Of course games should make political, and even philosophical and societal statements.
Wolfenstein 3D (1992) was already making a "political statement". Movies, music, paintings, photography have made statements forever.
Like movies, games are art and so they must have both mindless entertainment and deep scenarios that make you think or cry.
If I wanted a gaming world that was toasted on arts programmes, discussed by the literati and had a discussion in every review of its 'worthiness' I would agree with you. But what I want is entertainment, it does not have to be mindless; strategy, roleplaying, exploration, construction and so on are welcome.
You can have deep scenarios, be made to think or cry without it being political. But for some stories like Remember Me, a dystopian society is needed. ((In fact where would SciFi be without dystopian societies. ))
But this has not been about whether games can use politics to tell a good story. It has been about if they must have politics in them, go back and read the OP's piece. He sees games as being in isolation and now they must accept politics at every turn. Forcing politics on gamers is pure indoctrination, that's what I stand against.
That's why I said before 'no bans, no quotas'. Social media is allowing people to behave like a baying mob that both shouts down every societal innovation in games and also demand that we must have far more innovation. Do we want a baying mob deciding the future of gaming?
Are you saying there is no political statement associated with dystopian story ? Most of them are about oppressed population abused by an evil government or post apocalyptic world where everyone is trying to destroy those that don't have the same beliefs or side with them. People rise to defeat whatever evil and make the world a better place. The meaning of every story could be different for every person based on personal experiance, but there can easily be political statement in there.
Indeed there is politics with dystopian stories, as I pointed out, but it was the basis of the story. The difference is that there is not a group on social media calling for more games with dystopian societies nor one wanting to see none at all.
There is a difference of having something political which is integral to the story and putting things in to be 'representative' or 'worthy'. Writers in gaming have shown they can be progressive without having Twitter as editor in chief.
Do you have an example of something 'representative' that isn't integral to the story ? A game that have put something in a story, after being pressured by the mass, simply to be 'worthy' ?
I am trying to recall anything like that in all the games I have played but I can't seem to remember any.
Myself I have faith in most writters to have enough integrity to not just put something totally irrelevent in there just because it's asked, worst case, if their boss or customer ask for something, they will make it in a way that will fit the story. If not, well they are simply bad writters.
When buying art, there is 2 ways to go. Buy the premade piece made by the artist according to his vision, or ask for something specific. It is then the choice of said artist to accept to do it or not.
Of course games should make political, and even philosophical and societal statements.
Wolfenstein 3D (1992) was already making a "political statement". Movies, music, paintings, photography have made statements forever.
Like movies, games are art and so they must have both mindless entertainment and deep scenarios that make you think or cry.
If I wanted a gaming world that was toasted on arts programmes, discussed by the literati and had a discussion in every review of its 'worthiness' I would agree with you. But what I want is entertainment, it does not have to be mindless; strategy, roleplaying, exploration, construction and so on are welcome.
You can have deep scenarios, be made to think or cry without it being political. But for some stories like Remember Me, a dystopian society is needed. ((In fact where would SciFi be without dystopian societies. ))
But this has not been about whether games can use politics to tell a good story. It has been about if they must have politics in them, go back and read the OP's piece. He sees games as being in isolation and now they must accept politics at every turn. Forcing politics on gamers is pure indoctrination, that's what I stand against.
That's why I said before 'no bans, no quotas'. Social media is allowing people to behave like a baying mob that both shouts down every societal innovation in games and also demand that we must have far more innovation. Do we want a baying mob deciding the future of gaming?
Are you saying there is no political statement associated with dystopian story ? Most of them are about oppressed population abused by an evil government or post apocalyptic world where everyone is trying to destroy those that don't have the same beliefs or side with them. People rise to defeat whatever evil and make the world a better place. The meaning of every story could be different for every person based on personal experiance, but there can easily be political statement in there.
Indeed there is politics with dystopian stories, as I pointed out, but it was the basis of the story. The difference is that there is not a group on social media calling for more games with dystopian societies nor one wanting to see none at all.
There is a difference of having something political which is integral to the story and putting things in to be 'representative' or 'worthy'. Writers in gaming have shown they can be progressive without having Twitter as editor in chief.
Do you have an example of something 'representative' that isn't integral to the story ? A game that have put something in a story, after being pressured by the mass, simply to be 'worthy' ?
I am trying to recall anything like that in all the games I have played but I can't seem to remember any.
Myself I have faith in most writters to have enough integrity to not just put something totally irrelevent in there just because it's asked, worst case, if their boss or customer ask for something, they will make it in a way that will fit the story. If not, well they are simply bad writters.
When buying art, there is 2 ways to go. Buy the premade piece made by the artist according to his vision, or ask for something specific. It is then the choice of said artist to accept to do it or not.
A lot of this is about perception, something one person would not notice is a signpost to another and visa versa. What I am advocating is hands off. if we don't have people calling for bans or quotas you are bound to get something closer to the artists vision.
A lot of replies I am reading are confusing the word "should" with "could." Could games make political statements? Of course they can. Should EVERY game make a political statement? Not on your life.
These are games, first and foremost, not soapboxes for politicizing.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
A lot of replies I am reading are confusing the word "should" with "could." Could games make political statements? Of course they can. Should EVERY game make a political statement? Not on your life.
These are games, first and foremost, not soapboxes for politicizing.
I doubt anyone is asking for every game to make political statement.
I think the op is more in the sense of : Should games EVER make political statements?
Do you have an example of something 'representative' that isn't integral to the story ? A game that have put something in a story, after being pressured by the mass, simply to be 'worthy' ?
I am trying to recall anything like that in all the games I have played but I can't seem to remember any.
Myself I have faith in most writters to have enough integrity to not just put something totally irrelevent in there just because it's asked, worst case, if their boss or customer ask for something, they will make it in a way that will fit the story. If not, well they are simply bad writters.
When buying art, there is 2 ways to go. Buy the premade piece made by the artist according to his vision, or ask for something specific. It is then the choice of said artist to accept to do it or not.
A lot of this is about perception, something one person would not notice is a signpost to another and visa versa. What I am advocating is hands off. if we don't have people calling for bans or quotas you are bound to get something closer to the artists vision.
I agree that there should be minimal outside influence on writters work, but social media and lobby have been around forever and my point is that so far it didn't seem to have any effect. There have always been pressure on writters and they always have been able to make quality stuff for everyone.
The day I start to see Monsento brand in farmville game I might start worrying.
I've literally gone through this whole article's comment section. Not one single person has agreed on any of your crazy mumble-jumble.
You literally did not because there were 3 direct replies in the first two pages and got enough attention that the writer of the ARTICLE replied to me because it hit a big enough nerve that he even stated that Gamergate is about sexism...wowzers. Cant figure out why people like you feel the need to do things like this. Its almost as if reality is insulting to you so you want to pretend it doesn't exist.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Originally posted by AlBQuirky A lot of replies I am reading are confusing the word "should" with "could." Could games make political statements? Of course they can. Should EVERY game make a political statement? Not on your life. These are games, first and foremost, not soapboxes for politicizing.
I doubt anyone is asking for every game to make political statement.I think the op is more in the sense of : Should games EVER make political statements?
"Should" kind of has an "obligatory" connotation to it.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by AlBQuirky A lot of replies I am reading are confusing the word "should" with "could." Could games make political statements? Of course they can. Should EVERY game make a political statement? Not on your life. These are games, first and foremost, not soapboxes for politicizing.
I doubt anyone is asking for every game to make political statement.
I think the op is more in the sense of : Should games EVER make political statements?
"Should" kind of has an "obligatory" connotation to it.
True, but should and should always are two different things.
Originally posted by Scot I think for those who are putting forward a social agenda 'should' means always. Whether the OP meant that or not that's what they want.
I think you may be right. Look at the reaction to the lack of political statements for the answer
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by Scot I think for those who are putting forward a social agenda 'should' means always. Whether the OP meant that or not that's what they want.
I think you may be right. Look at the reaction to the lack of political statements for the answer
If this thread is any indication, I saw no one asking for every game to make political statement. If there is a social media army with an agenda, they aren't active on this site yet.
Originally posted by Scot I think for those who are putting forward a social agenda 'should' means always. Whether the OP meant that or not that's what they want.
I think you may be right. Look at the reaction to the lack of political statements for the answer
If this thread is any indication, I saw no one asking for every game to make political statement. If there is a social media army with an agenda, they aren't active on this site yet.
I have not seen it on this site, mainly because MMORPG.com is pretty good about keeping politics OFF of the boards. However, self-proclaimed feminazi's (and other groups) sure like to point out "political inequalities" in video games, don't they? Gamer's Gate anyone?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Comments
Do you have an example of something 'representative' that isn't integral to the story ? A game that have put something in a story, after being pressured by the mass, simply to be 'worthy' ?
I am trying to recall anything like that in all the games I have played but I can't seem to remember any.
Myself I have faith in most writters to have enough integrity to not just put something totally irrelevent in there just because it's asked, worst case, if their boss or customer ask for something, they will make it in a way that will fit the story. If not, well they are simply bad writters.
When buying art, there is 2 ways to go. Buy the premade piece made by the artist according to his vision, or ask for something specific. It is then the choice of said artist to accept to do it or not.
A lot of this is about perception, something one person would not notice is a signpost to another and visa versa. What I am advocating is hands off. if we don't have people calling for bans or quotas you are bound to get something closer to the artists vision.
A lot of replies I am reading are confusing the word "should" with "could." Could games make political statements? Of course they can. Should EVERY game make a political statement? Not on your life.
These are games, first and foremost, not soapboxes for politicizing.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I doubt anyone is asking for every game to make political statement.
I think the op is more in the sense of : Should games EVER make political statements?
I agree that there should be minimal outside influence on writters work, but social media and lobby have been around forever and my point is that so far it didn't seem to have any effect. There have always been pressure on writters and they always have been able to make quality stuff for everyone.
The day I start to see Monsento brand in farmville game I might start worrying.
You literally did not because there were 3 direct replies in the first two pages and got enough attention that the writer of the ARTICLE replied to me because it hit a big enough nerve that he even stated that Gamergate is about sexism...wowzers. Cant figure out why people like you feel the need to do things like this. Its almost as if reality is insulting to you so you want to pretend it doesn't exist.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
True, but should and should always are two different things.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
If this thread is any indication, I saw no one asking for every game to make political statement. If there is a social media army with an agenda, they aren't active on this site yet.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Developers should be able to make games however they wish, whether or not they are tightly tied to their beliefs.
Developers should be able to make games from beliefs that inspire them, no matter who may be offended.
IMO, game development is an art form, and art is for expressing yourself.