What is it exactly that makes Trion a great company? Do tell.
Is it their launch readiness? No, they proved they had no clue what they were doing from a technical, communication and support perspective on how to properly launch a game the scale of ArcheAge.
Is it their internal Testing/QA? No, they proved over and over through the brief lifespan of ArcheAge that internal Testing/QA was an afterthought - by their own admission they didn't have a PTR or Test servers up to properly flesh out issues before they went live.
Is it their basic understanding of the game they are publishing? No, they proved they don't understand the mechanics of the game internally... had no clue how the cash shop "free Thunderstruck Trees" would tank the economy (as an example)... had no clue how Auroria Castle claiming worked, or how Castle Sieges worked.. or.. any of the major mechanics of the game actually function.
Is it their player support? It's been months since the game has released, and people are still waiting an average of 7 days to get a response from support. That simply proves that player satisfaction is an afterthought, and they care less about assisting the playerbase to resolve their issues.
So... explain to me... specific to ArcheAge... what exactly is it from a Production perspective that Trion has done "great"? I'm ignoring code based holes in Archeage that allow hacking etc. (as you can trump those up to XL's faulty code).... EVERYTHING that the Producer (Trion) controls specific to ArcheAge has been an utter failure.... the only thing they are "Great" at is demonstrating to other companies what NOT to do when managing an MMO.
Originally posted by Talrune As the title says, and yeah the damage control is not working step down you are sinking a company that had and has a future.
Yet another game consumer that believes he/she can make better business decisions than those that get paid to do so.
Not so much "armchair quarterbacking", but more like "basement executive".
Originally posted by Talrune As the title says, and yeah the damage control is not working step down you are sinking a company that had and has a future.
Yet another game consumer that believes he/she can make better business decisions than those that get paid to do so.
Not so much "armchair quarterbacking", but more like "basement executive".
Either way makes me laugh.
It does not take a Masters in Business to see how poorly mismanaged this game is. This joke of a CEO even made fun of "ragers" during the crappy launch.
But I will tell you like I do all people like you who defend mediocrity based on the qualifications of the person being critical: The next time you get ANY kind of poor service I want you to remember this. Stick to your logic....if someone prepares you food poorly at a restuarant you are not allowed to complain unless you are a professional cook, if someone screws up your car repairs just live with it unless you are a mechanic and could have done better, if you see a terrible movie too bad, unless you can direct. See where I am going with this? Why gamers think these companies are off limits when it comes ot criticism is baffling to me. We are CONSUMERS too.
The real question is: has Trion already made enough money on AA for it to be considered a success?
What if they made enough money off the founder's stuff that they're already profitable? No CEO would step down in that situation. And if they can keep just enough whales, they don't need to care about regular customers, in the business sense. They could still be making quite a good profit through all this turbulence.
The bad PR is a market brand problem, however, and that is hard to quantify. How many customers do they lose for their other games because of the bad PR from AA? And how much is that really costing them?
Originally posted by xenorace Trion did a pretty good job getting those $150 founders packs sold. The whales almost could not hit buy fast enough.
Rift as well sold many NT pack, Trove in coming if they make it big and has tons of room to grow. For Defiance I keep forgetting if there in the room sometimes I think that game maybe not doing so so great atm on bring tons of new people.
Ah yeah forgot to add about If CEO Of Trion Worlds iff needed to so step down if there making tons money thaqts not putting them in the red, and how bad we look at them people we willing still give them money. Look at EA how bad they are on 95% games they bring out, people keep on keep on giving them money.
They are making money with Archeage, why would they want him to step down? Reputation doesn't hurt that badly nowadays it seems so even if Archeage crashes and burns it won't matter as long as Trions bank account grows.
I imagine whales don't give a crap about PR. Pay-to-win is actually a GOOD thing for them too, anyways. (consider that whales make up the majority of an F2P games' income if the game is pursuing the whaling strategy)
Where they might actually care is exploits where people get the same power as them for free. Even then, that likely won't stop them from trying and paying for other Trion games. Trion can always blame XLGames for the shoddy coding anyways.
"The Rift team at Trion Worlds already experienced some losses in the past few months, and now executive producer Scott Hartsman is stepping down."
But (unfortunately), apparently, he came back. I wonder if there's some limit on how many times a CEO can step down before they kick him down there stairs?
After waiting 23 for a response from trion customer support I filed a complaint with the bbb. It was over not receiving a 10% discount in marketplace purchases.
here is trion official response:
"Trion sincerely regrets any inconvenience experienced by the customer. The 10% Marketplace discount was not officially promoted as a benefit as it was never advertised in the ArcheAge purchase flow. As stated previously, due to technical difficulty, the time it would take to implement the 10% Marketplace discount would be too long, causing an unfair delay. The offer of a 10% Credit Pack bonus was determined to be an equitable and comparable solution. Trion does value your feedback, and will address those concerns to the extent possible in future iterations of the game."
Contrary to forum opinion, which , as DMKano rightly observed does not determine if a CEO should step down, I would suggest a raise is in order. He engineered or at least supported the 150 dollar pre-alpha-game is finished-but we just need to translate to English-game package and managed to get many gamers in to a froth falling over themselves to open their wallets. This is a case study and will be repeated by future CEOs how to dupe, er, I mean deliver a quality product to gamers.
In fairness - the $150 I spent on Alpha was probably the most fun in a game i've had in years. Post launch and the introduction of the cash shop is what sucked. Before that, everyone was simply a paying customer with no cash shop or p2w items. It was awesome
He needs to take on XL games head on and renegotiate to get the things that make Trion a great company into archeage
This! Honestly, I'd like to see him cut AA loose. Eat the loss in order to salvage Trion's reputation.
Sometimes it's better to eat a loss then try to make something work that's been consistently broken.
The assumption is wrong.
AA is not a loss - the total cost of Trion localizing the game was probably less than 2mil - they have made that money back via Alpha pack sales - so everything afterwards was pure profits.
Also if reputation had any meaning for game publishers EA would have been bankrupt years ago as having been voted "the worst company on Earth" - over and over again.
But if you look at EAs financials - they are more profitable than ever.
So the reality is - reputation for game publishers has zero actual relation to their profits and game sales.
Gamers are very fickle - they can curse you today and love you tomorrow - reputation means diddly squat - ask NcSoft, SoE, EA and Trion heh.
You fail to include the amount that Trion pays XL for publishing rights. We will probably never know what that is.
He needs to take on XL games head on and renegotiate to get the things that make Trion a great company into archeage
This! Honestly, I'd like to see him cut AA loose. Eat the loss in order to salvage Trion's reputation.
Sometimes it's better to eat a loss then try to make something work that's been consistently broken.
The assumption is wrong.
AA is not a loss - the total cost of Trion localizing the game was probably less than 2mil - they have made that money back via Alpha pack sales - so everything afterwards was pure profits.
Also if reputation had any meaning for game publishers EA would have been bankrupt years ago as having been voted "the worst company on Earth" - over and over again.
But if you look at EAs financials - they are more profitable than ever.
So the reality is - reputation for game publishers has zero actual relation to their profits and game sales.
Gamers are very fickle - they can curse you today and love you tomorrow - reputation means diddly squat - ask NcSoft, SoE, EA and Trion heh.
So his assumption is wrong because your "probably less than 2mil" is a fact.
I saw you coming up with that kind of your own logic numerous times when you came to defend Trion.
-someone else's opinion was wrong because your opinion was right
-someone's opinion was wrong because your guessed numbers had to be right
-someone's estimated numbers were wrong because your estimated numbers were right
and such spins.
tip: when blindly defending anything Trion, try to bring some actual FACTS to the table now and then. Perhaps that would help to actually counter some critics and at the end of the day you wouldn't have to defend Trion that much altogether.
Both Rift and AA are a mess now . I gave up Rift because of the unified gear which would have forced me to do extensive pve to get anywhere when I mostly did PVP prior to that . AA I wouldn't play because of the land grab and all the bots . So the two games if you asked me earlier this year that I would be playing mostly in 2015 have lost my interest . Well done Trion .
I suspect the CEO of Trion Worlds will be forced to step down soon anyway because they are going to lose a lot of players in the coming year .
He needs to take on XL games head on and renegotiate to get the things that make Trion a great company into archeage
This! Honestly, I'd like to see him cut AA loose. Eat the loss in order to salvage Trion's reputation.
Sometimes it's better to eat a loss then try to make something work that's been consistently broken.
The assumption is wrong.
AA is not a loss - the total cost of Trion localizing the game was probably less than 2mil - they have made that money back via Alpha pack sales - so everything afterwards was pure profits.
Also if reputation had any meaning for game publishers EA would have been bankrupt years ago as having been voted "the worst company on Earth" - over and over again.
But if you look at EAs financials - they are more profitable than ever.
So the reality is - reputation for game publishers has zero actual relation to their profits and game sales.
Gamers are very fickle - they can curse you today and love you tomorrow - reputation means diddly squat - ask NcSoft, SoE, EA and Trion heh.
You're not wrong. Actually, I'd go as far as to say that gamers want to be so edgy that they just want to hate everything mainstream, hence the majority of our "credible" gaming commentary comes from angsty teens and people picking up garbage on Thursday mornings and recording angry YouTube videos using fake New York accents on Thursday afternoons.
In the end, though, as the Publisher, if you can't get timely responses from your developer, then maybe it's better just to kill it? Although you end up screwing all your alpha and beta backers, I suppose.
Originally posted by Talrune As the title says, and yeah the damage control is not working step down you are sinking a company that had and has a future.
yep, because that's hoW CEOs are made. the internet votes em, and when we don't like em, we make em go.
only valid way to get a business running
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
I dont know... It all depends on the situation, imagine this... Trion is not making much profit so they look to find a finished game they can publish since they have an infrastructure to support it. They find Archeage and think it is a good product. They think they can launch it in the west with very minimal support and let XLgames handle the tech stuff. It goes and suddenly Trion finds out that publishing with minimal support is not going to work. There is a language barrier when working with XL, XL wants to push out updates and get all versions of their game to the same level so they dont have to support multiple versions and the demand for the game was greater than expected.
I dont think Trion is to blame for all of it but I do feel they are to blame for some of it.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
Comments
WRONG! Trion's CEO needs to step up, not down!
He needs to take on XL games head on and renegotiate to get the things that make Trion a great company into archeage
What is it exactly that makes Trion a great company? Do tell.
Is it their launch readiness? No, they proved they had no clue what they were doing from a technical, communication and support perspective on how to properly launch a game the scale of ArcheAge.
Is it their internal Testing/QA? No, they proved over and over through the brief lifespan of ArcheAge that internal Testing/QA was an afterthought - by their own admission they didn't have a PTR or Test servers up to properly flesh out issues before they went live.
Is it their basic understanding of the game they are publishing? No, they proved they don't understand the mechanics of the game internally... had no clue how the cash shop "free Thunderstruck Trees" would tank the economy (as an example)... had no clue how Auroria Castle claiming worked, or how Castle Sieges worked.. or.. any of the major mechanics of the game actually function.
Is it their player support? It's been months since the game has released, and people are still waiting an average of 7 days to get a response from support. That simply proves that player satisfaction is an afterthought, and they care less about assisting the playerbase to resolve their issues.
So... explain to me... specific to ArcheAge... what exactly is it from a Production perspective that Trion has done "great"? I'm ignoring code based holes in Archeage that allow hacking etc. (as you can trump those up to XL's faulty code).... EVERYTHING that the Producer (Trion) controls specific to ArcheAge has been an utter failure.... the only thing they are "Great" at is demonstrating to other companies what NOT to do when managing an MMO.
S.C.I.F.I
<Sights, Clouded, In, False, Illusions>
Yet another game consumer that believes he/she can make better business decisions than those that get paid to do so.
Not so much "armchair quarterbacking", but more like "basement executive".
Either way makes me laugh.
It does not take a Masters in Business to see how poorly mismanaged this game is. This joke of a CEO even made fun of "ragers" during the crappy launch.
But I will tell you like I do all people like you who defend mediocrity based on the qualifications of the person being critical: The next time you get ANY kind of poor service I want you to remember this. Stick to your logic....if someone prepares you food poorly at a restuarant you are not allowed to complain unless you are a professional cook, if someone screws up your car repairs just live with it unless you are a mechanic and could have done better, if you see a terrible movie too bad, unless you can direct. See where I am going with this? Why gamers think these companies are off limits when it comes ot criticism is baffling to me. We are CONSUMERS too.
haha presto!
The real question is: has Trion already made enough money on AA for it to be considered a success?
What if they made enough money off the founder's stuff that they're already profitable? No CEO would step down in that situation. And if they can keep just enough whales, they don't need to care about regular customers, in the business sense. They could still be making quite a good profit through all this turbulence.
The bad PR is a market brand problem, however, and that is hard to quantify. How many customers do they lose for their other games because of the bad PR from AA? And how much is that really costing them?
------------
2025: 48 years on the Net.
Rift as well sold many NT pack, Trove in coming if they make it big and has tons of room to grow. For Defiance I keep forgetting if there in the room sometimes I think that game maybe not doing so so great atm on bring tons of new people.
Ah yeah forgot to add about If CEO Of Trion Worlds iff needed to so step down if there making tons money thaqts not putting them in the red, and how bad we look at them people we willing still give them money. Look at EA how bad they are on 95% games they bring out, people keep on keep on giving them money.
I imagine whales don't give a crap about PR. Pay-to-win is actually a GOOD thing for them too, anyways. (consider that whales make up the majority of an F2P games' income if the game is pursuing the whaling strategy)
Where they might actually care is exploits where people get the same power as them for free. Even then, that likely won't stop them from trying and paying for other Trion games. Trion can always blame XLGames for the shoddy coding anyways.
He already did. Once.
From 2013:
http://www.gamebreaker.tv/news-main/mmorpg/scott-hartsman-leaving-trion-worlds/
"The Rift team at Trion Worlds already experienced some losses in the past few months, and now executive producer Scott Hartsman is stepping down."
But (unfortunately), apparently, he came back. I wonder if there's some limit on how many times a CEO can step down before they kick him down there stairs?
After waiting 23 for a response from trion customer support I filed a complaint with the bbb. It was over not receiving a 10% discount in marketplace purchases.
here is trion official response:
"Trion sincerely regrets any inconvenience experienced by the customer. The 10% Marketplace discount was not officially promoted as a benefit as it was never advertised in the ArcheAge purchase flow. As stated previously, due to technical difficulty, the time it would take to implement the 10% Marketplace discount would be too long, causing an unfair delay. The offer of a 10% Credit Pack bonus was determined to be an equitable and comparable solution. Trion does value your feedback, and will address those concerns to the extent possible in future iterations of the game."
Heres the context: https://goldengate.app.bbb.org/complaint/view/57305973/c/376j2n
Contrary to forum opinion, which , as DMKano rightly observed does not determine if a CEO should step down, I would suggest a raise is in order. He engineered or at least supported the 150 dollar pre-alpha-game is finished-but we just need to translate to English-game package and managed to get many gamers in to a froth falling over themselves to open their wallets. This is a case study and will be repeated by future CEOs how to dupe, er, I mean deliver a quality product to gamers.
This! Honestly, I'd like to see him cut AA loose. Eat the loss in order to salvage Trion's reputation.
Sometimes it's better to eat a loss then try to make something work that's been consistently broken.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
You fail to include the amount that Trion pays XL for publishing rights. We will probably never know what that is.
So his assumption is wrong because your "probably less than 2mil" is a fact.
I saw you coming up with that kind of your own logic numerous times when you came to defend Trion.
-someone else's opinion was wrong because your opinion was right
-someone's opinion was wrong because your guessed numbers had to be right
-someone's estimated numbers were wrong because your estimated numbers were right
and such spins.
tip: when blindly defending anything Trion, try to bring some actual FACTS to the table now and then. Perhaps that would help to actually counter some critics and at the end of the day you wouldn't have to defend Trion that much altogether.
Both Rift and AA are a mess now . I gave up Rift because of the unified gear which would have forced me to do extensive pve to get anywhere when I mostly did PVP prior to that . AA I wouldn't play because of the land grab and all the bots . So the two games if you asked me earlier this year that I would be playing mostly in 2015 have lost my interest . Well done Trion .
I suspect the CEO of Trion Worlds will be forced to step down soon anyway because they are going to lose a lot of players in the coming year .
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
You're not wrong. Actually, I'd go as far as to say that gamers want to be so edgy that they just want to hate everything mainstream, hence the majority of our "credible" gaming commentary comes from angsty teens and people picking up garbage on Thursday mornings and recording angry YouTube videos using fake New York accents on Thursday afternoons.
In the end, though, as the Publisher, if you can't get timely responses from your developer, then maybe it's better just to kill it? Although you end up screwing all your alpha and beta backers, I suppose.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
IT certainly is their fault for entering into a contract without doing their due-diligence.
yep, because that's hoW CEOs are made. the internet votes em, and when we don't like em, we make em go.
only valid way to get a business running
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
I dont know... It all depends on the situation, imagine this... Trion is not making much profit so they look to find a finished game they can publish since they have an infrastructure to support it. They find Archeage and think it is a good product. They think they can launch it in the west with very minimal support and let XLgames handle the tech stuff. It goes and suddenly Trion finds out that publishing with minimal support is not going to work. There is a language barrier when working with XL, XL wants to push out updates and get all versions of their game to the same level so they dont have to support multiple versions and the demand for the game was greater than expected.
I dont think Trion is to blame for all of it but I do feel they are to blame for some of it.
It sure would be if you had any way of proving that was true, and not just a baseless accusation.
Go internet go!!
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!