The problem with innovation in the mainstream is that it's locked in with what gamers are getting tired of. Directed questing and generally gamey content, lack of the feeling of a free-to-choose-course in a direction-by-level world.
Until they change that, while innovation can help, it doesn't really solve the primary issue.
But people like questing and gamey content. There's little you can do to change that.
Everybody likes content. But it doesn't have to be questing I don't believe. As long as it's entertaining.
The question is, can you shift players from designed quests (as they are now) to more of a personal goals sort of thing in a world that as interesting in the Sandbox way as quests are in the Themepark way. I have no doubts in my own mind that you can. But you can't do it with less money and effort.
Originally posted by Mad+Dog not playing right now but go play darkfall if your done with everything else
Ah yes, just do that, then you'll be disguested of MMORPGs once and for all...
It does make me curious as to how Darkfall is doing these days. Been watching some PvP videos today of some skirmishes and I must say the new engine is a bit easier on these eyes lol. The game definitely LOOKS a lot better.
Originally posted by Krimzin Video is spot on. I will never have the feeling again of going from Qeynos to Freeport at level 6. The absolute terror I felt on that journey has not been replicated in 16 yrs of MMO Gaming. I've played every major MMO title since EQ always looking for that feeling, but never finding it. Don't get me wrong, There have been some good games.. Just no "Great" ones.
Recently I am back among the masses looking for something to play. Trolling around MMORPG and other gaming sites, looking for my next fix.
The only game on the horizon that holds any interest for me atm is Pantheon. Whether it comes to pass or not is yet to be seen. Until then, I wander aimlessly.
This ^^ Exactly. I feel the same way. I loved the run from Qeynos to Freeport at lvl 6.... and the fear for the baddies of the world.
Looking forward to Pantheon, for sure!
I am going to just say it
You will never get this feeling back.
I am looking forward to Pantheon too - but it won't bring the same feeling back no matter how good it is.
The only way to get this feeling back would be to erase previous memories and experience MMORPGs as something fresh and new.
don't believe me?
Go try P99 - you can do the same run and the feeling won't be back eventhough it's the SAME game, why - we've all changed.
Its not that we've changed, its that we've experienced it. Even my most favorite movies are never as enjoyable as the first time I watched them, yet amazement and wonder do come over me in the exact same manner watching other great movies.
I've spent many hundreds of hours in the zones from Qeynos to Freeport, and most of my characters are no longer at risk in such places. Even on a new character, I know what kinds of mobs spawn and where they are generally found. I've literally tracked half of them on their pathing nodes for farming something at one point or another.
If a new game was to offer a similar dangerous journey with the same risk (death penalty) I can tell you I would be wide-eyed and giddy once again. In fact, just the thought of it, a new place, new mobs and the mystery of the unknown makes my stomach turn with excitement. The problem is games no longer reproduce that scenario or utilize those mechanics. Mobs are always slower, stupider and leash a few paces after aggroing. Then if you do somehow manage to die (like eating dinner while watching TV, you end up nearby with nothing lost. Of course modern games can't give you that same feeling.
All a matter of opinion (both of them). WoW keeps boring the fuck out of me each time I give it a try and resub for a month, only to lay it aside for the boredom I feel within a week. Sadly that one MMO that I really loved for it's detailed world and fantasitic gameplay (Lineage II) went the way of WoW and I immediately dropped it after having played it for around 6 years...
I'm certainly open to someone posting an objectively deeper combat rotation than WOWs. Here's the bar to beat. (Several other specs have similarly deep rotations, even though I keep linking the Demonology Warlock rotation in each thread.)
So it's really not an opinion that WOW's combat is deeper than other MMORPGs. I'm really only interested in games which are deep and strongly reward mastery, and I have yet to find one deeper than WOW (not as an opinion; objectively as a measure of their decision matrices and how many dynamic factors modify the optimal rotation in any given situation.)
Yes, that does constitute an opinion. You can write that an opinion is either subjective or objective, but it's still an opinion.
I disagree that "decision matrices" and "optimal rotation" objectively denote depth. It looks like you are confusing complexity with depth.
For me, I've found that learning how to approach a human opponent in the six-degrees-of-freedom Newtonian environment of Vendetta holds much more depth than anything in WoW.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Yes, that does constitute an opinion. You can write that an opinion is either subjective or objective, but it's still an opinion.
I disagree that "decision matrices" and "optimal rotation" objectively denote depth. It looks like you are confusing complexity with depth.
For me, I've found that learning how to approach a human opponent in the six-degrees-of-freedom Newtonian environment of Vendetta holds much more depth than anything in WoW.
Depth isn't subjective. It's the measure of the challenge involved in mastering a game. For MMORPG PVE gameplay, the FFXIV rotation someone linked is the first evidence of a MMORPG's PVE actually being deeper than WOW's. From the guide he posted you can clearly see that players must juggle many factors to do well. Certainly FPS-style aiming in 3D space increases the depth of Vendetta, based on your description, but really it's more about comparing PVE quality when it comes to MMORPGs (since the vertical progression inherent to RPGs causes them to be bad PVP games; any depth gets eclipsed by progression or population elements.)
The time it takes any given player is subjective, but the challenge itself is objective.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Comments
Everybody likes content. But it doesn't have to be questing I don't believe. As long as it's entertaining.
The question is, can you shift players from designed quests (as they are now) to more of a personal goals sort of thing in a world that as interesting in the Sandbox way as quests are in the Themepark way. I have no doubts in my own mind that you can. But you can't do it with less money and effort.
Once upon a time....
It does make me curious as to how Darkfall is doing these days. Been watching some PvP videos today of some skirmishes and I must say the new engine is a bit easier on these eyes lol. The game definitely LOOKS a lot better.
Its not that we've changed, its that we've experienced it. Even my most favorite movies are never as enjoyable as the first time I watched them, yet amazement and wonder do come over me in the exact same manner watching other great movies.
I've spent many hundreds of hours in the zones from Qeynos to Freeport, and most of my characters are no longer at risk in such places. Even on a new character, I know what kinds of mobs spawn and where they are generally found. I've literally tracked half of them on their pathing nodes for farming something at one point or another.
If a new game was to offer a similar dangerous journey with the same risk (death penalty) I can tell you I would be wide-eyed and giddy once again. In fact, just the thought of it, a new place, new mobs and the mystery of the unknown makes my stomach turn with excitement. The problem is games no longer reproduce that scenario or utilize those mechanics. Mobs are always slower, stupider and leash a few paces after aggroing. Then if you do somehow manage to die (like eating dinner while watching TV, you end up nearby with nothing lost. Of course modern games can't give you that same feeling.
Yes, that does constitute an opinion. You can write that an opinion is either subjective or objective, but it's still an opinion.
I disagree that "decision matrices" and "optimal rotation" objectively denote depth. It looks like you are confusing complexity with depth.
For me, I've found that learning how to approach a human opponent in the six-degrees-of-freedom Newtonian environment of Vendetta holds much more depth than anything in WoW.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Depth isn't subjective. It's the measure of the challenge involved in mastering a game. For MMORPG PVE gameplay, the FFXIV rotation someone linked is the first evidence of a MMORPG's PVE actually being deeper than WOW's. From the guide he posted you can clearly see that players must juggle many factors to do well. Certainly FPS-style aiming in 3D space increases the depth of Vendetta, based on your description, but really it's more about comparing PVE quality when it comes to MMORPGs (since the vertical progression inherent to RPGs causes them to be bad PVP games; any depth gets eclipsed by progression or population elements.)
The time it takes any given player is subjective, but the challenge itself is objective.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver