Did ZOS lie?

d_20

As of yesterday, I did not think so. Today, I am starting to feel there has been some amount of deception from ZOS. DMKano has said that there was an intention for b2p from the start based on hearsay information from a friend.

 

However, I now remember getting an item in game in April 2014 which I now believe was a placeholder xp potion.

 

It was called Tonic of Accelerated Time.

 

There were other such buff potions (which didn't work) in the game as quest rewards. Many games (like GW2) give you boost items to let players know they exist and that they can get more in the cash shop.

 

These items were later removed from ESO, but they were in the game at launch.

 

Here is a thread from the official forums:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/82790/tonic-of-accelerated-time

 

To me this is evidence of deception about their intention to maintain a sub model.

 

Do you think ZOS lied?

Dakeru

I have no doubt B2P was planned from the beginning.

It's just more profitable to milk fans with a sub first before opening up for a broad audience.

Entinerint

Originally posted by d_20

As of yesterday, I did not think so. Today, I am starting to feel there has been some amount of deception from ZOS. DMKano has said that there was an intention for b2p from the start based on hearsay information from a friend.

 

However, I now remember getting an item in game in April 2014 which I now believe was a placeholder xp potion.

 

It was called Tonic of Accelerated Time.

 

There were other such buff potions (which didn't work) in the game as quest rewards. Many games (like GW2) give you boost items to let players know they exist and that they can get more in the cash shop.

 

These items were later removed from ESO, but they were in the game at launch.

 

Here is a thread from the official forums:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/82790/tonic-of-accelerated-time

 

To me this is evidence of deception about their intention to maintain a sub model.

 

Do you think ZOS lied?

 

Anyone who believes that a AAA MMO would go into production let alone launch without a non-sub-model contingency plan is living in a fantasy world.

 

They have had this plan since 2007, it was always just a question of whether they would need it.

bcbully

Um no... That's a trophy item. You click it and it gets added to achievements...  Nice try though OP, you're reaching though.

 

edit- They do nothing but take up inventory until you click them then they disappear and go towards your zone achievement. There's all types of stuff like this for example - 

You click then they go there on the right. None of those do anything.

Dakeru

Originally posted by bcbully
Um no... That's a trophy item. You click it and it gets added to achievements...  Nice try though OP, your reaching though. 

Uh so how does that make his post invalid?

GW2 has some rare consumables that are mostly cash items and using them once adds to a collection achievement.

 

His theory makes perfect sense.

Rollermint

I like ESO, while i'm not a player atm, what I played during beta I really enjoyed. Regardless of the problems but I consider myself a seasoned MMO gamer and know well enough to avoid brand new MMOs and let it mature for a bit before trying. I want ESO to grow and suceed, tbh, and defintiely plan to play more in the future.

Yet at the same time, I also feel that like you, ZoS has always build ESO with B2P in mind. What with being a multiple platform title, its the most logical choice considering how hardass Msoft or Sony can be when it comes to monthly subs on top of premium fees on the consoles.

I don't think they are THAT evil that their masterplan looks like "

1) Tell everyone its going to be monthly sub all the time

2) Milk PC players until conversion to B2P

3) Profit!

But rather more like they plan to try their best at making it monthly sub for ALL platforms unless they really really couldn't I like to think that b2P was their last resort if they can't strike a fair deal across all platforms with Msoft/Sony.

Still, I think that the only fair thing to do is for ZoS is to give all the players the Premium Benefits and rewards directly proportional to the amount of time they have or remained subbed to the service. Thats only fair and right imho.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Satyros

So the question is.. Did Zenimax resort to B2P or planned it all along?

Did they actually plan for the PC audience to pay their bug-fix?

Since the games population was on a rise (based on the sheer amount of newbies running around), I believe they did.

 

They had their plan and followed it. 

Population was never an issue.

waynejr2

Originally posted by d_20

As of yesterday, I did not think so. Today, I am starting to feel there has been some amount of deception from ZOS. DMKano has said that there was an intention for b2p from the start based on hearsay information from a friend.

 

However, I now remember getting an item in game in April 2014 which I now believe was a placeholder xp potion.

 

It was called Tonic of Accelerated Time.

 

There were other such buff potions (which didn't work) in the game as quest rewards. Many games (like GW2) give you boost items to let players know they exist and that they can get more in the cash shop.

 

These items were later removed from ESO, but they were in the game at launch.

 

Here is a thread from the official forums:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/82790/tonic-of-accelerated-time

 

To me this is evidence of deception about their intention to maintain a sub model.

 

Do you think ZOS lied?

I don't give a crap if they did.  Have you never lied in you life? 

What if some of the talking heads said it was supposed to be b2p and said so publicly and the people running the show had a different opinion and also got to make the final decision.  Does that make it a lie?  Can't there be two perspectives?  Could the powers that be rolled the dice for subscription and are now making a change? 

 

 

bcbully

Originally posted by Dakeru

Originally posted by bcbully
Um no... That's a trophy item. You click it and it gets added to achievements...  Nice try though OP, your reaching though. 

Uh so how does that make his post invalid?

GW2 has some rare consumables that are mostly cash items and using them once adds to a collection achievement.

 

His theory makes perfect sense.

Trophy items are found throughout the ESO zones. You loot them, and click them to add to your trophy achievement. That moves them out your inventory. You can't look at them you can't do anything with them, can't equip them anything. They are pretty lame honestly. You get a blue drop and think wow neat, but it does nothing but take inventory space until you click then it goes towards the zone trophy achievement. Think lore objects in rift, but with no lore! lol

d_20

Brianna Royce at Massively says:

"...it's impossible at this point not to believe that studios like ZeniMax did not have this planned from the beginning (well, maybe everything but the outrageously long console delay, which will have cost it so very much money). I'm annoyed by the suspicion that ESO wasn't just sticking to subs out of principle but was probably plotting from the start to milk PC subscribers, stringing them along with minimal updates until the console launch."

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2015/01/22/the-think-tank-analyzing-elder-scrolls-onlines-b2p-model/#

rodingo

The thing of it is, given ZOS's track record these past 6-8 months, I have a feeling that we will never hear them confirm nor deny anything.  Thus making this conversation moot really.  What can you do?  I think most of us have our suspicions though.

Distopia

My question is if they want to maximize profits and are operating under deceptive principle, why would they use a subscription service in the first place? Freemium systems make a lot more money.

 

Orious

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Dakeru

Originally posted by bcbully
Um no... That's a trophy item. You click it and it gets added to achievements...  Nice try though OP, your reaching though. 

Uh so how does that make his post invalid?

GW2 has some rare consumables that are mostly cash items and using them once adds to a collection achievement.

 

His theory makes perfect sense.

Trophy items are found throughout the ESO zones. You loot them, and click them to add to your trophy achievement. That moves them out your inventory. You can't look at them you can't do anything with them, can't equip them anything. They are pretty lame honestly. You get a blue drop and think wow neat, but it does nothing but take inventory space until you click then it goes towards the zone trophy achievement. Think lore objects in rift, but with no lore! lol

Took me 2 VR levels of grinding to finish the Atronach collectable achivement. I wanted the "whiter" dye color and I can barely tell the difference....

Iselin

Lol. Nice conspiracy theory OP.

 

You forgot to mention the other green trophy from the necroed thread you linked that, unfortunately for you, doesn't have a name that suggests cash shop potion: The Tonic of Intoxicating Strength, Both of those were found in Malbal Tor and didn't seem to do anything at all and were eventually removed - both of them not just the one whose name you're trying to shoehorn into a conspiracy.

 

There are dozens of these fluffy quest rewards that turn you sparkly, induce a puking animation, make you scream ... There's even one that is used as a costume and turns you into a skeleton... was "da bomb" in PVP for a couple of months,

 

All of these are green and the un-bugged ones usually do something.

 

The collectibles BCBully was referring to are the blue trophies which disappear and are marked as achievements once you click on them. (oh, and  by the way BC that green bear trap actually does work as a trap and will snare an NPC in a fight for a few seconds)

 

There's a fairly comprehensive list of these trophies over at ESOhead: http://esohead.com/items#type:5

 

But by all means, do start another thread with a catchy title.

 

(PS: ZOZ lies and so did your parents: no tooth fairy, Easter bunny or Santa...sorry about that)

d_20

Originally posted by Iselin

Lol. Nice conspiracy theory OP.

 

You forgot to mention the other green trophy from the necroed thread you linked that, unfortunately for you, doesn't have a name that suggests cash shop potion: The Tonic of Intoxicating Strength, Both of those were found in Malbal Tor and didn't seem to do anything at all and were eventually removed - both of them not just the one whose name you're trying to shoehorn into a conspiracy.

 

There are dozens of these fluffy quest rewards that turn you sparkly, induce a puking animation, make you scream ... There's even one that is used as a costume and turns you into a skeleton... was "da bomb" in PVP for a couple of months,

 

All of these are green and the un-bugged ones usually do something.

 

The collectibles BCBully was referring to are the blue trophies which disappear and are marked as achievements once you click on them. (oh, and  by the way BC that green bear trap actually does work as a trap and will snare an NPC in a fight for a few seconds)

 

There's a fairly comprehensive list of these trophies over at ESOhead: http://esohead.com/items#type:5

 

But by all means, do start another thread with a catchy title.

 

(PS: ZOZ lies and so did your parents: no tooth fairy, Easter bunny or Santa...sorry about that)

These had a question mark over the icon for the item as placeholders.

 

And the title of the thread asks a yes or no answer. Guess you do have an answer after all. Since when has it become acceptable for companies to lie (even though apparently they do it)?

 

It's a straightforward and valid topic of discussion, though it seems to make a few people uncomfortable for some reason. Seems like people have some interesting things to say in this thread.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Iselin

Originally posted by d_20

Originally posted by Iselin

Lol. Nice conspiracy theory OP.

 

You forgot to mention the other green trophy from the necroed thread you linked that, unfortunately for you, doesn't have a name that suggests cash shop potion: The Tonic of Intoxicating Strength, Both of those were found in Malbal Tor and didn't seem to do anything at all and were eventually removed - both of them not just the one whose name you're trying to shoehorn into a conspiracy.

 

There are dozens of these fluffy quest rewards that turn you sparkly, induce a puking animation, make you scream ... There's even one that is used as a costume and turns you into a skeleton... was "da bomb" in PVP for a couple of months,

 

All of these are green and the un-bugged ones usually do something.

 

The collectibles BCBully was referring to are the blue trophies which disappear and are marked as achievements once you click on them. (oh, and  by the way BC that green bear trap actually does work as a trap and will snare an NPC in a fight for a few seconds)

 

There's a fairly comprehensive list of these trophies over at ESOhead: http://esohead.com/items#type:5

 

But by all means, do start another thread with a catchy title.

 

(PS: ZOZ lies and so did your parents: no tooth fairy, Easter bunny or Santa...sorry about that)

These had a question mark over the icon for the item as placeholders.

 

And the title of the thread asks a yes or no answer. Guess you've got nothing to say about that.

Oooh question marks you say? Well that proves it - they were cash shop prototypes... I am now convinced. Yes. The question mark logic did it.

Kyleran

Originally posted by Iselin

Lol. Nice conspiracy theory OP.

 

You forgot to mention the other green trophy from the necroed thread you linked that, unfortunately for you, doesn't have a name that suggests cash shop potion: The Tonic of Intoxicating Strength, Both of those were found in Malbal Tor and didn't seem to do anything at all and were eventually removed - both of them not just the one whose name you're trying to shoehorn into a conspiracy.

 

There are dozens of these fluffy quest rewards that turn you sparkly, induce a puking animation, make you scream ... There's even one that is used as a costume and turns you into a skeleton... was "da bomb" in PVP for a couple of months,

 

All of these are green and the un-bugged ones usually do something.

 

The collectibles BCBully was referring to are the blue trophies which disappear and are marked as achievements once you click on them. (oh, and  by the way BC that green bear trap actually does work as a trap and will snare an NPC in a fight for a few seconds)

 

There's a fairly comprehensive list of these trophies over at ESOhead: http://esohead.com/items#type:5

 

But by all means, do start another thread with a catchy title.

 

(PS: ZOZ lies and so did your parents: no tooth fairy, Easter bunny or Santa...sorry about that)

Wait, what? They told me I had been naughty, what do you mean those don't exist?

I think they gave the sub model a shot, didn't quite work out when it came to the console versions, so decided to make a switch.

 

 

Iselin

Originally posted by Kyleran

I think they gave the sub model a shot, didn't quite work out when it came to the console versions, so decided to make a switch.

 

 

Yup. That's all there is to it. But conspiracies are so much more fun.

 

I think they did fine in box sales. We might never know the number but I suspect between 1-2 Mil. But their retention rate was obviously poor since there really isn't a whole lot of real end-game PVE content. PVP in Cyrodiil is still outstanding but that's not everyone's cup of tea for months on end.

 

I was gone for a couple of months myself last September and don't play it nearly as obsessively now as I used to. B2P is the perfect model for me to drop in and out, stay for a while and then go play other stuff.

 

As I said before the announcement, the significance of announcing the B2P switch in conjunction with the Console launch is simply that it's better PR since they don't have to admit to poor retention. It can simply be spun as a better model for consoles - which it is-- but their retention rate lately must have been worrying them anyway.

 

I mean, c'mon... only one full VR level PVP campaign compared to 5 or 6 at launch?

olepi

Ok look, ESO is a console game. Skyrim showed them that the real money is on the console, after console sales were over 85%of the total. It was always evident from the beginning, with the limited action slots and the linear inventory. It's a console game.

Do console games usually come with monthly subs? Doesn't take a rocket scientist here ...

A smart executive would have said: "Ok, try it on subs. If you beat WoW, you're good. Otherwise, we're B2P on consoles."  It was always planned to go B2P on consoles.

 

DKLond

Of course they planned for this - and they likely planned for many things. That's part of being a business, as you have to prepare yourself for what could happen. Investors and suits are hungry for profit - and if you're a publisher, you better make sure you please them as much as possible.

I doubt they went with subscriptions as a deception, but much more likely a first try - as in to see if that model would be profitable to the extent they were hoping for.

Apparently, there aren't enough people willing to invest 15$ pr. month for the experience and the content updates - so now they have to go with plan B.

I personally despise the publisher-model - but it's reality right now when it comes to mainstream AAA titles. As such, I can't blame the people in charge for being subject to reality. I am too, you know.

Shaigh

Originally posted by DKLond

Of course they planned for this - and they likely planned for many things. That's part of being a business, as you have to prepare yourself for what could happen. Investors and suits are hungry for profit - and if you're a publisher, you better make sure you please them as much as possible.

I doubt they went with subscriptions as a deception, but much more likely a first try - as in to see if that model would be profitable to the extent they were hoping for.

Apparently, there aren't enough people willing to invest 15$ pr. month for the experience and the content updates - so now they have to go with plan B.

I personally despise the publisher-model - but it's reality right now when it comes to mainstream AAA titles. As such, I can't blame the people in charge for being subject to reality. I am too, you know.

In many ways its a lesson that swtor taught the MMO sphere, you can't release an MMO without a backup payment model.

 

With that said, ZoS always struck me as very dishonest and half the time it felt more likes a sales pitch. I remember Firor proudly proclaiming P2P since they didn't want any payment walls in their games just to put imperials as a special edition. Once they put a horse in the cash shop it was extremely obvious that it was only time before there would be a cash shop.

YashaX

Originally posted by d_20

 

 

And the title of the thread asks a yes or no answer. Guess you do have an answer after all. Since when has it become acceptable for companies to lie (even though apparently they do it)?

 

I know the answer. No they did not lie. I hope that clears things up for you.

Dakeru

I think it's really naive to think this wasn't planned from the beginning.

Also Kano's inside source clearly said that they wanted to release as  B2P when the higher ups decided to go for a sub.

 

But of course you can once more claim that Kano is just creating rumors, rather than admtting that you have been paying a monthly fee, until the game was ready for the real targeted customers.

Siug

Originally posted by Dakeru

I think it's really naive to think this wasn't planned from the beginning.

Also Kano's inside source clearly said that they wanted to release as  B2P when the higher ups decided to go for a sub.

 

But of course you can once more claim that Kano is just creating rumors, rather than admtting that you have been paying a monthly fee, until the game was ready for the real targeted customers.

Why are you so angry? GW2 player, eh? I'll continue with sub until cash shop is fluff only. Only thing changed for me is an option to unsub and still be able to log in and play. Nobody lied to me. I would have preferred P2P model but these day are gone I guess.