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Stop saying Horde is BAD!
Paladin101
Member Posts: 187
I keep seeing people post on various forums that the Horde is the bad side. This is not true at all. Warcraft is not a good vs. evil game when you compare both factions. The humans are certinaly more evil and corrupt than the orcs and tauren.
I hope people can understand that the horde is not the "Bad Side"... the bad guys are the scourge, burning legion, and you could argue if Illidan alliance is good or bad.
I do recall the orcs being the first to heed the warning of the Prophet Medievh and being the first to extend a hand of friendship to the alliance. I also recall the alliance being the ones to betray the Warchief and the Horde.... the alliance are nothing but backstabbing dogs.
Comments
I might be wrong but I see nothing bad for being on evil side in the game.
And it would be exaggeration to call trolls, orcs and undead good guys
...
Actually the orcs are good, being a warrior race doesnt mean your bad. Tauren are better than any of the races , you could argue the NE are on the same level with the Tauren but i see far less corruption in the Tauren then the NE.
Trolls and Undead are definetly on a darker side of the spectrum.
It isn't an exaggeration to call orcs and Tauren good because they are protectors of the world, they were the key race to defeating the Burning Legion.
When i'm playing as the Horde, i don't feel im the evil one, yet the alliance are the ones that are always trying to expand and exterminate now. Yes the orcs were once the mightiest and most bloodthirsty of all the races but now they are a peaceful yet warrior/shamanistic culture. Orcs now do not have the bloodlust for battle so they arent always on an offensive anymore.
Quite honestly i liked the orcs more when they were bloodthirsty and destroyed everything in their path, but ive come to like the new shamanistic horde. Especially the Tauren, although the undead are traitors and i don't trust any undead player.
Actually if you read some of the Warcraft D&D roleplaying books, you'll see that the orcs are classified more as neutral than good. Even Thrall, who has an alignment of LN (Lawful Neutral) considers the Horde first and everything else later. True, he isn't a bloodthirsty and savage killer, but look at what he's allowing to go on in Ashenvale, all those trees destroyed to help expand the Horde's forces and territories. They're every bit as expansive as any Alliance race that I know of. And the humans aren't really expanding at this point, they're just trying to win back what was taken from them.
As for Tauren, I don't see how they can be considered "less corrupt" than, say, the dwarves? True, dwarves cut down trees and mine into mountains for minerals and stuff, but in the general side they're dependable in a fight, honorable, willing to go the extra distance for their allies, and are generally good company.
"the Horde first and everything else later"
yes that's true but the horde is a union of races looking for protection from the rest of the world that hates them. Trolls are trying to find a new meaning to life other than evil, and the forsaken are trying to find something other than mindless servitude.
I don't see any cities or large populations in ashenvale? All i see are dangerous creatures and lots of trees for new homes. The Horde is getting larger and are surrounded by swarms of dangerous tribes of quillbor and centaur tribes. Ashenvale is the perfect plce to set up new cities and outposts to make the Horde the strongest nation.
Trees are made for several purposes, and making lumber from trees isnt bad, it one of their purposes. Just like hunting wild game has a purpose... survival of the strongest and the Horde certinaly is the strongest. If the Night elves want to put trees before people, then the Night elves don't deserve ashenvale anymore and their new neighbor can be the new land owner. They are welcome to try, but sadly they can't stop the Horde. If cenarius couldn't stop the orcs, what makes you think the curent Night Elf leaders can?
Don't try to argue that the chaos orcs were better because the Current horde beat them as well.
Yes the Horde is making lumber mills in Ashenvale, but they arent deforesting all the land, they are taking what is necessary. If the Night elf want to be upset then they should look at their own allies and see all the trees and mines they make.
The Horde
Excuse me, but it took cooperation with Jaina and the human refugees for the orcs to push back the Burning Legion and the chaos orcs, and if the Orcs had been there alone on might Hyjal, just as if the NE or the humans had been their alone, they wouldn't have stood a chance. If I remember right, weren't the humans the first line of defense against Archimonde's legion, then the orcs?
Bottom line is that there area good number of times Horde had to share victory with someone else, because they couldn't handle it solo.
The Night Elves ancestral home was Ashenvale forest. The place is sacred to them, which is a perfectly good reason for them to be pissed off about orcs cutting down trees. To the NE, that's the equivallent of someone bashing their way into your home and robbing the place, and since they consider trees to be living things, they'd chalk it up to murder as well.
True, I doubt that the NE would be impressed with what humans and dwarves do to their lands, but those are human and dwarf lands. The NE are not about to start going over there to start telling other races on how to live in their lands.
Also true, the NE are stingy about what goes on in Ashenvale. Even Malfurion Stormrage will ask humans and other allies to leave if they begin to overstay their welcome(at least he would have if he were still around), but you know what they say. A man's home is his castle, and I'm sure the NE agree when it comes to their home called Ashenvale.
That wasn't a baby that got eaten it was a Gnome, can be confusing to tell a difference but it's true.
I know a gnome warrior who enjoyed walking around Elwynn forest randomly slaughtering the milk cows...wait, this last one had armor and a sword.
The humans barely did anything to fight the chaos orcs. They were struggling to survive in that battle. The Shamanistic Horde showed their true colors.
Ashenvale is no longer under the Night elf control and it now belongs to the Orc. You don't like it, then i guess that's too bad for the Night Elf. When they joined with the alliance they only doomed themselves to die with the rest of the traitors that the alliance are.
The Night elf have new neighbors and they showed them where their loyalty lies when they joined the other side, a saide they hates the Horde. It is only natural thrall is ordering settlements to be built further into a isolated forests. I don't see the Night elves doing much about weeding the corruption out of the forest anyhow.
If the NE were smart they would realise that the alliance is too busy defending itself against the trogg and scourge in lorderon. The NE are not being supported fully by the alliance and they can't stop the Horde from further moving into their "Sacred" forest. If they new what was good they would let them have the southern ashenvale forest or they risk full scale invasion into the Northern territory.
To put it frank, your all screwed.
Gnomes killing a tauren....i havent seen that happen yet. What a bunch of pathetic allies the Night elf are with. I'll show some mercy when im helping in the battle in Ashenvale slaughtering the Elves.
So, basically you're saying that the Horde has "conquered" Ashenvale. Not really, it's still 70% in the hands of the NE, and I have to disagree that the Horde have the strength to completely take over Ashenvale. Even if they could, it would be too costly in orc, tauren, and troll lives to justify the gains.
What of the undead though? The humans, dwarves, and gnomes could head north and take back Lorderon as well by your logic, considering that the Horde in Kalimdor have their problems with quillboar and centaur forces. Would the Horde come to the aid of their undead allies if such an invasion took place? I know the alliance would support the NE if Thrall decided to move north.
And also by saying that the horde has "conquered" Ashenvale, which clearly was night elf territory, and that we're all "screwed", then you've just made an arguement to the Horde being "Bad"!!
Cheers!
PS: If you haven't seen a gnome kill a tauren yet, you obviously haven't been playing WoW for that long. I've seen a pretty good number of occurances where a gnome warrior took down a tauren warrior of equal level. I've also seen tauren warriors kill gnome mages and warlocks, so I guess it all decides on who's behind the char.
They just rock.
"PS: If you haven't seen a gnome kill a tauren yet, you obviously haven't been playing WoW for that long."
You dirty liar!
By the Way, i am well aware that the forsaken are surrounded by the scourge and alliance, that is only a better for us. The forsaken are not going to be taken down easily and provide a useful distraction while we invade North. The forsaken are dispensible and to loose the undead as an ally would mean little to the Horde.
If the Night elf were rational they would have joined the Horde and their Tauren druid bretheren. They chose war and that is what they are going to get. Yes the NE own most of the Ashenvale forest for now, but that is because we just begun to invade.
PLEASE don't make me laugh... the centaur and Quillboar are a threat... hahaha you must be kidding? We tire of slaying pathetic pigs and horses. The Night Elf will proove to be far better game to war with.
I hope i see you on the battlefield sometime elf
If the Horde were to abandon the undead, that just further proves that the Horde are BAD. Why? Well, mistake it may have been to begin with to join up with them, the two races still need each other at this point, no matter how you might deny it. This is out of Thrall's own mouth that the Horde was in need of allies to help contend with their enemies, so they sign the undead into the horde as an alliance of convienience. No doubt that Thrall would rather not having anything to do with the undead, but it's still fraternizing with an evil force bent on killing all but themselves in the end. Even so, to abandon them when their allies most need them, evil or no, would be most dishonorable and cowardly of the Horde to do. And then they would be minus one valuable ally and plus one dangerous enemy, provided that the undead survived the invasion.
On the other hand. If orc, tauren, and troll forces decided to invade night elf lands further, they wouldn't have just night elves to deal with. They would have human paladins, warriors, mages to contend with, dwarven hunters and warriors, not to mention the ever feared gnomish magi and warlocks, standing with their night elf allies. Even with all the probs the humans have in their lands, they would still come to aid the night elves, whether they would need that help or not. End result: same as the bunch of other times in the past when raiding horde force try to sack Astranaar or Auberdine, they get sent home with their tail between their legs to lick their wounds, and then we confidently counter attack and march south, kick some friggin' orcish and tauren ass, burn the Crossroads to the ground, and proceed to feed our enemies' remains to our kittens and cute little welsh corgies.
At any rate, you have seriously stepped away from the main argument that the Horde are no longer BAD, and are just trying to argue that they're more kickass than the alliance. But with each post, you're saying that the Horde are going to raid in and kick some Night Elf tail, which would be bad on their part, and also they would abandon the Undead, which would be dishonorable for them to do, and hence also a bad thing. You're just pwning yourself anymore it seems, so I'll leave you to your own flights of fancy and just laugh at you from afar.
Horde are ugly and you SMELL! Furthermore, you embrace and animate the dead to make them undead.
As a paladin who has sworn to uphold valor and dignity, I hate you hordelets and all must die!
...seriously what a stupid comment to make. Its obvious that the horde are the heel of Warcraft lore. Play who you want to play, but I don't think theres any question about the perception of who the "good guys " are vs who the "bad guys" are.
Leaving the udnead behind is like leaving them in the grave where they already died before.
The humans, dwarves, and gnomes are nothing without their elf allies.
All i have to say is Shaman are better than any of your classes, Undead rogues are better than your rogues, and Undead priests are better than your priests. Troll + orc hutners are far better than dwarves, and Orc + undead warlocks are tougher than gnome warlocks. Tauren warriors eat up your warriors and so therefore you have nothing in my view except a large zerging force.
BG has prooven who is better, the Horde
you cna laugh as the horde tramples your puny ass in the BG.
So which is it? Are undead just good for leaving to their deaths, or are undead rogues and priests worthy to have as allies to the Horde? Dude, you flip-flop worse than John Kerry.
I hope you don't fight like you argue, otherwise it would be kind of embarassing to watch you cut your own feet off before you even reach the Alliance staring you down.
At any rate, live in whatever fantasy you wish, because I've lived and seen much that refutes what you think you know. Shaman are a cool class, I played one to 46 and had lots of fun with them, but vs. Paladins and warriors they have the tendency to get owned sometimes, especially vs. paladins.
Gnome warriors, though not as strong as tauren warriors, have made T-Bone steaks out of them, to say nothing of dwarf warriors (my favorite) and gnome magi (who are the bane of almost any warrior).
I agree with what you say about undead rogues being the best, maybe troll rogues too, but orcs? vs. Gnomes? Nah, I give that one to the gnome.
You do realize that gnomes are the most intelligent race in the game, don't you? To say that orc and undead make better warlocks, or that trolls and undead make better mages... Well, that's like comparing Einstein to Bobo the Clown.
And I can laugh as the horde tramples my puny elf ass into the ground? Well, you're certainly welcome to try, provided you can get past my grasping roots and catch me, outdamage my ability to heal, all the while I spam moonfire on top of your head. Then I shift into bear or cat form, wade in, and eat you for lunch. Mmmm, char broiled tauren hamburger, just the way I like it.
Clicky
Lol, I need to see Paladin go buck ass crazy in this thread too.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
I have no intention of taking it that far. I'm in hot water with the MODS already by calling some forum trolls assholes a short while ago, so if this starts getting into something like that then I'll kindly step away and bid Mr. Paladin a nice life with the Horde.
Thankfully though, this is just a silly thread about Horde vs. Alliance, nothing RL like politics and religion, subjects I refuse to touch even with a twenty foot hayfork.
I have to say though, that post was friggin' disturbing...
I will agree with Paladin in thinking that the Horde isn't necessarily the 'bad' side in WoW. Although Orcs were part of the Burning Legion, it was a group of Night Elves that was responsible for bringing the Legion in the first place. If you're not that familar with the mythology, it's easy to make the assumption that the Horde is the 'bad' side, while the Alliance is 'good'.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Personally NE are the most evil race out there, and to prove my point ill give you a run down of evil genious traits
-Tryed to Destroy the world? check
- Spawned genetic yet more evil copies of themsleves?(Naga/Satyr/High Elves) check
-Stuck up and elitist? check
- Listen to Alanis Morsiette? well.. no
3/4 evil Genious agree night evles are f'ing evil
The alliance is full of evil races:
The Gnomes nuked themselves
The dwarves are under the same production philosophy of the orcs but because they arent green exploit being apart of the Alliance.
Night Elves brought into this world evil and vile creatures, Naga/Satyr/The Burning Legion, and making Blood Elves evil.
The humans are the worst. They won't ally with anything that isnt a natural hue. The do crusades against people that used to be thier trusted friends and allies who defended them against the encroaching evil, after the rest of the humans sold them out and ran, The Forsaken. And you cant forget they did an invasion on thier once allied horde for no other reason but because they werent a natural hue.
The horde however is by far the nicest race:
They welcome the exiled blood elves and Forsaken with open arms and help them get things done.
Thrall the leader of the Orcs is badass and kicked the burning legions butt.
The witch doctor Trolls help keep things pure by cleansing the evil within ones heart, Like those cowardice night elves in the Stone Talon mountains who were scouting horde weaknesses and invading.
The Tauren are the best thing that has ever happened to this world. Without them everyone knows this world would just be one big crater in the ground. They plant trees, Make sure the dead get to rest in peace, check out any possibilities of EVIL. Kill the races that burn and ruin the land, Quilboars, Centaur, and dwarves. They are the front line defense against the invading night elves.
The only thing holding the horde back is that the women arent that good looking, but it comes with benefits. You know all the horde women are really women in real life. Not to mention Blood Elves will change that.