Originally posted by FoomerangIt's amazing to me that some people refer to the first mmorpgs as AAA. There were the most broken games I've ever played. Amateur at best.
Triple A titles are defined by the money spent and the presence of a publisher. Quality is just an assumption based on those two criteria. UO, AC, and EQ were Triple A titles.
I disagree with that definition. AAA has always meant high quality in my gaming circles. And those old mmorpgs were low quality experimental games. Memorable experiences and a lot of fun, nonetheless.
And this is what we are headed back too right now. Big companies with the money to fund AAA mmo's are scared to throw all that money away on anything new or innovative right now. They lost big money or didn't make as much as projected from copying WoW which should of been technically easy money from their spread sheets and accountant break downs. They don't want to back a new ip with a crazy idea because of the risk of losing money so we are now left with the DIY'ers trying to revive and show the big guys how to do it again.
Right now we are in the bland and boring era. We need the craft brewer/DIY guys with little to lose to come through and drop some greatness on us.
Originally posted by Fearum Originally posted by FoomerangOriginally posted by LoktofeitOriginally posted by FoomerangIt's amazing to me that some people refer to the first mmorpgs as AAA. There were the most broken games I've ever played. Amateur at best.
Triple A titles are defined by the money spent and the presence of a publisher. Quality is just an assumption based on those two criteria. UO, AC, and EQ were Triple A titles. I disagree with that definition. AAA has always meant high quality in my gaming circles. And those old mmorpgs were low quality experimental games. Memorable experiences and a lot of fun, nonetheless.And this is what we are headed back too right now. Big companies with the money to fund AAA mmo's are scared to throw all that money away on anything new or innovative right now. They lost big money or didn't make as much as projected from copying WoW which should of been technically easy money from their spread sheets and accountant break downs. They don't want to back a new ip with a crazy idea because of the risk of losing money so we are now left with the DIY'ers trying to revive and show the big guys how to do it again.
Right now we are in the bland and boring era. We need the craft brewer/DIY guys with little to lose to come through and drop some greatness on us.
The diy guys are busy making niche MMOs for bitter vets. That greatness ain't dropping anytime soon.
Originally posted by FoomerangIt's amazing to me that some people refer to the first mmorpgs as AAA. There were the most broken games I've ever played. Amateur at best.
Triple A titles are defined by the money spent and the presence of a publisher. Quality is just an assumption based on those two criteria. UO, AC, and EQ were Triple A titles.
I disagree with that definition. AAA has always meant high quality in my gaming circles. And those old mmorpgs were low quality experimental games. Memorable experiences and a lot of fun, nonetheless.
And this is what we are headed back too right now. Big companies with the money to fund AAA mmo's are scared to throw all that money away on anything new or innovative right now. They lost big money or didn't make as much as projected from copying WoW which should of been technically easy money from their spread sheets and accountant break downs. They don't want to back a new ip with a crazy idea because of the risk of losing money so we are now left with the DIY'ers trying to revive and show the big guys how to do it again.
Right now we are in the bland and boring era. We need the craft brewer/DIY guys with little to lose to come through and drop some greatness on us.
The diy guys are busy making niche MMOs for bitter vets. That greatness ain't dropping anytime soon.
Better than getting WoW clone rehash #23 from the big guys every other month for the masses to consume and spit out.
Originally posted by Fearum Originally posted by FoomerangOriginally posted by FearumOriginally posted by FoomerangOriginally posted by LoktofeitOriginally posted by FoomerangIt's amazing to me that some people refer to the first mmorpgs as AAA. There were the most broken games I've ever played. Amateur at best.
Triple A titles are defined by the money spent and the presence of a publisher. Quality is just an assumption based on those two criteria. UO, AC, and EQ were Triple A titles. I disagree with that definition. AAA has always meant high quality in my gaming circles. And those old mmorpgs were low quality experimental games. Memorable experiences and a lot of fun, nonetheless.And this is what we are headed back too right now. Big companies with the money to fund AAA mmo's are scared to throw all that money away on anything new or innovative right now. They lost big money or didn't make as much as projected from copying WoW which should of been technically easy money from their spread sheets and accountant break downs. They don't want to back a new ip with a crazy idea because of the risk of losing money so we are now left with the DIY'ers trying to revive and show the big guys how to do it again.Right now we are in the bland and boring era. We need the craft brewer/DIY guys with little to lose to come through and drop some greatness on us.The diy guys are busy making niche MMOs for bitter vets. That greatness ain't dropping anytime soon. Better than getting WoW clone rehash #23 from the big guys every other month for the masses to consume and spit out.
Originally posted by FoomerangIt's amazing to me that some people refer to the first mmorpgs as AAA. There were the most broken games I've ever played. Amateur at best.
Triple A titles are defined by the money spent and the presence of a publisher. Quality is just an assumption based on those two criteria. UO, AC, and EQ were Triple A titles.
I disagree with that definition. AAA has always meant high quality in my gaming circles. And those old mmorpgs were low quality experimental games. Memorable experiences and a lot of fun, nonetheless.
And this is what we are headed back too right now. Big companies with the money to fund AAA mmo's are scared to throw all that money away on anything new or innovative right now. They lost big money or didn't make as much as projected from copying WoW which should of been technically easy money from their spread sheets and accountant break downs. They don't want to back a new ip with a crazy idea because of the risk of losing money so we are now left with the DIY'ers trying to revive and show the big guys how to do it again.
Right now we are in the bland and boring era. We need the craft brewer/DIY guys with little to lose to come through and drop some greatness on us.
The diy guys are busy making niche MMOs for bitter vets. That greatness ain't dropping anytime soon.
Actually games for bitter vets cannot get funding even on KS.
And in comes the basic argument repeated as nauseum on these forums. If you don't like F2P, Massively Single Player Online Role Playing Games, with twitch based "action" combat. You're "old" and wearing "rose colored glasses". Because obviously nothing that was created prior to 8-10 years ago has any merit whatsoever and is just old and stupid and useless...
Exactly.
If the genre was in such good shape, the 5 biggest names in the mmorpg business wouldn't be begging on kickstarter to make another game.
So... it depends. If you play only a single character, and don't care about the pay2win stuff, then you can have a lot of fun. In any other case, you better stick to other great games these days. Such as Cities: Skylines, DOTA 2, Civ 5, Ori, single player RPGs and so on.
I have to say that I completely understand your position OP. I too have felt that way for a while. Recently I rediscovered my all time favorite MMORPG: Pre-CU SWG. I know we can't mention the private servers etc. on here, but I finally found one that is fun to play. Never thought I'd be having a blast playing a 12 year old game but I dusted off my original install discs and haven't looked back since. It's not perfect, but for me it's better than anything that's out now. Maybe I am just getting old, but I'm having a blast.
Indeed, we have all the old games, plus all the news games - all running just now, but somehow being in the past where you can only choose from old games is better. Some people cant face facts - they have simply out grown games or genre.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
In fact those old games are now running on systems that are castl more powerful, so even looking at ancient games, they are better now than they were. But that's not really the issue the complainers want to face.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Old MMOs are just that...old. Just because you can still play some of them, doesn't mean I will....because they are outdated and old.
But back then, they did make more, percentage wise, substantial products than they do these days. Or at least because we didn't have so many to choose from, we liked/played most of them. You can't say that today. Today we have 100k titles and 3 are worth playing.
I dunno...maybe it's the same. Maybe the fact that we still have the same amount of games to play and enjoy today as we did back then. So maybe the only thing that has changed is the number of nutjobs trying to make money by flooding the market with anything from crap to cake.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Originally posted by FoomerangIt's amazing to me that some people refer to the first mmorpgs as AAA. There were the most broken games I've ever played. Amateur at best.
Triple A titles are defined by the money spent and the presence of a publisher. Quality is just an assumption based on those two criteria. UO, AC, and EQ were Triple A titles.
I disagree with that definition. AAA has always meant high quality in my gaming circles. And those old mmorpgs were low quality experimental games. Memorable experiences and a lot of fun, nonetheless.
Disagree with industry definition all you want. Do you realize that someone in the industry gave you the definition and you replied with "I disagree because my friends and I want it to be something else"?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by Bladestrom Indeed, we have all the old games, plus all the news games - all running just now, but somehow being in the past where you can only choose from old games is better. Some people cant face facts - they have simply out grown games or genre.
Not only able to choose the old games.
Still choosing the old games because the newer ones lack any depth or originality.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
When was player retention of a year, not a long time?
Player retention of only a year would not have been considered very long back in 2004, when AC, UO & EQ already had retention periods approaching the 5 year mark.
Do you have the data on that? To be clear, I'm not saying you're wrong, only that I am interested in where you got that from.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
As someone who wants to play a MMORPG that is a virtual world with no cash shop it looks pretty bleak.
Also this doesn't even go into percentages like how many of these new MMOs along with the old have cash shops now. That and I would not call everything getting cash shops or "more payment options" better in any way.
Call me old fashioned but I want to kill the boss riding a skeleton horse mount and loot it not pay for it in a cash shop.
Exactly! I used to play POTCO (Pirates of the Caribbean Online) and it was $7.99/mth when you paid for UNLIMITED membership for a year and it was the best $7.99 a month I've spent in many a year! For the hours I played that game I got my money's worth. It was nice not getting interrupted in game to "Purchase" more stuff. You had access to everything with that unlimited membership. I miss that game. There is nothing out there like it.
It is the worst period to be an MMORPGer of old in particular. We are the audience that wants a more intelligent MMORPG, with options to interact in and with the world, a vast world to explore, discover, traverse, and fear, stories with depth, while still having the ability to carve out our own characters' individual stories, and customize our characters' looks and playstyles. We are the audience that ranges from ages 30 up to and possibly over 80 even. We are the audience that genuinely appreciated the Tabletop / Pen&Paper RPGs, with few younger than that age range truly being introduced to and also appreciating the genre. We are the audience that is assumed to not be worth creating an MMORPG for, although a safe bet is that developers do not have what it takes to create the type of quality this audience damn well expects. But alas, this period will pass.
It happens to be the best time ever for MMO gamers. Fancy graphics, shinies, solo gameplay, fast travel and simplicity are everything and anything MMO gamers could ever dream of. Masterpieces are an unnecessary objective from the developers' perspectives when the money flows like water. The MMO gamers would not appreciate such masterpieces anyway, not for their subtleties, their finer details, nor realistic thought provoking philosophical and-or intellectual conversations. No, these things would merely go to waste, unnoticed and unappreciated even if they were pointed out.
Very intelligent post- I agree 100% with everything you stated here. You just said it better.
Well, let's have it. -- Do you think this is the least prolific period in the MMO/RPG - Markets? I know it's always a sitaution where we the gamers feel like we are ALWAYS waiting for the next title to deliver.
- However, have we come full circle to both the realization there simply is no title worth waiting for, and we will always be left without what we desire. More over- What about what is currently out. I look over my rather impressive collections of MMOs, and only 1-2 even seem like something i would want to play right now (GW2, FF14) - And neither are games i really -want- to play, but rather in the void of having nothing else to play, they are sufficent time-wasters, i don't really care to play them or not. -- So what happened, do you feel like this is a down-trodden period in the MMO industry, do you think it will recover? -- I'm personally tired of the waiting on "xy" title, and becoming instantly disgusted with the poor tactics employed in the deployment of the game that ends up leaving me right back to waiting on the next title. Can we stick a fork in it, and call it done?
sorry i had no time to read thread, but id like to make a quick point based on the article. I think the announcement date of World of Warcraft was probably the worst day in MMO history for the more artistic consumer product. From the date of that announcement (2001?) until the release of Minecraft will probably be considered the worst period for MMOs, artistically, but the best period for them commercially. Right now we are coming into a renaissance (cross your fingers) which could become the best time in MMO history.
Originally posted by Jacxolope Originally posted by Enbysra It is the worst period to be an MMORPGer of old in particular. We are the audience that wants a more intelligent MMORPG, with options to interact in and with the world, a vast world to explore, discover, traverse, and fear, stories with depth, while still having the ability to carve out our own characters' individual stories, and customize our characters' looks and playstyles. We are the audience that ranges from ages 30 up to and possibly over 80 even. We are the audience that genuinely appreciated the Tabletop / Pen&Paper RPGs, with few younger than that age range truly being introduced to and also appreciating the genre. We are the audience that is assumed to not be worth creating an MMORPG for, although a safe bet is that developers do not have what it takes to create the type of quality this audience damn well expects. But alas, this period will pass. It happens to be the best time ever for MMO gamers. Fancy graphics, shinies, solo gameplay, fast travel and simplicity are everything and anything MMO gamers could ever dream of. Masterpieces are an unnecessary objective from the developers' perspectives when the money flows like water. The MMO gamers would not appreciate such masterpieces anyway, not for their subtleties, their finer details, nor realistic thought provoking philosophical and-or intellectual conversations. No, these things would merely go to waste, unnoticed and unappreciated even if they were pointed out.
Very intelligent post- I agree 100% with everything you stated here. You just said it better. Really? Seemed like a bunch of pretentious bullshit to me.
I am in my 40s, I have played games since ths 80s, I have probably spent in excess of 20k hours specifically in mmorpg. I ajso enjoy rog board games like mage knight and descent. I've now played eso for 6 months and for me it offers almost everything you list enbyrsa, and I consider eso to b the best mmoRPG ever made. The problem enbyrsa is that YOU and like minded people either can't move on or have grown out of mmorpg.
Ask yourself this, imagine wow, Everquest, eso, gw2, eve, TSW, ff14 all released for the first time with their vanilla version today. wow and EQ would die a quick painless death because what they offer is out of date. Nostalgia is a powerful thing.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Enbysra It is the worst period to be an MMORPGer of old in particular. We are the audience that wants a more intelligent MMORPG, with options to interact in and with the world, a vast world to explore, discover, traverse, and fear, stories with depth, while still having the ability to carve out our own characters' individual stories, and customize our characters' looks and playstyles. We are the audience that ranges from ages 30 up to and possibly over 80 even. We are the audience that genuinely appreciated the Tabletop / Pen&Paper RPGs, with few younger than that age range truly being introduced to and also appreciating the genre. We are the audience that is assumed to not be worth creating an MMORPG for, although a safe bet is that developers do not have what it takes to create the type of quality this audience damn well expects. But alas, this period will pass. It happens to be the best time ever for MMO gamers. Fancy graphics, shinies, solo gameplay, fast travel and simplicity are everything and anything MMO gamers could ever dream of. Masterpieces are an unnecessary objective from the developers' perspectives when the money flows like water. The MMO gamers would not appreciate such masterpieces anyway, not for their subtleties, their finer details, nor realistic thought provoking philosophical and-or intellectual conversations. No, these things would merely go to waste, unnoticed and unappreciated even if they were pointed out.
Very intelligent post- I agree 100% with everything you stated here. You just said it better.
Really? Seemed like a bunch of pretentious bullshit to me.
Buth thats the rethoric, we are all just "too stupid to comprehend"
The more funny thing is he talks about games like EQ/Vanguard which were utterly clumsy and deeply flawed attempts at MMO whose "features" pretty much drove away everyone who played them.
So yeah, i dont really want "masterpieces" like that, and those can take their place in history - where they belong, to learn from many mistakes they made.
Originally posted by Bladestrom I am in my 40s, I have played games since ths 80s, I have probably spent in excess of 20k hours specifically in mmorpg. I ajso enjoy rog board games like mage knight and descent. I've now played eso for 6 months and for me it offers almost everything you list enbyrsa, and I consider eso to b the best mmoRPG ever made. The problem enbyrsa is that YOU and like minded people either can't move on or have grown out of mmorpg.Ask yourself this, imagine wow, Everquest, eso, gw2, eve, TSW, ff14 all released for the first time with their vanilla version today. wow and EQ would die a quick painless death because what they offer is out of date. Nostalgia is a powerful thing.
Wow... Since *you* like ESO, it must satisfy all old MMORPG players? Just... wow...
"Out of date"? Is this all that matters to you? - I doubt I would play vanilla EQ again. Not looking for a forced grouping (for me) experience. - Vanilla WoW I may play again (presently sometimes play on an emulator). - GW2 is not my thing, nor was TSW. - EVE I tried the free trial and spent 90% of the tome OUT OF THE GAME waiting for my skills to level up. No thanks. I want to PKLAY a game, not log off and wait. - FF14 I tried and did not like it. Not being a FF fan I think helped me not make a connection with it at all. - ESO I played in the betas and it was NOT a satisfying "RPG" for me. In my opinion, ESO is an abomination of the TES series as a whole. I'm glad you like it.
Enbysra was spot on. The only thing mentioned there that I disagree with was customizing character's looks. VERY limited in the old games.
Great time to be an "MMO player." Terrible time to be an "old school MMORPG player. Spot on.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
It's hardly the worst period. Not so many years ago there were very few MMOs to play. Especially if you despise Asian MMOs as I do. Actually the situation is quite good at the moment, except P2W shite that has to die fast but painful death.
Comments
And this is what we are headed back too right now. Big companies with the money to fund AAA mmo's are scared to throw all that money away on anything new or innovative right now. They lost big money or didn't make as much as projected from copying WoW which should of been technically easy money from their spread sheets and accountant break downs. They don't want to back a new ip with a crazy idea because of the risk of losing money so we are now left with the DIY'ers trying to revive and show the big guys how to do it again.
Right now we are in the bland and boring era. We need the craft brewer/DIY guys with little to lose to come through and drop some greatness on us.
I disagree with that definition. AAA has always meant high quality in my gaming circles. And those old mmorpgs were low quality experimental games. Memorable experiences and a lot of fun, nonetheless.
And this is what we are headed back too right now. Big companies with the money to fund AAA mmo's are scared to throw all that money away on anything new or innovative right now. They lost big money or didn't make as much as projected from copying WoW which should of been technically easy money from their spread sheets and accountant break downs. They don't want to back a new ip with a crazy idea because of the risk of losing money so we are now left with the DIY'ers trying to revive and show the big guys how to do it again.
Right now we are in the bland and boring era. We need the craft brewer/DIY guys with little to lose to come through and drop some greatness on us.
The diy guys are busy making niche MMOs for bitter vets. That greatness ain't dropping anytime soon.
Better than getting WoW clone rehash #23 from the big guys every other month for the masses to consume and spit out.
I got patience.
I disagree with that definition. AAA has always meant high quality in my gaming circles. And those old mmorpgs were low quality experimental games. Memorable experiences and a lot of fun, nonetheless.
And this is what we are headed back too right now. Big companies with the money to fund AAA mmo's are scared to throw all that money away on anything new or innovative right now. They lost big money or didn't make as much as projected from copying WoW which should of been technically easy money from their spread sheets and accountant break downs. They don't want to back a new ip with a crazy idea because of the risk of losing money so we are now left with the DIY'ers trying to revive and show the big guys how to do it again. Right now we are in the bland and boring era. We need the craft brewer/DIY guys with little to lose to come through and drop some greatness on us.
The diy guys are busy making niche MMOs for bitter vets. That greatness ain't dropping anytime soon.
Better than getting WoW clone rehash #23 from the big guys every other month for the masses to consume and spit out.
I got patience.
Lol
Actually games for bitter vets cannot get funding even on KS.
Exactly.
If the genre was in such good shape, the 5 biggest names in the mmorpg business wouldn't be begging on kickstarter to make another game.
What's good about current MMORPGs:
- lots of games you can try for free
- a lot of them have nice graphics
What's bad about current MMORPGs:
- low replayability
- pay2win
So... it depends. If you play only a single character, and don't care about the pay2win stuff, then you can have a lot of fun. In any other case, you better stick to other great games these days. Such as Cities: Skylines, DOTA 2, Civ 5, Ori, single player RPGs and so on.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
I have to say that I completely understand your position OP. I too have felt that way for a while. Recently I rediscovered my all time favorite MMORPG: Pre-CU SWG. I know we can't mention the private servers etc. on here, but I finally found one that is fun to play. Never thought I'd be having a blast playing a 12 year old game but I dusted off my original install discs and haven't looked back since. It's not perfect, but for me it's better than anything that's out now. Maybe I am just getting old, but I'm having a blast.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Old MMOs are just that...old. Just because you can still play some of them, doesn't mean I will....because they are outdated and old.
But back then, they did make more, percentage wise, substantial products than they do these days. Or at least because we didn't have so many to choose from, we liked/played most of them. You can't say that today. Today we have 100k titles and 3 are worth playing.
I dunno...maybe it's the same. Maybe the fact that we still have the same amount of games to play and enjoy today as we did back then. So maybe the only thing that has changed is the number of nutjobs trying to make money by flooding the market with anything from crap to cake.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Disagree with industry definition all you want. Do you realize that someone in the industry gave you the definition and you replied with "I disagree because my friends and I want it to be something else"?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Not only able to choose the old games.
Still choosing the old games because the newer ones lack any depth or originality.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
Do you have the data on that? To be clear, I'm not saying you're wrong, only that I am interested in where you got that from.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Exactly! I used to play POTCO (Pirates of the Caribbean Online) and it was $7.99/mth when you paid for UNLIMITED membership for a year and it was the best $7.99 a month I've spent in many a year! For the hours I played that game I got my money's worth. It was nice not getting interrupted in game to "Purchase" more stuff. You had access to everything with that unlimited membership. I miss that game. There is nothing out there like it.
Very intelligent post- I agree 100% with everything you stated here. You just said it better.
sorry i had no time to read thread, but id like to make a quick point based on the article. I think the announcement date of World of Warcraft was probably the worst day in MMO history for the more artistic consumer product. From the date of that announcement (2001?) until the release of Minecraft will probably be considered the worst period for MMOs, artistically, but the best period for them commercially. Right now we are coming into a renaissance (cross your fingers) which could become the best time in MMO history.
Really? Seemed like a bunch of pretentious bullshit to me.
Ask yourself this, imagine wow, Everquest, eso, gw2, eve, TSW, ff14 all released for the first time with their vanilla version today. wow and EQ would die a quick painless death because what they offer is out of date. Nostalgia is a powerful thing.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Buth thats the rethoric, we are all just "too stupid to comprehend"
The more funny thing is he talks about games like EQ/Vanguard which were utterly clumsy and deeply flawed attempts at MMO whose "features" pretty much drove away everyone who played them.
So yeah, i dont really want "masterpieces" like that, and those can take their place in history - where they belong, to learn from many mistakes they made.
"Out of date"? Is this all that matters to you?
- I doubt I would play vanilla EQ again. Not looking for a forced grouping (for me) experience.
- Vanilla WoW I may play again (presently sometimes play on an emulator).
- GW2 is not my thing, nor was TSW.
- EVE I tried the free trial and spent 90% of the tome OUT OF THE GAME waiting for my skills to level up. No thanks. I want to PKLAY a game, not log off and wait.
- FF14 I tried and did not like it. Not being a FF fan I think helped me not make a connection with it at all.
- ESO I played in the betas and it was NOT a satisfying "RPG" for me. In my opinion, ESO is an abomination of the TES series as a whole. I'm glad you like it.
Enbysra was spot on. The only thing mentioned there that I disagree with was customizing character's looks. VERY limited in the old games.
Great time to be an "MMO player." Terrible time to be an "old school MMORPG player. Spot on.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR