I think some of the guys on this thread are just baiting others for reactions but I am going to ignore that.
I own wasteland 2, divinity original sin and this war of mine all of which are excellent crowd funded games and honestly probably my faveourite games.
Don't get me wrong, I also like stuff like dragon age but for the price and gameplay, I don't find ea games worth it.
I also plan on buying satellite reign as a syndicate wars fan, pillars of eternity as a baldurs gate fan, grim dawn as a diablo fan looking for a non dumbed down version and ofc the new planescape torment as a planescape torment fan.
Honestly, if I had to list my fave games of all time it would include games like syndicate wars, baldurs gate, nwn 2 but I would only list dragon age 1 and mass effect 2 as games that I liked but not loved.
The character building is too simple in games like dragon age and mass effect but I can understand that Bioware stopped making complex rpgs and the complex rpg genre died out for a period of 10 years when bioware left.
I am just happy to be playing games of the calibre of baldurs gate 2 and syndicate wars again. This wouldn't have happened without kickstarter.
If I am completely honest, the majority of games that I buy nowadays are kickstarter games with the exception of rome total war 2 but I understand there is a kickstarter funded version called crusader kings now so in future I might even switch over to that.
ps I didn't even bother buying dragon age 3 and wont bother with mass effect 3 or 4 because I will be playing pillars of eternity and planescape torment 2 instead which will be more complex character building games with more adult themes with a longer play time at a cheaper cost.
Anyway, thats my opinion in a nutshell so I love crowd funding. Also to address the elephant in the room, I do not support crowd funding for boob jobs.
Only publisher trolls who want to maintain their greedy claws on developers are bashing crowdfunding and spew their hate on it.
They have a vested interest in badmouthing crowdfund campaigns but THEY will go the way of the Dodo, die out. Become obsolete. Go bankrupt. Become unnecessary, like VHS video or Blockbuster rental stores and beeping dial-up modems. YOU ARE DONE AND YOU KNOW IT.
Does any of the games you mentioned even exist or are you mediating dev speak here? I'm not related to any developer but still cannot stomach cultist propaganda.
Really? I can hardly believe you just asked that question. Are you sure you are even on these forums? Or do you just travel around to all the forums that mention crowd funding and post to them randomly? I ask because if you have to question whether or not these games actually exist, it makes me wonder what rock you've had your head stuck under for the past couple years?
Oh, and I'll just tack on Pillars of Eternity, Shards Online, Torment: ToN, Hex, as a few that are approaching release and I'll tack on Banner Saga as one that is currently in release that has been a critical and commercial success to this point.
I'm only familiar with one or two of those games, honestly. That have fully released. I'm not sure I'd call games that aren't even in alpha/beta or that are still in the concept process "critical and commercial success".
That's the problem I have with the crowdfunded hype train. "The game is a huge success, it's sold so well." When, in reality, there is no game to play yet.
Specifically, Divinity: Original Sin, Banner Saga and Broken Age are all examples of released games which are highly successful. Wasteland 2 is another that I totally forgot about, but also sold well and was a critical success.
Fact is that a large majority of games through Crowd Funding get released. Browse my other KS posts on the forum, I provide actual, real, measured information somewhere. I just don't have the need to prove it again.
You misunderstand my point. You listed 9 games. Only 4 of which have seen a successful launch. You touted the others as being wildly successful games, when they aren't even released yet.
"Fact is" that based on my own experience, coupled with articles I've read, crowd funded games or early-acess/green-light games doesn't usually fully release. A few, yes, have released. However ...
Well, as far as Kickstarter is concerned, when I did my original review of games, I only found a handful which were actually, officially, cancelled. It's really difficult to gauge a game as a success until it is released, but we also can't class that as a failure. It's simply in development.
Actually, here you go, I found something a little more definitive. Here's a reddit list of funded, cancelled games
The list is 21 long. The number of VIDEO GAME projects found through Wikipedia is around 350, but it's also touted as an incomplete list. However, without going any further into the numbers, we can see that the number of video game projects funded far outweighs the number which fail.
Ah there goes that Crazy Canadian going and making sense again. CrazyKanuk gets it - and great job citing actual data instead of "my experience" - peoples experience don't mean jack shit - mined data that shows actual results will trump anyones opinion every time (psychology studies have shown time and again human perception and memory are flawed). What I see in this thread is a bunch of bashing based on misleading data or an incorrect perception of actual data or opinions, going against people with actual data. The only suckers in Crowdfunding are the Crack (oh sorry I mean Game) addicts that can't make proper choices or good decisions. No one forces anyone to buy into crowdfunding - if you don't like it stay away from it. However, actual data shows it's done WAY TOO MUCH GOOD for it to go away. Lastly, the OP's post is very ignorant IMO - anyone who wants to take away public services based on flawed perception or even opinion (I dont agree with this) are real Jerk Faces IMO - let people be and do their thing - it doesn't hurt you as long as you don't have a history of making poor choices - no need to champion causes of discourse that go nowhere except to hurt others.
It is also silly to look at a Steam Game in early access after a year and call it "failed". If it takes a team of 40 devs 2 years to make an RPG, with a $100k budget, doesn't it make a little sense to assume that for an Indie studio it is going to take twice as long? Checking back on a Greenlit game in 1 year is just completely ignorant to the DEV process. Check back in on these studios after 2-3 years in Early Access - if they haven't released or gotten closer to release by then, then you know something might be wrong.
First of all, I never said that the Steam early-access games were a failure. I said that the majority of them haven't yet finished, and the article linked showed that the majority of them haven't been updated regularly if at all.
I'm not saying crowd funding is a bad idea. I'm definitely in support of it for smaller scale projects. Crowd funding in the MMO market has yet to truly be tested, and the first "test" we have is carrying a pretty big weight. A weight so large that it will likely determine the future of most crowd funded MMOs.
I acknowledge that there have been some successes for crowd funded games, I think it's great. However, I refuse to be ignorant to the multitude of games that have yet to deliver on their promises, or delivered a very poor, half-finished product.
For the record, I do know the "facts". There are many many articles both praising the success of crowd funded games, and warning of their (currently) low delivery rate. For reference, here's a link with very easy-to-understand graphs and numbers.
To quote a particularly interesting line from the article:
"The overall results aren’t good – Kickstarted video games from 2009 to 2012 have more outstanding value to backers than they’ve delivered in dollar terms. Cancelled projects have been excluded from this analysis."
This is based on research on a list of games compiled by someone who's tracked the majority of kickerstarter games. Link for reference.
To ignore these facts and run around claiming that crowd funding has ended the "evil reign of evil publishers" is foolish and misleading.
Only publisher trolls who want to maintain their greedy claws on developers are bashing crowdfunding and spew their hate on it.
They have a vested interest in badmouthing crowdfund campaigns but THEY will go the way of the Dodo, die out. Become obsolete. Go bankrupt. Become unnecessary, like VHS video or Blockbuster rental stores and beeping dial-up modems. YOU ARE DONE AND YOU KNOW IT.
Does any of the games you mentioned even exist or are you mediating dev speak here? I'm not related to any developer but still cannot stomach cultist propaganda.
Really? I can hardly believe you just asked that question. Are you sure you are even on these forums? Or do you just travel around to all the forums that mention crowd funding and post to them randomly? I ask because if you have to question whether or not these games actually exist, it makes me wonder what rock you've had your head stuck under for the past couple years?
Oh, and I'll just tack on Pillars of Eternity, Shards Online, Torment: ToN, Hex, as a few that are approaching release and I'll tack on Banner Saga as one that is currently in release that has been a critical and commercial success to this point.
I'm only familiar with one or two of those games, honestly. That have fully released. I'm not sure I'd call games that aren't even in alpha/beta or that are still in the concept process "critical and commercial success".
That's the problem I have with the crowdfunded hype train. "The game is a huge success, it's sold so well." When, in reality, there is no game to play yet.
Specifically, Divinity: Original Sin, Banner Saga and Broken Age are all examples of released games which are highly successful. Wasteland 2 is another that I totally forgot about, but also sold well and was a critical success.
Fact is that a large majority of games through Crowd Funding get released. Browse my other KS posts on the forum, I provide actual, real, measured information somewhere. I just don't have the need to prove it again.
You misunderstand my point. You listed 9 games. Only 4 of which have seen a successful launch. You touted the others as being wildly successful games, when they aren't even released yet.
"Fact is" that based on my own experience, coupled with articles I've read, crowd funded games or early-acess/green-light games doesn't usually fully release. A few, yes, have released. However ...
Well, as far as Kickstarter is concerned, when I did my original review of games, I only found a handful which were actually, officially, cancelled. It's really difficult to gauge a game as a success until it is released, but we also can't class that as a failure. It's simply in development.
Actually, here you go, I found something a little more definitive. Here's a reddit list of funded, cancelled games
The list is 21 long. The number of VIDEO GAME projects found through Wikipedia is around 350, but it's also touted as an incomplete list. However, without going any further into the numbers, we can see that the number of video game projects funded far outweighs the number which fail.
Ah there goes that Crazy Canadian going and making sense again. CrazyKanuk gets it - and great job citing actual data instead of "my experience" - peoples experience don't mean jack shit - mined data that shows actual results will trump anyones opinion every time (psychology studies have shown time and again human perception and memory are flawed). What I see in this thread is a bunch of bashing based on misleading data or an incorrect perception of actual data or opinions, going against people with actual data. The only suckers in Crowdfunding are the Crack (oh sorry I mean Game) addicts that can't make proper choices or good decisions. No one forces anyone to buy into crowdfunding - if you don't like it stay away from it. However, actual data shows it's done WAY TOO MUCH GOOD for it to go away. Lastly, the OP's post is very ignorant IMO - anyone who wants to take away public services based on flawed perception or even opinion (I dont agree with this) are real Jerk Faces IMO - let people be and do their thing - it doesn't hurt you as long as you don't have a history of making poor choices - no need to champion causes of discourse that go nowhere except to hurt others.
It is also silly to look at a Steam Game in early access after a year and call it "failed". If it takes a team of 40 devs 2 years to make an RPG, with a $100k budget, doesn't it make a little sense to assume that for an Indie studio it is going to take twice as long? Checking back on a Greenlit game in 1 year is just completely ignorant to the DEV process. Check back in on these studios after 2-3 years in Early Access - if they haven't released or gotten closer to release by then, then you know something might be wrong.
First of all, I never said that the Steam early-access games were a failure. I said that the majority of them haven't yet finished, and the article linked showed that the majority of them haven't been updated regularly if at all.
I'm not saying crowd funding is a bad idea. I'm definitely in support of it for smaller scale projects. Crowd funding in the MMO market has yet to truly be tested, and the first "test" we have is carrying a pretty big weight. A weight so large that it will likely determine the future of most crowd funded MMOs.
I acknowledge that there have been some successes for crowd funded games, I think it's great. However, I refuse to be ignorant to the multitude of games that have yet to deliver on their promises, or delivered a very poor, half-finished product.
For the record, I do know the "facts". There are many many articles both praising the success of crowd funded games, and warning of their (currently) low delivery rate. For reference, here's a link with very easy-to-understand graphs and numbers.
To quote a particularly interesting line from the article:
"The overall results aren’t good – Kickstarted video games from 2009 to 2012 have more outstanding value to backers than they’ve delivered in dollar terms. Cancelled projects have been excluded from this analysis."
This is based on research on a list of games compiled by someone who's tracked the majority of kickerstarter games. Link for reference.
To ignore these facts and run around claiming that crowd funding has ended the "evil reign of evil publishers" is foolish and misleading.
I actually debunked this very "evidence" once already. If you can figure out how to search through links on here I'm sure you can find my LENGTHY work to show that it's inaccurate. Many of the games cited in this "evidence" have been delivered since writing. Look at the name of the blog itself. I'm sorry, but it doesn't really provide a neutral opinion. I'm not saying that what I provided does either, but what I did provide was a link to a list of games ACTUALLY cancelled. 21. 21 games of a conservative 350, meaning that 95%ish of games are still in some for of development. The only "fact" that we can really rely on is games which have been offically cancelled, can't we? I don't think that's unreasonable. Especially with video games and understanding long development cycles.
I do agree with you, though, that publishers aren't in any sort of trouble. However, crowd funding is where I think that we'll see a lot of innovation come from. Projects with higher risk or a very marginal risk/reward.
I actually debunked this very "evidence" once already. If you can figure out how to search through links on here I'm sure you can find my LENGTHY work to show that it's inaccurate. Many of the games cited in this "evidence" have been delivered since writing. Look at the name of the blog itself. I'm sorry, but it doesn't really provide a neutral opinion. I'm not saying that what I provided does either, but what I did provide was a link to a list of games ACTUALLY cancelled. 21. 21 games of a conservative 350, meaning that 95%ish of games are still in some for of development. The only "fact" that we can really rely on is games which have been offically cancelled, can't we? I don't think that's unreasonable. Especially with video games and understanding long development cycles.
I do agree with you, though, that publishers aren't in any sort of trouble. However, crowd funding is where I think that we'll see a lot of innovation come from. Projects with higher risk or a very marginal risk/reward.
They actually explain that in the article, if you care to read it. And "Cancelled" projects aren't even counted among the quote I provided. It's a statement that, the majority of games that have had "successful" crowd funding through Kickstarter from 09-12 are still in "development" and not released (3-6 years development time). That supporting the point that the "jury is out" on whether or not it's a good or bad thing.
It *is* a neutral article, it cites its sources, reasoning behind the evidence shown, and names the topic based on the findings of the research. It's one of many I've found that all state something very similar. It's not a BAD thing, its just a statement based on findings. Right now, crowd funded games haven't met the "demand" with "supply" yet.
I actually debunked this very "evidence" once already. If you can figure out how to search through links on here I'm sure you can find my LENGTHY work to show that it's inaccurate. Many of the games cited in this "evidence" have been delivered since writing. Look at the name of the blog itself. I'm sorry, but it doesn't really provide a neutral opinion. I'm not saying that what I provided does either, but what I did provide was a link to a list of games ACTUALLY cancelled. 21. 21 games of a conservative 350, meaning that 95%ish of games are still in some for of development. The only "fact" that we can really rely on is games which have been offically cancelled, can't we? I don't think that's unreasonable. Especially with video games and understanding long development cycles.
I do agree with you, though, that publishers aren't in any sort of trouble. However, crowd funding is where I think that we'll see a lot of innovation come from. Projects with higher risk or a very marginal risk/reward.
They actually explain that in the article, if you care to read it. And "Cancelled" projects aren't even counted among the quote I provided. It's a statement that, the majority of games that have had "successful" crowd funding through Kickstarter from 09-12 are still in "development" and not released (3-6 years development time). That supporting the point that the "jury is out" on whether or not it's a good or bad thing.
It *is* a neutral article, it cites its sources, reasoning behind the evidence shown, and names the topic based on the findings of the research. It's one of many I've found that all state something very similar. It's not a BAD thing, its just a statement based on findings. Right now, crowd funded games haven't met the "demand" with "supply" yet.
Ok, before I go any further, I'd be remiss if I didn't also toss in the name Chivalry. Yes, Chivalry. Firstly, it's a Canadian product. Secondly, it only raised 85k. Third, it only sold 1.2 million copies in it's first year. Totally flies under my radar even though I have it on Steam. Being that I'm Canadian myself, I feel terrible I forgot that, but it almost never comes to mind, probably because it is so successful.
Ok, so I obviously hate myself today and decided to simply go ahead and break this spreadsheet back out and re-review it, THANKS!!!!!!
Anyway, of the games on the list, there are currently 85 of 305 which are MIA (So 28% still not shipped). Of those, 8 (versus 5 on my last update) have been cancelled. 7 Others are on Hiatus. These numbers were updated manually based on updates to their Kickstarter projects, including those which simply stated that "We need to take a break" or stuff like that. So that leaves us with 70 titles still in active development. The average time that a game is late 8 months (including early titles). The average time a game is late in the event is actually does ship late is over 10 months. So, basically, when people guess wrong, they're guessing wrong by nearly a year.
So, even if we were to say that every game that isn't delivered today is a lost cause (considering also that games like Pillars of Eternity or star citizen will release without question), that means that there is a 28% failure rate, or less than 1/3. 92 of the released projects were released in 2013, although the data scraping performed by the "apparent" expert occurred over the last weekend of December 2013. Also, he "apparently" reviewed everything manually, but references a data scraper, so whatever, right? Same diff! Anyway, no data scrapers here, I went through each and every individual record manually and also performed deep digging in order to confirm and verify where some evident release (thanks Steam) wasn't out there.
55 of the 218 released projects have been released in 2014. 29 projects (or nearly half of the outstanding projects) were intended to be released in 2014. Given that we know that the average time to release following a missed schedule is over 10 months, I'm hoping that we'll continue to see this release trend into 2015 and hopefully that means that release failure rate will be cut in half. Keep in mind, also, that the project that was delivered the latest was 27 months, so pretty much any of the remaining projects to be shipped would fall within that range.
That's it!! cards on the table. It's obviously not the 95% release rate that I was at, and it's not at the 33% release rate that the other dude was at, but it's around the middle. However, If we were not to consider projects still in active development, 93% of Kickstarter projects are delivered at some point. That takes into consideration projects shipped versus those we know are cancelled or on hiatus (assuming they never go back to them which is probably likely).
Do with it what you like, but MY data is current, compared to this dude's data which is over a year old now.
Just thought I'd throw those links in there so I can search them again in a plain text search, since this topic comes up at least once a week it seems, lol.
Just thought I'd throw those links in there so I can search them again in a plain text search, since this topic comes up at least once a week it seems, lol.
agree - doubt anyone is going to change their existing opinions
Just thought I'd throw those links in there so I can search them again in a plain text search, since this topic comes up at least once a week it seems, lol.
Im shocked the number of 1/3rd of games funded get released. I thought it would have been lower. I wonder of the 1/3rd how many of them do well. I have to say I am really enjoying Banner Saga, I never funded it but GJ to the people who did =-) Best 6 bucks I have spend in a while.
Just thought I'd throw those links in there so I can search them again in a plain text search, since this topic comes up at least once a week it seems, lol.
Im shocked the number of 1/3rd of games funded get released. I thought it would have been lower. I wonder of the 1/3rd how many of them do well. I have to say I am really enjoying Banner Saga, I never funded it but GJ to the people who did =-) Best 6 bucks I have spend in a while.
Oh, that was just for my own sake because I spent a couple hours re-reviewing my own updated spreadsheet of the link provided. Here's my post re: those results. 93% of games that aren't in active development have been released. So only 7% of games are cancelled or on hiatus. Here's my update from the previous page:
---------
Ok, before I go any further, I'd be remiss if I didn't also toss in the name Chivalry. Yes, Chivalry. Firstly, it's a Canadian product. Secondly, it only raised 85k. Third, it only sold 1.2 million copies in it's first year. Totally flies under my radar even though I have it on Steam. Being that I'm Canadian myself, I feel terrible I forgot that, but it almost never comes to mind, probably because it is so successful.
Ok, so I obviously hate myself today and decided to simply go ahead and break this spreadsheet back out and re-review it, THANKS!!!!!!
Anyway, of the games on the list, there are currently 85 of 305 which are MIA (So 28% still not shipped). Of those, 8 (versus 5 on my last update) have been cancelled. 7 Others are on Hiatus. These numbers were updated manually based on updates to their Kickstarter projects, including those which simply stated that "We need to take a break" or stuff like that. So that leaves us with 70 titles still in active development. The average time that a game is late 8 months (including early titles). The average time a game is late in the event is actually does ship late is over 10 months. So, basically, when people guess wrong, they're guessing wrong by nearly a year.
So, even if we were to say that every game that isn't delivered today is a lost cause (considering also that games like Pillars of Eternity or star citizen will release without question), that means that there is a 28% failure rate, or less than 1/3. 92 of the released projects were released in 2013, although the data scraping performed by the "apparent" expert occurred over the last weekend of December 2013. Also, he "apparently" reviewed everything manually, but references a data scraper, so whatever, right? Same diff! Anyway, no data scrapers here, I went through each and every individual record manually and also performed deep digging in order to confirm and verify where some evident release (thanks Steam) wasn't out there.
55 of the 218 released projects have been released in 2014. 29 projects (or nearly half of the outstanding projects) were intended to be released in 2014. Given that we know that the average time to release following a missed schedule is over 10 months, I'm hoping that we'll continue to see this release trend into 2015 and hopefully that means that release failure rate will be cut in half. Keep in mind, also, that the project that was delivered the latest was 27 months, so pretty much any of the remaining projects to be shipped would fall within that range.
That's it!! cards on the table. It's obviously not the 95% release rate that I was at, and it's not at the 33% release rate that the other dude was at, but it's around the middle. However, If we were not to consider projects still in active development, 93% of Kickstarter projects are delivered at some point. That takes into consideration projects shipped versus those we know are cancelled or on hiatus (assuming they never go back to them which is probably likely).
Do with it what you like, but MY data is current, compared to this dude's data which is over a year old now.
Crowd funding is the equivalent of pre-order for indie games. And posters should know what issues that causes, I think just like pre-order it will for now not cause too many issues. But as time goes on it will increasingly became a cause of poorly delivered games.
Fact is we could not have these games any other way so I am not that set against it, but the issues with CF are only going to grow.
Crowd funding is the equivalent of pre-order for indie games. And posters should know what issues that causes, I think just like pre-order it will for now not cause too many issues. But as time goes on it will increasingly became a cause of poorly delivered games.
nah .. it is nothing like pre-ordering. Pre-ordering guarantees the existence of a game, and often you can cancel your pre-order.
Crowd funding is more like paying for a promise with zero guarantee.
Comments
I think some of the guys on this thread are just baiting others for reactions but I am going to ignore that.
I own wasteland 2, divinity original sin and this war of mine all of which are excellent crowd funded games and honestly probably my faveourite games.
Don't get me wrong, I also like stuff like dragon age but for the price and gameplay, I don't find ea games worth it.
I also plan on buying satellite reign as a syndicate wars fan, pillars of eternity as a baldurs gate fan, grim dawn as a diablo fan looking for a non dumbed down version and ofc the new planescape torment as a planescape torment fan.
Honestly, if I had to list my fave games of all time it would include games like syndicate wars, baldurs gate, nwn 2 but I would only list dragon age 1 and mass effect 2 as games that I liked but not loved.
The character building is too simple in games like dragon age and mass effect but I can understand that Bioware stopped making complex rpgs and the complex rpg genre died out for a period of 10 years when bioware left.
I am just happy to be playing games of the calibre of baldurs gate 2 and syndicate wars again. This wouldn't have happened without kickstarter.
If I am completely honest, the majority of games that I buy nowadays are kickstarter games with the exception of rome total war 2 but I understand there is a kickstarter funded version called crusader kings now so in future I might even switch over to that.
ps I didn't even bother buying dragon age 3 and wont bother with mass effect 3 or 4 because I will be playing pillars of eternity and planescape torment 2 instead which will be more complex character building games with more adult themes with a longer play time at a cheaper cost.
Anyway, thats my opinion in a nutshell so I love crowd funding. Also to address the elephant in the room, I do not support crowd funding for boob jobs.
Plenty of people don't spend a dime on KS.
First of all, I never said that the Steam early-access games were a failure. I said that the majority of them haven't yet finished, and the article linked showed that the majority of them haven't been updated regularly if at all.
I'm not saying crowd funding is a bad idea. I'm definitely in support of it for smaller scale projects. Crowd funding in the MMO market has yet to truly be tested, and the first "test" we have is carrying a pretty big weight. A weight so large that it will likely determine the future of most crowd funded MMOs.
I acknowledge that there have been some successes for crowd funded games, I think it's great. However, I refuse to be ignorant to the multitude of games that have yet to deliver on their promises, or delivered a very poor, half-finished product.
For the record, I do know the "facts". There are many many articles both praising the success of crowd funded games, and warning of their (currently) low delivery rate. For reference, here's a link with very easy-to-understand graphs and numbers.
To quote a particularly interesting line from the article:
"The overall results aren’t good – Kickstarted video games from 2009 to 2012 have more outstanding value to backers than they’ve delivered in dollar terms. Cancelled projects have been excluded from this analysis."
This is based on research on a list of games compiled by someone who's tracked the majority of kickerstarter games. Link for reference.
To ignore these facts and run around claiming that crowd funding has ended the "evil reign of evil publishers" is foolish and misleading.
I actually debunked this very "evidence" once already. If you can figure out how to search through links on here I'm sure you can find my LENGTHY work to show that it's inaccurate. Many of the games cited in this "evidence" have been delivered since writing. Look at the name of the blog itself. I'm sorry, but it doesn't really provide a neutral opinion. I'm not saying that what I provided does either, but what I did provide was a link to a list of games ACTUALLY cancelled. 21. 21 games of a conservative 350, meaning that 95%ish of games are still in some for of development. The only "fact" that we can really rely on is games which have been offically cancelled, can't we? I don't think that's unreasonable. Especially with video games and understanding long development cycles.
I do agree with you, though, that publishers aren't in any sort of trouble. However, crowd funding is where I think that we'll see a lot of innovation come from. Projects with higher risk or a very marginal risk/reward.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
They actually explain that in the article, if you care to read it. And "Cancelled" projects aren't even counted among the quote I provided. It's a statement that, the majority of games that have had "successful" crowd funding through Kickstarter from 09-12 are still in "development" and not released (3-6 years development time). That supporting the point that the "jury is out" on whether or not it's a good or bad thing.
It *is* a neutral article, it cites its sources, reasoning behind the evidence shown, and names the topic based on the findings of the research. It's one of many I've found that all state something very similar. It's not a BAD thing, its just a statement based on findings. Right now, crowd funded games haven't met the "demand" with "supply" yet.
Ok, before I go any further, I'd be remiss if I didn't also toss in the name Chivalry. Yes, Chivalry. Firstly, it's a Canadian product. Secondly, it only raised 85k. Third, it only sold 1.2 million copies in it's first year. Totally flies under my radar even though I have it on Steam. Being that I'm Canadian myself, I feel terrible I forgot that, but it almost never comes to mind, probably because it is so successful.
Ok, so I obviously hate myself today and decided to simply go ahead and break this spreadsheet back out and re-review it, THANKS!!!!!!
Anyway, of the games on the list, there are currently 85 of 305 which are MIA (So 28% still not shipped). Of those, 8 (versus 5 on my last update) have been cancelled. 7 Others are on Hiatus. These numbers were updated manually based on updates to their Kickstarter projects, including those which simply stated that "We need to take a break" or stuff like that. So that leaves us with 70 titles still in active development. The average time that a game is late 8 months (including early titles). The average time a game is late in the event is actually does ship late is over 10 months. So, basically, when people guess wrong, they're guessing wrong by nearly a year.
So, even if we were to say that every game that isn't delivered today is a lost cause (considering also that games like Pillars of Eternity or star citizen will release without question), that means that there is a 28% failure rate, or less than 1/3. 92 of the released projects were released in 2013, although the data scraping performed by the "apparent" expert occurred over the last weekend of December 2013. Also, he "apparently" reviewed everything manually, but references a data scraper, so whatever, right? Same diff! Anyway, no data scrapers here, I went through each and every individual record manually and also performed deep digging in order to confirm and verify where some evident release (thanks Steam) wasn't out there.
55 of the 218 released projects have been released in 2014. 29 projects (or nearly half of the outstanding projects) were intended to be released in 2014. Given that we know that the average time to release following a missed schedule is over 10 months, I'm hoping that we'll continue to see this release trend into 2015 and hopefully that means that release failure rate will be cut in half. Keep in mind, also, that the project that was delivered the latest was 27 months, so pretty much any of the remaining projects to be shipped would fall within that range.
That's it!! cards on the table. It's obviously not the 95% release rate that I was at, and it's not at the 33% release rate that the other dude was at, but it's around the middle. However, If we were not to consider projects still in active development, 93% of Kickstarter projects are delivered at some point. That takes into consideration projects shipped versus those we know are cancelled or on hiatus (assuming they never go back to them which is probably likely).
Do with it what you like, but MY data is current, compared to this dude's data which is over a year old now.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
http://evilasahobby.com/
http://www.evilasahobby.com/
Just thought I'd throw those links in there so I can search them again in a plain text search, since this topic comes up at least once a week it seems, lol.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
agree - doubt anyone is going to change their existing opinions
pro or con
EQ2 fan sites
Im shocked the number of 1/3rd of games funded get released. I thought it would have been lower. I wonder of the 1/3rd how many of them do well. I have to say I am really enjoying Banner Saga, I never funded it but GJ to the people who did =-) Best 6 bucks I have spend in a while.
Oh, that was just for my own sake because I spent a couple hours re-reviewing my own updated spreadsheet of the link provided. Here's my post re: those results. 93% of games that aren't in active development have been released. So only 7% of games are cancelled or on hiatus. Here's my update from the previous page:
---------
Ok, before I go any further, I'd be remiss if I didn't also toss in the name Chivalry. Yes, Chivalry. Firstly, it's a Canadian product. Secondly, it only raised 85k. Third, it only sold 1.2 million copies in it's first year. Totally flies under my radar even though I have it on Steam. Being that I'm Canadian myself, I feel terrible I forgot that, but it almost never comes to mind, probably because it is so successful.
Ok, so I obviously hate myself today and decided to simply go ahead and break this spreadsheet back out and re-review it, THANKS!!!!!!
Anyway, of the games on the list, there are currently 85 of 305 which are MIA (So 28% still not shipped). Of those, 8 (versus 5 on my last update) have been cancelled. 7 Others are on Hiatus. These numbers were updated manually based on updates to their Kickstarter projects, including those which simply stated that "We need to take a break" or stuff like that. So that leaves us with 70 titles still in active development. The average time that a game is late 8 months (including early titles). The average time a game is late in the event is actually does ship late is over 10 months. So, basically, when people guess wrong, they're guessing wrong by nearly a year.
So, even if we were to say that every game that isn't delivered today is a lost cause (considering also that games like Pillars of Eternity or star citizen will release without question), that means that there is a 28% failure rate, or less than 1/3. 92 of the released projects were released in 2013, although the data scraping performed by the "apparent" expert occurred over the last weekend of December 2013. Also, he "apparently" reviewed everything manually, but references a data scraper, so whatever, right? Same diff! Anyway, no data scrapers here, I went through each and every individual record manually and also performed deep digging in order to confirm and verify where some evident release (thanks Steam) wasn't out there.
55 of the 218 released projects have been released in 2014. 29 projects (or nearly half of the outstanding projects) were intended to be released in 2014. Given that we know that the average time to release following a missed schedule is over 10 months, I'm hoping that we'll continue to see this release trend into 2015 and hopefully that means that release failure rate will be cut in half. Keep in mind, also, that the project that was delivered the latest was 27 months, so pretty much any of the remaining projects to be shipped would fall within that range.
That's it!! cards on the table. It's obviously not the 95% release rate that I was at, and it's not at the 33% release rate that the other dude was at, but it's around the middle. However, If we were not to consider projects still in active development, 93% of Kickstarter projects are delivered at some point. That takes into consideration projects shipped versus those we know are cancelled or on hiatus (assuming they never go back to them which is probably likely).
Do with it what you like, but MY data is current, compared to this dude's data which is over a year old now.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Crowd funding is the equivalent of pre-order for indie games. And posters should know what issues that causes, I think just like pre-order it will for now not cause too many issues. But as time goes on it will increasingly became a cause of poorly delivered games.
Fact is we could not have these games any other way so I am not that set against it, but the issues with CF are only going to grow.
nah .. it is nothing like pre-ordering. Pre-ordering guarantees the existence of a game, and often you can cancel your pre-order.
Crowd funding is more like paying for a promise with zero guarantee.