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[Column] General: Why Are NPCs So Robotic?
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
When I play an MMO, I love the feeling of walking through a virtual world. Sure, it’s fun to kill great beasts and to find epic adventure, but in the end I mostly look forward to meeting new virtual people that fill those virtual worlds. The problem is that crafting a living, virtual world is hard.
Read more of Beau Hindman's A Casual, Cornered: Why are NPCs So Robotic?
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Comments
The emphasis in online games has shifted away from "virtual worlds" to instant-action games. That means that NPC's are largely irrelevant.
Players spend so little time interacting with NPC's that there's no point in giving them depth. In most MMO's, after 2 weeks you're only doing dailies, dungeons and battlegrounds.
Secret world?
well-written npcs there. (or even a few in AoC)
current game with the best npc logic and communication by far Project Gorgon
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I can fly higher than an aeroplane.
And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes.
Hurt - Wars
Simple enough : Human Minds its complex and none us can understand well
how you can reproduce this if you cant understand? its why AI in most game you feeling so boring and robotic
The Simple, but true, answer to why NPCs seem robotic. Because they ARE robots. They have set parameters that, at best, will react to the environment and produce output that can be predicted given certain situations, or inputs. They ARE robots.
The amount of coding that would be required PER NPC to make them react and do things in an unpredictable, but seemingly logical, manner would take FAR too many resources to be practical.
I can fly higher than an aeroplane.
And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes.
Hurt - Wars
Fallout New Vegas has by far the most believable NPCs,they walk around and sleep at night, sit down at tables etc. turn round when you talk to them and you even can kill them all and completely change the story
impossible to turn into MMO though
indeed npc are react based in triggers
and code more triggers more expensive going be
Because the NPC's main function in modern mmorpg's is to have a big exclamation point over their head.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
You better go tell EQN and Citadel of Sorcery that it's impossible because they're not just doing fallout-like NPC scripts (ESO is in an upcoming patch) they're going way beyond that.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
If ESO gets it I will buy it and get a test subscription.
So far I only read that Star Citizen will have the most advanced NPC real life simulation scripts (by Kythera A.I.)
TSW, AOC and ESO have great NPCs.
I agree that MMORPG are getting away from RPG and virtual worlds and turning to instant action (mobile like) games.
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Info on EQN NPCs: http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/08/21/soe-live-2014-the-revolutionary-intelligence-of-storybricks-ai/
Citadel of Sorcery: http://www.citadelofsorcery.com/about/game-plays
ESO update 6 (coming to the PTS this month and expected live in February):
(Detailed preview here: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/view/forums/thread/425217/An-InDepth-look-at-Update-6-Elder-Scrolls-Onlines-largest-update-ever.html )
(The part about NPC changes coming with the Justice System below)
Living, breathing NPCs
With the release of the new system, NPC AI has been upgraded and they will now perform activities such as sleeping, cleaning their homes and taking walks among many other activities. An NPC could be sleeping in their home one moment and the next moment they could wake up and take a walk around town, go to the tavern, or go fishing in the nearest body of water. They do these activities in real-time and don't just teleport into nowhere when you're not looking. This adds a huge layer of immersion.
This can affect criminals. Many cities, especially Daggerfall, have many hidden alleyways and lonely locations which can be a perfect spot for a murder to take place and an NPC may walk right into one, with a criminal sneaking around right behind them, preparing to strike at their target.
The time of day may also play a role in crime, and will affect when shops are open and NPCs are sleeping.
So yeah... there are attempts on several fronts to stamp-out robotic NPCs. It seems to be the new thing in mmorpg development for studios that are willing to take the chance.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
This. MMOs are staple fast food. Race to cap, which devs have made increasingly easier, and then either engage in pointless PvP and/or raiding. Then they sometimes add single player storylines which you play through once and then are gone forever.
MMO devs have completely lost their imagination and are just creating MMOs like cars at an assembly line.
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NPCs already play a major role as the bad guys we are hunting, the villagers we interview to get to the bottom of a problem, or the world boss we are about to put down. I would like to see some of these major NPCs in town buying a hotdog or hanging out in the local bar talking about world domination. Maybe even crafting up stuff in the local shop.
I always have to smile when I play Bloodlines and see the NPC they used as a ghost in one of the quests still hanging out in the local club.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
The original train of thought was the correct one,give them a job.
If they are a store owner,then i guess they would not be wandering around but for many of the npc's they could be wandering around the game world.The problem of course is AI but it would be nice to see a developer ,as i always like to put it..."put in some effort".
In FFXI certain NPC's in the city that offered services could be captured,then after the city siege,if captured they would not be there to offer their services.You could then go out and rescue them by going to the stronghold of the Beastmen that captured them.
I am really not big on npc's selling stuff,unless it has been sold to them first by players.Also in FFXI a few of the npc's could be hired if you figured out the trick ,give them a certain item and they would join the forces during Campaign battles.Then we have seen of course many npc's for hire ,henchmen or whatever we call them,however i would like to see them NOT as permanent fixtures such as in EQ2,they should get tired after a bit and go home.
It would be cool to see npc's out farming,perhaps make it so they could die,so players might want to help them out so perhaps they could buy animal skins or what not from those npc's.
There are tons of ideas for npc's if we could simply get the devs to "put in the effort".
Generic linear questing is such a lazy effort by developers,it is a one dimensional trigger system that takes no effort at all once the mobs and npc are crafted.
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True 'dat. Still standing in the same spot since 2012.
I remember Ultima 7 NPC. Ideal of NPC you're talking about. Sleeping, working, hanging out in tavern and interacting with each other. Alas, no way we can have it MMORPG. Like it was correctly noted above most of the NPC is furniture. Besides, most MMORPGs have little in terms of environment. Let's face it: most MMORPG don't even try to be virtual worlds (was said above too). Just a themepark railroad with a few stops to buy drinks and make photos.
I just post about this one today: http://https://www.facebook.com/groups/644479912339095/permalink/673303496123403/ They approaching it from involving players standpoint, making world lively by continuously reinvigorating it through GMs. Well, they plan to. It's a long time to find out whether they succeed.
Another good one is EQNext. Really a marvel they promise: NPC reactions, interactions, migrations etc. But back in a day I coded pseudo-parallel process' as learning exercise (actually, task was to recreate program knowing concept already). And sprites I programmed had a very few qualities, not to mention a single reaction to their environment. I'm nor trying to imagine neither bother to calculate how much processor power and memory game will need to make those NPC as lively as they describe. Sure thing, things improved much since MSX2 Z80 but it still a whole new brave world I only dare dream of.
And one more thing. There are a ton of people whining about absence of virtual worlds and railroad gaming. About half of them ****ing hypocrites who lost their ability to play anything more complex than 'World of Warcraft'. And nowadays WoW is too complex for them too, but they still whine about new horizons and how bad everything is. I introduced one of my acquaintances to 'The Secret World' - he jumped out in a few days, claiming it is adventure game. I'm serious, stop laughing. Oh, you didn't? Me neither.
Well, there are other gamers who really want virtual worlds with NPC being real deal. Some of them nurture hatred for SOE and swear to avenge SWG ignoring the existence of SWGEmu altogether. They are capable, but nothing is good enough for them. We know diagnosis, right? Nostalgia.
That left us with a not-so-big amount of players who genuinely both want something more complex then just relaxing joyride and able to look into the future without constantly comparing everything to Days of Yore. People, let's face it: we are outnumbered by those who does not want anything more. So I am waiting for Star Citizen to launch. I still remember Iceman, Bossman, Knight, Maniac, Angel, Spirit, Paladin and Shootglass. Most lively NPC I ever saw, heh.
I apologize for those who had patience to read it all. My idea is there no half-measures in this matter. There is no making NPC a bit more lively, napping here and walking there. Whole concept needs to be rewritten to get any result. It's not just NPC static. Almost everything is. Even monsters we 'hunt' is not that lively and don't start me on 'smart'. So 'burn it down, make anew'.
The whole design strategy of MMOs has changed. This article would have been asking a relevant question five of six years ago.
Today they want you to be buying and gambling in the cash shop, not talking to NPC's. Anything that detracts from that is being pared down or removed at a stroke.
You like to walk around a virtual world, well so do I. But are you buying something in the cash shop while you are exploring? No.
Start with the understanding that cash shops are at the heart of todays MMO design. So now do you think making NPC's more interactive is going to happen? Well yes if they could sell you items for cash, otherwise forget it.
While this is about making NPCs less robotic, why not replace NPCs by something that is by it's very nature NOT robotic?
Simply get rid of each and every NPC, and let players take over.
If the economy is player run, if players can become king, if there are armed forces, different factions with a multitude of goals. Maybe the local wood elves are rather direct in protecting their woods, so even a ordinary woodcutter would hire some mercenaries as body guard. And robbing miners and smiths is always a worthwhile target for ordinary criminals, whereas people with a bit higher goals might try to take out the king.
Either people seek their own adventure, totally freeform like in UO back then or add in some sort of player run reward system like Face of Mankind did, where the faction leaders set up missions that players can take on.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
Well, to be honest, there is a ton of stuff your average MMO could do better than it does now. And I guess NPCs are usually low on priority of improvements.
Anyway, I'd rather see the game world more detailed and fleshed out than miles and miles of levelling zones that you don't ever visit after you outlevel them (and no, TESO vet levels aren't a good reuse of zones imo...same shit if you'd say game has 100 levels not 50). I'd rather have pretty and fluid combat animations than 10 crappy generic zones.
Dunno, devs are crying how expensive is to make MMOs these days, and then they go and make 50% of the world redundant...go and spend the money to make content that will people playing at max level instead you derps. That is, hire people that will think of interesting things to do, not people that can only make huge swaths of uninteresting copy/paste content.