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Kickstarter does NOTHING to protect backers of MMO.
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Nice strawman
Yes, if you get scammed you only have yourself to blame, YOU bought into the scam, you were not forced, it was your decision, and your fault.
Not all kickstarters are scams, its up to you to decide which ones are real or not. Or maybe we should shut down all charities because some of them were scams?
Waiting for:
The Repopulation
Albion Online
They aren't really investments, they are considered a donation or if you want to call it a pre purchase to obtain a product. Investment is if you are giving/loaning money to make money back in the end.
This has nothing to do with a charity.
And the fact that not all kickstarters are a scam, does not invalidate the fact this IS a scam.
You're using the strawman arguments, not me.
Yes. Investors want to see business plans and know who they are getting in bed with. Things like background checks are often done. There is so much more they can do to show these people aren't scams.
Why doesn't mmorpg.com step up and act as advocates for consumers? They should write some critical articles on the matter and get the discussion going on this.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I agree.
The only site that I have seen actually pointing out the Kickstarter stupidity has been Forbes:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2014/06/26/areal-kickstarter-raises-huge-red-flags-backers-beware/
Ok lets clear one thing up.
Backing something on kickstarter does not make you a "customer" it does not make you an "investor" or an "Early adopter" it makes you a DONER, same as when you donate money to a charity. It does not give you any say in what happens to it, while kickstarter does have a code of conduct there is currently 0 protection or guarantee for you, same as when you give money to any charitable undertaking.
When people like Alan Greenspan say that business shouldn't get prosecuted for fraud because the market will take care of itself it part of the problem. When top money people see it that way, no wonder companies feel they can get away with things.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
If it is a pre-purchase, are kickstarters paying the appropriate sales taxes?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
A doner is a piece of meat. Donatations to charities are something very different from what Kickstarter does.
To begin with, kickstarter is not non-profit. Charities are. The goal of kickstarter is to make money. The goal of charities is to have a positive impact on society. You can't start whitewashing obvious scams like that.
The very premise of your argument applies to the scammer as well. Perpetrating the scam is even more heinous that falling for it and should be punished.
The way you guys talk about this, you'd think that the victim who fails to lock his door, deserves to not only have his things stolen, but the thief is not held responsible for his part.
Kickstarter acts how it does because people throw money at it, if it didn't work they would have to do better.
It's not the companies fault, it's stupid people that are at fault.
Oh boy, I have read some stupid stuff over the years on the internet. But I've never seen anyone protect scammers by claiming people who get scammed and become "homeless" have only themselves to blame. Claiming scamming people "progresses humanity" is just icing on the cake.
Nice strawman Yes, if you get scammed you only have yourself to blame, YOU bought into the scam, you were not forced, it was your decision, and your fault. Not all kickstarters are scams, its up to you to decide which ones are real or not. Or maybe we should shut down all charities because some of them were scams?
The very premise of your argument applies to the scammer as well. Perpetrating the scam is even more heinous that falling for it and should be punished.
The way you guys talk about this, you'd think that the victim who fails to lock his door, deserves to not only have his things stolen, but the thief is not held responsible for his part.
I am not saying that the theif shouldn't be punished, I am just very tired of this victimization trend that is popular now where people think they aren't responsible at all because they are the 'victim'.
Yes the theif should be punished, but the person needs to learn from their mistake that allowed them to be taken advantage of, because they are half the reason it happened.
Waiting for:
The Repopulation
Albion Online
Here is your debate: "moral aspect" vs "legal aspect".
It's not "legal" to steal someone else's picture or work.
It's not "moral" to do what this person is doing, but since there is (seemingly) no clause that the product HAS TO be delivered, and that the creator of the KS doesn't put any of his own possessions on the line by contract as a guarantee, then there is no protection. It is what it is.
It's (so far) "legal" to start a KS though, without any proof or anything. People are more or less free to donate their money basically.
I only backed 1 project so far (because it was done by Ubuntu, a famous name). I wouldn't back most projects personally. I think it's a case of doing your own research.
KS can be bad for vulnerable or gullible people though.
Where are you getting that information from?
Kickstarter is not a donation. You may purchase something from a project creator in order to help him out, but if you're promised valuable good in exchange for your money then that's not a donation. Donation is act of giving away without return consideration. Kickstarter with all its rewards is not donation.
There's "See full bio" a bit below the project creator's name.
If he's stealing other people's artwork, why would he use his real name. I can't find a single developer with that name on Google, and not a single person on Linked in is named by that name who develops games.
It's like real life: if you use your brain, you become almost impossible to scam.
The majority of people seem to be wisely investing in projects which seem plausible. The majority of those projects succeed.
All the projects I've backed have delivered, though some are in ongoing development with beta access. Many other players are saying the same thing.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I agree.
Sadly so far, MMORPG.com's stance has been that when making a report of Indiegogo project's launch they won't mention that the project just got Kicked out of Kickstarter because it's not relevant to the article.
So even if MMORPG.com knows that some project is shady (or in trouble with copyright law), they'll announce when it launches crowdfunding without any criticism or mentions that the project is shady.
Even with background checks, they can always get a "legit" front man for appearances sake.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
protection? Kickstarter is not an investment. it gives you a chance to risk some amount of your money, by trusting it to some others so what you want turn into reality. of course i would like it if Kickstarter would add more backer friendly rules but if you really know what you are doing the chances of giving your money to the wrong guy is very low. for example Kotaku made a list of kickstarter projects that succeeded but never delivered...i never heard of almost any of them and the only one that took me by surprise was The Stomping Land, i didn't give them any money though (didn't know the developers) but i was waiting for it's full launch so i finally buy it.
Kickstarter has lots of issues but thanks to it PC gaming got hell of a lot better because Valve and Blizzard are busy with their own things and PC got no Sony or Microsoft behind it to support it and thanks to it we got games like Divinity Original Sin, Shadowrun Returns + Dragonfall, The Banner Saga etc.
my top MMOs: UO,DAOC,WoW,GW2
most of my posts are just my opinions they are not facts,it is the same for you too.
Yes. He has no credentials to perform the task to which he's claimed he will participate. That is fraudulent. Another word for "fraud" is "scam". He doesn't even eat at Taco Bell. How can you say he's qualified?
another game where you can do everything with the push of just one button (PM's own words) ?
No Thank You
I really have to say... and? Investing is an MMO is like investing in any other business. There's no guarantee that it will succeed, that the game will be delivered, or that the person taking the money won't run away with it and disappear. It's part of taking a risk. It's why the most I've ever given for any kickstarter is $50. I can afford to lose $50. I can't afford to lose more than that. So it's up to you whether you want to risk it. Taking that risk is how you get the reward. If you don't take the risk, then you won't get anything out of it, but you also won't lose anything in the process.
Imagine if Wallstreet protected everyone that lost any money in an investment. The economy would grind to a halt because the investors couldn't take the bumps and bruises of their own bad decisions.
Yes it is, there is no contract they have to fulfill what was "promised" so there is nothing else to describe it besides a donation. You donate money and get a reward, its that simple.