE of combat that makes it good.
EVERY single mmorpg i have played is 100% identical,a pile of weak hotbar icons with all about the same,something like .5-2 sec timers,seriously why even bother,it is still as close to SPAM as possible.
Hotbars should have various MEANINGFUL abilities/spells,with timers ranging from perhaps 2-3 at 2 seconds but several more in the range of 10-2minutes or even longer.Then a thoughtful developer could create ways to reset those longer timers by creating player>player combos or perhaps by saving up a sort of points system that gives bonuses to combat skills.Developers are just giving us such rubbish combat systems that people stereotype BAD with tab targeting or hotbar because nobody is doing it justice.
You make a pretty weak case for the merits of tab-targeting combat by saying that it is bad in every game except for FFXI. But I think I understand what you mean- you are saying it can be implemented in a way that makes combat very strategic right?
Would I play DAO the MMO? Why should I when I could play Lord of the Rings or ESO? Sure make a few DAO fans happy for a couple months, until they forget about it and start clamoring for a Guardians of the Galaxy MMO. Now that would make a great MMO. Its got Lore, a Huge Universe and a Big Fan base, and well, we will make it play just like every other MMO out there because you will give us your money no matter what we make!
Thats the point here. Put the name of any big franchise in this author's article and you can say the same thing.
How in any way does any of that lead to an extraordinary MMO? ( or even a great one! )
And you are saying that no one thinks SWToR is a great mmo? I bet there are people who would disagree. Their idea of what might make a "great" mmo might be different than yours.
I get why people might hate Star Wars the Old Republic. Especially those who don't think story belongs in an mmo. However, I personally know people who adore it. But they aren't hampered by being MMO vets or having played any of the earlier mmo's and solely take it on its own merit.
And they absolutely love it!
So why wouldn't the same type of mmo treatment "not" work for a fantasy world? It might not be what you and others like but quite frankly SWToR's treatment of story is, in my opinion one of the best. Now one could argue that story doesn't belong there but "oh Well!!!!" it's there. It's been done and people are enjoying themselves despite what others think.
There are people running around in WoW right now going for the !'s and the ?'s and there are people running around LOTRO right now going for the glowing Rings above the quests giver's heads. So clearly there is room for replicating a certain type of mmo style for another "world".
Sovrath.
I am sure there are people who think Hello Kitty is a great MMO too! You are completely missing the point here. And for the record I played SWToR for for probably six months and enjoyed it. May go back when I can get the wife a decent gaming computer. I don't understand how people came up with this idea that I have something against SWToR or any other MMO for that matter.
I did find it rather generic and combat focused though. Mainly enjoyed it because it is Star Wars and I like story lines and progression in MMO's.
As for DAO, don't hate it either. Haven't played any of the DA games but was a big Baldur's fan back in the day. But honestly, you know it and I know that if Bioware or any other large game developer decides to make this an MMO it is simply going to be another MMO. Same as the last one, and same as all the others that came before it. At least nothing in the article provides any evidence to the contrary.
Yet here we have someone saying we have the basis for a GREAT MMO here. Well so did all those other games. So I guess if we follow that logic then every MMO based on some IP is automatically great!
Really is that what you are saying here?
I think if you are going to use the word great or any other superlative, then you at least need to show a little innovation or originality, something that is different from all the masses of cookie cutter MMO's that are out currently.
And in this article the author does not describe any aspect or feature that would distinguish it. That is my point.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Bioware already tried their hand at MMORPG... they failed. SWTOR was a bust. I made it to 50 on my sith warrior when it first launched but yeah it just wasn't that great of a game. I wanted to love it but couldn't because it was a fail.
The turd cartoon graphics didn't help its case any. DA Online would have turd cartoon graphics all the same.
Here's what the title of this article should have read.
" 5 reasons why it would be good to make Dragon Age into an MMO "
Unfortunately, the way it is worded makes it sound like if it is made into an MMO it would be great.
I would even accept changing the word would to could. Because any MMO has the possibility.
I think you are confused. The article doesn't say anything at all regarding why it would be good to make a DA mmo, it only talks about underlying reasons why a DA mmo would have the potential to be great.
And while any game has the potential to be great, in DA's case, as the article says, much of the heavy lifting has already been done. It already has the foundations of what is needed for an mmo to really shine.
I don't think the artcle mentions this, but the fact that it is a team based game (similarly to FF) also makes it ripe for mmoification. Many times playing DAI I have thought it would be great if instead of the AI, other people were behind the wheels.
Originally posted by Gruug I remember when people were saying that Bioware would make the best MMO if they made one themed on Star Wars based upon their previous KOTOR single player RPG. How exactly did that turn out? Those same people were extremely critical about SWTOR when it was finally released. What sometimes appears to be a good idea does not always turn out the best in translation. Frankly, just because you can make a good single player RPG experience does not mean that it will translate well into a good MMO.
This is true, but Bioware has almost 3 years of MMO experience now. It's obviously not the same team as the original one, but they've been changing Swtor around with what little resources they have.
I still wouldn't want to see a Dragon Age MMO though, because it would probably end up being a tab-target combat system, a quest-hub-centric themepark, and a F2P cash-shop that is just as bad as Swtor's.
This is true, but Bioware has almost 3 years of MMO experience now. It's obviously not the same team as the original one, but they've been changing Swtor around with what little resources they have.
1. What does "experience" have to do with anything, especially if they don't even have the team with the experience anymore?
2. Does experience help Funcom? Trion? Did it remotely help Firor with ESO? Clearly not.
3. The idea that SWTOR is being turned around is BS. EA has been hiding every number associated with the game for the last 2 years and they only do that with games not doing well to try to hide it from investors. Games that are doing well are announced for the world to see.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Here's what the title of this article should have read.
" 5 reasons why it would be good to make Dragon Age into an MMO "
Unfortunately, the way it is worded makes it sound like if it is made into an MMO it would be great.
I would even accept changing the word would to could. Because any MMO has the possibility.
I think you are confused. The article doesn't say anything at all regarding why it would be good to make a DA mmo, it only talks about underlying reasons why a DA mmo would have the potential to be great.
And while any game has the potential to be great, in DA's case, as the article says, much of the heavy lifting has already been done. It already has the foundations of what is needed for an mmo to really shine.
I don't think the artcle mentions this, but the fact that it is a team based game (similarly to FF) also makes it ripe for mmoification. Many times playing DAI I have thought it would be great if instead of the AI, other people were behind the wheels.
I get confused a lot Yasha. Actually I think the author was confused when he titled his article.
Lets see if they actually attempt this and then I hope you will come back to tell me whether you think they made a "great" MMO or not.
Remember he did not say " it might make a good MMO" ..... he said " it would make a great MMO".
Thats a lot of pressure!
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
I am sure there are people who think Hello Kitty is a great MMO too! You are completely missing the point here.
And in this article the author does not describe any aspect or feature that would distinguish it. That is my point.
I'm not missing the point at all.
I could easily say that SWToR is a great mmo because there are things it does that people love and it does them well.
And yes you are correct, there are people who probably think Hello Kitty is a great mmo. And good for them for thinking it.
SWToR has hundreds of thousands of players and is doing very well. It's successful despite its infamy.
The article lists the reasons Dragon Age would make a great mmo. I don't necessarily think these are wrong (especially because its opinion) but having rich lore a huge world (for a story mmo - regardless of whether one likes it or not) is a start.
As far a a game having to have innovation, well people definitely use that a lot but they usually fail to recognize it when they see it as in their minds it has to be something "new and differnet and never done before" and that's not what innovation is.
Heck, SWToR is innovative just because of how they display story and plot. It's far more immersive than running up to ! and reading some text in a direct over the shoulder camera angle which pretty much spoils any sense of immersion to the scene at hand.
But some people don't recognize that is innovative because in their minds they either don't think story belongs in an mmo (which is fine) or it's not something that hasn't been done before and in single player games; therefore how can it be innovative?
Innovations isn't about blowing people's minds with something that is entirely new and different. It can be about small differences.
Since everyone has their idea of what a great mmo is, I highly doubt that a consensus can rightfully be made.
And I'm not saying that every IP automatically makes for a great mmo. If anything I would say, for example, Lord of the Rings makes for a poor mmo if one was to take the IP at face value.
Let's look at that.
Rich Lore, set factions and conflict, huge world, established fan base. The idea that combat "already plays like an mmo" is a non-factor because we already know that mmo's can have many different types of combat. Heck, you can have an mmo that doesn't have combat.
Yet Lord of the rings is a poor mmo IP because of how the world is set up.
Let's look at Turbine's endeavor.
Hobbits, Dwarves, Elves in spades running around Bree. Or the Golden Wood. Or Helm's deep. Each area should not be grand central station for the races. Heck the whole idea of Lord of the Rings is that the races are all separated, going their own way but there is a meeting of a small group with representatives from each major race to try to stop "the big bad".
Yet the whole mmo world is a mess of everyone everywhere. Including Moria where the dwarves are supposed to have created outposts all throughout the mine once you get there?
There is supposed to be limited magic but Thanks to Jeffrey Stiefel (sp?) he turned the game into a generic fantasy world. Or at least steered it closer to some D&D counterpart.
I think there are ways that Middle Earth could have been turned into a great mmo but the average mmo player would probably cringe at them as they want to be everywhere and do everything. Army of hobbits at helm's deep? Sure! Why not according to the game's developers.
It's just silly.
My thought is that any mmo that has a sizeable following (a few hundred thousand) is probably a great mmo in the landscape of mmo's. With the obvious nod to people thinking Ryzom is a great mmo (for example) just because "they do". Or Hello Kitty.
But it's too difficult to say something is "not" a great mmo if you are going to solely use personal expectations. One has to see what, objectively within the mmo landscape, makes a great mmo.
Because it's extremely silly to have, say, a minority of players decry World of Warcraft when millions of players think it's amazing.
I would say the start of a great mmo is large world, significant lore to build upon and a way that players can get together and interact in some meaningful way (to them). An mmo that attracts a decent size player base and one that can support itself over years.
Off the cuff, that's as objective as I can imagine.
Subjectively? I just want one open world with no quests and ways to explore and fight. But I can't in good conscience say that my subjective view is viable enough to judge an entire genre that doesn't support it.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I am sure there are people who think Hello Kitty is a great MMO too! You are completely missing the point here.
And in this article the author does not describe any aspect or feature that would distinguish it. That is my point.
I'm not missing the point at all.
I could easily say that SWToR is a great mmo because there are things it does that people love and it does them well.
And yes you are correct, there are people who probably think Hello Kitty is a great mmo. And good for them for thinking it.
SWToR has hundreds of thousands of players and is doing very well. It's successful despite its infamy.
The article lists the reasons it would make a great mmo. I don't necessarily think these are wrong (especially because its opinion) but having rich lore a huge world (for a story mmo - regardless of whether one likes it or not) is a start.
As far a a game having to have innovation, well people definitely use that a lot but they usually fail to recognize it when they see it as in their minds it has to be something "new and differnet and never done before" and that's not what innovation is.
Heck, SWToR is innovative just because of how they display story and plot. It's far more immersive than running up to ! and reading some text in a direct over the shoulder camera angle which pretty much spoils any sense of immersion to the scene at hand.
But some people don't recognize that is innovative because in their minds they either don't think story belongs in an mmo (which is fine) or it's not something that hasn't been done before and in single player games; therefore how can it be innovative?
Innovations isn't about blowing people's minds with something that is entirely new and different. It can be about small differences.
Since everyone has their idea of what a great mmo is, I highly doubt that a consensus can rightfully be made.
And I'm not saying that every IP automatically makes for a great mmo. If anything I would say, for example, Lord of the Rings makes for a poor mmo if one was to take the IP at face value.
Let's look at that.
Rich Lore, set factions and conflict, huge world, established fan base. The idea that combat "already plays like an mmo" is a non-factor because we already know that mmo's can have many different types of combat. Heck, you can have an mmo that doesn't have combat.
Yet Lord of the rings is a poor mmo IP because of how the world is set up.
Let's look at Turbine's endeavor.
Hobbits, Dwarves, Elves in spades running around Bree. Or the Golden Wood. Or Helm's deep. Each area should not be grand central station for the races. Heck the whole idea of Lord of the Rings is that the races are all separated, going their own way but there is a meeting of a small group with representatives from each major race to try to stop "the big bad".
Yet the whole mmo world is a mess of everyone everywhere. Including Moria where the dwarves are supposed to have created outposts all throughout the mine once you get there?
There is supposed to be limited magic but Thanks to Jeffrey Stiefel (sp?) he turned the game into a generic fantasy world. Or at least steered it closer to some D&D counterpart.
I think there are ways that Middle Earth could have been turned into a great mmo but the average mmo player would probably cringe at them as they want to be everywhere and do everything. Army of hobbits at helm's deep? Sure! Why not according to the game's developers.
It's just silly.
My thought is that any mmo that has a sizeable following (a few hundred thousand) is probably a great mmo in the landscape of mmo's. With the obvious nod to people thinking Ryzom is a great mmo (for example) just because "they do". Or Hello Kitty.
But it's too difficult to say something is "not" a great mmo if you are going to solely use personal expectations. One has to see what, objectively within the mmo landscape, makes a great mmo.
Because it's extremely silly to have, say, a minority of players decry World of Warcraft when millions of players think it's amazing.
I would say the start of a great mmo is large world, significant lore to build upon and a way that players can get together and interact in some meaningful way (to them). An mmo that attracts a decent size player base and one that can support itself over years.
Off the cuff, that's as objective as I can imagine.
Subjectively? I just want one open world with no quests and ways to explore and fight. But I can't in good conscience say that my subjective view is viable enough to judge an entire genre that doesn't support it.
I think what you have pointed out with LoToR is that there are many ways to mess up in creating an MMO.
To use your example of the different races all inhabiting the entire world, they should have made the game single race playable, and thus all characters could have inhabited their proper territory for a more realistic experience. But of course devs think: Players enjoy being able to play different races and skills therefore we have to make it this way.
So taking a single player game and transferring it to an MMO does not mean it will be similar or even good compared to the original when many design decisions have to be made to appeal to masses of people rather than just a single player.
Again all I am saying is it could make a great MMO and I think you are too. The article in my subjective opinion, is setup to make it look like a DA MMO would be great. That was probably not the intention of it, but I understand how others may look at the article differently than I did.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
I think what you have pointed out with LoToR is that there are many ways to mess up in creating an MMO.
To use your example of the different races all inhabiting the entire world, they should have made the game single race playable, and thus all characters could have inhabited their proper territory for a more realistic experience. But of course devs think: Players enjoy being able to play different races and skills therefore we have to make it this way.
ding ding ding, now you and I are on the same page.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Dragon ages would work fine as the base for an MMO, yes. But honestly are there plenty of good D&D settings that you could license cheap that would be even better:
Ravenloft (license owned by CCP) is an Steampunk horror setting that still have many fans. Unlike the world of DA does it differs a lot from Forgotten realms and Steampunk is rather popular right now.
Dragonlance is one of D&Ds most beloved settings and could make a epic fantasy MMO. Not as popular today is in the 80s and 90s but a good MMO would bring that back first.
Then there is Planescape, an rather odd setting but with almost limitless possibilities (and plenty of thieflings, just love those guys and girls .
Both Dark sun and Starjammers still have some fans as well. Neither is as interesting to me as the ones above though.
These worlds are all far more detailed than Thedas and all of them except maybe Dragonlance is far more different from the MMOs currently around. And that is just the D&D setting (and far from all of them, just the ones I think could work well as MMOs) plenty of other good pen and paper worlds that would make great MMOs. Shadowrun is still my top on my list of MMOs I want to see, preferably with mechanics close to the original system instead of levels.
So I wouldn't mind a DA MMO but there are plenty of more interesting IPs to choose from.
as you can see it reached 79 pages of complaints already in this thread alone - and all are people who cannot play the game at all (like me..)
Yhh... maybe because majority of people dont experience that ? They already made official statement about PC issues and complains and said they are working on patch to fix / adjust things for PC players. What more do you want ?
98% of the people on PC are playing the game just fine. No one in our community have issue with the game, and if they had we found quick fixes for them. Most of the time problem was with Old drivers or Ati cards :P
Go to the bioware technical support forums there are hundreds even thousands of people with problems, what do you think people did when there game started crashing? They updated their ATI cards as recommended by bioware, guess what? It did not help
as you can see it reached 79 pages of complaints already in this thread alone - and all are people who cannot play the game at all (like me..)
I actually had issues with this, myself. I fixed them simply by disabled Origin In-Game in the Origin Settings. Ironic that Origin causes the crashes, but could help you!
I tried disabling overlays from Origin, I read your post about 30 min ago and have disabled Origin and for the first time I have been able to play for longer than 10 min without hard freeze, they need to sticky that in the Bioware forums.
Update: well 5 min later it hard froze again sigh! will I disabled pretty much everything in Origin, upgraded graphics card to 14-11-2 beta driver, tried turning all in game options to low, reinstalled game and direct x, tried playing with mantle instead of direct 11, tried reverting back to old graphic drivers still freezes, I guess I will wait for patch when it comes. thanks anyway Bill for the suggestion.
Here's what the title of this article should have read.
" 5 reasons why it would be good to make Dragon Age into an MMO "
Unfortunately, the way it is worded makes it sound like if it is made into an MMO it would be great.
I would even accept changing the word would to could. Because any MMO has the possibility.
I think you are confused. The article doesn't say anything at all regarding why it would be good to make a DA mmo, it only talks about underlying reasons why a DA mmo would have the potential to be great.
And while any game has the potential to be great, in DA's case, as the article says, much of the heavy lifting has already been done. It already has the foundations of what is needed for an mmo to really shine.
I don't think the artcle mentions this, but the fact that it is a team based game (similarly to FF) also makes it ripe for mmoification. Many times playing DAI I have thought it would be great if instead of the AI, other people were behind the wheels.
I get confused a lot Yasha. Actually I think the author was confused when he titled his article.
Lets see if they actually attempt this and then I hope you will come back to tell me whether you think they made a "great" MMO or not.
Remember he did not say " it might make a good MMO" ..... he said " it would make a great MMO".
Thats a lot of pressure!
Yeah "could" is probably more accurate but there is always hope.
I think ESO is a great mmo (haven't played much swotor, the tab targeting combat put me off, but I have heard its pretty amazing, and people seem to like FF14arr well enough) so I don't see any particular reason to be pessimistic.
Originally posted by ShavaKa They did this with Elder Scrolls, and we saw what happened.
Yep, we got possibly the best mmo on the market at the moment, at least in terms of its questing pve/"WvWvW"-style pvp, graphics and atmosphere.
Being the top turd on a pile of poop doesn't change the fact that you are a turd.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Comments
And you are saying that no one thinks SWToR is a great mmo? I bet there are people who would disagree. Their idea of what might make a "great" mmo might be different than yours.
I get why people might hate Star Wars the Old Republic. Especially those who don't think story belongs in an mmo. However, I personally know people who adore it. But they aren't hampered by being MMO vets or having played any of the earlier mmo's and solely take it on its own merit.
And they absolutely love it!
So why wouldn't the same type of mmo treatment "not" work for a fantasy world? It might not be what you and others like but quite frankly SWToR's treatment of story is, in my opinion one of the best. Now one could argue that story doesn't belong there but "oh Well!!!!" it's there. It's been done and people are enjoying themselves despite what others think.
There are people running around in WoW right now going for the !'s and the ?'s and there are people running around LOTRO right now going for the glowing Rings above the quests giver's heads. So clearly there is room for replicating a certain type of mmo style for another "world".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
And I can give 5 reasons why DA would make a horrible MMO.
1. Bioware / EA
2. The lore sucks.
3. The stories suck.
4. The world sucks.
5. The darkspawn are the only notable enemies the franchise has..
Bioware needs to drop DA altogether and pursue another world because they are grasping at straws as far as story and lore for the last 2 installments. The first wasnt even that good either.
Hotbar combat can be brilliant IF the combat has a lot of depth to which NO game outside of FFXI has shown me,so it just takes a good developer not the TYPE of combat that makes it good.
EVERY single mmorpg i have played is 100% identical,a pile of weak hotbar icons with all about the same,something like .5-2 sec timers,seriously why even bother,it is still as close to SPAM as possible.
Hotbars should have various MEANINGFUL abilities/spells,with timers ranging from perhaps 2-3 at 2 seconds but several more in the range of 10-2minutes or even longer.Then a thoughtful developer could create ways to reset those longer timers by creating player>player combos or perhaps by saving up a sort of points system that gives bonuses to combat skills.Developers are just giving us such rubbish combat systems that people stereotype BAD with tab targeting or hotbar because nobody is doing it justice.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
You make a pretty weak case for the merits of tab-targeting combat by saying that it is bad in every game except for FFXI. But I think I understand what you mean- you are saying it can be implemented in a way that makes combat very strategic right?
Sovrath.
I am sure there are people who think Hello Kitty is a great MMO too! You are completely missing the point here. And for the record I played SWToR for for probably six months and enjoyed it. May go back when I can get the wife a decent gaming computer. I don't understand how people came up with this idea that I have something against SWToR or any other MMO for that matter.
I did find it rather generic and combat focused though. Mainly enjoyed it because it is Star Wars and I like story lines and progression in MMO's.
As for DAO, don't hate it either. Haven't played any of the DA games but was a big Baldur's fan back in the day. But honestly, you know it and I know that if Bioware or any other large game developer decides to make this an MMO it is simply going to be another MMO. Same as the last one, and same as all the others that came before it. At least nothing in the article provides any evidence to the contrary.
Yet here we have someone saying we have the basis for a GREAT MMO here. Well so did all those other games. So I guess if we follow that logic then every MMO based on some IP is automatically great!
Really is that what you are saying here?
I think if you are going to use the word great or any other superlative, then you at least need to show a little innovation or originality, something that is different from all the masses of cookie cutter MMO's that are out currently.
And in this article the author does not describe any aspect or feature that would distinguish it. That is my point.
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For clarification:
Here's what the title of this article should have read.
" 5 reasons why it would be good to make Dragon Age into an MMO "
Unfortunately, the way it is worded makes it sound like if it is made into an MMO it would be great.
I would even accept changing the word would to could. Because any MMO has the possibility.
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Ea is like a poo fingered midas ~ShakyMo
I think you are confused. The article doesn't say anything at all regarding why it would be good to make a DA mmo, it only talks about underlying reasons why a DA mmo would have the potential to be great.
And while any game has the potential to be great, in DA's case, as the article says, much of the heavy lifting has already been done. It already has the foundations of what is needed for an mmo to really shine.
I don't think the artcle mentions this, but the fact that it is a team based game (similarly to FF) also makes it ripe for mmoification. Many times playing DAI I have thought it would be great if instead of the AI, other people were behind the wheels.
This is true, but Bioware has almost 3 years of MMO experience now. It's obviously not the same team as the original one, but they've been changing Swtor around with what little resources they have.
I still wouldn't want to see a Dragon Age MMO though, because it would probably end up being a tab-target combat system, a quest-hub-centric themepark, and a F2P cash-shop that is just as bad as Swtor's.
1. What does "experience" have to do with anything, especially if they don't even have the team with the experience anymore?
2. Does experience help Funcom? Trion? Did it remotely help Firor with ESO? Clearly not.
3. The idea that SWTOR is being turned around is BS. EA has been hiding every number associated with the game for the last 2 years and they only do that with games not doing well to try to hide it from investors. Games that are doing well are announced for the world to see.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
I get confused a lot Yasha. Actually I think the author was confused when he titled his article.
Lets see if they actually attempt this and then I hope you will come back to tell me whether you think they made a "great" MMO or not.
Remember he did not say " it might make a good MMO" ..... he said " it would make a great MMO".
Thats a lot of pressure!
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
I'm not missing the point at all.
I could easily say that SWToR is a great mmo because there are things it does that people love and it does them well.
And yes you are correct, there are people who probably think Hello Kitty is a great mmo. And good for them for thinking it.
SWToR has hundreds of thousands of players and is doing very well. It's successful despite its infamy.
The article lists the reasons Dragon Age would make a great mmo. I don't necessarily think these are wrong (especially because its opinion) but having rich lore a huge world (for a story mmo - regardless of whether one likes it or not) is a start.
As far a a game having to have innovation, well people definitely use that a lot but they usually fail to recognize it when they see it as in their minds it has to be something "new and differnet and never done before" and that's not what innovation is.
Heck, SWToR is innovative just because of how they display story and plot. It's far more immersive than running up to ! and reading some text in a direct over the shoulder camera angle which pretty much spoils any sense of immersion to the scene at hand.
But some people don't recognize that is innovative because in their minds they either don't think story belongs in an mmo (which is fine) or it's not something that hasn't been done before and in single player games; therefore how can it be innovative?
Innovations isn't about blowing people's minds with something that is entirely new and different. It can be about small differences.
Since everyone has their idea of what a great mmo is, I highly doubt that a consensus can rightfully be made.
And I'm not saying that every IP automatically makes for a great mmo. If anything I would say, for example, Lord of the Rings makes for a poor mmo if one was to take the IP at face value.
Let's look at that.
Rich Lore, set factions and conflict, huge world, established fan base. The idea that combat "already plays like an mmo" is a non-factor because we already know that mmo's can have many different types of combat. Heck, you can have an mmo that doesn't have combat.
Yet Lord of the rings is a poor mmo IP because of how the world is set up.
Let's look at Turbine's endeavor.
Hobbits, Dwarves, Elves in spades running around Bree. Or the Golden Wood. Or Helm's deep. Each area should not be grand central station for the races. Heck the whole idea of Lord of the Rings is that the races are all separated, going their own way but there is a meeting of a small group with representatives from each major race to try to stop "the big bad".
Yet the whole mmo world is a mess of everyone everywhere. Including Moria where the dwarves are supposed to have created outposts all throughout the mine once you get there?
There is supposed to be limited magic but Thanks to Jeffrey Stiefel (sp?) he turned the game into a generic fantasy world. Or at least steered it closer to some D&D counterpart.
I think there are ways that Middle Earth could have been turned into a great mmo but the average mmo player would probably cringe at them as they want to be everywhere and do everything. Army of hobbits at helm's deep? Sure! Why not according to the game's developers.
It's just silly.
My thought is that any mmo that has a sizeable following (a few hundred thousand) is probably a great mmo in the landscape of mmo's. With the obvious nod to people thinking Ryzom is a great mmo (for example) just because "they do". Or Hello Kitty.
But it's too difficult to say something is "not" a great mmo if you are going to solely use personal expectations. One has to see what, objectively within the mmo landscape, makes a great mmo.
Because it's extremely silly to have, say, a minority of players decry World of Warcraft when millions of players think it's amazing.
I would say the start of a great mmo is large world, significant lore to build upon and a way that players can get together and interact in some meaningful way (to them). An mmo that attracts a decent size player base and one that can support itself over years.
Off the cuff, that's as objective as I can imagine.
Subjectively? I just want one open world with no quests and ways to explore and fight. But I can't in good conscience say that my subjective view is viable enough to judge an entire genre that doesn't support it.
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Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I think what you have pointed out with LoToR is that there are many ways to mess up in creating an MMO.
To use your example of the different races all inhabiting the entire world, they should have made the game single race playable, and thus all characters could have inhabited their proper territory for a more realistic experience. But of course devs think: Players enjoy being able to play different races and skills therefore we have to make it this way.
So taking a single player game and transferring it to an MMO does not mean it will be similar or even good compared to the original when many design decisions have to be made to appeal to masses of people rather than just a single player.
Again all I am saying is it could make a great MMO and I think you are too. The article in my subjective opinion, is setup to make it look like a DA MMO would be great. That was probably not the intention of it, but I understand how others may look at the article differently than I did.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
ding ding ding, now you and I are on the same page.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Dragon ages would work fine as the base for an MMO, yes. But honestly are there plenty of good D&D settings that you could license cheap that would be even better:
Ravenloft (license owned by CCP) is an Steampunk horror setting that still have many fans. Unlike the world of DA does it differs a lot from Forgotten realms and Steampunk is rather popular right now.
Dragonlance is one of D&Ds most beloved settings and could make a epic fantasy MMO. Not as popular today is in the 80s and 90s but a good MMO would bring that back first.
Then there is Planescape, an rather odd setting but with almost limitless possibilities (and plenty of thieflings, just love those guys and girls
.
Both Dark sun and Starjammers still have some fans as well. Neither is as interesting to me as the ones above though.
These worlds are all far more detailed than Thedas and all of them except maybe Dragonlance is far more different from the MMOs currently around. And that is just the D&D setting (and far from all of them, just the ones I think could work well as MMOs) plenty of other good pen and paper worlds that would make great MMOs. Shadowrun is still my top on my list of MMOs I want to see, preferably with mechanics close to the original system instead of levels.
So I wouldn't mind a DA MMO but there are plenty of more interesting IPs to choose from.
Go to the bioware technical support forums there are hundreds even thousands of people with problems, what do you think people did when there game started crashing? They updated their ATI cards as recommended by bioware, guess what? It did not help
I tried disabling overlays from Origin, I read your post about 30 min ago and have disabled Origin and for the first time I have been able to play for longer than 10 min without hard freeze, they need to sticky that in the Bioware forums.
Update: well 5 min later it hard froze again sigh! will I disabled pretty much everything in Origin, upgraded graphics card to 14-11-2 beta driver, tried turning all in game options to low, reinstalled game and direct x, tried playing with mantle instead of direct 11, tried reverting back to old graphic drivers still freezes, I guess I will wait for patch when it comes. thanks anyway Bill for the suggestion.
Yeah "could" is probably more accurate but there is always hope.
I think ESO is a great mmo (haven't played much swotor, the tab targeting combat put me off, but I have heard its pretty amazing, and people seem to like FF14arr well enough) so I don't see any particular reason to be pessimistic.
Yep, we got possibly the best mmo on the market at the moment, at least in terms of its questing pve/"WvWvW"-style pvp, graphics and atmosphere.
Being the top turd on a pile of poop doesn't change the fact that you are a turd.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Haha, well said.