Originally posted by Bladestrom It's shallow because everything is about rotations and how to optimise them. Other More modern mmorpg have moved well away from this and the balance/épeen meter/spell rotation cycle and making sure you spam spam spam skills smoothly hour after hour after hour to get high percent uptime.
When claiming that modern MMOs have moved away from rotations, I find it only polite to at least mention 1 of them.
While there have been games that attempted to do so, i don't think any of them were actually successful, so i wouldn't hold up too much hope of any examples being held up for scrutiny anytime soon, or well, ever
Eso, gw 2, arch - these games are not driven by whore meters and who achieved 95% uptime etc etc. And since the first 2 makes millions of profit per year they are successful (regardless of you like them or not)
Older games 3 gw1, lotr, eve etc
Not all games have to be obsessed with 'metrics' to be fun.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
When will YOU figure it out, as many of us already have?
When will the Devs?
Why do people even make movies that aren't aimed at being the highest grossing film? The answer is YOU WOULDN'T, but I would.
You like McDonalds, I don't.
Your in the wrong genre, I AM NOT!
You can go back to whatever you were playing now Top grossing does not mean "DA BEST" but also just because something is top grossing doesn't mean it can't be "DA BEST". I am sure at this point your mind is blown away!
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
While true in a general sense, as a gameplay-centric player I'm still waiting for the MMORPG which surpasses WOW's combat and class design, including its crisp controls, responsive animations, rotation design, and mob design.
Some games come close, and those games still manage to be fun, but so far none have managed to be more fun.
Spot on,Wow's gameplay has always been fluid. Something other mmo companies just seem to ignore.
Huh? WoW's class design is just EQ's class design but simpler. It's NOT one of the game's strong points.
And there have been tons of MMOs with fluid animations and crisp controls. Let's not pretend that's what made WoW what it is.
Being the first MMO with a blockbuster budget, year long ad campaign, and a famous IP by a famous company is the bulk of why WoW is the way it is.
It's so funny to read these posts how people think that the only reason wow was successful was marketing and IP.
And I don't agree with you that the class design is simpler in WOW. And it is one of the game's strongest points. Every class was designed to be very unique and distinct. I haven't seen a single MMO with as fluid animations. EQ and EQ2 are a prime example of the most horrible animations know to man kind on the other hand.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Eso, gw 2, arch - these games are not driven by whore meters and who achieved 95% uptime etc etc. And since the first 2 makes millions of profit per year they are successful (regardless of you like them or not)
Older games 3 gw1, lotr, eve etc
Not all games have to be obsessed with 'metrics' to be fun.
Well I'm arguing that WOW's depth is a big part of its strength and longevity as a game. There's always something to learn, and practice is continually rewarded with higher 'uptime' as you term it. And that is game depth.
So by admitting these other games don't demand similar amounts of practice, you're outright admitting those other games aren't as deep. If your argument is "I agree that WOW is deeper than anything on the market, but I have fun with shallower games" then that's simply a personal opinion and I can't argue with it. But earlier you called WOW shallow.
I'm not saying those other games aren't successful. We're currently only really talking about whether WOW is shallow.
A game with tight tuning where the end result ("whore meters") is strongly dependent on player skill is a deep game. If you can name another game where skill is in higher demand, then you can say WOW isn't the deepest MMORPG. If you can name a lot of games where skill is in higher demand, then you can call WOW shallow.
But until then, you essentially just admitted that WOW is deeper than many MMORPGs, because it's the only one where success is as strongly dependent on skill. That is game depth.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
There is no fine steak mmorpg, because no game studio charge you 300$ per month.
People always seem to forget that there are all you can eat buffets, where you pay a flat price (similar to a monthly fee). However, the vast majority of all food is sold a la cart, or similar to a cash shop. In fact, it is generally perceived that a flat fee for food indicates lower quality....
When will YOU figure it out, as many of us already have?
When will the Devs?
Why do people even make movies that aren't aimed at being the highest grossing film? The answer is YOU WOULDN'T, but I would.
You like McDonalds, I don't.
Your in the wrong genre, I AM NOT!
You can go back to whatever you were playing now Top grossing does not mean "DA BEST" but also just because something is top grossing doesn't mean it can't be "DA BEST". I am sure at this point your mind is blown away!
Actually, if you really want your mind blown then here.
I can unequivocally say, without a doubt, and without uncertainty 100% the Top Grossing game IS the Best. Why? Well it's Top Grossing, meaning it's making a lot of money. Best is a subjective term, so if something is Top Grossing then it's obvious that at least one person thinks it's the best. So, yeah, The Top Grossing is ALWAYS The Best..... to someone
I'd be very interested to know how you can assert that the top grossing isn't the best. Either that or how you're even measuring "The Best"
Note: I'm sure this same logic came in at some point in the 150 posts, but I didn't read, soooooo, yeah, you know? Cause logic always prevails!
Comments
While there have been games that attempted to do so, i don't think any of them were actually successful, so i wouldn't hold up too much hope of any examples being held up for scrutiny anytime soon, or well, ever
Older games 3 gw1, lotr, eve etc
Not all games have to be obsessed with 'metrics' to be fun.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
You can go back to whatever you were playing now
Top grossing does not mean "DA BEST" but also just because something is top grossing doesn't mean it can't be "DA BEST". I am sure at this point your mind is blown away!
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
It's so funny to read these posts how people think that the only reason wow was successful was marketing and IP.
And I don't agree with you that the class design is simpler in WOW. And it is one of the game's strongest points. Every class was designed to be very unique and distinct. I haven't seen a single MMO with as fluid animations. EQ and EQ2 are a prime example of the most horrible animations know to man kind on the other hand.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Well I'm arguing that WOW's depth is a big part of its strength and longevity as a game. There's always something to learn, and practice is continually rewarded with higher 'uptime' as you term it. And that is game depth.
So by admitting these other games don't demand similar amounts of practice, you're outright admitting those other games aren't as deep. If your argument is "I agree that WOW is deeper than anything on the market, but I have fun with shallower games" then that's simply a personal opinion and I can't argue with it. But earlier you called WOW shallow.
I'm not saying those other games aren't successful. We're currently only really talking about whether WOW is shallow.
A game with tight tuning where the end result ("whore meters") is strongly dependent on player skill is a deep game. If you can name another game where skill is in higher demand, then you can say WOW isn't the deepest MMORPG. If you can name a lot of games where skill is in higher demand, then you can call WOW shallow.
But until then, you essentially just admitted that WOW is deeper than many MMORPGs, because it's the only one where success is as strongly dependent on skill. That is game depth.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
People always seem to forget that there are all you can eat buffets, where you pay a flat price (similar to a monthly fee). However, the vast majority of all food is sold a la cart, or similar to a cash shop. In fact, it is generally perceived that a flat fee for food indicates lower quality....
Actually, if you really want your mind blown then here.
I can unequivocally say, without a doubt, and without uncertainty 100% the Top Grossing game IS the Best. Why? Well it's Top Grossing, meaning it's making a lot of money. Best is a subjective term, so if something is Top Grossing then it's obvious that at least one person thinks it's the best. So, yeah, The Top Grossing is ALWAYS The Best..... to someone
I'd be very interested to know how you can assert that the top grossing isn't the best. Either that or how you're even measuring "The Best"
Note: I'm sure this same logic came in at some point in the 150 posts, but I didn't read, soooooo, yeah, you know? Cause logic always prevails!
Crazkanuk
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