We're dubbing an MMO champion from a poll conducted by a website viewed by a small percentage of the MMO-playing population, in which the MMO champ made a concerted effort to skew the polls through propaganda on their own website, as if that's an indication of true popularity of the game, despite the fact that it's been universally panned by a large amount of people?
lol...okay.
It is the mmo champion here, not of the universe. Maybe you have some kind of inside knowledge on skewed polls and propaganda, but as a casual forum member here I can believe the outcome of the poll. /shrug
I like where the OP is going with this, as this is a great way to try and actually do something with the outcome of what the members here consider the best.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Let's start with the easy things...i would like to see more mounts,it's pity that there is a lot of armor and weapon customization but we all ride on the same 3-4 different colored horses.At least give us more horses.
P.S.Now that i mentioned weapon customization....also DYES for our weapons,plz!
Originally posted by Viper482 When ESO is "the one MMO to rule them all" it speaks volumes as to the pathetic state of the genre.
No it doesn't. It just means a few more people voted for it and it won a poll.
Here is some news for you: Your favorite mmo game in the future will likely NOT have the majority of players of the genre in it. It may not win any poll ever. That can have NOTHING to do with how good the game is and how it may fulfill your desires. More people voted for it ... that is all. You are not a lesser human for voting for something else. It does not make others voting differently lesser human beings nor the games themselves. Variety is a good thing.
Niche games are popping up all over the place over the next couple years. They will be the favorite game for many but they may never win a best game poll. So be it.
Thank you Captain Obvious.
Yet the state of the genre is still pathetic, and the fact this game can win any poll on an MMO site speaks volumes to me. Just my opinion...as I already stated. I don't need everyone to like my MMO, I don't need to like anyone else's favorite MMO, I don't look down on any person for liking a certain MMO.....so I am not sure where you got that from my post to the point that you are preaching to me here. Save it for church rev.
You simply cannot look past your own bitterness.
The current state of mmos:
Several big themepark mmos with varying mechanics offering solid game play for very large audiences.
A few indie mmos offering niche game play.
Classic mmos still exist. You can STILL play EQ1&2, Asherons's Call, AO, DAoC and many others.
Many indie and new developer mmos being developed from both private and crowd funding because demand for oldschool and original concept development is high. Several are sandbox recognizing the success of EVE and the hole left by SWG's absence.
There are so many mmos that regionalization is required. This means not all games will be targeted at you. Western and Eastern tastes vary wildly at times. Regionalizing something is a reflection of success ... not failure. It is a tool of expansion.
ESO itself may be considered "themepark" but it's development focus is entirely different than most mmos. It is extremely horizontal in nature along with (often different as well) progression. This cannot be ignored. It's focus has always been a translation of the single rpg experience into an mmo. By definition this may not interest you. It does not mean the game sucks. Learn the difference.
Just a few years back there was NO hope of new niche game play returning or created because big industry had a strangle hold on the genre. The current state of the industry is far as positive now as it was in the golden era. The audience is larger and there has to be a larger spectrum of games to support it. This means by definition that many of these games will not interest ALL players.
If you merely post to expose your bitterness while ignoring facts and the bigger picture then your argument is empty.
Originally posted by Viper482 When ESO is "the one MMO to rule them all" it speaks volumes as to the pathetic state of the genre.
No it doesn't. It just means a few more people voted for it and it won a poll.
Here is some news for you: Your favorite mmo game in the future will likely NOT have the majority of players of the genre in it. It may not win any poll ever. That can have NOTHING to do with how good the game is and how it may fulfill your desires. More people voted for it ... that is all. You are not a lesser human for voting for something else. It does not make others voting differently lesser human beings nor the games themselves. Variety is a good thing.
Niche games are popping up all over the place over the next couple years. They will be the favorite game for many but they may never win a best game poll. So be it.
Thank you Captain Obvious.
Yet the state of the genre is still pathetic, and the fact this game can win any poll on an MMO site speaks volumes to me. Just my opinion...as I already stated. I don't need everyone to like my MMO, I don't need to like anyone else's favorite MMO, I don't look down on any person for liking a certain MMO.....so I am not sure where you got that from my post to the point that you are preaching to me here. Save it for church rev.
You simply cannot look past your own bitterness.
The current state of mmos:
Several big themepark mmos with varying mechanics offering solid game play for very large audiences.
A few indie mmos offering niche game play.
Classic mmos still exist. You can STILL play EQ1&2, Asherons's Call, AO, DAoC and many others.
Many indie and new developer mmos being developed from both private and crowd funding because demand for oldschool and original concept development is high. Several are sandbox recognizing the success of EVE and the hole left by SWG's absence.
There are so many mmos that regionalization is required. This means not all games will be targeted at you. Western and Eastern tastes vary wildly at times. Regionalizing something is a reflection of success ... not failure. It is a tool of expansion.
ESO itself may be considered "themepark" but it's development focus is entirely different than most mmos. It is extremely horizontal in nature along with (often different as well) progression. This cannot be ignored. It's focus has always been a translation of the single rpg experience into an mmo. By definition this may not interest you. It does not mean the game sucks. Learn the difference.
Just a few years back there was NO hope of new niche game play returning or created because big industry had a strangle hold on the genre. The current state of the industry is far as positive now as it was in the golden era. The audience is larger and there has to be a larger spectrum of games to support it. This means by definition that many of these games will not interest ALL players.
If you merely post to expose your bitterness while ignoring facts and the bigger picture then your argument is empty.
Not sure if trolling or just doesn't understand what an opinion means
Agreed. "Blah, blah, blah, bitterness, blah blah". Sounds alot like, "You're just mad", or "rustled jimmies", or "triggered".
The vote was in fun on an advertisement site. Granted, it advertises mmos, it also sells mmos it advertises. No matter how seriously you take the content or this vote here, you're playing around on an advertisement site. All we're doing is lining the pockets of the people who own and operate the site, not "getting down to business" on which mmo is best or how to improve the genre. I have a real feeling many of you are caught in an illusion about this.
It starts to be not fun when people take it so seriously. You're screwing it up. Stop it.
Adding the phrase "just my opinion" doesn't make things better. It certainly doesn't improve the view of someone spending all their time trying crap on other people's enjoyment. Don't run around telling everyone that things they like actually suck. It doesn't make them like it less, it just makes you a dick.
Right now it's the best MMO on the market. 1.6 is going to make it even better and fix and add a lot of the things that the community has been asking for. 1.7 will be even better with the full introduction of the Justice System. If there is one thing ZOS does right, it's listen to their players.
Originally posted by Gravarg Right now it's the best MMO on the market. 1.6 is going to make it even better and fix and add a lot of the things that the community has been asking for. 1.7 will be even better with the full introduction of the Justice System. If there is one thing ZOS does right, it's listen to their players.
I think listening to players is a horrible idea. I can't think of a single example of art, music or literature that became a masterpiece because the creator said or did the most popular thing. Worse, once you're caught in that whirlpool, you must continue to do it, treading water to the whim of the current, and honestly, the current is pretty mindless and doesn't have a clue what it really wants.
Originally posted by Gravarg Right now it's the best MMO on the market. 1.6 is going to make it even better and fix and add a lot of the things that the community has been asking for. 1.7 will be even better with the full introduction of the Justice System. If there is one thing ZOS does right, it's listen to their players.
I think listening to players is a horrible idea. I can't think of a single example of art, music or literature that became a masterpiece because the creator said or did the most popular thing. Worse, once you're caught in that whirlpool, you must continue to do it, treading water to the whim of the current, and honestly, the current is pretty mindless and doesn't have a clue what it really wants.
Are you just disagreeing for the sake of argument at this point?
It is like you are a hyperbolic straw man imitation of an actual argument. Yeah, I am sure players hate it when developers listen to them and give them what they want. Dragon Age 2 was the greatest game of all time. Diablo 3 was better while blizzard was still ignoring players. Making Dust 514 console only was an excellent idea.
Originally posted by Viper482 When ESO is "the one MMO to rule them all" it speaks volumes as to the pathetic state of the genre.
No it doesn't. It just means a few more people voted for it and it won a poll.
Here is some news for you: Your favorite mmo game in the future will likely NOT have the majority of players of the genre in it. It may not win any poll ever. That can have NOTHING to do with how good the game is and how it may fulfill your desires. More people voted for it ... that is all. You are not a lesser human for voting for something else. It does not make others voting differently lesser human beings nor the games themselves. Variety is a good thing.
Niche games are popping up all over the place over the next couple years. They will be the favorite game for many but they may never win a best game poll. So be it.
Thank you Captain Obvious.
Yet the state of the genre is still pathetic, and the fact this game can win any poll on an MMO site speaks volumes to me. Just my opinion...as I already stated. I don't need everyone to like my MMO, I don't need to like anyone else's favorite MMO, I don't look down on any person for liking a certain MMO.....so I am not sure where you got that from my post to the point that you are preaching to me here. Save it for church rev.
You simply cannot look past your own bitterness.
The current state of mmos:
Several big themepark mmos with varying mechanics offering solid game play for very large audiences.
A few indie mmos offering niche game play.
Classic mmos still exist. You can STILL play EQ1&2, Asherons's Call, AO, DAoC and many others.
Many indie and new developer mmos being developed from both private and crowd funding because demand for oldschool and original concept development is high. Several are sandbox recognizing the success of EVE and the hole left by SWG's absence.
There are so many mmos that regionalization is required. This means not all games will be targeted at you. Western and Eastern tastes vary wildly at times. Regionalizing something is a reflection of success ... not failure. It is a tool of expansion.
ESO itself may be considered "themepark" but it's development focus is entirely different than most mmos. It is extremely horizontal in nature along with (often different as well) progression. This cannot be ignored. It's focus has always been a translation of the single rpg experience into an mmo. By definition this may not interest you. It does not mean the game sucks. Learn the difference.
Just a few years back there was NO hope of new niche game play returning or created because big industry had a strangle hold on the genre. The current state of the industry is far as positive now as it was in the golden era. The audience is larger and there has to be a larger spectrum of games to support it. This means by definition that many of these games will not interest ALL players.
If you merely post to expose your bitterness while ignoring facts and the bigger picture then your argument is empty.
Not sure if trolling or just doesn't understand what an opinion means
Opinions still have to be based off of something. You have to have some experience in a subject to have an opinion. If based on something invalid, then your opinion is invalid. If your opinion does not change in the face of blatent evidence that you are wrong...it's still an invalid opinion.
More clear to you?
*EDIT - Not bashing Tamanous's post either. Is the post and pre replies I speak of.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Originally posted by Gravarg Right now it's the best MMO on the market. 1.6 is going to make it even better and fix and add a lot of the things that the community has been asking for. 1.7 will be even better with the full introduction of the Justice System. If there is one thing ZOS does right, it's listen to their players.
I think listening to players is a horrible idea. I can't think of a single example of art, music or literature that became a masterpiece because the creator said or did the most popular thing. Worse, once you're caught in that whirlpool, you must continue to do it, treading water to the whim of the current, and honestly, the current is pretty mindless and doesn't have a clue what it really wants.
Are you just disagreeing for the sake of argument at this point?
It is like you are a hyperbolic straw man imitation of an actual argument. Yeah, I am sure players hate it when developers listen to them and give them what they want. Dragon Age 2 was the greatest game of all time. Diablo 3 was better while blizzard was still ignoring players. Making Dust 514 console only was an excellent idea.
No, I have lofty ambitions and views. The contention I have is "what is best", mentioned in his post, juxtaposed to "what sells" or even "what makes people happy in the moment". McDonalds sells, and it makes people happy in the moment. Would you put it in the same sentence with "what is best"? How about WalMart?
MMos, and games in general, multi-media creations, are art. If you're going to define art by what makes the most people pay, or what makes the most people pay attention, you're completely missing the point of what ever made any good art "good", that it came from the inside of the art's creator, and in that, others found inspiration. If it comes from the hearts of the patrons, it's just a commercial product, only art in the most broad definition. Is that what you want? MMOs that are made purely for the sake of making money? There are plenty of those. We don't need another example.
I take issue with the view "what sells best is what is best". Alot of people are waking up with the same inclination over the last few years on the matter of online gaming. I certainly wouldn't cleave to something that sucks for the pure reason it's not popular, but also I'm not going to be led to believe because 10,000 people got their word in edgewise it makes a better product.
Also, clearly the argument isn't "straw man". Please use idioms you understand in the future.
Originally posted by Gravarg Right now it's the best MMO on the market. 1.6 is going to make it even better and fix and add a lot of the things that the community has been asking for. 1.7 will be even better with the full introduction of the Justice System. If there is one thing ZOS does right, it's listen to their players.
I think listening to players is a horrible idea. I can't think of a single example of art, music or literature that became a masterpiece because the creator said or did the most popular thing. Worse, once you're caught in that whirlpool, you must continue to do it, treading water to the whim of the current, and honestly, the current is pretty mindless and doesn't have a clue what it really wants.
Are you just disagreeing for the sake of argument at this point?
It is like you are a hyperbolic straw man imitation of an actual argument. Yeah, I am sure players hate it when developers listen to them and give them what they want. Dragon Age 2 was the greatest game of all time. Diablo 3 was better while blizzard was still ignoring players. Making Dust 514 console only was an excellent idea.
No, I have lofty ambitions and views. The contention I have is "what is best", mentioned in his post, juxtaposed to "what sells" or even "what makes people happy in the moment". McDonalds sells, and it makes people happy in the moment. Would you put it in the same sentence with "what is best"? How about WalMart?
MMos, and games in general, multi-media creations, are art. If you're going to define art by what makes the most people pay, or what makes the most people pay attention, you're completely missing the point of what ever made any good art "good", that it came from the inside of the art's creator, and in that, others found inspiration. If it comes from the hearts of the patrons, it's just a commercial product, only art in the most broad definition. Is that what you want? MMOs that are made purely for the sake of making money? There are plenty of those. We don't need another example.
I take issue with the view "what sells best is what is best". Alot of people are waking up with the same inclination over the last few years on the matter of online gaming. I certainly wouldn't cleave to something that sucks for the pure reason it's not popular, but also I'm not going to be led to believe because 10,000 people got their word in edgewise it makes a better product.
Also, clearly the argument isn't "straw man". Please use idioms you understand in the future.
Quoting for later.
Clearly the idea that a good developer shouldn't make what players want is a good argument. Let's tell everyone in the topic where the players discuss what they want that they should be ignored.
Next time you troll you need to dial it back a bit. The whole "developers shouldn't listen to the players, they should listen to me..." That was just a bit over the top. Still you do earn points for the "lofty ambitions" speech.
Originally posted by Gravarg Right now it's the best MMO on the market. 1.6 is going to make it even better and fix and add a lot of the things that the community has been asking for. 1.7 will be even better with the full introduction of the Justice System. If there is one thing ZOS does right, it's listen to their players.
I think listening to players is a horrible idea. I can't think of a single example of art, music or literature that became a masterpiece because the creator said or did the most popular thing. Worse, once you're caught in that whirlpool, you must continue to do it, treading water to the whim of the current, and honestly, the current is pretty mindless and doesn't have a clue what it really wants.
Are you just disagreeing for the sake of argument at this point?
It is like you are a hyperbolic straw man imitation of an actual argument. Yeah, I am sure players hate it when developers listen to them and give them what they want. Dragon Age 2 was the greatest game of all time. Diablo 3 was better while blizzard was still ignoring players. Making Dust 514 console only was an excellent idea.
No, I have lofty ambitions and views. The contention I have is "what is best", mentioned in his post, juxtaposed to "what sells" or even "what makes people happy in the moment". McDonalds sells, and it makes people happy in the moment. Would you put it in the same sentence with "what is best"? How about WalMart?
MMos, and games in general, multi-media creations, are art. If you're going to define art by what makes the most people pay, or what makes the most people pay attention, you're completely missing the point of what ever made any good art "good", that it came from the inside of the art's creator, and in that, others found inspiration. If it comes from the hearts of the patrons, it's just a commercial product, only art in the most broad definition. Is that what you want? MMOs that are made purely for the sake of making money? There are plenty of those. We don't need another example.
I take issue with the view "what sells best is what is best". Alot of people are waking up with the same inclination over the last few years on the matter of online gaming. I certainly wouldn't cleave to something that sucks for the pure reason it's not popular, but also I'm not going to be led to believe because 10,000 people got their word in edgewise it makes a better product.
Also, clearly the argument isn't "straw man". Please use idioms you understand in the future.
Quoting before you edit out how foolish you look.
Clearly the idea that a good developer shouldn't make what players want is a good argument. Let's tell everyone in the topic where the players discuss what they want that they should be ignored.
Next time you troll you need to dial it back a bit. The whole "developers shouldn't listen to the players, they should listen to me..." That was just a bit over the top. Still you do earn points for the "lofty ambitions" speech.
Final score: 7/10
Bad premise is mostly redeemed by moving speech.
Not trolling at all. If you want my base feeling on the matter, the not nice version, I personally believe most people are idiots who have no clue what is good or what they want. Take it to the bank if you like. I'm pretty confident in it.
"We want more of this and this and we'll pay you for it!"
This concept "public validity makes a better product" is garbage. Your disapproval doesn't invalidate the facts I've come to understand. You asked to hear it, accused it to be trolling and in an unspoken manner demanded confirmation. I don't know what else to say to you or how to explain it. That's really how I feel. I am unabashed and unapologetic.
Originally posted by Gravarg Right now it's the best MMO on the market. 1.6 is going to make it even better and fix and add a lot of the things that the community has been asking for. 1.7 will be even better with the full introduction of the Justice System. If there is one thing ZOS does right, it's listen to their players.
I think listening to players is a horrible idea. I can't think of a single example of art, music or literature that became a masterpiece because the creator said or did the most popular thing. Worse, once you're caught in that whirlpool, you must continue to do it, treading water to the whim of the current, and honestly, the current is pretty mindless and doesn't have a clue what it really wants.
Are you just disagreeing for the sake of argument at this point?
It is like you are a hyperbolic straw man imitation of an actual argument. Yeah, I am sure players hate it when developers listen to them and give them what they want. Dragon Age 2 was the greatest game of all time. Diablo 3 was better while blizzard was still ignoring players. Making Dust 514 console only was an excellent idea.
No, I have lofty ambitions and views. The contention I have is "what is best", mentioned in his post, juxtaposed to "what sells" or even "what makes people happy in the moment". McDonalds sells, and it makes people happy in the moment. Would you put it in the same sentence with "what is best"? How about WalMart?
MMos, and games in general, multi-media creations, are art. If you're going to define art by what makes the most people pay, or what makes the most people pay attention, you're completely missing the point of what ever made any good art "good", that it came from the inside of the art's creator, and in that, others found inspiration. If it comes from the hearts of the patrons, it's just a commercial product, only art in the most broad definition. Is that what you want? MMOs that are made purely for the sake of making money? There are plenty of those. We don't need another example.
I take issue with the view "what sells best is what is best". Alot of people are waking up with the same inclination over the last few years on the matter of online gaming. I certainly wouldn't cleave to something that sucks for the pure reason it's not popular, but also I'm not going to be led to believe because 10,000 people got their word in edgewise it makes a better product.
Also, clearly the argument isn't "straw man". Please use idioms you understand in the future.
Quoting before you edit out how foolish you look.
Clearly the idea that a good developer shouldn't make what players want is a good argument. Let's tell everyone in the topic where the players discuss what they want that they should be ignored.
Next time you troll you need to dial it back a bit. The whole "developers shouldn't listen to the players, they should listen to me..." That was just a bit over the top. Still you do earn points for the "lofty ambitions" speech.
Final score: 7/10
Bad premise is mostly redeemed by moving speech.
Not trolling at all. If you want my base feeling on the matter, the not nice version, I personally believe most people are idiots who have no clue what is good or what they want. Take it to the bank if you like. I'm pretty confident in it.
"We want more of this and this and we'll pay you for it!"
This concept "public validity makes a better product" is garbage. Your disapproval doesn't invalidate the facts I've come to understand. You asked to hear it, accused it to be trolling and in an unspoken manner demanded confirmation. I don't know what else to say to you or how to explain it. That's really how I feel. I am unabashed and unapologetic.
Well it's an interesting theory. That "art" should come solely from the "creator."And it could apply to single developer indy games... those developed by hermits, that is.
But what that theory has to do with the development, maintenance and changes to MMOs that are collaborative efforts that involve hundreds of "creators" making decisions in group meetings. I have no idea.
Even if you assume that there is one single individual at the top where the buck stops, you're just showing your lack of knowledge about how AAA studios develop products that cost hundreds of millions to make. The person whose desk is where the buck stops is almost never the "artist." Typically it's the chief bean counter.
How it happens is that many people who work for the company have ideas and those ideas get discussed and some get developed and some don't. Quite often those ideas are not original and come from what someone has seen somewhere else or even what someone in a forum somewhere has posted.
The only thing worth looking at, as a game evolves, is whether its evolving well or not. ESO seems to be getting universal praise for evolving in a positive way. It's doing so because the developers were willing to contemplate new ideas-- wherever those ideas came from.
Some of those ideas (such as the Champion system) are entirely their own and were thought-up in their internal discussions and many others (chat bubbles, variable level dungeons, improved animation, improved weapon swap speed, etc.) came from community feedback. were discussed by them and implemented if they liked them. Many other ideas that people proposed were not and will never be implemented.
So... no, "public validity" doesn't make garbage. And your dogmatic assessment on how MMOs should be developed is just baseless mumbo jumbo.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
As childish as WoW is, I'd still put it at the top.
ESO was just another title where so few classes and races exist that everyone pretty much looks the same. Everyone able to go stealth mode in pvp,i.e., shield slamming cloth wearing nonsense, and so forth, 79% of the population wearing a bow, and too much copy paste with what little there is to begin with.
This is such a far cry from Dark Age of Camelot I can't even begin to describe it. Most folks haven't played, DAoC, however, so for them, ESO is probably something fresh.
Prediction: Free to Play in the next six-months, which will be spun to consumers as a way to better offer the game to the community.
Well it's an interesting theory. That "art" should come solely from the "creator."And it could apply to single developer indy games... those developed by hermits, that is.
But what that theory has to do with the development, maintenance and changes to MMOs that are collaborative efforts that involve hundreds of "creators" making decisions in group meetings. I have no idea.
Even if you assume that there is one single individual at the top where the buck stops, you're just showing your lack of knowledge about how AAA studios develop products that cost hundreds of millions to make. The person whose desk is where the buck stops is almost never the "artist." Typically it's the chief bean counter.
How it happens is that many people who work for the company have ideas and those ideas get discussed and some get developed and some don't. Quite often those ideas are not original and come from what someone has seen somewhere else or even what someone in a forum somewhere has posted.
The only thing worth looking at, as a game evolves, is whether its evolving well or not. ESO seems to be getting universal praise for evolving in a positive way. It's doing so because the developers were willing to contemplate new ideas-- wherever those ideas came from.
Some of those ideas (such as the Champion system) are entirely their own and were thought-up in their internal discussions and many others (chat bubbles, variable level dungeons, improved animation, improved weapon swap speed, etc.) came from community feedback. were discussed by them and implemented if they liked them. Many other ideas that people proposed were not and will never be implemented.
So... no, "public validity" doesn't make garbage. And your dogmatic assessment on how MMOs should be developed is just baseless mumbo jumbo.
Your conclusion is fine because it's yours. The rest is a tangent. The statement with which I took issue was, "because devs listen to players it makes a better game". A better argument, if you felt the need to be obtuse, would be, "what if the devs play their own game! they're listening to players!", and we could go round and round. It's fine. I'm not attacking your ESO. You don't need to put so much effort into defending it.
"But more than one person makes an mmo!" You're just being insulting, but it's fine. I forgive you.
After winning the MMO face off finals from LOTRO, it seems this is the game to rule them all. But as a new king, they have a duty to keep improving the game... So here is my Question, what new features would you love to see after the 1.6, what features does this game require, to become the benevolent king of MMOs
here is my shart list in random order...
- better annimations, espescially the staff casting annimations, and more fluent combat annimations in general
- more skilltrees, weapons specialisations, guilds, divine powers( including daedric) and magic powers like necromancy
- more comtent, a new zone or part of it including dungeons preferably every 4 weeks
- dynamic events, in the new and old zones, if you have done the old zones they become very peacefull, spice them upp with dynamic content, some like in GW2, but also invasions comming from anchors, like we know from rifts
- level scaling, an option to set your character to equall level as the content ( if you outlevel it)
- turn the champion system into an advanced AA system like in EQ2
- add mounted combat, like in LOTRO, with its own skillsets, it will be great in PvP... But also allows them to create mounted combat PvE comtent
- add a horseracing track, with a competition...
- after adding the justice system, build it further to a full blown faction system, with several NPC factions that players can join...
animations: coming with next patch
more skilltrees: coming with next patch
more content: constantly incomding at a pretty fast pace altough i think every 4 weeks is not realistic
level scaling: good idea, i personally want to have level scaling in EVERY open world game - but they had this in other elder scrolls games and most people HATED it so they took it out again
i dont know eq2
mounted combat imo is a waste of ressources...to implement it well is really difficutl and how important is it for how you perceieve the game?
afaik horseracing will be implemented in one of the next pachtes
regarding factions - you can already join 3 guilds...i assume they might add to that sooner or later with the thieves guild and dark brotherhood...maybe some others later...but it will probably be in the same fashion as now.
After winning the MMO face off finals from LOTRO, it seems this is the game to rule them all. But as a new king, they have a duty to keep improving the game... So here is my Question, what new features would you love to see after the 1.6, what features does this game require, to become the benevolent king of MMOs
here is my shart list in random order...
- better annimations, espescially the staff casting annimations, and more fluent combat annimations in general
- more skilltrees, weapons specialisations, guilds, divine powers( including daedric) and magic powers like necromancy
- more comtent, a new zone or part of it including dungeons preferably every 4 weeks
- dynamic events, in the new and old zones, if you have done the old zones they become very peacefull, spice them upp with dynamic content, some like in GW2, but also invasions comming from anchors, like we know from rifts
- level scaling, an option to set your character to equall level as the content ( if you outlevel it)
- turn the champion system into an advanced AA system like in EQ2
- add mounted combat, like in LOTRO, with its own skillsets, it will be great in PvP... But also allows them to create mounted combat PvE comtent
- add a horseracing track, with a competition...
- after adding the justice system, build it further to a full blown faction system, with several NPC factions that players can join...
animations: coming with next patch
more skilltrees: coming with next patch
more content: constantly incomding at a pretty fast pace altough i think every 4 weeks is not realistic
level scaling: good idea, i personally want to have level scaling in EVERY open world game - but they had this in other elder scrolls games and most people HATED it so they took it out again
i dont know eq2
mounted combat imo is a waste of ressources...to implement it well is really difficutl and how important is it for how you perceieve the game?
afaik horseracing will be implemented in one of the next pachtes
regarding factions - you can already join 3 guilds...i assume they might add to that sooner or later with the thieves guild and dark brotherhood...maybe some others later...but it will probably be in the same fashion as now.
Four weeks is too fast. Every MMO that's tried to do that has failed miserably so far. Just look at Wildstar recently.
And having to admit that they can't pull it off after making the promise in the first place only makes Devs lose face to their players, so I'm glad they haven't set a number like that.
I've heard some older MMOs managed to do it, but games were far more simplistic back then in terms of graphics. These days they have to do the facial animations, the voice acting needs to be in, more art assets need to be created for new content, it needs to be properly playtested or it will get exploited shamelessly, etc... four weeks is definitely too little time.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Just make the game overall tougher so people will group up more. No I am not saying forced grouping but the best way for people to play a mmo should always be in group with other players. More grouping, Housing and an Auction House. That's what I want to see.
Originally posted by phantomghost I gave up on the game when you could get lvl 1 to vr12 in 1 week while working a full time job. By no means am I saying you could max all skills but you could easily get to the max level (at the time I played) in 1 week or less.. I just cannot get into any game that requires so little time investment into my character. The game was enjoyable for 1-2 months but beyond that it is the same old lack of meaningful PvE content.
No you can not get to max level in a week unless uou do not work and have no sleep.
ESO won because its new. Lotro is Ancient. Lotro still a better game over all. But still not great. Its worse than it was a year after release actually (on most fronts). But when they pay you to simply own the game it really cant ever lose any poll if you ask me. I suspect there are more lifetime pass holders for Lotro than there are active subs for ESO. But Lotro is old and people have done everything there is to do in it.
ESO is MUCH MUCH MUCH better than it was during the beta (which I assume was the same as release), have only encountered a single quest bug(still bugged), and only a few skill bugs and crashed maybe twice in 70 hours of play. The game feels more like an ES game also. Still not close but a lot better than it was.
As for what it 'needs". Housing of course. Akin to what Rift has with dimensions where you can free form things. Has to be instanced obviously. But if the dimension type mechanic doesnt work, do it similar to Skyrim where you have a house portal and you go inside. Then maybe have open world grounds or balconies. and the ability to grow or raise things in that open world space. Similar to Skyrim.
Music system. Where you play instruments. Better than what Lotro does (which is still the best).
More dynamic event. There are some random encounters but theyre not enough. Since they layer everything anyway its not beyond them to do something with achievement unlocks. Similar to how crafting resource maps work. You have the map youre the only one ho can see the nodes. You unlock an achievement you have the chance to have some random encounter (with a randomized timer and mob list so its not a one time thing)
General auction house. Or exchange. Guild ones are OK but still dont reach everyone. Even with people in five guilds.
Reputations. Completely non existent in this game but being able to gain rep with factions or different towns (rather than being auto champion) opens up all sorts of things.
There are more but those are off the top of my head.
But basically the companies rep was built on RPG type stuff so the obvious course of action is RPG. PvP is dead and it will never be the savior of any game, it is a vocal minority (so tiny theyre not worth mentioning) that constantly clamors for PvP in EVERY single new MMO that come out. And when every MMO that comes out focuses on PvP they inevitably fail because no one gives a shit about PvP. Yes an MMO should have it but it shouldnt be the focus of any PvP in this day and age. That was the major mistake these guys did and what looks like theyre going to compound with update 6. PvP is the easiest player made content an MMO can get but no one does it right and most people interested in Elder Scrolls games couldnt care less about PvP.
As childish as WoW is, I'd still put it at the top.
ESO was just another title where so few classes and races exist that everyone pretty much looks the same. Everyone able to go stealth mode in pvp,i.e., shield slamming cloth wearing nonsense, and so forth, 79% of the population wearing a bow, and too much copy paste with what little there is to begin with.
This is such a far cry from Dark Age of Camelot I can't even begin to describe it. Most folks haven't played, DAoC, however, so for them, ESO is probably something fresh.
Prediction: Free to Play in the next six-months, which will be spun to consumers as a way to better offer the game to the community.
I just can't agree with you assessment of the class/race/skill system. There are 10 different races all with different racial bonuses. Each class has 36 active skills and 12 passives. Outside of classes there are armor, world, guild and Alliance war skill lines and passives which all classes can use. When you couple this with being able to ware all armor in any stat/enchantment configuration you are able to develop lots of unique play styles.
I'm a chronic respec'er. Skills and customization are everything to me. For 8 months I played/developed one character, a Redguard, medium armor, stamina based, Nightblade, Werewolf. I use two handed weapons and a bow. I have never seen anyone with my build. I've played this build to top 10 every Alliance War campaign solo.
I just leveled a new character. He's a Redguard, light/heavy armor stamina based, sorcerer, vampire. Once at level cap I plan to put him in light/medium armor with high stam and magicka with low health. He will rely on armor buffs and shields for survivabilty.
My point is I have not played a more flexible character system. At any point, I can change all that I've said about both those toons. I could make my NB a light armor healer. My sorcerer a heavy armor tank. My biggest concern when starting ESO was that there would not be enough customization. In the customization department ESO has surpassed anything that I could have expected.
Comments
It is the mmo champion here, not of the universe. Maybe you have some kind of inside knowledge on skewed polls and propaganda, but as a casual forum member here I can believe the outcome of the poll. /shrug
I like where the OP is going with this, as this is a great way to try and actually do something with the outcome of what the members here consider the best.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Let's start with the easy things...i would like to see more mounts,it's pity that there is a lot of armor and weapon customization but we all ride on the same 3-4 different colored horses.At least give us more horses.
P.S.Now that i mentioned weapon customization....also DYES for our weapons,plz!
You simply cannot look past your own bitterness.
The current state of mmos:
Several big themepark mmos with varying mechanics offering solid game play for very large audiences.
A few indie mmos offering niche game play.
Classic mmos still exist. You can STILL play EQ1&2, Asherons's Call, AO, DAoC and many others.
Many indie and new developer mmos being developed from both private and crowd funding because demand for oldschool and original concept development is high. Several are sandbox recognizing the success of EVE and the hole left by SWG's absence.
There are so many mmos that regionalization is required. This means not all games will be targeted at you. Western and Eastern tastes vary wildly at times. Regionalizing something is a reflection of success ... not failure. It is a tool of expansion.
ESO itself may be considered "themepark" but it's development focus is entirely different than most mmos. It is extremely horizontal in nature along with (often different as well) progression. This cannot be ignored. It's focus has always been a translation of the single rpg experience into an mmo. By definition this may not interest you. It does not mean the game sucks. Learn the difference.
Just a few years back there was NO hope of new niche game play returning or created because big industry had a strangle hold on the genre. The current state of the industry is far as positive now as it was in the golden era. The audience is larger and there has to be a larger spectrum of games to support it. This means by definition that many of these games will not interest ALL players.
If you merely post to expose your bitterness while ignoring facts and the bigger picture then your argument is empty.
You stay sassy!
Not sure if trolling or just doesn't understand what an opinion means
Agreed. "Blah, blah, blah, bitterness, blah blah". Sounds alot like, "You're just mad", or "rustled jimmies", or "triggered".
The vote was in fun on an advertisement site. Granted, it advertises mmos, it also sells mmos it advertises. No matter how seriously you take the content or this vote here, you're playing around on an advertisement site. All we're doing is lining the pockets of the people who own and operate the site, not "getting down to business" on which mmo is best or how to improve the genre. I have a real feeling many of you are caught in an illusion about this.
It starts to be not fun when people take it so seriously. You're screwing it up. Stop it.
I think listening to players is a horrible idea. I can't think of a single example of art, music or literature that became a masterpiece because the creator said or did the most popular thing. Worse, once you're caught in that whirlpool, you must continue to do it, treading water to the whim of the current, and honestly, the current is pretty mindless and doesn't have a clue what it really wants.
Are you just disagreeing for the sake of argument at this point?
It is like you are a hyperbolic straw man imitation of an actual argument. Yeah, I am sure players hate it when developers listen to them and give them what they want. Dragon Age 2 was the greatest game of all time. Diablo 3 was better while blizzard was still ignoring players. Making Dust 514 console only was an excellent idea.
Opinions still have to be based off of something. You have to have some experience in a subject to have an opinion. If based on something invalid, then your opinion is invalid. If your opinion does not change in the face of blatent evidence that you are wrong...it's still an invalid opinion.
More clear to you?
*EDIT - Not bashing Tamanous's post either. Is the post and pre replies I speak of.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
No, I have lofty ambitions and views. The contention I have is "what is best", mentioned in his post, juxtaposed to "what sells" or even "what makes people happy in the moment". McDonalds sells, and it makes people happy in the moment. Would you put it in the same sentence with "what is best"? How about WalMart?
MMos, and games in general, multi-media creations, are art. If you're going to define art by what makes the most people pay, or what makes the most people pay attention, you're completely missing the point of what ever made any good art "good", that it came from the inside of the art's creator, and in that, others found inspiration. If it comes from the hearts of the patrons, it's just a commercial product, only art in the most broad definition. Is that what you want? MMOs that are made purely for the sake of making money? There are plenty of those. We don't need another example.
I take issue with the view "what sells best is what is best". Alot of people are waking up with the same inclination over the last few years on the matter of online gaming. I certainly wouldn't cleave to something that sucks for the pure reason it's not popular, but also I'm not going to be led to believe because 10,000 people got their word in edgewise it makes a better product.
Also, clearly the argument isn't "straw man". Please use idioms you understand in the future.
Quoting for later.
Clearly the idea that a good developer shouldn't make what players want is a good argument. Let's tell everyone in the topic where the players discuss what they want that they should be ignored.
Next time you troll you need to dial it back a bit. The whole "developers shouldn't listen to the players, they should listen to me..." That was just a bit over the top. Still you do earn points for the "lofty ambitions" speech.
Final score: 7/10
Bad premise is mostly redeemed by moving speech.
Not trolling at all. If you want my base feeling on the matter, the not nice version, I personally believe most people are idiots who have no clue what is good or what they want. Take it to the bank if you like. I'm pretty confident in it.
"We want more of this and this and we'll pay you for it!"
This concept "public validity makes a better product" is garbage. Your disapproval doesn't invalidate the facts I've come to understand. You asked to hear it, accused it to be trolling and in an unspoken manner demanded confirmation. I don't know what else to say to you or how to explain it. That's really how I feel. I am unabashed and unapologetic.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Well it's an interesting theory. That "art" should come solely from the "creator."And it could apply to single developer indy games... those developed by hermits, that is.
But what that theory has to do with the development, maintenance and changes to MMOs that are collaborative efforts that involve hundreds of "creators" making decisions in group meetings. I have no idea.
Even if you assume that there is one single individual at the top where the buck stops, you're just showing your lack of knowledge about how AAA studios develop products that cost hundreds of millions to make. The person whose desk is where the buck stops is almost never the "artist." Typically it's the chief bean counter.
How it happens is that many people who work for the company have ideas and those ideas get discussed and some get developed and some don't. Quite often those ideas are not original and come from what someone has seen somewhere else or even what someone in a forum somewhere has posted.
The only thing worth looking at, as a game evolves, is whether its evolving well or not. ESO seems to be getting universal praise for evolving in a positive way. It's doing so because the developers were willing to contemplate new ideas-- wherever those ideas came from.
Some of those ideas (such as the Champion system) are entirely their own and were thought-up in their internal discussions and many others (chat bubbles, variable level dungeons, improved animation, improved weapon swap speed, etc.) came from community feedback. were discussed by them and implemented if they liked them. Many other ideas that people proposed were not and will never be implemented.
So... no, "public validity" doesn't make garbage. And your dogmatic assessment on how MMOs should be developed is just baseless mumbo jumbo.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
As childish as WoW is, I'd still put it at the top.
ESO was just another title where so few classes and races exist that everyone pretty much looks the same. Everyone able to go stealth mode in pvp,i.e., shield slamming cloth wearing nonsense, and so forth, 79% of the population wearing a bow, and too much copy paste with what little there is to begin with.
This is such a far cry from Dark Age of Camelot I can't even begin to describe it. Most folks haven't played, DAoC, however, so for them, ESO is probably something fresh.
Prediction: Free to Play in the next six-months, which will be spun to consumers as a way to better offer the game to the community.
Your conclusion is fine because it's yours. The rest is a tangent. The statement with which I took issue was, "because devs listen to players it makes a better game". A better argument, if you felt the need to be obtuse, would be, "what if the devs play their own game! they're listening to players!", and we could go round and round. It's fine. I'm not attacking your ESO. You don't need to put so much effort into defending it.
"But more than one person makes an mmo!" You're just being insulting, but it's fine. I forgive you.
animations: coming with next patch
more skilltrees: coming with next patch
more content: constantly incomding at a pretty fast pace altough i think every 4 weeks is not realistic
level scaling: good idea, i personally want to have level scaling in EVERY open world game - but they had this in other elder scrolls games and most people HATED it so they took it out again
i dont know eq2
mounted combat imo is a waste of ressources...to implement it well is really difficutl and how important is it for how you perceieve the game?
afaik horseracing will be implemented in one of the next pachtes
regarding factions - you can already join 3 guilds...i assume they might add to that sooner or later with the thieves guild and dark brotherhood...maybe some others later...but it will probably be in the same fashion as now.
Somebody never played Redguard.
Still puts it heads and tails above pretty much every MMO ever made though.
Four weeks is too fast. Every MMO that's tried to do that has failed miserably so far. Just look at Wildstar recently.
And having to admit that they can't pull it off after making the promise in the first place only makes Devs lose face to their players, so I'm glad they haven't set a number like that.
I've heard some older MMOs managed to do it, but games were far more simplistic back then in terms of graphics. These days they have to do the facial animations, the voice acting needs to be in, more art assets need to be created for new content, it needs to be properly playtested or it will get exploited shamelessly, etc... four weeks is definitely too little time.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
No you can not get to max level in a week unless uou do not work and have no sleep.
People should stop posting about dreams like they happened irl. Maybe hes a sleepwalker and hes still asleep, shhhhh....
ESO won because its new. Lotro is Ancient. Lotro still a better game over all. But still not great. Its worse than it was a year after release actually (on most fronts). But when they pay you to simply own the game it really cant ever lose any poll if you ask me. I suspect there are more lifetime pass holders for Lotro than there are active subs for ESO. But Lotro is old and people have done everything there is to do in it.
ESO is MUCH MUCH MUCH better than it was during the beta (which I assume was the same as release), have only encountered a single quest bug(still bugged), and only a few skill bugs and crashed maybe twice in 70 hours of play. The game feels more like an ES game also. Still not close but a lot better than it was.
As for what it 'needs". Housing of course. Akin to what Rift has with dimensions where you can free form things. Has to be instanced obviously. But if the dimension type mechanic doesnt work, do it similar to Skyrim where you have a house portal and you go inside. Then maybe have open world grounds or balconies. and the ability to grow or raise things in that open world space. Similar to Skyrim.
Music system. Where you play instruments. Better than what Lotro does (which is still the best).
More dynamic event. There are some random encounters but theyre not enough. Since they layer everything anyway its not beyond them to do something with achievement unlocks. Similar to how crafting resource maps work. You have the map youre the only one ho can see the nodes. You unlock an achievement you have the chance to have some random encounter (with a randomized timer and mob list so its not a one time thing)
General auction house. Or exchange. Guild ones are OK but still dont reach everyone. Even with people in five guilds.
Reputations. Completely non existent in this game but being able to gain rep with factions or different towns (rather than being auto champion) opens up all sorts of things.
There are more but those are off the top of my head.
But basically the companies rep was built on RPG type stuff so the obvious course of action is RPG. PvP is dead and it will never be the savior of any game, it is a vocal minority (so tiny theyre not worth mentioning) that constantly clamors for PvP in EVERY single new MMO that come out. And when every MMO that comes out focuses on PvP they inevitably fail because no one gives a shit about PvP. Yes an MMO should have it but it shouldnt be the focus of any PvP in this day and age. That was the major mistake these guys did and what looks like theyre going to compound with update 6. PvP is the easiest player made content an MMO can get but no one does it right and most people interested in Elder Scrolls games couldnt care less about PvP.
I just can't agree with you assessment of the class/race/skill system. There are 10 different races all with different racial bonuses. Each class has 36 active skills and 12 passives. Outside of classes there are armor, world, guild and Alliance war skill lines and passives which all classes can use. When you couple this with being able to ware all armor in any stat/enchantment configuration you are able to develop lots of unique play styles.
I'm a chronic respec'er. Skills and customization are everything to me. For 8 months I played/developed one character, a Redguard, medium armor, stamina based, Nightblade, Werewolf. I use two handed weapons and a bow. I have never seen anyone with my build. I've played this build to top 10 every Alliance War campaign solo.
I just leveled a new character. He's a Redguard, light/heavy armor stamina based, sorcerer, vampire. Once at level cap I plan to put him in light/medium armor with high stam and magicka with low health. He will rely on armor buffs and shields for survivabilty.
My point is I have not played a more flexible character system. At any point, I can change all that I've said about both those toons. I could make my NB a light armor healer. My sorcerer a heavy armor tank. My biggest concern when starting ESO was that there would not be enough customization. In the customization department ESO has surpassed anything that I could have expected.