›

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In Register

Quick Links

Kickstarter does NOTHING to protect backers of MMO.

135

Comments

  • dreamscaperdreamscaper Member UncommonPosts: 1,592
    Where did this idea that Kickstarter projects are in any way guaranteed come from? I've always looked at it as a donation system, as in you are NOT purchasing anything. So the reward perks are just a way of saying thank you, kind of like the stickers you get when you donate blood to the Red Cross, or the t-shirts they give out sometimes at charity events.

    <3

  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100
    Imagine if every experienced investor gave no personal insight as to investment strategies and shortfalls. People new to the game, wandering in, would do so blindly, victims to every bad hedge fund and penny stock. Is that what you want? For people to just shut up about it so others can get ripped off? Nice of you.
  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100
    Originally posted by Torval
    Originally posted by Adjuvant1
    Originally posted by Torval

    Do you have proof that this person is a scammer? Now you've stepped over a line making accusations without any proof.

    Yes. He has no credentials to perform the task to which he's claimed he will participate. That is fraudulent. Another word for "fraud" is "scam". He doesn't even eat at Taco Bell. How can you say he's qualified?

    Look, having credentials isn't a requirement for a KS project.

    There is no proof this is the same person. The huge problem with this whole self righteous campaign is that it is based on hearsay and speculation, not facts or proof.

    No scam has been committed and no connection to others has been verified. You people are throwing innocent people under the bus in your torch and pitchfork mob. We've crossed a line in the discussion. Other people could be hurt here. Innocent people.

    These are the facts. The OP lied about the identity of the KS owner. They made baseless accusations about a real person. Let's take it down a notch.

    I'm not arguing that the KS project in question looks bunk but let's not get crazy.

    You have a point, but there's no listing for any other Tom Sacharasnki in New Jersey. Maybe the name on the KS is falsified?

  • FearumFearum Member UncommonPosts: 1,175
    Originally posted by Adjuvant1
    Imagine if every experienced investor gave no personal insight as to investment strategies and shortfalls. People new to the game, wandering in, would do so blindly, victims to every bad hedge fund and penny stock. Is that what you want? For people to just shut up about it so others can get ripped off? Nice of you.

    The phrase "There's a sucker born every minute" comes to mind when I read some of these posts. People need to research everything before they give money for anything. Its up to YOU to find out what you are giving money for and who is proposing these things.

  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100
    Originally posted by Fearum
    Originally posted by Adjuvant1
    Imagine if every experienced investor gave no personal insight as to investment strategies and shortfalls. People new to the game, wandering in, would do so blindly, victims to every bad hedge fund and penny stock. Is that what you want? For people to just shut up about it so others can get ripped off? Nice of you.

    The phrase "There is a sucker born every minute" comes to mind when I read some of these posts. People need to research everything before they give money for anything. Its up to YOU to find out what you are giving money for and who is proposing these things.

    That's not cautionary advice. It was P.T. Barnum laughing about how he made millions.

    edit: a more pertinent quote would be "a fool and his money are soon parted", but that's not fun to watch, man. Let's get people to discuss things, give them a running start with a chance to be educated. Don't just watch people get hit by trucks. Yell once in awhile.

  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    Originally posted by Torval

    Do you have permission from the artist who own the avatar to your artwork?

    No, because it falls under  fair use.

    What he's doing is illegal because it's for commercial use.

  • FearumFearum Member UncommonPosts: 1,175
    Originally posted by Adjuvant1
    Originally posted by Fearum
    Originally posted by Adjuvant1
    Imagine if every experienced investor gave no personal insight as to investment strategies and shortfalls. People new to the game, wandering in, would do so blindly, victims to every bad hedge fund and penny stock. Is that what you want? For people to just shut up about it so others can get ripped off? Nice of you.

    The phrase "There is a sucker born every minute" comes to mind when I read some of these posts. People need to research everything before they give money for anything. Its up to YOU to find out what you are giving money for and who is proposing these things.

    That's not cautionary advice. It was P.T. Barnum laughing about how he made millions.

    edit: a more pertinent quote would be "a fool and his money are soon parted", but that's not fun to watch, man. Let's get people to discuss things, give them a running start with a chance to be educated. Don't just watch people get hit by trucks. Yell once in awhile.

    Survival of the fittest, let the weak perish. I wasn't giving advice it just reminded me of it when I read post about people getting beat for stupidly giving money to something they know nothing about.

  • HowbadisbadHowbadisbad Member UncommonPosts: 453

    Originally posted by Kiyoris
    I found the scammer:

    Tom AS THE TANK ENGINE

    Good to know that we are doxxing people now, I think it's time to let this thread die out.

    Waiting for:
    The Repopulation
    Albion Online

  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100
    Originally posted by Fearum
    Originally posted by Adjuvant1
    Originally posted by Fearum
    Originally posted by Adjuvant1
    Imagine if every experienced investor gave no personal insight as to investment strategies and shortfalls. People new to the game, wandering in, would do so blindly, victims to every bad hedge fund and penny stock. Is that what you want? For people to just shut up about it so others can get ripped off? Nice of you.

    The phrase "There is a sucker born every minute" comes to mind when I read some of these posts. People need to research everything before they give money for anything. Its up to YOU to find out what you are giving money for and who is proposing these things.

    That's not cautionary advice. It was P.T. Barnum laughing about how he made millions.

    edit: a more pertinent quote would be "a fool and his money are soon parted", but that's not fun to watch, man. Let's get people to discuss things, give them a running start with a chance to be educated. Don't just watch people get hit by trucks. Yell once in awhile.

    Survival of the fittest, let the weak die.

    No, thanks. We see evidence in the mended bones of 20,000 year old caveman skeletons that it's been human nature to support each other through weak periods. That blanket statement you just made is inhumane and garbage.

  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    Originally posted by Howbadisbad

     

    Originally posted by Kiyoris
    I found the scammer:

     

    Good to know that we are doxxing people now, I think it's time to let this thread die out.

    I deleted all the info, you do so too now.

  • WaterlilyWaterlily Member UncommonPosts: 3,105
    Originally posted by Torval
    Originally posted by Kiyoris
    Originally posted by Torval

    Do you have permission from the artist who own the avatar to your artwork?

    No, because it falls under  fair use.

    What he's doing is illegal because it's for commercial use.

    No it doesn't. This isn't fair use at all. That sounds like rationalization on your part. Not only that but it points out why your thinking is dangerous. There is always a double standard set. The people who do the judging of others live by  a more lax self-serving standard. The people being judged are held to a harsher more punitive standard.

    Using an avatar is fair use. Not a single judge is going to accuse you of copyright.

  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130

    avatar are fair use, you can stop arguing now

  • ThwaiteThwaite Member UncommonPosts: 83
    Oh come on... look at pirates online's ad.... who in the freak would back this to begin with. Obvious scam to everyone. There are better examples of ppl getting screwed imo.
  • eye_meye_m Member UncommonPosts: 3,317
    Originally posted by Kiyoris
    Originally posted by Naowut

    Get a life OP. 

    It's the internet, who gives a shit.

    I do. Why post in threads you claim not to care about. Go away then.

    on the same note, why are you calling scam on a KS that you don't intend to fund?

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

    I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.

  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,990
    Originally posted by Fearum
    Originally posted by Vrika
    Originally posted by Fearum
    They aren't really investments, they are considered a donation or if you want to call it a pre purchase to obtain a product. Investment is if you are giving/loaning money to make money back in the end. 

    Kickstarter is not a donation. You may purchase something from a project creator in order to help him out, but if you're promised valuable good in exchange for your money then that's not a donation. Donation is act of giving away without return consideration. Kickstarter with all its rewards is not donation.

    Yes it is, there is no contract they have to fulfill what was "promised" so there is nothing else to describe it besides a donation. You donate money and get a reward, its that simple.

    Donation is a gift given without return consideration. Giving another person money in exchange for him trying to use the money to make something for you is not a donation.

    Kickstarter is a bit hard to classify, but whatever it is it's not a donation.

    PS. If "You donate money and get a reward" would make something a donation, then I'd totally start donating my money to shops and getting the products I've chosen as a reward.

     

     
  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    Originally posted by eyelolled
    why are you calling scam on a KS

    I'm calling scam on a KS because it's a scam.

  • FlyinDutchman87FlyinDutchman87 Member UncommonPosts: 336
    Originally posted by Kiyoris
    Originally posted by Torval
    I prefer to live in a society where we're given the freedom to choose for ourselves whether make those decisions.

    Let me use that example and use it for a costlier object like a car.

    You go to a car dealer, you buy a $40,000 car.

    The car dealership never gives you the car.

    You go to the cops...instead of the cops doing something about it......the cops tell you....

    "I prefer to live in a society where we're given the freedom to choose for ourselves whether make those decisions. "

    You're telling me that is a good society?

     

     

    Your not BUYING anything... THAT's what people don't understand about KS. 

     

    It's a Micro-investment site. Your GIVING people money so they can start a project.

     

    It would be like loaning someone money when they tell you they have an idea for a buisness.  

     

    If it works out you'll prolly get your moneys worth and then some.... but most liekly they will start something up, it'll suck, they'll go broke and you'll never see a nickle....

     

    It happens everyday to lots of people. That's how the thing works.... Besides that's why projects go to KS anyway... Their idea is too un-formed and they don't have the backing or the collateral to get money from a bank or real investors. If they did... they wouldn't need to KS. 

    The site is full of hair-brained shemes, dreamers, and starving artists. 80% of the projects on their are TERRIBLE projects. You need to do YOUR homework. Like any other investment. 

  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    Originally posted by Vrika
    Originally posted by Fearum
    Originally posted by Vrika
    Originally posted by Fearum
    They aren't really investments, they are considered a donation or if you want to call it a pre purchase to obtain a product. Investment is if you are giving/loaning money to make money back in the end. 

    Kickstarter is not a donation. You may purchase something from a project creator in order to help him out, but if you're promised valuable good in exchange for your money then that's not a donation. Donation is act of giving away without return consideration. Kickstarter with all its rewards is not donation.

    Yes it is, there is no contract they have to fulfill what was "promised" so there is nothing else to describe it besides a donation. You donate money and get a reward, its that simple.

    Donation is a gift given without return consideration. Giving another person money in exchange for him trying to use the money to make something for you is not a donation.

    Kickstarter is a bit hard to classify, but whatever it is it's not a donation.

    PS. If "You donate money and get a reward" would make something a donation, then I'd totally start donating my money to shops and getting the products I've chosen as a reward.

     

    companies get all sort of tax deductions for making donations to charity (thats primarly why lot of them do it in the first place)

    And people who get all sort of media attention for their charity "donations" (aka self promotion) also go to that bin

    So yeah, all sort and variety of "donations" are being rewarded in variety of ways.

  • SulaaSulaa Member UncommonPosts: 1,329

    I have an advice for you.

     

    Do not "fund" MMOs, do not buy alpha/beta/gamma access, do not pre-order.   Do not buy a product once until it is done and released.

     

    I know shocker right?

  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    Originally posted by FlyinDutchman87
    Originally posted by Kiyoris
    Originally posted by Torval
    I prefer to live in a society where we're given the freedom to choose for ourselves whether make those decisions.

    Let me use that example and use it for a costlier object like a car.

    You go to a car dealer, you buy a $40,000 car.

    The car dealership never gives you the car.

    You go to the cops...instead of the cops doing something about it......the cops tell you....

    "I prefer to live in a society where we're given the freedom to choose for ourselves whether make those decisions. "

    You're telling me that is a good society?

     

     

    Your not BUYING anything... THAT's what people don't understand about KS. 

     

    It's a Micro-investment site. Your GIVING people money so they can start a project.

     

    It would be like loaning someone money when they tell you they have an idea for a buisness.  

     

    If it works out you'll prolly get your moneys worth and then some.... but most liekly they will start something up, it'll suck, they'll go broke and you'll never see a nickle....

     

    It happens everyday to lots of people. That's how the thing works.... Besides that's why projects go to KS anyway... Their idea is too un-formed and they don't have the backing or the collateral to get money from a bank or real investors. If they did... they wouldn't need to KS. 

    The site is full of hair-brained shemes, dreamers, and starving artists. 80% of the projects on their are TERRIBLE projects. You need to do YOUR homework. Like any other investment. 

    But thats why its awesome, and its worth for that 20%, because without KS those 20% wouldnt exist. You just have to make sure youre (as much as possible) youre not backing one of those 80%.
     

    (Happily backed multiple 20%-ers to nothing but my and other backers delight)

  • SeelinnikoiSeelinnikoi Member RarePosts: 1,360
    Originally posted by Destai
    Sounds like the perfect platform for the next Peter Molyneux game. 

    Or Half Life 3 :)

    If you are a Star Wars fan, why not try the Star Wars The Old Republic?
    New players can get a welcome package and old/returning players can also get a welcome back package and 7 days free subscription time! Just click here to use my referral invitation
  • NevulusNevulus Member UncommonPosts: 1,288

    "OMG I bought  OTC stock in a company that promised to release a miracle drug in the U.S., then they went bankrupt and I lost all my money I invested. OH NOOO WHY DOESN'T THE GOVERNMENT DO SOMETHING!!!!"

     

    It happens, it's called rick versus reward. It's legal. So if it happens in actual markets for public companies, then guess what? It can happen in Kickstarter.

     

    Like I used to tell all new day traders: DO YOUR HOMEWORK. Due Diligence. In other words as it applies to Kickstarter, only back projects with substantial concepts, prototypes, & personnel.

  • eye_meye_m Member UncommonPosts: 3,317
    Originally posted by Kiyoris
    Originally posted by eyelolled
    why are you calling scam on a KS

    I'm calling scam on a KS because it's a scam.

    I'm starting to be under the impression that you have some ulterior motives behind this vigilante façade.

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

    I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.

  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    Originally posted by Nevulus

    "OMG I bought  OTC stock in a company that promised to release a miracle drug in the U.S., then they went bankrupt and I lost all my money I invested. OH NOOO WHY DOESN'T THE GOVERNMENT DO SOMETHING!!!!"

     

    It happens, it's called rick versus reward. It's legal. So if it happens in actual markets for public companies, then guess what? It can happen in Kickstarter.

     

    Like I used to tell all new day traders: DO YOUR HOMEWORK. Due Diligence. In other words as it applies to Kickstarter, only back projects with substantial concepts, prototypes, & personnel.

    OP seeems to want someone else to "weed out "bad" projects" but he fails to see that he already has that and theyre called publishers/banks/investors and reason why KS was born in the first place.

    So doing what OP suggest would defeat purpose of KS.

    Also we should proclaim lottery a scam...i mean...i paid some money, they promised i can get millions....they pulled some numbers out....i got nada....SCAM!

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by Howbadisbad

    More news at 11.

    I thought everyone knew this by now, crowdfunding is essentially a donation, not even an investment. If you got burned, there isn't much you can do.

    I get the feeling that there are way too many people that think it's an investment or loan.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

This discussion has been closed.