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Why North American MMORPG market is a PROBLEM?
Wraithclaws
Member UncommonPosts: 53
If you know about korean/asian mmorpg you will notice that lately, they release games @ Russia before than USA.
I can say Archeage, Black Desert, Blade and Soul and Skyforge(I know dev is russian).
What reason make developers think twice before releasing a title at USA? Some of them will prob NEVER be released here.
Is it players? We have alot of trolls that want to play, usually for free, or spend almost NO money. Everything is a reason to yell "P2W" and try to force ppl leave (forums/reddit) this or that game (Archeage was the last I've played)
I can say about Icarus Online and Bless (between alot of games) that developers are really thinking ALOT before going to NA market
Is NA market profitable as 5 years ago?
Comments
Simple, these games are P2W, and russian ppl like P2W games, in NA or EU games with this model ppl dont like it.
PD: Sorry for my english, I hope you understand me, bb.
l2p
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Don't you think NA players became asking for more and want to spend less? Because anything they call P2W nowadays..
I notice a group of players jumping from a hype to another, being toxic and trying to ruin those games..
I don't think "Blade and Soul" or "Black Desert" is a "crap" P2W
I just found weird that in the last ~3years all developers launch games in Russia, before USA.
They can keep their crap games over there.
You bring up an interesting point OP, I also wonder why many Asian mmos release in Russia first, or seem to have problems coming to the west (also interesting how pretty much unknown games like Swordsman and BlackGold suddenly end up on our doorstep).
I don't know exactly what the reason is, but I do know that most mmos from that area are indeed p2w. Something like Tera isn't pay to win and that is doing pretty well.
If you get a game like Archeage, Trion took over a year to bring it to NA market, they said alot about "westernization"..
I think they removed some P2W from Archeage (if you compare to Korean version), but even with this westernization, Archeage is having population issues.
The NA market is MORE profitable than it was 5 years ago...
However, other things have changed.as well. The market is MUCH more competitive. F2P is commonplace, with AAA games already converted, and new games launching as F2P, or converting quickly.
The other change is the Russian market. It is MUCH larger than the US/EU market, almost as large as China. It has quickly matured to the point where there is a huge demand for games... but the supply has not kept up.
The bottom line is this. Developers can try to publish their game in a saturated market, with tough competition and slow growth.... or they can try to publish in an empty market, with little competition, and huge growth. You can see what they choose to do.
Maybe part of the reason is the us dollar is weaker than euros? Maybe from another country's perspective that is more appealing.
[mod edit]
Cookie cutter L2 skinned games are ripped off and mass produced in Asia. Anyone and everyone who had a hand in Lineage, broke off, stole design secrets, and made their own games. Problem is that they take forever to regionalize and NO ONE wants to distribute games in NA with the kinds of RETARDED cash shop restrictions that the ASIAN companies put on the game. ALL of these games are looking for a quick buck. Bc they are released 1-2 years in advance in Asia, they come pre-loaded with bots and gold farmer sites ready to go. The game producers themselves make HUGE amounts of money off the RMT that happens in the first few months of the latest and greatest "hot" asian title. They dont care if the game fizzles.. they can go reskin it.. put some giant bouncing tits and show some panties on an elf caster, and BOOM, resell under a different title.
The reason these games dont make it to NA is because they are designed from the ground up to last only 6-9 months in the NA market. Distributors are starting to realize that marketing this type of shit product is going to hurt you more from bad word of mouth that gets associated with shitty game + your company.
Case in point: Trion was a decent company with RIFT and Defiance. Neither were great games, but they were at least respectable. Along comes XLGames and now Trion is a laughing stock.
Communist countries dont yet know how to vote with their wallet. They still would rather try to cheat and backdoor stuff in order to make an easy profit. It comes from the mentality that NOTHING got done in these countries withouth bribes/cheating to begin with. Now, along comes capitalism yet the people are still too lazy to let the system work. This nasty little cultural habit rears its head in the video game industry as well. If you want a game to make money in NA.. make it GOOD. Dont expect us to run around jumping up and down for piece of crap L2 skinned games that are just looking to make a quick buck and exit stage left.
I don't know what you're talking about. Nintendo has the best North American MMORPG company and other gaming market on the planet from the east. But Nintendo has always been reviving and keeping alive gaming in the west.
The only problem in the North American MMORPG market is when people don't adhere to North American Law, I would reckon'.
[mod edit]
Asians games (specially koreans) are quite better than anything USA made lately.. I can talk about Archeage, Bless, Black Desert, Blade and Soul just to say some examples. They aren't just crash grab L2 like games, they are quite good, so good that NA players actually make unofficial patches to play it in english (yep you should know about it).
I don't remember ANY US/EU MMORPG that actually last for the last 2 years. We have TESO, that gone B2P, Wildstar almost dead, not a single title. I guess the last AAA that actually survived is GW2, which is quite a nice game btw.
We only have Wow left, I can't personaly say it is a good game, but it has a good fan-base (Let's be honest, otherwise would be dead now)
Korean market = huge amount of titles, leader of MMORPG market
Russian = prob alot of players, but they get all AAA first
USA = bleh, 1-2 years to get a westernized title that eventualy dies in 6 months
So what really happend? Is it NA player base toxic? Is it laws/taxes?
1- I would say no, I'm not sure about Russian but definitely chinese market is WAY more profitable than US+EU+Russia all together, you have no idea how much chinese players spend.
2- I don't know about US laws regulating online purchases, players say alot about it when complaining about RNG boxes and usually NA publishers says "bleh" (really you should play archeage NA lol)
3- I agree about NA competition, maybe US has less players than Russia today and I notice that NA players complain alot, about everything.. Its a hard customer, at least
4- Western playerbase complain alot, for my experience with MMORPG, mostly NA complains about cash shop items and call everything P2W in a game. They not only complain but also make topics at reddit and all forums about "you should not play this game" like this http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/429225/WARNING-Stay-clear-of-Path-of-Exile.html
So It's a hell of a market, with trolls, spoiled kids that want everything for free and with no effort. You save 90% of players but those 10% make it not worth, for most publishers/developers lol
Its also cultural. The US has a lot more of an entitlement / instant gratification mentality and that boils down to entertainment too. Generally speaking the asian/russian communities are more willing to invest effort and time into something.
Whether thats "fun" or not is up to the person.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
The problem with the the North American Market is that developers for that market do not look at that market.
They keep on developing games to attract the maximum number of players even though most of those 'players' are not really customers and are therefore not part of the market. Those players want to play for free, the feel entitled to play for free because the games are advertised as "Free to Play".
If they want to start turning a profit the North American developers need to start focusing on customers and forget about those players. Customers spend money, money pays for development.
Russia get those AAA first, I'm saying that Korea dominates MMORPGs development
Well, Framm certainly doesn't seem to like Asian mmos released since L2, but let's be honest - you have already made up your mind that the reason for all the bad in the world of mmos in the west is because NA players are toxic. To me that speaks much more of prejudice/racism than Framm's post (although I totally disagree with what Framm says). There is no doubt the problem (if any) is far more complex than just "people in NA suck ".
Anyway, I agree with you that Asia (mainly Korea) is making some of, if not the most, innovative and vibrant mmos. All those games you mention look absolutely amazing. Even older games like Tera and Blade and Soul still have some of the most beautiful art in any mmo and ground breaking game mechanics. Perhaps the current state of affairs is more a reflection of some divergence in the artistic ability and inspiration of developers East and West rather than the player base?
At any rate, whatever the reason is behind the delays, I really wish we could play these amazing games and not have to wait many years for them to turn up on ours shores.
Less red tape,perhaps even easier to avoid taxes,has nothing to do with player base perspectives.
It is like saying why are all the devs building offices in Quebec,because the rest of the world is crap?No it is because they get enormous tax breaks there.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
There are lots of games produced in NA/EU while there are very few developers in russia and its always easier to compete on a market where most games are imported.
Language is a constant issue if you want to hit the european market as well.
Its fairly easy to do a quick localization of a game, but that also leads to butchered english.
Westerners prefer storybased PvE-games and the typical asian mmorpg aren't really good at providing that sort of experience.
That doesn't mean that asian games are doomed to fail, ff14, tera and archeage were successful in the west.
Is more expensive to bring a game in the NA market then Russia market is my understanding.
How are the console adoption rates in Russia/Korea? If they are fairly low, then developers might see them as more of a pc centric gaming environment, were as the west might still be seen as more console centric or a split market.
Pretty yes, if you like eastern style graphics and washed out color palettes. Innovative...how? Archeage or certainly many of the games scrolling around on this site are not innovative. Innovation is only innovation if it works. Held by the hand questing, grinding for xp and crafting are not innovative. What they are doing is making content the tertiary component and grinding, PVP their main attraction. This type of MMORPG is a step backward regardless of how it looks. Player housing, mounts, flying/gliding, gathering, refining and crafting are not new. About the only thing that is is the pigeon-holed court system in AA and even that was BS due to the fact that if people kept harassing you and you killed them you could go to court if you, yourself got killed. Most of these games are riddled with Bots, gold farmers and hackers due to the code that has been passed around and reused over and over.
I find Wraithclaws remarks somewhat insulting and just plain wrong. Oh and P2W IS a real thing. That fact that he doesn't understand it or why we hate it is telling. I don't know, maybe it is because I'm older. My favorite games involved just playing them. Inside the box there was a vast amount of content and you just sat down and played them. No bots and no gold farmers necessary. (I know, its just crazy)
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
Seriously! So, you're telling me that a generally poor country (talking about the general population) is spending and has the ability to spend more than a wealthy one. The average income in China for a family was 26,955 yuan that is the equivalent of $4326.02 USD. That's less then I make in a month and it's their entire yearly salary. I could spend an entire Chinese salary on gaming in a year and not really give a shit if I wanted to.
So, please can you explain the economics to me, as I find it very hard to believe?