Originally posted by VengeSunsoar But even back then people overwhelmingly chose the games that were more themeparkish.
Eq over everything else. Then wow over eq.
Yes i was one of them, but my reasoning was bakc then that at that point in like 2004 when i switched to WoW was because UO was 2d isometric and like fucking 6-7 years old by that time since 1997. Really no other AAA mmorpg was available around that time besides UO/EVE/SWG. I played UO and SWG but didn't discover EVE until after i was done with WOW in like 2005ish. I'll totally agree themeparks are way popular but its kind of unfair giving the attention they receive having hundreds of millions of dollars invested into each themepark game where we got old old games or like a piece of shit game like mortal online or darkfall *puke*.
Originally posted by BadSpock ... let's see. More players playing than ever? Check. Function of time, and doesn't positively impact me in anyway, so, irrelevent. More games available than ever? Check. When all the games are bad, this makes no difference. Next. More variety in setting and style? Check. Incorrect. Before 2004, I had about 10 radically different AAA MMOs to pick from, each filling its own niche. Now, if I want to play a AAA MMO, I have to play a WoW clone or just not play. More options in payment model? Check. And many of these payment models are leading to games designed to annoy you into paying more. So. More platforms to choose to play MMOs on? Check. Doesn't impact me at all.
Yup, sounds terrible.
Nice try.
Your "opinion" does not refute facts. Who cares what affects YOU. The genre certainly does not.
The genre is doing great right now. There are millions of more players playing. There are hundreds of more games to choose from. There is major money being made, even if 75% of the players play for free or pay very little at all.
Get over yourself already. *You* may not like the state the genre is in, like me, but that does not mean it is doing terribly. The genre is in its hey day right now.
Nothing has been mentioned about "quality." That is a personally defined term. Do not confuse the 2 ideas.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
You have a great point... This is the "best" time to be a gamer, but the "worst" time to be a hardcore MMORPG Gamer.
If you like casual games and the flashy graphics/free to play shops this is the best time for you. As a Veteran missing Star Wars Galaxies and Everquest 1, this is the worst time for us. We wanted games to improve and get more quality, instead they became clones and live off the cash shop. However, there are tons of awesome games to play, they are just all style and flash, with no substance to back them up. Variety and customization are minimal, as no one cares to delve into a game and stay, they want to jump ship in 1-3 months to shiniest "new big thing".
Even single player RPGs , etc. Or multiplayer Fps, can draw people away from MMORPGs, so you're competiting against every single new game release, not just other MMORPGs for this market.
Many have given up on MMORPGs, many have been lured away by MOBAs, or casual cell phone games or facebook applications. The true hardcore gamer is a tiny niche crowd, so we don't get many games, alas. It is just reality, that money talks, and we don't have enough money to compete against the public masses.
Well isn't that interesting. Those who think there are great games out use their time responding to this thread instead of playing said "great" games. How very... very.
Actions speak louder than words. If you are so content, you wouldn't be here - not to look for new games because you are satisfied - and you wouldn't be here trying to throw smart alleck comments at people who don't have their ideal game to play.
Yes ma'am, actions speak louder than words. I admit why I'm here - I'm unsatisfied. Too bad others can't do the same because it would be some sort of abomination to not like the current offerings. I'm not squeezing my square peg in the round hole and don't feel the need to pretend it's so.
Ha Ha Ha.. Isn't that the gospel truth.. My account here started when I started to tire of the boring same ole MMO formula.. I too am unsatisfied with what is out today.. Back in the hay day when I was enjoying old school mmo's I didn't have time, nor the desire to chat on forums..
Last 3 hours of the Kickstarter campaign, pledge you dum-dums, pledge your sweet little disenchanted hearts out at the altar of our new MMO overlords !
Last 3 hours of the Kickstarter campaign, pledge you dum-dums, pledge your sweet little disenchanted hearts out at the altar of our new MMO overlords !
Race/gender locked classes and unity as an engine... I'll pass.
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.
Well isn't that interesting. Those who think there are great games out use their time responding to this thread instead of playing said "great" games. How very... very.
Actions speak louder than words. If you are so content, you wouldn't be here - not to look for new games because you are satisfied - and you wouldn't be here trying to throw smart alleck comments at people who don't have their ideal game to play.
Yes ma'am, actions speak louder than words. I admit why I'm here - I'm unsatisfied. Too bad others can't do the same because it would be some sort of abomination to not like the current offerings. I'm not squeezing my square peg in the round hole and don't feel the need to pretend it's so.
Ha Ha Ha.. Isn't that the gospel truth.. My account here started when I started to tire of the boring same ole MMO formula.. I too am unsatisfied with what is out today.. Back in the hay day when I was enjoying old school mmo's I didn't have time, nor the desire to chat on forums..
Dumbest comments ever, so if you are playing and enjoying a game you can't possibly do anything else? Especially on a gaming forum where people discuss the games you enjoy? Really?
Well isn't that interesting. Those who think there are great games out use their time responding to this thread instead of playing said "great" games. How very... very.
Actions speak louder than words. If you are so content, you wouldn't be here - not to look for new games because you are satisfied - and you wouldn't be here trying to throw smart alleck comments at people who don't have their ideal game to play.
Yes ma'am, actions speak louder than words. I admit why I'm here - I'm unsatisfied. Too bad others can't do the same because it would be some sort of abomination to not like the current offerings. I'm not squeezing my square peg in the round hole and don't feel the need to pretend it's so.
Ha Ha Ha.. Isn't that the gospel truth.. My account here started when I started to tire of the boring same ole MMO formula.. I too am unsatisfied with what is out today.. Back in the hay day when I was enjoying old school mmo's I didn't have time, nor the desire to chat on forums..
Dumbest comments ever, so if you are playing and enjoying a game you can't possibly do anything else? Especially on a gaming forum where people discuss the games you enjoy? Really?
Don't be to harsh on them. Rydeson is just an old man who never grew up. He's lost touch with reality like most old people do and they don't realize their own foolishness because they refuse to let go of the past. They refuse to see the flaws of the past and they refuse to see that while some things may be worse off, the majority is actually a lot better then before.
Old people have a very narrowed perception. And anything that isn't inline with their perception, they rebuke and lash out against. Now while Rydeson obviously isn't actually "old", he has the same mentality of a lot of old people who can't let go of the past and just shout at others about how they should do what they did back in their day before computers were invented.
We are talking about voluntary leisure activities. Not just a couple of them, but hundreds to choose from. Instead of just playing with a different type of toy in your near endless toychest, you'd rather collectively complain about how none of the hundred versions of one particular toy are perfectly designed for just you.
Yes, dude... perspective.
If the bulk of toys in that "endless toychest" consist of cheap plastic Made in China Dollar Store kyfe, don't be all shocked and awed if the kiddies be a cryin'.
But the kiddies aren't all crying, just a select group of them is.
This group prefers to play with brown rubber ducks. Most other kids (the overwhelming majority) like yellow rubber ducks, so ofcourse the yellow ducks get made, simply because they sell best.
This prompts the brown rubber duck loving kids to constantly yell "You suck! Your ducks are crap! You are stupidz!" at all the neighbors' kids who enjoy using the yellow ones.
Its more like 1 group of kids who like rubber ducks, and 1 group that likes new fancy paper mache ducks. The paper mache ducks are easier to make, and became super trendy, but don't last more than a few weeks. The old rubber duck kids can't help laughing at the dopes with their fake paper mache ducks and say, "Man it sure will be nice when this trend is over with and we can get ducks again that are actually made to last."
It's more like there are, by varying definitions of "MMO", anything from 100-400 different MMOs and, by various metrics and data sources, millions upon millions of people enjoying them...
... and there's this tiny pocket of people who are grumbling there's no 'real' MMOs, there are no games to play, and the genre/scene/platform/etc is dying.
Wait. It's not like that... it is that.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
What is this made to last BS. Me and my friends have been playing FFXIV ARR since closed beta. How is that not lasting.
I'm not saying FFXIV is bad, but that is what, 1 year?
Come back in another 10 - 15 years. Then we can discuss long lasting.
Uh...i'm pretty sure playing a game for a year and still going strong is pretty lasting.
A full year.....
For a console game yes a year is a very long time, For a single player game yes a year is an age, Sadly for a decent MMO it is but a twinkle in a devs eye !
rubber ducks...lol
Yes a full year.....lasting to ME.....you going to tell me what i'm feeling is wrong?
A year is relatively longish nowadays (sadly) but compared to my 10 years in EVE or say someone's 16 in EQ, a year is seems pretty short.
I hope you can call the game home for many years to come, but you have a ways to go before you can call it what many of us would consider "long lasting" for an MMO.
When was player retention of a year, not a long time? You are an outlier. You are no indication of what the average or mean really is for retention, gaming habits or playstyle. That's not meant negatively, insultingly or disparagingly; only as a statement of fact.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Can't speak for anyone else, but this is the first time in a very long time there was nothing on the MMO horizon I felt even slightly excited about.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
I think its probably the worst period to be an old, stuck in your ways gamer yes. And yes I include myself in that camp. However as the industry itself goes, there are more games to choose from with many playable for not one cent needed than at any time before. So unless only a certain type of MMO entertains you this is an epic era to be a gamer.
Another person confusing quantity with quality.
If the games of the past were such better quality how do you explain their demise?
Demise? No, they are still active. That is one of the marks of their quality, they have survived the test of time.
Yet which of those games is anything like they were over a decade ago? Weren't most of them "dumbed down" or changed to appease the "wowers" or the "carebears" or those who "didn't like to read", etc? The industry shifted and they shifted right along with it did they not?
They had to adapt or die.
Actually, at this point its pretty clear that adapting is what killed them. It drove off their core fans and the casuals never flocked. Devs got greedy and the genre paied for it.
Of course, they tried to adopt new concepts but retain their flawed core.
It wasnt grees, it was survival mode. If you want more recent example - FFXIV
It's amazing to me that some people refer to the first mmorpgs as AAA. There were the most broken games I've ever played. Amateur at best.
Triple A titles are defined by the money spent and the presence of a publisher. Quality is just an assumption based on those two criteria. UO, AC, and EQ were Triple A titles.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
When was player retention of a year, not a long time?
Player retention of only a year would not have been considered very long back in 2004, when AC, UO & EQ already had retention periods approaching the 5 year mark.
I am not commenting on the quality of FFXIV AAR, only that it cannot be compared to older games in terms of long term retention. It simply has not been around long enough.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
And in comes the basic argument repeated as nauseum on these forums. If you don't like F2P, Massively Single Player Online Role Playing Games, with twitch based "action" combat. You're "old" and wearing "rose colored glasses". Because obviously nothing that was created prior to 8-10 years ago has any merit whatsoever and is just old and stupid and useless...
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
I think its probably the worst period to be an old, stuck in your ways gamer yes. And yes I include myself in that camp. However as the industry itself goes, there are more games to choose from with many playable for not one cent needed than at any time before. So unless only a certain type of MMO entertains you this is an epic era to be a gamer.
Another person confusing quantity with quality.
If the games of the past were such better quality how do you explain their demise?
Demise? No, they are still active. That is one of the marks of their quality, they have survived the test of time.
Yet which of those games is anything like they were over a decade ago? Weren't most of them "dumbed down" or changed to appease the "wowers" or the "carebears" or those who "didn't like to read", etc? The industry shifted and they shifted right along with it did they not?
They had to adapt or die. Even though they still adapted to more casual style, they are still struggling due to old age.
Most people seem to think a genre is healthy because of all the quantity of titles out there, but a true measure is how much money is generated, along with sustained population numbers. When you have kickstarter indie companies, as the bastion of saving a genre, it does not bode well for the genre.
A few people on an MMO site claimning that the genre is dead and the only that can save the genre is an Indie game doesn't make it true. There are billions of dollars generated in this genre. Heck look at how lustrious the RMT market is. They make billions from these MMORPGs. How the hell is the genre dead. Noone is claiming an Indie will save the genre except for a very select few unhappy and vocal folks. Again, billions of dollars every year, how is that dead?
Is there a lot of money being generated? Of course. Not all of it is profit though. That money goes back into use to produce more MMO's or other non-MMO games, and advertising, etc.
Besides the money, there is also the population numbers. How many MMO's over the last 10 years has kept over 1 million active players consistently? Even the king of MMOs (WoW) is on a steady decline. It went from 12 million at it's height, to around 6-7 million at it's lowest during MoP (it will be interesting to see the numbers after WoD).
All you have to do is look at Wildstar and you'll see a prime example of the problem with the genre. There isn't any retention anymore, compared to older MMO's of the past. This is a huge problem with the genre.
Well, let's have it. -- Do you think this is the least prolific period in the MMO/RPG - Markets? I know it's always a sitaution where we the gamers feel like we are ALWAYS waiting for the next title to deliver.
- However, have we come full circle to both the realization there simply is no title worth waiting for, and we will always be left without what we desire. More over- What about what is currently out. I look over my rather impressive collections of MMOs, and only 1-2 even seem like something i would want to play right now (GW2, FF14) - And neither are games i really -want- to play, but rather in the void of having nothing else to play, they are sufficent time-wasters, i don't really care to play them or not. -- So what happened, do you feel like this is a down-trodden period in the MMO industry, do you think it will recover? -- I'm personally tired of the waiting on "xy" title, and becoming instantly disgusted with the poor tactics employed in the deployment of the game that ends up leaving me right back to waiting on the next title. Can we stick a fork in it, and call it done?
I have to agree, it's just a terrible moment overall for this genre. There's nothing interesting coming out in the short term, and we can only hope that medium/long term we'll get some stuff worth playing.
I think its probably the worst period to be an old, stuck in your ways gamer yes. And yes I include myself in that camp. However as the industry itself goes, there are more games to choose from with many playable for not one cent needed than at any time before. So unless only a certain type of MMO entertains you this is an epic era to be a gamer.
Another person confusing quantity with quality.
If the games of the past were such better quality how do you explain their demise?
Demise? No, they are still active. That is one of the marks of their quality, they have survived the test of time.
Yet which of those games is anything like they were over a decade ago? Weren't most of them "dumbed down" or changed to appease the "wowers" or the "carebears" or those who "didn't like to read", etc? The industry shifted and they shifted right along with it did they not?
They had to adapt or die. Even though they still adapted to more casual style, they are still struggling due to old age.
Most people seem to think a genre is healthy because of all the quantity of titles out there, but a true measure is how much money is generated, along with sustained population numbers. When you have kickstarter indie companies, as the bastion of saving a genre, it does not bode well for the genre.
A few people on an MMO site claimning that the genre is dead and the only that can save the genre is an Indie game doesn't make it true. There are billions of dollars generated in this genre. Heck look at how lustrious the RMT market is. They make billions from these MMORPGs. How the hell is the genre dead. Noone is claiming an Indie will save the genre except for a very select few unhappy and vocal folks. Again, billions of dollars every year, how is that dead?
Is there a lot of money being generated? Of course. Not all of it is profit though. That money goes back into use to produce more MMO's or other non-MMO games, and advertising, etc.
Besides the money, there is also the population numbers. How many MMO's over the last 10 years has kept over 1 million active players consistently? Even the king of MMOs (WoW) is on a steady decline. It went from 12 million at it's height, to around 6-7 million at it's lowest during MoP (it will be interesting to see the numbers after WoD).
All you have to do is look at Wildstar and you'll see a prime example of the problem with the genre. There isn't any retention anymore, compared to older MMO's of the past. This is a huge problem with the genre.
But it's profit before they use it to produce other games. How is that not profit.
Dude, 1 million active players is a HUGE number. You don't even need half of that to make a profit. Of course retention will be low today. Look at how many mmorpgs out there today compared to the past. It's night and day. Even saying that, the population of the good games of today has more active subscribers then any of the old games could ever keep with all the competition.
You bring up one game to prove your point? Why not bring up other games that are actually keeping players as well as making a profit. GW2, SWOTR, FFXIV:ARR. You might not believe it but they are doing very well for themselves.
Different times, different situations. If the games of the old had this much competition, they'll run into the same situation today. You're right though, there is a huge problem with the genre. It's oversaturated which is good for the consumers, except for a small niche but vocal peeps that will never be happy (more games to play) but bad for the publishers. If i was a publisher, i would not be making an MMORPG right now.
When was player retention of a year, not a long time?
Player retention of only a year would not have been considered very long back in 2004, when AC, UO & EQ already had retention periods approaching the 5 year mark.
I am not commenting on the quality of FFXIV AAR, only that it cannot be compared to older games in terms of long term retention. It simply has not been around long enough.
That's what I thought. I was under the impression that quite a few players played those games for years. I would say the same now for EVE and WOW. Are the majority of those players just people that come and go in a month or two? I can't say for sure but I do doubt it.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Originally posted by FoomerangIt's amazing to me that some people refer to the first mmorpgs as AAA. There were the most broken games I've ever played. Amateur at best.
Triple A titles are defined by the money spent and the presence of a publisher. Quality is just an assumption based on those two criteria. UO, AC, and EQ were Triple A titles.
I disagree with that definition. AAA has always meant high quality in my gaming circles. And those old mmorpgs were low quality experimental games. Memorable experiences and a lot of fun, nonetheless.
Comments
Yes i was one of them, but my reasoning was bakc then that at that point in like 2004 when i switched to WoW was because UO was 2d isometric and like fucking 6-7 years old by that time since 1997. Really no other AAA mmorpg was available around that time besides UO/EVE/SWG. I played UO and SWG but didn't discover EVE until after i was done with WOW in like 2005ish. I'll totally agree themeparks are way popular but its kind of unfair giving the attention they receive having hundreds of millions of dollars invested into each themepark game where we got old old games or like a piece of shit game like mortal online or darkfall *puke*.
The genre is doing great right now. There are millions of more players playing. There are hundreds of more games to choose from. There is major money being made, even if 75% of the players play for free or pay very little at all.
Get over yourself already. *You* may not like the state the genre is in, like me, but that does not mean it is doing terribly. The genre is in its hey day right now.
Nothing has been mentioned about "quality." That is a personally defined term. Do not confuse the 2 ideas.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
You have a great point... This is the "best" time to be a gamer, but the "worst" time to be a hardcore MMORPG Gamer.
If you like casual games and the flashy graphics/free to play shops this is the best time for you. As a Veteran missing Star Wars Galaxies and Everquest 1, this is the worst time for us. We wanted games to improve and get more quality, instead they became clones and live off the cash shop. However, there are tons of awesome games to play, they are just all style and flash, with no substance to back them up. Variety and customization are minimal, as no one cares to delve into a game and stay, they want to jump ship in 1-3 months to shiniest "new big thing".
Even single player RPGs , etc. Or multiplayer Fps, can draw people away from MMORPGs, so you're competiting against every single new game release, not just other MMORPGs for this market.
Many have given up on MMORPGs, many have been lured away by MOBAs, or casual cell phone games or facebook applications. The true hardcore gamer is a tiny niche crowd, so we don't get many games, alas. It is just reality, that money talks, and we don't have enough money to compete against the public masses.
Ha Ha Ha.. Isn't that the gospel truth.. My account here started when I started to tire of the boring same ole MMO formula.. I too am unsatisfied with what is out today.. Back in the hay day when I was enjoying old school mmo's I didn't have time, nor the desire to chat on forums..
Last 3 hours of the Kickstarter campaign, pledge you dum-dums, pledge your sweet little disenchanted hearts out at the altar of our new MMO overlords !
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/crowfall/crowfall-throne-war-pc-mmo/comments
Race/gender locked classes and unity as an engine... I'll pass.
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.
Dumbest comments ever, so if you are playing and enjoying a game you can't possibly do anything else? Especially on a gaming forum where people discuss the games you enjoy? Really?
Don't be to harsh on them. Rydeson is just an old man who never grew up. He's lost touch with reality like most old people do and they don't realize their own foolishness because they refuse to let go of the past. They refuse to see the flaws of the past and they refuse to see that while some things may be worse off, the majority is actually a lot better then before.
Old people have a very narrowed perception. And anything that isn't inline with their perception, they rebuke and lash out against. Now while Rydeson obviously isn't actually "old", he has the same mentality of a lot of old people who can't let go of the past and just shout at others about how they should do what they did back in their day before computers were invented.
It's more like there are, by varying definitions of "MMO", anything from 100-400 different MMOs and, by various metrics and data sources, millions upon millions of people enjoying them...
... and there's this tiny pocket of people who are grumbling there's no 'real' MMOs, there are no games to play, and the genre/scene/platform/etc is dying.
Wait. It's not like that... it is that.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
When was player retention of a year, not a long time? You are an outlier. You are no indication of what the average or mean really is for retention, gaming habits or playstyle. That's not meant negatively, insultingly or disparagingly; only as a statement of fact.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
It's amazing to me that some people refer to the first mmorpgs as AAA. There were the most broken games I've ever played. Amateur at best.
But they were amazing because the internet was still new and we were riding high on the potential they had, not the reality.
Sadly, those pipe dreams are now the unwaivering standard in the bitter vets mind. Make no mistake, it's a neurosis.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Of course, they tried to adopt new concepts but retain their flawed core.
It wasnt grees, it was survival mode. If you want more recent example - FFXIV
Triple A titles are defined by the money spent and the presence of a publisher. Quality is just an assumption based on those two criteria. UO, AC, and EQ were Triple A titles.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Player retention of only a year would not have been considered very long back in 2004, when AC, UO & EQ already had retention periods approaching the 5 year mark.
I am not commenting on the quality of FFXIV AAR, only that it cannot be compared to older games in terms of long term retention. It simply has not been around long enough.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
And in comes the basic argument repeated as nauseum on these forums. If you don't like F2P, Massively Single Player Online Role Playing Games, with twitch based "action" combat. You're "old" and wearing "rose colored glasses". Because obviously nothing that was created prior to 8-10 years ago has any merit whatsoever and is just old and stupid and useless...
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
Is there a lot of money being generated? Of course. Not all of it is profit though. That money goes back into use to produce more MMO's or other non-MMO games, and advertising, etc.
Besides the money, there is also the population numbers. How many MMO's over the last 10 years has kept over 1 million active players consistently? Even the king of MMOs (WoW) is on a steady decline. It went from 12 million at it's height, to around 6-7 million at it's lowest during MoP (it will be interesting to see the numbers after WoD).
All you have to do is look at Wildstar and you'll see a prime example of the problem with the genre. There isn't any retention anymore, compared to older MMO's of the past. This is a huge problem with the genre.
I have to agree, it's just a terrible moment overall for this genre. There's nothing interesting coming out in the short term, and we can only hope that medium/long term we'll get some stuff worth playing.
Executive Editor (Games) http://www.wccftech.com
But it's profit before they use it to produce other games. How is that not profit.
Dude, 1 million active players is a HUGE number. You don't even need half of that to make a profit. Of course retention will be low today. Look at how many mmorpgs out there today compared to the past. It's night and day. Even saying that, the population of the good games of today has more active subscribers then any of the old games could ever keep with all the competition.
You bring up one game to prove your point? Why not bring up other games that are actually keeping players as well as making a profit. GW2, SWOTR, FFXIV:ARR. You might not believe it but they are doing very well for themselves.
Different times, different situations. If the games of the old had this much competition, they'll run into the same situation today. You're right though, there is a huge problem with the genre. It's oversaturated which is good for the consumers, except for a small niche but vocal peeps that will never be happy (more games to play) but bad for the publishers. If i was a publisher, i would not be making an MMORPG right now.
That's what I thought. I was under the impression that quite a few players played those games for years. I would say the same now for EVE and WOW. Are the majority of those players just people that come and go in a month or two? I can't say for sure but I do doubt it.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb