blkcat, you can claim we make numbers up all you want but per Sir-Bruce's site the numbers he has up for June are based on 'insider information' not 'company news releases'.
I don't believe the numbers because it's what SOE says. I believe the numbers because, after all is said and done, the game doesn't feel any more empty of players now than it did pre-CU... And on the 'new player planets' it feels more crowded than before.
My guess is that it's still pretty much a wash. Which is a shame... EP3 could have really given the game a huge boost in playerbase but the CU pretty much eliminated that chance by alienating so many older players.
As Noobia said, many of the changes broke/altered some classes so much that people who loved those professions quit the game. Yes, they'll be replaced by new players who don't know what it was like before, but those players are still gone.
As for me? The game is still fun. My guild is growing daily. And since the Curb we went from a group of 15 or so friends who just love to game together to a group of over 45, most of them new players that we're helping to learn the game.
There were things I didn't like about the CURB and there are things I like about the CURB... personally I'd have done it differently but this is how they chose to do it and, since I don't have a say in the development process I either have to lump it and continue playing the game I still enjoy or go play something else I don't like as much.
And, frankly, there isn't another game out there that I'm interested in Trust me, if there were, I'd be gone. When I p layed in Beta I specifically REFUSED to buy SWG because spaceflight wasn't in and there were even more broken aspects to the game then than there are now (believe it or not). I didn't pick the game up until last June when they eliminated the holo grind, had introduced vehicles and spaceflight was around the corner.
My point is simple: Right now SWG is the best thing on the market for me. And for 255,000 others evidently. Till that changes the game will continue to slog along. Hopefully it will improve on areas that need it and fix areas that are broken. In my experience SOE is pretty good about eventually getting it right. It just takes them a while...
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by Elnator My point is simple: Right now SWG is the best thing on the market for me. And for 255,000 others evidently. Till that changes the game will continue to slog along. Hopefully it will improve on areas that need it and fix areas that are broken. In my experience SOE is pretty good about eventually getting it right. It just takes them a while...
Again, I glad you like it. Play it, love it, marry it for all I care. However, dont quote figures like that without some basis of proof. The site that your geting those figues from states that the majority of their information comes directly from the companies in question. Is a company going to say their numbers are droping? Of course not. Thats bad PR, not that they havent gotten enough already.
I cant speak for your experience, but after 2 years and they still havent gotten it right, just doesnt sound like "pretty good about eventually getting it right" to me. Even you admit there is still alot wrong with the game. Some of which was wrong from day one.
To many people, SoE seems to be more concerned with adding new content, much of which is bugged, before fixing the problems of the past. From my stand point, that tells me they are more interested with making money, than puting out a "quality" product.
Originally posted by Blkcat Originally posted by Elnator My point is simple: Right now SWG is the best thing on the market for me. And for 255,000 others evidently. Till that changes the game will continue to slog along. Hopefully it will improve on areas that need it and fix areas that are broken. In my experience SOE is pretty good about eventually getting it right. It just takes them a while...
Again, I glad you like it. Play it, love it, marry it for all I care. However, dont quote figures like that without some basis of proof. The site that your geting those figues from states that the majority of their information comes directly from the companies in question. Is a company going to say their numbers are droping? Of course not. Thats bad PR, not that they havent gotten enough already.
I cant speak for your experience, but after 2 years and they still havent gotten it right, just doesnt sound like "pretty good about eventually getting it right" to me. Even you admit there is still alot wrong with the game. Some of which was wrong from day one.
To many people, SoE seems to be more concerned with adding new content, much of which is bugged, before fixing the problems of the past. From my stand point, that tells me they are more interested with making money, than puting out a "quality" product.
I'm not going to get into another arguement over this. I've already wasted enough time arguing this topic. But those figures aren't mine. They're from www.mmorpgchart.com. They have a B rating for accuracy (which, granted isn't the best but it's not bad). Furthermore per EBGAMES SWG is among their top 3 selling games right now (Go look at their website under PC games "Top Sellers".) Which leads me to believe that the numbers are more than likely accurate. They list under "Best Sellers"
Available Now Guild Wars $49.99 SW Galaxies Total $29.99 Guild Wars HB $19.99
Now, I don't know where those RANK in their best sellers as they only list those 3, but this tells me that SWG must be selling pretty well. That coupled with my In-Game experience of not noticing any dip in number of players and possibly a slight increase and added to the fact that Sir Bruce is reporting 255,000 (the same number he's reported for the past 3 months or so) tells me that the game is pretty much coasting along number-of-subscribers wise.
I also state that we probably won't know for sure how this pans out till July when the initial rush of players from buying TE decides to continue subscribing or not. That should also be enough time to start seeing anyone who cancelled drop off the radar as their subscriptions run out.
As I've said all along. I like the game, others dont. It's worth a try. If you don't feel like spending the $30 to get the game to try it for 30 days then wait for a free trial. But as long as it's selling well (note: EB Games states on their website that it's one of their top sellers) there probably won't be a free trial. Free trials come out when sales are lagging, not when they're a top seller.
I'm done arguing the statistics with you. It's obvious that you refuse to believe them no matter how many facts are brought before you. If you want to believe that the game is dying because you don't like it that's fine. The fact of the matter is that other players do and the game is selling well right now. That quote from EB Games, by the way, is from Today.
To the original point of this thread: No, the game isn't showing any signs of "dying" Yes, in my opinion, it is worth trying. $30 is cheap for an MMO to begin with (most are $50) and you get all the expansions to boot and 30 days to try the game out. And with the Barc Speeder (which you can sell for 5-10 million credits) you won't even have to suffer through the typical "I'm a broke noob" blues if you don't want to.
If you don't feel like forking out $30 to try it then wait for a free trial. I suspect it'll be a wait of several months though.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Here comes the next conspiracy theory fan. Unless SOE is recruiting Austrians working in the power supply field and who still pay for their own subscription I dont think there is such a conspiracy. Cause i DO like the game post-CU, even if there is a long bug list to fix and CSRs need to get up to the standard they showed first quarter 2005. SOE, if you read this ... HIRE ME HIRE ME .. SHOWER ME WITH MONEY, WILL YA ?!
Some people like the combat revamp (at least in part), some dont. You hear various opinions here on the forum. You also can read a lot of critical remarks from those who like SWG, but those are the posts that are conveniently overlooked by the SWG flamers. Does not fit into their concept of "SWG/SOE is EVIL"... constructive criticism is something they left behind long ago.
Have fun
Erillion
You miss my point, its right there on the top of my head......I mean.....
Really, i mean it seems that people that dont like the game always pick up a fo;;owing of pro-game greifers (especially on SOE/SWG forums) who's only response seems to be a scripted "quit already, and leave us alone cause we like the game". Problem is, what of all the help veteran players have given all the new players who have taken our game, and now tell us "up yours! we dont care if you dont like the game"? If you like the game, fine, play all you want, Sony loves you, but dont come on a forum and defend shady business practices and tell some one who got robbed too bad, have a nice day. It's insulting. Response to constructive criticism has been lacking, if you were to read the old posts about the CU, the majority of players from the TC who gave feedback, gave NEGATIVE feedback to the CU and suggested more work before going live with it. Also, the level based system wasnt in the Test Center when played, so the whole CU isnt what was being sold. Do you follow what I am saying?
And it amazes me how people who dont like the game anymore sound like disgruntled customers who feel ripped off, but those that defend it seem like they are profiting from the game, like they are good, company people. Whats up with that? Is Sony hiring people to run a giant propaganda campaign?
I know I don't sound like a Sony employee. I call a spade a spade, and there are a lotta spades in this deck. But there's still fun to be had. And I'm not going to say there isn't just because they nerfed my first couple of choices of fun and broke a few others. The game has massive appeal to a certain kind of playstyle (which for the most part is NOT mine). No one can deny that. Just like no sane person can deny it's terminally broken in parts and CSR sucks the sweat off a rancour's privates.
Thing is, I still manage to have fun. And as broken and sucky as it is in places, it's still more fun than WOW, GW, AO or anything else out there. If you hate SOE, you might as well forget all about Matrix, since it's been slated for a sony takeover, or so I hear. Maybe I'm more tolerant since NO game caters to my playstyle and most games bore me so much I'd rather take up cross stitch than bother with them. SWG, even broken, nerfed and turned into EQ is closer than anything else out there. Though if anyone DOES make a game that puts as much importance and care into crafting and gets it right, I'll be cancelled and subbed there so fast SOE's collective ears will burst from the sonic boom of my departure.
I agree with everything you say except I am leaving the game to explore other activities, like smoking crack, or becoming a Llahma trainer for the circus, or maybe I will finally start remodeling the house.......
Well, if you love crafting and a system that caters to crafters well, you may want to follow the development of Dark and Light. From what I've read on it, there are going to be variables in crafting quality based on skill, materials, weather, time of year, and what constellations are in the sky, not to mention group crafting projects and skill based upgrading. I don't know anything about the combat system as they're very quiet about it, but there will also be alot of politics including a social xp ladder of sorts used, in part, to attain titles over towns, regions, fortresses and even all the way up to an entire kingdom.
It would be better to just check it out instead of listen to me ramble. est. release time Nov. 05
Originally posted by strikein In response to azrarn's post on page 8. Well, if you love crafting and a system that caters to crafters well, you may want to follow the development of Dark and Light. From what I've read on it, there are going to be variables in crafting quality based on skill, materials, weather, time of year, and what constellations are in the sky, not to mention group crafting projects and skill based upgrading. I don't know anything about the combat system as they're very quiet about it, but there will also be alot of politics including a social xp ladder of sorts used, in part, to attain titles over towns, regions, fortresses and even all the way up to an entire kingdom. It would be better to just check it out instead of listen to me ramble. est. release time Nov. 05 www.darkandlight.com
Is D&L in Beta yet? If it isn't I consider it Vaporware.... what it's promising is very very cool but I question their ability to make it all work within 6 months if they aren't already in Beta.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by strikein In response to azrarn's post on page 8. Well, if you love crafting and a system that caters to crafters well, you may want to follow the development of Dark and Light. From what I've read on it, there are going to be variables in crafting quality based on skill, materials, weather, time of year, and what constellations are in the sky, not to mention group crafting projects and skill based upgrading. I don't know anything about the combat system as they're very quiet about it, but there will also be alot of politics including a social xp ladder of sorts used, in part, to attain titles over towns, regions, fortresses and even all the way up to an entire kingdom. It would be better to just check it out instead of listen to me ramble. est. release time Nov. 05 www.darkandlight.com
Is D&L in Beta yet? If it isn't I consider it Vaporware.... what it's promising is very very cool but I question their ability to make it all work within 6 months if they aren't already in Beta.
Hell, you're bolder then me. I pretty much consider it vaporware now til its on the shelf and selling.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by Fadeus Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by strikein In response to azrarn's post on page 8. Well, if you love crafting and a system that caters to crafters well, you may want to follow the development of Dark and Light. From what I've read on it, there are going to be variables in crafting quality based on skill, materials, weather, time of year, and what constellations are in the sky, not to mention group crafting projects and skill based upgrading. I don't know anything about the combat system as they're very quiet about it, but there will also be alot of politics including a social xp ladder of sorts used, in part, to attain titles over towns, regions, fortresses and even all the way up to an entire kingdom. It would be better to just check it out instead of listen to me ramble. est. release time Nov. 05 www.darkandlight.com
Is D&L in Beta yet? If it isn't I consider it Vaporware.... what it's promising is very very cool but I question their ability to make it all work within 6 months if they aren't already in Beta.
Hell, you're bolder then me. I pretty much consider it vaporware now til its on the shelf and selling.
I look at it this way: Horizons promised the world when it was in development. By the time they got to Beta 1 it was a completely different game than originally promised.
Dawn / Mourning promised a really amazing game in development and by the time it hit Beta it was just flat out horrid.
MEO promised a really interesting and deep game and now that Turbine has it they're axing many of the things that made it so different.
MXO promised to be a really "awesome" MMO and they can't even get 60k subscribers 6 months after release?
What makes anyone thing D&L is going to be different? They're offering the world but they're not even in Beta 1 yet and it's only 6 months, oops 5 months, until they are supposed to release?
I'm not buying it
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
I don't know exactly how long they've been on beta, but I know they're gearing up for a server stress test soon. I don't know how much the final product will offer, though. But anyway, it is in beta at this point. The release date will probably get pushed past nov. by the look of it. However, it's way past vaporware. I don't care to speculate on the matter when it's easier for you to go to the site and check it yourself. I was just bringing up the game because, if it provides half of what they say for crafting then it'll be surpassing swg's crafting system in my opinion. That's saying alot coming from an ex-master artisan, architect 3-4-3-4, medic 2-3-4-4.
Comments
blkcat, you can claim we make numbers up all you want but per Sir-Bruce's site the numbers he has up for June are based on 'insider information' not 'company news releases'.
I don't believe the numbers because it's what SOE says. I believe the numbers because, after all is said and done, the game doesn't feel any more empty of players now than it did pre-CU... And on the 'new player planets' it feels more crowded than before.
My guess is that it's still pretty much a wash. Which is a shame... EP3 could have really given the game a huge boost in playerbase but the CU pretty much eliminated that chance by alienating so many older players.
As Noobia said, many of the changes broke/altered some classes so much that people who loved those professions quit the game. Yes, they'll be replaced by new players who don't know what it was like before, but those players are still gone.
As for me? The game is still fun. My guild is growing daily. And since the Curb we went from a group of 15 or so friends who just love to game together to a group of over 45, most of them new players that we're helping to learn the game.
There were things I didn't like about the CURB and there are things I like about the CURB... personally I'd have done it differently but this is how they chose to do it and, since I don't have a say in the development process I either have to lump it and continue playing the game I still enjoy or go play something else I don't like as much.
And, frankly, there isn't another game out there that I'm interested in
Trust me, if there were, I'd be gone. When I p layed in Beta I specifically REFUSED to buy SWG because spaceflight wasn't in and there were even more broken aspects to the game then than there are now (believe it or not). I didn't pick the game up until last June when they eliminated the holo grind, had introduced vehicles and spaceflight was around the corner.
My point is simple:
Right now SWG is the best thing on the market for me. And for 255,000 others evidently. Till that changes the game will continue to slog along. Hopefully it will improve on areas that need it and fix areas that are broken. In my experience SOE is pretty good about eventually getting it right. It just takes them a while...
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Again, I glad you like it. Play it, love it, marry it for all I care. However, dont quote figures like that without some basis of proof. The site that your geting those figues from states that the majority of their information comes directly from the companies in question. Is a company going to say their numbers are droping? Of course not. Thats bad PR, not that they havent gotten enough already.
I cant speak for your experience, but after 2 years and they still havent gotten it right, just doesnt sound like "pretty good about eventually getting it right" to me. Even you admit there is still alot wrong with the game. Some of which was wrong from day one.
To many people, SoE seems to be more concerned with adding new content, much of which is bugged, before fixing the problems of the past. From my stand point, that tells me they are more interested with making money, than puting out a "quality" product.
Again, I glad you like it. Play it, love it, marry it for all I care. However, dont quote figures like that without some basis of proof. The site that your geting those figues from states that the majority of their information comes directly from the companies in question. Is a company going to say their numbers are droping? Of course not. Thats bad PR, not that they havent gotten enough already.
I cant speak for your experience, but after 2 years and they still havent gotten it right, just doesnt sound like "pretty good about eventually getting it right" to me. Even you admit there is still alot wrong with the game. Some of which was wrong from day one.
To many people, SoE seems to be more concerned with adding new content, much of which is bugged, before fixing the problems of the past. From my stand point, that tells me they are more interested with making money, than puting out a "quality" product.
I'm not going to get into another arguement over this. I've already wasted enough time arguing this topic. But those figures aren't mine. They're from www.mmorpgchart.com. They have a B rating for accuracy (which, granted isn't the best but it's not bad). Furthermore per EBGAMES SWG is among their top 3 selling games right now (Go look at their website under PC games "Top Sellers".) Which leads me to believe that the numbers are more than likely accurate. They list under "Best Sellers"
Available Now
Guild Wars $49.99
SW Galaxies Total $29.99
Guild Wars HB $19.99
Now, I don't know where those RANK in their best sellers as they only list those 3, but this tells me that SWG must be selling pretty well. That coupled with my In-Game experience of not noticing any dip in number of players and possibly a slight increase and added to the fact that Sir Bruce is reporting 255,000 (the same number he's reported for the past 3 months or so) tells me that the game is pretty much coasting along number-of-subscribers wise.
I also state that we probably won't know for sure how this pans out till July when the initial rush of players from buying TE decides to continue subscribing or not. That should also be enough time to start seeing anyone who cancelled drop off the radar as their subscriptions run out.
As I've said all along. I like the game, others dont. It's worth a try. If you don't feel like spending the $30 to get the game to try it for 30 days then wait for a free trial. But as long as it's selling well (note: EB Games states on their website that it's one of their top sellers) there probably won't be a free trial. Free trials come out when sales are lagging, not when they're a top seller.
I'm done arguing the statistics with you. It's obvious that you refuse to believe them no matter how many facts are brought before you. If you want to believe that the game is dying because you don't like it that's fine. The fact of the matter is that other players do and the game is selling well right now. That quote from EB Games, by the way, is from Today.
To the original point of this thread:
No, the game isn't showing any signs of "dying"
Yes, in my opinion, it is worth trying. $30 is cheap for an MMO to begin with (most are $50) and you get all the expansions to boot and 30 days to try the game out. And with the Barc Speeder (which you can sell for 5-10 million credits) you won't even have to suffer through the typical "I'm a broke noob" blues if you don't want to.
If you don't feel like forking out $30 to try it then wait for a free trial. I suspect it'll be a wait of several months though.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Here comes the next conspiracy theory fan. Unless SOE is recruiting Austrians working in the power supply field and who still pay for their own subscription I dont think there is such a conspiracy. Cause i DO like the game post-CU, even if there is a long bug list to fix and CSRs need to get up to the standard they showed first quarter 2005. SOE, if you read this ... HIRE ME HIRE ME .. SHOWER ME WITH MONEY, WILL YA ?!
Some people like the combat revamp (at least in part), some dont. You hear various opinions here on the forum. You also can read a lot of critical remarks from those who like SWG, but those are the posts that are conveniently overlooked by the SWG flamers. Does not fit into their concept of "SWG/SOE is EVIL"... constructive criticism is something they left behind long ago.
Have fun
Erillion
You miss my point, its right there on the top of my head......I mean.....
Really, i mean it seems that people that dont like the game always pick up a fo;;owing of pro-game greifers (especially on SOE/SWG forums) who's only response seems to be a scripted "quit already, and leave us alone cause we like the game". Problem is, what of all the help veteran players have given all the new players who have taken our game, and now tell us "up yours! we dont care if you dont like the game"? If you like the game, fine, play all you want, Sony loves you, but dont come on a forum and defend shady business practices and tell some one who got robbed too bad, have a nice day. It's insulting. Response to constructive criticism has been lacking, if you were to read the old posts about the CU, the majority of players from the TC who gave feedback, gave NEGATIVE feedback to the CU and suggested more work before going live with it. Also, the level based system wasnt in the Test Center when played, so the whole CU isnt what was being sold. Do you follow what I am saying?
I know I don't sound like a Sony employee. I call a spade a spade, and there are a lotta spades in this deck. But there's still fun to be had. And I'm not going to say there isn't just because they nerfed my first couple of choices of fun and broke a few others. The game has massive appeal to a certain kind of playstyle (which for the most part is NOT mine). No one can deny that. Just like no sane person can deny it's terminally broken in parts and CSR sucks the sweat off a rancour's privates.
Thing is, I still manage to have fun. And as broken and sucky as it is in places, it's still more fun than WOW, GW, AO or anything else out there. If you hate SOE, you might as well forget all about Matrix, since it's been slated for a sony takeover, or so I hear. Maybe I'm more tolerant since NO game caters to my playstyle and most games bore me so much I'd rather take up cross stitch than bother with them. SWG, even broken, nerfed and turned into EQ is closer than anything else out there. Though if anyone DOES make a game that puts as much importance and care into crafting and gets it right, I'll be cancelled and subbed there so fast SOE's collective ears will burst from the sonic boom of my departure.
I agree with everything you say except I am leaving the game to explore other activities, like smoking crack, or becoming a Llahma trainer for the circus, or maybe I will finally start remodeling the house.......
Ohhh, the Llahma trainer thing sounds fun.
So ...
Unless I missed him or her already telling us, I'm wondering if the OP decided to get the game or not.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
I think I just went blind trying to read that huge font!
LOL
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Yeah...
In response to azrarn's post on page 8.
Well, if you love crafting and a system that caters to crafters well, you may want to follow the development of Dark and Light. From what I've read on it, there are going to be variables in crafting quality based on skill, materials, weather, time of year, and what constellations are in the sky, not to mention group crafting projects and skill based upgrading. I don't know anything about the combat system as they're very quiet about it, but there will also be alot of politics including a social xp ladder of sorts used, in part, to attain titles over towns, regions, fortresses and even all the way up to an entire kingdom.
It would be better to just check it out instead of listen to me ramble. est. release time Nov. 05
www.darkandlight.com
Is D&L in Beta yet? If it isn't I consider it Vaporware.... what it's promising is very very cool but I question their ability to make it all work within 6 months if they aren't already in Beta.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Is D&L in Beta yet? If it isn't I consider it Vaporware.... what it's promising is very very cool but I question their ability to make it all work within 6 months if they aren't already in Beta.
Hell, you're bolder then me. I pretty much consider it vaporware now til its on the shelf and selling.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Is D&L in Beta yet? If it isn't I consider it Vaporware.... what it's promising is very very cool but I question their ability to make it all work within 6 months if they aren't already in Beta.
Hell, you're bolder then me. I pretty much consider it vaporware now til its on the shelf and selling.
I look at it this way:
Horizons promised the world when it was in development. By the time they got to Beta 1 it was a completely different game than originally promised.
Dawn / Mourning promised a really amazing game in development and by the time it hit Beta it was just flat out horrid.
MEO promised a really interesting and deep game and now that Turbine has it they're axing many of the things that made it so different.
MXO promised to be a really "awesome" MMO and they can't even get 60k subscribers 6 months after release?
What makes anyone thing D&L is going to be different? They're offering the world but they're not even in Beta 1 yet and it's only 6 months, oops 5 months, until they are supposed to release?
I'm not buying it
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
I don't know exactly how long they've been on beta, but I know they're gearing up for a server stress test soon. I don't know how much the final product will offer, though. But anyway, it is in beta at this point. The release date will probably get pushed past nov. by the look of it. However, it's way past vaporware. I don't care to speculate on the matter when it's easier for you to go to the site and check it yourself. I was just bringing up the game because, if it provides half of what they say for crafting then it'll be surpassing swg's crafting system in my opinion. That's saying alot coming from an ex-master artisan, architect 3-4-3-4, medic 2-3-4-4.
www.darkandlight.com