Illogical conclusion. People with good ideas don't just go work for anyone. They work for people who understand the value of your ideas and who utilize them or they get people to work for them. Maybe you haven't been playing mmorpgs for the last decade, but theres been a lack of innovation and good ideas while everyone has been chasing WoW money. Look how many industry veterans have sought the opportunity to make another game themselves rather than join the trenches with mediocre talent as they slave away on shallow WoW clones. Innovators lead, they do not follow if they can help it.
I could not really find anything to disagree with there. It sounds lie they took every single MMORPG forumers complaints and said : We are going to address that in our game.
Maybe someone IS listening to you guys.
I particularly liked the one that said " An immersive world needs intelligent inhabitants".
But again, we are just reading words on a page here. I can't get too excited. In order to meet all those tenets, it is going to require some serious talent, serious time , and serious money.
Show me all that and I might get a little tingle.
Or maybe it is a great way to get money to fund the game and then do what all the rest have done, release it with 1/4 of what they said. Like another one said being old and have seen this with all the others I will believe it when I see it. Sorry man just can't trust them anymore. Too many promises made and then broken.
Originally posted by Dullahan Illogical conclusion. People with good ideas don't just go work for anyone. They work for people who understand the value of your ideas and who utilize them or they get people to work for them. Maybe you haven't been playing mmorpgs for the last decade, but theres been a lack of innovation and good ideas while everyone has been chasing WoW money. Look how many industry veterans have sought the opportunity to make another game themselves rather than join the trenches with mediocre talent as they slave away on shallow WoW clones. Innovators lead, they do not follow if they can help it.
Maybe innovators lead, but they don't pocket $45k of the limited development funds for personal use.
They don't burn every single bridge they have in the industry, they actually "accomplish something", beyond making a lot of promises that are never kept.
Look, I agree that the genre needs a new direction and that includes making a game like an old school MMO.
But McQuaid is not the guy to make it, after all his "problems" and very questionable behavior.
The people making the game are going to be begging for more crowdfunding dollars soon, and based on all that has gone on, McQuaid et al, get no benefit of any doubt when it comes to "promises made".
They want to make this kind of game? They can do it on their own dime, and people can decide if they did the job by buying or not when it is "finished".
Giving them anything beforehand, after the last batch of cash was "mismanaged"?
1. This game will be made. The team working on it right now do so for the love of the project and thats a big step up from people who work on something for the love of money.
2. The developers on this project understand the core concepts of what a true MMORPG is and this game will inject some of that back into a genre full of single player games that you can play online.
I don't disagree with point #2, but what makes you think #1 is fact after what happened with Vanguard? Yeah, the game still got made, but only because SOE bought it.
Originally posted by Dullahan Illogical conclusion. People with good ideas don't just go work for anyone. They work for people who understand the value of your ideas and who utilize them or they get people to work for them. Maybe you haven't been playing mmorpgs for the last decade, but theres been a lack of innovation and good ideas while everyone has been chasing WoW money. Look how many industry veterans have sought the opportunity to make another game themselves rather than join the trenches with mediocre talent as they slave away on shallow WoW clones. Innovators lead, they do not follow if they can help it.
Maybe innovators lead, but they don't pocket $45k of the limited development funds for personal use.
They don't burn every single bridge they have in the industry, they actually "accomplish something", beyond making a lot of promises that are never kept.
Look, I agree that the genre needs a new direction and that includes making a game like an old school MMO.
But McQuaid is not the guy to make it, after all his "problems" and very questionable behavior.
The people making the game are going to be begging for more crowdfunding dollars soon, and based on all that has gone on, McQuaid et al, get no benefit of any doubt when it comes to "promises made".
They want to make this kind of game? They can do it on their own dime, and people can decide if they did the job by buying or not when it is "finished".
Giving them anything beforehand, after the last batch of cash was "mismanaged"?
No Way.
Actually, quite the opposite is happening. If you've paid attention to the recent changes, they are not pushing the crowdfunding route at all.
Earlier this year, they removed the cash shop. And the lifetime subscription reward is no longer being offered to new pledges as of February 26. It has also been mentioned that even more pledge rewards may go away as the development continues. Hardly considered "begging for more crowdfunding dollars" if you ask me...
If you don't like the idea of the game or the people making it, then by all means don't support it. But, don't come on here spreading lies to support your misguided beliefs.
Its sick to see people continue to propagate lies based on someones past mistakes.
As much respect as I have for some of the original Pantheon team members, they were already on their way out and it was obvious if you watched the updates. Indie game development isn't for every industry veteran. Pantheon money stayed largely with Pantheon, to continue making Pantheon. No crimes were committed, no charges brought up, so just stop trolling with second, third and fourth hand information.
Originally posted by Alteri A) When Sony bought into (see: bought out) Verant and took over EQ, Mr. McQuaid was {paraphrasing} dismayed at the way his 'vision' of the game was 'distorted' (put gently). So, he made Vanguard... which was almost immediately sold to SOE... (you remember - the company that destroyed his 'vision' of the previous game?)
WHAT?!?!
You people have romanticized McQuaid so much you now think he created EQ.
EQ was always a Sony property. Sony executive John Smedley hired McQuaid.
Verant was just the name of the team for EQ, they became their own development studio(as in, they were in a separate office building) with the release of EQ and later went back to the SOE offices a year later because EQ became a big success and Sony wanted to keep a closer eye on it.
Originally posted by AlteriA) When Sony bought into (see: bought out) Verant and took over EQ, Mr. McQuaid was {paraphrasing} dismayed at the way his 'vision' of the game was 'distorted' (put gently). So, he made Vanguard... which was almost immediately sold to SOE... (you remember - the company that destroyed his 'vision' of the previous game?)
WHAT?!?!You people have romanticized McQuaid so much you now think he created EQ.EQ was always a Sony property. Sony executive John Smedley hired McQuaid.Verant was just the name of the team for EQ, they became their own development studio(as in, they were in a separate office building) with the release of EQ and later went back to the SOE offices a year later because EQ became a big success and Sony wanted to keep a closer eye on it.
from Wikipedia SOE acquired Verant in June 2000, and eventually promoted Brad McQuaid to be its Chief Creative Officer.[2] In October 2001, McQuaid resigned and then founded Sigil Games Online, drawing many of the original developers of EverQuest from SOE.
While Smedley was part of Verant, the original team had more creative control in the first few years of EverQuest. Theres a reason the game changed so dramatically after Velious, the last expansion that was created while Verant was still in creative control.
Theres also a reason the main developers of EverQuest broke off and formed their own game company. You don't have to read too deep or speculate too much to figure out what it was.
Originally posted by Alteri A) When Sony bought into (see: bought out) Verant and took over EQ, Mr. McQuaid was {paraphrasing} dismayed at the way his 'vision' of the game was 'distorted' (put gently). So, he made Vanguard... which was almost immediately sold to SOE... (you remember - the company that destroyed his 'vision' of the previous game?)
WHAT?!?!
You people have romanticized McQuaid so much you now think he created EQ.
EQ was always a Sony property. Sony executive John Smedley hired McQuaid.
Verant was just the name of the team for EQ, they became their own development studio(as in, they were in a separate office building) with the release of EQ and later went back to the SOE offices a year later because EQ became a big success and Sony wanted to keep a closer eye on it.
As long as the game being produced is even 50% of EQ... the money my wife and I have put forth will have gone to good use in my opinion. I see tons of people cry every day about there not being any good games out and they are all clones, though I see many more people complaining that they can't do anything about it, when in fact they can. All they need to do is give a guy a chance and if he really did screw up... well that only proves he's human. I'm sure everyone here has screwed up royally once or twice in their lives. If not they are either extremely sheltered or lying. I'm not sure what $25-50 bucks is to most people who are die hard gamers, though this at least has a chance... without it we have nothing. So from one gamer to the next, I'm asking that if you're able... please help out. I know I would be very appreciative.
Originally posted by Dullahan Originally posted by XiaokiOriginally posted by AlteriA) When Sony bought into (see: bought out) Verant and took over EQ, Mr. McQuaid was {paraphrasing} dismayed at the way his 'vision' of the game was 'distorted' (put gently). So, he made Vanguard... which was almost immediately sold to SOE... (you remember - the company that destroyed his 'vision' of the previous game?) WHAT?!?!You people have romanticized McQuaid so much you now think he created EQ.EQ was always a Sony property. Sony executive John Smedley hired McQuaid.Verant was just the name of the team for EQ, they became their own development studio(as in, they were in a separate office building) with the release of EQ and later went back to the SOE offices a year later because EQ became a big success and Sony wanted to keep a closer eye on it.
from Wikipedia SOE acquired Verant in June 2000, and eventually promoted Brad McQuaid to be its Chief Creative Officer.[2] In October 2001, McQuaid resigned and then founded Sigil Games Online, drawing many of the original developers of EverQuest from SOE.
While Smedley was part of Verant, the original team had more creative control in the first few years of EverQuest. Theres a reason the game changed so dramatically after Velious, the last expansion that was created while Verant was still in creative control.
Theres also a reason the main developers of EverQuest broke off and formed their own game company. You don't have to read too deep or speculate too much to figure out what it was.
Smedley was a "part" of Verant. You make it sound like he was the mail room guy or something. Smedley was co-founder and head of Verant.
Also, you remember incorrectly.
Verant was fully absorbed into Sony like a month after Kunark, and Velious wasnt released for another 6 months after that.
How can you look to the future when you fail at history?
Originally posted by AlteriA) When Sony bought into (see: bought out) Verant and took over EQ, Mr. McQuaid was {paraphrasing} dismayed at the way his 'vision' of the game was 'distorted' (put gently). So, he made Vanguard... which was almost immediately sold to SOE... (you remember - the company that destroyed his 'vision' of the previous game?) WHAT?!?!You people have romanticized McQuaid so much you now think he created EQ.EQ was always a Sony property. Sony executive John Smedley hired McQuaid.Verant was just the name of the team for EQ, they became their own development studio(as in, they were in a separate office building) with the release of EQ and later went back to the SOE offices a year later because EQ became a big success and Sony wanted to keep a closer eye on it.
from Wikipedia SOE acquired Verant in June 2000, and eventually promoted Brad McQuaid to be its Chief Creative Officer.[2] In October 2001, McQuaid resigned and then founded Sigil Games Online, drawing many of the original developers of EverQuest from SOE.
While Smedley was part of Verant, the original team had more creative control in the first few years of EverQuest. Theres a reason the game changed so dramatically after Velious, the last expansion that was created while Verant was still in creative control.
Theres also a reason the main developers of EverQuest broke off and formed their own game company. You don't have to read too deep or speculate too much to figure out what it was.
Smedley was a "part" of Verant. You make it sound like he was the mail room guy or something. Smedley was co-founder and head of Verant.
Also, you remember incorrectly.
Verant was fully absorbed into Sony like a month after Kunark, and Velious wasnt released for another 6 months after that.
How can you look to the future when you fail at history?
I quoted the wikipedia. Smedley was the guy who brought talent in back then, not the guy who told people that actually made fantasy games how to make fantasy games. I guess you also know more than the members of Verant that left to start their own company who never hid their reasoning.
Also, perhaps you aren't familiar with how development works, but the creation of the next expansion is already designed and being created after the previous expansion is released. In fact, kunark and velious were said to have been planned and in development before the game even launched. Really though, anyone who actually played EQ felt the continuity from classic to velious and how drastically things began to change after Velious. Its also no surprise that every popular EQ emulator runs classic-velious.
Originally posted by Dullahan Illogical conclusion. People with good ideas don't just go work for anyone. They work for people who understand the value of your ideas and who utilize them or they get people to work for them. Maybe you haven't been playing mmorpgs for the last decade, but theres been a lack of innovation and good ideas while everyone has been chasing WoW money. Look how many industry veterans have sought the opportunity to make another game themselves rather than join the trenches with mediocre talent as they slave away on shallow WoW clones. Innovators lead, they do not follow if they can help it.
You call them WoW clones, I call them failed attempts to copy WoW. If these developers aren't talented enough to copy the formula of a winning game, then how can you expect them to do any better at making something new?
Originally posted by Dullahan Illogical conclusion. People with good ideas don't just go work for anyone. They work for people who understand the value of your ideas and who utilize them or they get people to work for them. Maybe you haven't been playing mmorpgs for the last decade, but theres been a lack of innovation and good ideas while everyone has been chasing WoW money. Look how many industry veterans have sought the opportunity to make another game themselves rather than join the trenches with mediocre talent as they slave away on shallow WoW clones. Innovators lead, they do not follow if they can help it.
You call them WoW clones, I call them failed attempts to copy WoW. If these developers aren't talented enough to copy the formula of a winning game, then how can you expect them to do any better at making something new?
Apparently commercial success is the factor that determines whether a game is good for you. Not everyone's goal in life is to be the biggest success. Some people just want to create something they like, even if its not as popular.
I agree, they were failed attempts. The developers of games I'm following weren't foolish enough to waste their time trying to cash in on another games success. In retrospect, it was the right decision, and I hope you aren't really suggesting otherwise. Hindsight should be 20/20 here.
Originally posted by Dullahan Illogical conclusion. People with good ideas don't just go work for anyone. They work for people who understand the value of your ideas and who utilize them or they get people to work for them. Maybe you haven't been playing mmorpgs for the last decade, but theres been a lack of innovation and good ideas while everyone has been chasing WoW money. Look how many industry veterans have sought the opportunity to make another game themselves rather than join the trenches with mediocre talent as they slave away on shallow WoW clones. Innovators lead, they do not follow if they can help it.
You call them WoW clones, I call them failed attempts to copy WoW. If these developers aren't talented enough to copy the formula of a winning game, then how can you expect them to do any better at making something new?
Apparently commercial success is the factor that determines whether a game is good for you. Not everyone's goal in life is to be the biggest success. Some people just want to create something they like, even if its not as popular.
I agree, they were failed attempts. The developers of games I'm following weren't foolish enough to waste their time trying to cash in on another games success. In retrospect, it was the right decision, and I hope you aren't really suggesting otherwise. Hindsight should be 20/20 here.
I would have to agree with Dullahan here, I most likely can't like or hate a game for it's success alone, however if the game was changed only for the purpose of getting more and more subs for, then that's usually a sign that the game won't be for me due to the fact that usually those changes are to make the game easier or to hand out more free stuff so people don't have to work for it or don't have to depend on one another.
Originally posted by Dullahan Illogical conclusion. People with good ideas don't just go work for anyone. They work for people who understand the value of your ideas and who utilize them or they get people to work for them. Maybe you haven't been playing mmorpgs for the last decade, but theres been a lack of innovation and good ideas while everyone has been chasing WoW money. Look how many industry veterans have sought the opportunity to make another game themselves rather than join the trenches with mediocre talent as they slave away on shallow WoW clones. Innovators lead, they do not follow if they can help it.
You call them WoW clones, I call them failed attempts to copy WoW. If these developers aren't talented enough to copy the formula of a winning game, then how can you expect them to do any better at making something new?
Apparently commercial success is the factor that determines whether a game is good for you. Not everyone's goal in life is to be the biggest success. Some people just want to create something they like, even if its not as popular.
I agree, they were failed attempts. The developers of games I'm following weren't foolish enough to waste their time trying to cash in on another games success. In retrospect, it was the right decision, and I hope you aren't really suggesting otherwise. Hindsight should be 20/20 here.
Where do I state that financial success is a factor, let alone a factor I subscribe to? If they had at least done a decent job of copying WoW, their games would at least be fun even if not financial powerhouses. I play games for the fun and that is the "winning formula" that I go by. WoW could have been a miserable failure by financial standards, I but I would still find most of its gameplay entertaining.
I greatly enjoyed Vanguard and it had a horrible reputation, but I found it to be one of the most fun games I have played since original EQ.
Originally posted by Dullahan Illogical conclusion. People with good ideas don't just go work for anyone. They work for people who understand the value of your ideas and who utilize them or they get people to work for them. Maybe you haven't been playing mmorpgs for the last decade, but theres been a lack of innovation and good ideas while everyone has been chasing WoW money. Look how many industry veterans have sought the opportunity to make another game themselves rather than join the trenches with mediocre talent as they slave away on shallow WoW clones. Innovators lead, they do not follow if they can help it.
You call them WoW clones, I call them failed attempts to copy WoW. If these developers aren't talented enough to copy the formula of a winning game, then how can you expect them to do any better at making something new?
Apparently commercial success is the factor that determines whether a game is good for you. Not everyone's goal in life is to be the biggest success. Some people just want to create something they like, even if its not as popular.
I agree, they were failed attempts. The developers of games I'm following weren't foolish enough to waste their time trying to cash in on another games success. In retrospect, it was the right decision, and I hope you aren't really suggesting otherwise. Hindsight should be 20/20 here.
Where do I state that financial success is a factor, let alone a factor I subscribe to? If they had at least done a decent job of copying WoW, their games would at least be fun even if not financial powerhouses. I play games for the fun and that is the "winning formula" that I go by. WoW could have been a miserable failure by financial standards, I but I would still find most of its gameplay entertaining.
I greatly enjoyed Vanguard and it had a horrible reputation, but I found it to be one of the most fun games I have played since original EQ.
If these developers aren't talented enough to copy the formula of a winning game, then how can you expect them to do any better at making something new?
^there
Sorry if I'm misunderstanding what you were trying to say. The winning formula implies business success (money). Its mass appeal, ie making challenging things easier and more streamlined. That isn't the formula Pantheon is trying to emulate.
Call me cynical, but that game summary damn near looks like EVERY SINGLE game summary out there. Save yourself the heart ache and don't believe ANYTHING you read. Once you've actually put hands on the game then get excited. I'd love a game that brings EQ or aspects of EQ back, but we've been waiting for over 10 years for that to happen.
Originally posted by DeSadeWhirlfist I'd love a game that brings EQ or aspects of EQ back, but we've been waiting for over 10 years for that to happen.
I think that's the point and one of the main drivers for Brad wanting to make it. He stated in early kickstarter feeds that people had been asking for this for some time and that's the void they were trying to fill.
Originally posted by DeSadeWhirlfist I'd love a game that brings EQ or aspects of EQ back, but we've been waiting for over 10 years for that to happen.
I think that's the point and one of the main drivers for Brad wanting to make it. He stated in early kickstarter feeds that people had been asking for this for some time and that's the void they were trying to fill.
Again it doesn't matter what someone tells you, nor what you read. Until it's made and played its just a dream. Brad wanting to make it means nothing until its made. Brad and every other dev will tell you the sky is purple if it will make money. Here's an example of what dev's will tell you....Oh and look its from google and its FREE.
Originally posted by DeSadeWhirlfist I'd love a game that brings EQ or aspects of EQ back, but we've been waiting for over 10 years for that to happen.
I think that's the point and one of the main drivers for Brad wanting to make it. He stated in early kickstarter feeds that people had been asking for this for some time and that's the void they were trying to fill.
Again it doesn't matter what someone tells you, nor what you read. Until it's made and played its just a dream. Brad wanting to make it means nothing until its made. Brad and every other dev will tell you the sky is purple if it will make money. Here's an example of what dev's will tell you....Oh and look its from google and its FREE.
While I appreciate the humor your trying to use here, your logic could be said about any kickstarter anywhere? Are you saying we should by and large stop crowdfunding games then?
Originally posted by DeSadeWhirlfist Call me cynical, but that game summary damn near looks like EVERY SINGLE game summary out there. Save yourself the heart ache and don't believe ANYTHING you read. Once you've actually put hands on the game then get excited. I'd love a game that brings EQ or aspects of EQ back, but we've been waiting for over 10 years for that to happen.
I'm cynical to a degree as well, and honestly didn't back the kickstarter because it was all words and not much substance. Since then they've made some progress and they've stuck to their guns on the tenets through all the discussions here and on their site and its already showing in the game they're creating. I feel its still good to support ideas that I like because if nothing else it shows people there are still those who like them.
I have to disagree with one thing though. I've followed every major and most minor releases in the last 2 decades, and I haven't seen any game summary and tenets that line up with what Pantheon has listed there. Maybe a few things here or there, but their emphasis on group play, keeping the game harder and immersion over convenience is something that no other modern, or even future game boasts other than Pantheon.
Originally posted by DeSadeWhirlfist Call me cynical, but that game summary damn near looks like EVERY SINGLE game summary out there. Save yourself the heart ache and don't believe ANYTHING you read. Once you've actually put hands on the game then get excited. I'd love a game that brings EQ or aspects of EQ back, but we've been waiting for over 10 years for that to happen.
I'm cynical to a degree as well, and honestly didn't back the kickstarter because it was all words and not much substance. Since then they've made some progress and they've stuck to their guns on the tenets through all the discussions here and on their site and its already showing in the game they're creating. I feel its still good to support ideas that I like because if nothing else it shows people there are still those who like them.
I have to disagree with one thing though. I've followed every major and most minor releases in the last 2 decades, and I haven't seen any game summary and tenets that line up with what Pantheon has listed there. Maybe a few things here or there, but their emphasis on group play, keeping the game harder and immersion over convenience is something that no other modern, or even future game boasts other than Pantheon.
A lot of games try to promise the game will stay hard and won't difficulty won't be nerfed down the line. Sure enough when the sales are high but they're bleeding players, they all crumble and casualize their games to all hell. Happened to Tera, happened to Rift, happened to damn near every big mmo that released in the last decade.
The immersion over convenience won't even make it to release. Maybe make it to closed beta, but i guarantee you there will be plenty of convenience added in the game. As for the forced grouping. Gonna be fun to see this fail so hard to sustain any decent amount of numbers. It'll be one of the first things to go in the changes to keep/get new players shuffle they are undoubtedly going to go through.
Comments
Or maybe it is a great way to get money to fund the game and then do what all the rest have done, release it with 1/4 of what they said. Like another one said being old and have seen this with all the others I will believe it when I see it. Sorry man just can't trust them anymore. Too many promises made and then broken.
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
Maybe innovators lead, but they don't pocket $45k of the limited development funds for personal use.
They don't burn every single bridge they have in the industry, they actually "accomplish something", beyond making a lot of promises that are never kept.
Look, I agree that the genre needs a new direction and that includes making a game like an old school MMO.
But McQuaid is not the guy to make it, after all his "problems" and very questionable behavior.
The people making the game are going to be begging for more crowdfunding dollars soon, and based on all that has gone on, McQuaid et al, get no benefit of any doubt when it comes to "promises made".
They want to make this kind of game? They can do it on their own dime, and people can decide if they did the job by buying or not when it is "finished".
Giving them anything beforehand, after the last batch of cash was "mismanaged"?
No Way.
I don't disagree with point #2, but what makes you think #1 is fact after what happened with Vanguard? Yeah, the game still got made, but only because SOE bought it.
Actually, quite the opposite is happening. If you've paid attention to the recent changes, they are not pushing the crowdfunding route at all.
Earlier this year, they removed the cash shop. And the lifetime subscription reward is no longer being offered to new pledges as of February 26. It has also been mentioned that even more pledge rewards may go away as the development continues. Hardly considered "begging for more crowdfunding dollars" if you ask me...
If you don't like the idea of the game or the people making it, then by all means don't support it. But, don't come on here spreading lies to support your misguided beliefs.
Its sick to see people continue to propagate lies based on someones past mistakes.
As much respect as I have for some of the original Pantheon team members, they were already on their way out and it was obvious if you watched the updates. Indie game development isn't for every industry veteran. Pantheon money stayed largely with Pantheon, to continue making Pantheon. No crimes were committed, no charges brought up, so just stop trolling with second, third and fourth hand information.
Awesome! The more the merrier!
You people have romanticized McQuaid so much you now think he created EQ.
EQ was always a Sony property. Sony executive John Smedley hired McQuaid.
Verant was just the name of the team for EQ, they became their own development studio(as in, they were in a separate office building) with the release of EQ and later went back to the SOE offices a year later because EQ became a big success and Sony wanted to keep a closer eye on it.
While Smedley was part of Verant, the original team had more creative control in the first few years of EverQuest. Theres a reason the game changed so dramatically after Velious, the last expansion that was created while Verant was still in creative control.
Theres also a reason the main developers of EverQuest broke off and formed their own game company. You don't have to read too deep or speculate too much to figure out what it was.
As long as the game being produced is even 50% of EQ... the money my wife and I have put forth will have gone to good use in my opinion. I see tons of people cry every day about there not being any good games out and they are all clones, though I see many more people complaining that they can't do anything about it, when in fact they can. All they need to do is give a guy a chance and if he really did screw up... well that only proves he's human. I'm sure everyone here has screwed up royally once or twice in their lives. If not they are either extremely sheltered or lying. I'm not sure what $25-50 bucks is to most people who are die hard gamers, though this at least has a chance... without it we have nothing. So from one gamer to the next, I'm asking that if you're able... please help out. I know I would be very appreciative.
from Wikipedia SOE acquired Verant in June 2000, and eventually promoted Brad McQuaid to be its Chief Creative Officer.[2] In October 2001, McQuaid resigned and then founded Sigil Games Online, drawing many of the original developers of EverQuest from SOE.
While Smedley was part of Verant, the original team had more creative control in the first few years of EverQuest. Theres a reason the game changed so dramatically after Velious, the last expansion that was created while Verant was still in creative control.
Theres also a reason the main developers of EverQuest broke off and formed their own game company. You don't have to read too deep or speculate too much to figure out what it was.
Smedley was a "part" of Verant. You make it sound like he was the mail room guy or something. Smedley was co-founder and head of Verant.
Also, you remember incorrectly.
Verant was fully absorbed into Sony like a month after Kunark, and Velious wasnt released for another 6 months after that.
How can you look to the future when you fail at history?
I quoted the wikipedia. Smedley was the guy who brought talent in back then, not the guy who told people that actually made fantasy games how to make fantasy games. I guess you also know more than the members of Verant that left to start their own company who never hid their reasoning.
Also, perhaps you aren't familiar with how development works, but the creation of the next expansion is already designed and being created after the previous expansion is released. In fact, kunark and velious were said to have been planned and in development before the game even launched. Really though, anyone who actually played EQ felt the continuity from classic to velious and how drastically things began to change after Velious. Its also no surprise that every popular EQ emulator runs classic-velious.
Keep the hate alive though, its all you got.
You call them WoW clones, I call them failed attempts to copy WoW. If these developers aren't talented enough to copy the formula of a winning game, then how can you expect them to do any better at making something new?
Apparently commercial success is the factor that determines whether a game is good for you. Not everyone's goal in life is to be the biggest success. Some people just want to create something they like, even if its not as popular.
I agree, they were failed attempts. The developers of games I'm following weren't foolish enough to waste their time trying to cash in on another games success. In retrospect, it was the right decision, and I hope you aren't really suggesting otherwise. Hindsight should be 20/20 here.
I would have to agree with Dullahan here, I most likely can't like or hate a game for it's success alone, however if the game was changed only for the purpose of getting more and more subs for, then that's usually a sign that the game won't be for me due to the fact that usually those changes are to make the game easier or to hand out more free stuff so people don't have to work for it or don't have to depend on one another.
Where do I state that financial success is a factor, let alone a factor I subscribe to? If they had at least done a decent job of copying WoW, their games would at least be fun even if not financial powerhouses. I play games for the fun and that is the "winning formula" that I go by. WoW could have been a miserable failure by financial standards, I but I would still find most of its gameplay entertaining.
I greatly enjoyed Vanguard and it had a horrible reputation, but I found it to be one of the most fun games I have played since original EQ.
If these developers aren't talented enough to copy the formula of a winning game, then how can you expect them to do any better at making something new?
^there
Sorry if I'm misunderstanding what you were trying to say. The winning formula implies business success (money). Its mass appeal, ie making challenging things easier and more streamlined. That isn't the formula Pantheon is trying to emulate.
I think that's the point and one of the main drivers for Brad wanting to make it. He stated in early kickstarter feeds that people had been asking for this for some time and that's the void they were trying to fill.
Again it doesn't matter what someone tells you, nor what you read. Until it's made and played its just a dream. Brad wanting to make it means nothing until its made. Brad and every other dev will tell you the sky is purple if it will make money. Here's an example of what dev's will tell you....Oh and look its from google and its FREE.
http://www.google.com/tisp/install.html
While I appreciate the humor your trying to use here, your logic could be said about any kickstarter anywhere? Are you saying we should by and large stop crowdfunding games then?
I'm cynical to a degree as well, and honestly didn't back the kickstarter because it was all words and not much substance. Since then they've made some progress and they've stuck to their guns on the tenets through all the discussions here and on their site and its already showing in the game they're creating. I feel its still good to support ideas that I like because if nothing else it shows people there are still those who like them.
I have to disagree with one thing though. I've followed every major and most minor releases in the last 2 decades, and I haven't seen any game summary and tenets that line up with what Pantheon has listed there. Maybe a few things here or there, but their emphasis on group play, keeping the game harder and immersion over convenience is something that no other modern, or even future game boasts other than Pantheon.
A lot of games try to promise the game will stay hard and won't difficulty won't be nerfed down the line. Sure enough when the sales are high but they're bleeding players, they all crumble and casualize their games to all hell. Happened to Tera, happened to Rift, happened to damn near every big mmo that released in the last decade.
The immersion over convenience won't even make it to release. Maybe make it to closed beta, but i guarantee you there will be plenty of convenience added in the game. As for the forced grouping. Gonna be fun to see this fail so hard to sustain any decent amount of numbers. It'll be one of the first things to go in the changes to keep/get new players shuffle they are undoubtedly going to go through.