Zenimax - lore and world integrity - this has ZERO to do with "zenimax" as a company - it has to do with a team of devs who worked there - again some of these guys have left the company already - do you think "Zenimax" can do the same without the same people?
Same goes for "Blizzard" and "NCSoft" - all of the praise given to them is totally dependent on the devs who did the work there - again who might not even be working there anymore.
This idea that somehow "companies" retain the same devs and same teams over the years - capable of producing the same results with every new game is really just absurd
I just automatically assumed we were talking about specific people.
In ESO/Zenimax's case I literally know at least the main guy in charge of the narrative design team. (actually shared an office with him on Reckoning: Kingdoms of Amalur.) He and his team are specifically who I'm referring to.
Same goes with the other employees.
It's the only way you can really answer the question.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Seriously? You would spend the next twenty years just trying to balance the core book O.C.C.s...
Not to mention the other 250 classes from all the splat books, and the 200 R.C.C.s and Races...
Kevin Siembieda doesn't so much game design as he just grabs everything that has ever been in a movie, TV show, cartoon, book, comic book, anime, manga, youtube video, or a disturbed too much beer, jalapeno cheddar and bratwurst fevered dream and stick it all in a Role-Playing Game.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire: Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
CCP (lead role) because they can create more than a game; they can create an instituion. only bliz and ccp would be up for the lead role and i prefer eve to wow.
SqEnix- for being able to adjust to mistakes. RARE among developers. Also for melding art style with art quality like no other developer.
NC Soft- For their relatively good implementation of the F2p model in aion and L2. also because L2 itself was a great game that was ruined more by illegal bots than by the devs.
En Masse- For the combat's fun factor.
Gazillion- Because I think they've proven themselves a real player with their (now) excellent marvel Diablo-like.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Microsoft or Google , though i don't think they will jump in MMO develop , but if they do i sure they will make something unique with they own technology .
Originally posted by iixviiiix Microsoft or Google , though i don't think they will jump in MMO develop , but if they do i sure they will make something unique with they own technology .
M$ has failed in the MMO marketplace several times already.
First off, I would not include Blizzard, at least not modern day Blizzard. GhostCrawler for all his flaws was truly the master of challenging game design. Something that Blizzard has been unable to replicate since his departure. Also you'd get Jay Wilson and all his RNG RMT D3 BS and that's not something I want in my dream game.
I also would not take NC Soft. There are a few companies within NC Soft that I'd like on the project and I'll talk about them later. But the parent company itself is as greedy as EA is. They do not care about the quality of their projects so I don't want them.
1) ArenaNet 2) Undead Labs
I'm still of the opinion that launch GW2 was the best gaming experience I've ever had. The first 3 months before Ascended and Fractals were amazing and something I will probably never experience again.
ArenaNet deserves a lot of the credit for the game, it was a labor of love and continues to be. But you can't overlook the contributions of Strain and Wyatt. State of Decay was an excellent game and I can't wait to see Class4. Originally I think GW2 was Strain's vision that has become O'Brien's vision which is why I believe the game has made some bad calls but ultimately, it was their 3 man team that built ArenaNet and GW2 and I want them all on my project.
3) City State Entertainment
With the team of ArenaNet and Undead Labs leading the project and working on the leveling and PvE experience. I wanted to grab the company responsible for best MMO PvP. DAoC RvR was the correct way to do PvP in a MMO. Large scale, tri faction, relics, faction loyalty, it was near perfect.
4) MEK Entertainment
This is strictly for Mark Kern. Look, not everyone is cut out to lead but the guy is brilliant and I've never seen anyone that understands the typical MMO player better than Mark. With my heads and PvP team in place, I want him as a consultant on the entire project. Man just gets it.
5) Square Enix
I debated a bit over this last spot because it's mainly for a section of the MMO space I'm not interested in....endgame. ANet/UL will build a great leveler, CSE will build some great PvP, and Kern will tweak and improve as we go. But the game needs endgame and long term progression if its to survive. I look across the MMO space and see that SWTOR and FFXIV are really the only 2 MMOs growing substantially year to year. Now I love me some Bioware and story, number 1 pick if this was a single player, but its an MMO and I think SWTOR grows only cause of its title. ARR got to where it is on the back of outstanding endgame so I choose them to be my last choice.
A video game company has had a successful game in the past - therefore they will create successful games in the future.
Take Blizzard back in 2004 or SoE back in 1999 when they did EQ1 - who created those games? The companies or was it a team of developers working there?
The developers *who worked for those companies at that time* - over time these many of these devs have moved and worked at different companies.
The teams that have created those games are long gone - devs shuffle from one company to another, many core folks from Blizzard and SoE haven't worked there in over 7 years.
Companies don't create games - devs do.
The sooner people stop stereotyping games based on which company made them - oh this is a "Blizzard" game or this is a "Trion" game etc... the better
IMO - it is a lot better idea to follow good devs/game designers as they move from one company to another - than to follow *companies" as a whole.
Case in point - Andrew Krausnick, aka Avarem - I've been a fan of his work since he worked at Sigil games back during Vanguard days, then he went to SoE for several years, and has been at Trion sicne 2010 - and is the lead on Trove.
Just my 2c - follow good devs, don't focus on which company they work for as that is not important in the end - the video games are a product of designers - not "companies" they work for!
From this response it is clear that you have never been a part of a team, well at least not truly. If you had, you would realize the fallacy of your own response. Game Development teams are what make games, not developers. Individual developers certainly contribute, some more than others, to the overall success or failure of a game. However, distilling a single or a hand full of game developers from the rest of the team is quite closed-minded.
Secondly, Game Development teams are guided by their parent company. Blizzard is one example you pointed out, and I quite like that you pointed it out. While Blizzard has probably lost and gained dozens of developers over the years, one thing remains in their company, and that is their design value. Game Development companies are not always consistent, and do not always maintain a core design value, but Blizzard is one of the exceptions. Why do I say that? Because Blizzard has maintained a core group of leaders that have managed the direction and development of all of their titles almost since Blizzard's inception. Chris Metzen, Michael Morhaime, Frank Pearce, and Samwise Didier. Leadership, if consistent, often yields similar results despite a change (even significant) in staff. Also, the direction of the games at Blizzard are heavily influenced by their senior leadership.
As I said above, games aren't made by singular developers, but teams. If a company maintains the core design values and leadership in their development teams, no matter if the team changes staff or not it will produce very similar results.
What the OP is asking (which is not a fallacy), is if you could distill the design values from 5 of your favorite game development companies into one 'SuperMMO', what five companies would you choose?
Comments
I just automatically assumed we were talking about specific people.
In ESO/Zenimax's case I literally know at least the main guy in charge of the narrative design team. (actually shared an office with him on Reckoning: Kingdoms of Amalur.) He and his team are specifically who I'm referring to.
Same goes with the other employees.
It's the only way you can really answer the question.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Are you a Glitter Boy?
Seriously? You would spend the next twenty years just trying to balance the core book O.C.C.s...
Not to mention the other 250 classes from all the splat books, and the 200 R.C.C.s and Races...
Kevin Siembieda doesn't so much game design as he just grabs everything that has ever been in a movie, TV show, cartoon, book, comic book, anime, manga, youtube video, or a disturbed too much beer, jalapeno cheddar and bratwurst fevered dream and stick it all in a Role-Playing Game.
Want to squash a vampire dragon by stepping on it with your giant mecha robot while driven by a juiced out psychic cactus-person techno-wizard?
...Palladium Rifts
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
CCP (lead role) because they can create more than a game; they can create an instituion. only bliz and ccp would be up for the lead role and i prefer eve to wow.
SqEnix- for being able to adjust to mistakes. RARE among developers. Also for melding art style with art quality like no other developer.
NC Soft- For their relatively good implementation of the F2p model in aion and L2. also because L2 itself was a great game that was ruined more by illegal bots than by the devs.
En Masse- For the combat's fun factor.
Gazillion- Because I think they've proven themselves a real player with their (now) excellent marvel Diablo-like.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
M$ has failed in the MMO marketplace several times already.
First off, I would not include Blizzard, at least not modern day Blizzard. GhostCrawler for all his flaws was truly the master of challenging game design. Something that Blizzard has been unable to replicate since his departure. Also you'd get Jay Wilson and all his RNG RMT D3 BS and that's not something I want in my dream game.
I also would not take NC Soft. There are a few companies within NC Soft that I'd like on the project and I'll talk about them later. But the parent company itself is as greedy as EA is. They do not care about the quality of their projects so I don't want them.
1) ArenaNet
2) Undead Labs
I'm still of the opinion that launch GW2 was the best gaming experience I've ever had. The first 3 months before Ascended and Fractals were amazing and something I will probably never experience again.
ArenaNet deserves a lot of the credit for the game, it was a labor of love and continues to be. But you can't overlook the contributions of Strain and Wyatt. State of Decay was an excellent game and I can't wait to see Class4. Originally I think GW2 was Strain's vision that has become O'Brien's vision which is why I believe the game has made some bad calls but ultimately, it was their 3 man team that built ArenaNet and GW2 and I want them all on my project.
3) City State Entertainment
With the team of ArenaNet and Undead Labs leading the project and working on the leveling and PvE experience. I wanted to grab the company responsible for best MMO PvP. DAoC RvR was the correct way to do PvP in a MMO. Large scale, tri faction, relics, faction loyalty, it was near perfect.
4) MEK Entertainment
This is strictly for Mark Kern. Look, not everyone is cut out to lead but the guy is brilliant and I've never seen anyone that understands the typical MMO player better than Mark. With my heads and PvP team in place, I want him as a consultant on the entire project. Man just gets it.
5) Square Enix
I debated a bit over this last spot because it's mainly for a section of the MMO space I'm not interested in....endgame. ANet/UL will build a great leveler, CSE will build some great PvP, and Kern will tweak and improve as we go. But the game needs endgame and long term progression if its to survive. I look across the MMO space and see that SWTOR and FFXIV are really the only 2 MMOs growing substantially year to year. Now I love me some Bioware and story, number 1 pick if this was a single player, but its an MMO and I think SWTOR grows only cause of its title. ARR got to where it is on the back of outstanding endgame so I choose them to be my last choice.
From this response it is clear that you have never been a part of a team, well at least not truly. If you had, you would realize the fallacy of your own response. Game Development teams are what make games, not developers. Individual developers certainly contribute, some more than others, to the overall success or failure of a game. However, distilling a single or a hand full of game developers from the rest of the team is quite closed-minded.
Secondly, Game Development teams are guided by their parent company. Blizzard is one example you pointed out, and I quite like that you pointed it out. While Blizzard has probably lost and gained dozens of developers over the years, one thing remains in their company, and that is their design value. Game Development companies are not always consistent, and do not always maintain a core design value, but Blizzard is one of the exceptions. Why do I say that? Because Blizzard has maintained a core group of leaders that have managed the direction and development of all of their titles almost since Blizzard's inception. Chris Metzen, Michael Morhaime, Frank Pearce, and Samwise Didier. Leadership, if consistent, often yields similar results despite a change (even significant) in staff. Also, the direction of the games at Blizzard are heavily influenced by their senior leadership.
As I said above, games aren't made by singular developers, but teams. If a company maintains the core design values and leadership in their development teams, no matter if the team changes staff or not it will produce very similar results.
What the OP is asking (which is not a fallacy), is if you could distill the design values from 5 of your favorite game development companies into one 'SuperMMO', what five companies would you choose?
Must we argue about everything?
Paragon Studios.
CoH RIP.