When a game or any other activity becomes so narrowly focused on competitive behavior, be it ranks, levels, or the biggest mound of amassed shiny shit, there will be those with a obsessive compulsive personality who won't stop until they are best at everything. Even if "winning" means having to resort to nefarious methods to achieve this victory when such a thing is beyond their own natural skills to do so.
Gamers get their cues on acceptable behavior from sports. How many of you have watched a professional soccer game from the sidelines? I have. Cheating in soccer is happening constantly for all 90 minutes. Refs catch and call only the most blatant, game-impacting ones if they see those... probably less than 0.01% of the cheats.
The confusion and crazy rationalizations in many of the replies here shows how conflicted people are about the whole subject of cheating these days. Ask the same question 40 years ago and you'd get a resounding "cheating is inexcusable" response... and so it was and still is... but not that same answer these days is it?
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“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I have never cheated in a online game, played years of competition in battlefield and had to deal with cheaters all the time. They have ruined so many good games its not even funny.
but with all that said, if money was involved and i could get rich you better believe i would cheat my ass off to win.
Originally posted by Ludwik Cheating is entirely subjective.
Steroids are considered cheating. Supplements are considered not.
would certainly hope you know why steroids isnt legal, as a way to giving yourself a performance boost, it have nothing to do with cheating versus not cheating.
Isn't using steroids a catch 22 though? You got all that muscle pretty quick, But didn't your Mini Me just get hit with a witch doctor's shrinking spell. Not only that you now have Moobs and the male version of pms. So doesn't that add up to you cheating your self? Oh yeah why does Grakulen remind me of the Angry Nerd.
Make fun, but killing bugged mobs that cant fight back is cheating. Your char is gaining exp and loot on a broken system. Like I said everyone cheats. It ok, I wont judge you. My point is, why do we cheat? Everyone does its human nature. Just some people will cross every line and some have set standards. I cheat in every MMO as I use a Naga mouse and a Blackwidow Keyboard. Mind you its tame in its use. I dont do looping macros. Things like press one button to mark a NPC on my hunter and send in my pet at the same time. None the less thats a cheat =-)
Then we disagree greatly on what is actually 'cheating' in a game.
I already got this vibe from your previous posts... but, now I'm convinced, you're saying all this for your own benefit. You're trying to convince yourself that your own actions are okay... because "everyone cheats!".
Only... not everyone does.. especially not by your extremely liberal definition. So, you should really stop projecting behavior on to others in order to justify it in yourself. Others aren't a crutch for your own peace-of-mind.
Hell, you're even going into this whole explanation of how you use a Naga and a Blackwidow... immediately explaining that you don't do looping macros, etc. Why do you feel the need to explain all this? You have a guilty conscience or something? With no offense intended... I couldn't care less what peripherals you use to play the game - as long as it's you playing.
As for your "confessed cheating"....
Are you at the keyboard, pressing the keys on your blackwidow, and controlling the Naga yourself? Yes? Then you're not cheating.
Are you afk, sleeping, eating, at a movie or otherwise allowing a script/bot to automatically control your character? Yes?> Then you're cheating.
It's really that simple, and it's the same standard I've seen applied by pretty much every MMO I've played.
So, if you want to go on happily exclaiming to the world, "Yes! I cheat! It's true!! And I LIKE it!" then hey... follow your bliss and all that.
But own it, and speak for yourself.
And to reiterate what I said earlier... even if everyone did cheat.. it wouldn't make it "okay". You don't justify bad behavior by pointing to similar or worse behavior.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle Everyone cheats and lies just to different degrees. Most think nothing of cheating in a game. I have even heard the most honest person I know get upset when they missed an exploit in a game.
Hardly. What would be the point of cheating in a game?
I play games to challenge myself and cheating will take away any fun from beating something hard, particularly whn I defeat another player who have the odds in his/her favor.
It is simple: people who suck and have no intention of trying to better themselves cheat.
Of course in a singleplayer game you can do anything you want but I still don't see any point of cheating there either. And considering how simple MMOs are today you must suck really hard to need to cheat.
So not even once you saw a bugged NPC, or even with messed up pathing and killed it for EXP or loot? Come on now, be honest.
EDIT: Other small cheats, 3rd part macros like a Naga mouse or gaming keyboard.
Nanfoodle, you're making some really, ridiculously inane equivalencies here.
It also seems like you're trying to defend and justify your own behavior by projecting it on others.
There is no equivalency between someone coming across and killing a random bugged mob, for however often that happens to begin with... Killing a random bugged mob is not giving you an unfair advantage over others. It's not "breaking the game". It's killing a random bugged mob, which will then respawn like normal.
That has absolutely no equivalence to someone using bots/hacks/exploits to circumvent entire chunks of gameplay, or get an unfair advantage over others who are playing legit... or someone who eBays money/items/characters to bypass playing and earning those things themselves, etc. etc.
It's amazing that you would even attempt to put those things on the same level.
So really, nanfoodle... Who are you trying to convince here. Us, or yourself?
And anyway... asserting "well everyone cheats in some way!" does not make it "okay".
I didn't think by reading his post that he meant that cheating was "ok". Only that in some way everyone has cheated. I don't think that "everyone" has intentionally cheated in games, but I can say that EVERYONE has cheated at something in their life at some point. What each person cheats at, I believe, is dependent on how they're raised. What their parent's have taught them as being "ok" and what isn't. Someone mentioned that cheating was subjective, and I find that to be entirely true.
I think it has a lot to do with being disconnected via the internet. The same mentality that allows people who would never steal a car or shoplift to pirate movies or music comes into play, I think. It's like the internet meme "Imagine I stole your car but it was still there in the morning." People rationalize that they are not hurting anyone. Sure you could lay some Virtue or Kantian Ethics on them and say they are hurting themselves but I doubt they care. They are not seeing any immediate harm done. Let’s face it getting taken down by a cheater sucks, but it’s not going to kill you or even actually harm you in any tangible way. Just as challenging yourself in a video game does not really count for much, IMO. Sure you boost your self-esteem but unless your are one of the very few who make a living playing video games then it does not really matter in the grand scheme of things. One trip to donate blood and maybe keep someone alive counts for far more than every raid completed or boss taken down in all games----EVER, as far as I am concerned. In the final analysis it is entrainment, not world politics. Not of this is to that this makes cheating right but people tend not to things of internet interactions in the same way as real world interactions. We see people all the time do and say things while anonymous online that they would never come close to doing in real life. Then there are the cheaters on gold farms the world over who are doing it for gain in the real world, they go a step beyond and really could care less what is said about them, they are in it for the money.
Originally posted by Sulaa Existance of cheating in any kind of multiplayer games or competition between people is whole reason why even Cash Shops function as a concept - they allow people to buy cheats for $.
It's the other way around. Cash Shops are not the result of software bugs (these make hacking possible in the first place), neither they are the result of people's "cheaty behaviour" - that's just an excuse for hiding the real purpose of Cash Shops.
In capitalism, the production criteria is profit. And Cash Shops are exactly that, cheating in the form of a commercial product, which leaves out the need of using hacking and compromising your agreement as a player with the software company.
Comments
Gamers get their cues on acceptable behavior from sports. How many of you have watched a professional soccer game from the sidelines? I have. Cheating in soccer is happening constantly for all 90 minutes. Refs catch and call only the most blatant, game-impacting ones if they see those... probably less than 0.01% of the cheats.
The confusion and crazy rationalizations in many of the replies here shows how conflicted people are about the whole subject of cheating these days. Ask the same question 40 years ago and you'd get a resounding "cheating is inexcusable" response... and so it was and still is... but not that same answer these days is it?
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I have never cheated in a online game, played years of competition in battlefield and had to deal with cheaters all the time. They have ruined so many good games its not even funny.
but with all that said, if money was involved and i could get rich you better believe i would cheat my ass off to win.
Thanks for all the feedback everyone. Some of you I completely agree with and others have at least opened my eyes to another way to look at it.
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Isn't using steroids a catch 22 though? You got all that muscle pretty quick, But didn't your Mini Me just get hit with a witch doctor's shrinking spell. Not only that you now have Moobs and the male version of pms. So doesn't that add up to you cheating your self? Oh yeah why does Grakulen remind me of the Angry Nerd.
Then we disagree greatly on what is actually 'cheating' in a game.
I already got this vibe from your previous posts... but, now I'm convinced, you're saying all this for your own benefit. You're trying to convince yourself that your own actions are okay... because "everyone cheats!".
Only... not everyone does.. especially not by your extremely liberal definition. So, you should really stop projecting behavior on to others in order to justify it in yourself. Others aren't a crutch for your own peace-of-mind.
Hell, you're even going into this whole explanation of how you use a Naga and a Blackwidow... immediately explaining that you don't do looping macros, etc. Why do you feel the need to explain all this? You have a guilty conscience or something? With no offense intended... I couldn't care less what peripherals you use to play the game - as long as it's you playing.
As for your "confessed cheating"....
Are you at the keyboard, pressing the keys on your blackwidow, and controlling the Naga yourself? Yes? Then you're not cheating.
Are you afk, sleeping, eating, at a movie or otherwise allowing a script/bot to automatically control your character? Yes?> Then you're cheating.
It's really that simple, and it's the same standard I've seen applied by pretty much every MMO I've played.
So, if you want to go on happily exclaiming to the world, "Yes! I cheat! It's true!! And I LIKE it!" then hey... follow your bliss and all that.
But own it, and speak for yourself.
And to reiterate what I said earlier... even if everyone did cheat.. it wouldn't make it "okay". You don't justify bad behavior by pointing to similar or worse behavior.
I didn't think by reading his post that he meant that cheating was "ok". Only that in some way everyone has cheated. I don't think that "everyone" has intentionally cheated in games, but I can say that EVERYONE has cheated at something in their life at some point. What each person cheats at, I believe, is dependent on how they're raised. What their parent's have taught them as being "ok" and what isn't. Someone mentioned that cheating was subjective, and I find that to be entirely true.
I think it has a lot to do with being disconnected via the internet. The same mentality that allows people who would never steal a car or shoplift to pirate movies or music comes into play, I think. It's like the internet meme "Imagine I stole your car but it was still there in the morning." People rationalize that they are not hurting anyone. Sure you could lay some Virtue or Kantian Ethics on them and say they are hurting themselves but I doubt they care. They are not seeing any immediate harm done. Let’s face it getting taken down by a cheater sucks, but it’s not going to kill you or even actually harm you in any tangible way. Just as challenging yourself in a video game does not really count for much, IMO. Sure you boost your self-esteem but unless your are one of the very few who make a living playing video games then it does not really matter in the grand scheme of things. One trip to donate blood and maybe keep someone alive counts for far more than every raid completed or boss taken down in all games----EVER, as far as I am concerned. In the final analysis it is entrainment, not world politics. Not of this is to that this makes cheating right but people tend not to things of internet interactions in the same way as real world interactions. We see people all the time do and say things while anonymous online that they would never come close to doing in real life. Then there are the cheaters on gold farms the world over who are doing it for gain in the real world, they go a step beyond and really could care less what is said about them, they are in it for the money.
It's the other way around. Cash Shops are not the result of software bugs (these make hacking possible in the first place), neither they are the result of people's "cheaty behaviour" - that's just an excuse for hiding the real purpose of Cash Shops.
In capitalism, the production criteria is profit. And Cash Shops are exactly that, cheating in the form of a commercial product, which leaves out the need of using hacking and compromising your agreement as a player with the software company.