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LOL...
I have never really been a hardcore PvP'er, and prob won't be excelent at it, but darkfall calls to me.
there is a LOT more excitment in survivine against more than just mindless computer AI. Even while I played AC I would go red for a week or two just for the challange. U go hunt, gather loot, and all that normaly, but with the extra element of danger added.. the next red dot can be after you in a second, and even running for your life can be fun.
I am NOT a pvp'er but u WILL see me at darkfall..promise you that. It is not for the chance to PK every noob, and not for the challange for a true fight(I will still PvP a lot, in any game, but this game forces you to think on your feet. I like that)
Also with a fully solid world(no one can walk though others) and alighnment system, it iwll be a true challange to stay or become good. I will be hell of a good runner, and I will turn my back and chase the horizon many of time, but don't you think I an't havin fun.
Just TRY to pk me! LOL
DF's world will be one of the largest in area of any MMO. They say its bigger then all the SWG worlds combined.
I can't wait for the game to be release, Its been a long time since I've had any really good pvp.
The only problem with that way of virtual-life is that when one PKer kills and frustrates 10 players, you are left with one player online instead of 11. If the game company is looking for monthly revenue, they would prefer to satisfy the 10 players instead of the one PKer.
From a business perspective, if I was making a MMORPG I would never allow unlimited PvP without serious consequences for the PKer.
--luke
That NPC protection is an excellent idea! I sure hope someone implements it.
Here is how i think PvP should happen...
First of all, everyone should be able to kill everyone else anywhere in the game. I like that level of realism...
That being said, there should be hefty consequences for killing another "innocent" player. For instance, a level 1 player is frolicking thru the woods near the town when an Uber-evil player comes and cuts him in half. The evil player should get tagged as evil (name in red or whatever), and now he is no longer innocent and can be killed by anyone without penalty. What the little level 1 guy can do -once he drags his dead ass back to town- is alert the guards. This will do a few things...
First, it will put a bounty on Mr. Uber-evil's head that any non-evil character can collect on. The bounty should be based on the level-difference between the characters, and should include xp as well as some cash.
Secondly, it will alert any nearby players of the evil doer's last known location at the time of attack -- they may either flee or attack him right away.
Thirdly, the evil doer will appear on a bounty list in town, and characters may petition to join or lead a "bounty party" to hunt down the evil guy. Lower-level characters will be automatically teamed with a group of NPC guards. The guards will have a fluxuating power, so that the bounty party will always be slightly stronger than whatever outlaws they are up against. They may not always win, but (technically) they should have the upper hand. Even outside of a bounty party, the poor lvl 1 guy will retain some sort of vengeance bonus when fighting Mr. Uber, should he try the same ambush again.
Of course like any good evil villian, Mr. Uber-Evil will certainly retreat quickly and stay hidden. So in reality it will be hard for Poor lvl1 guy to get vengeance, and the task of justice will generally fall to the hands of higher-level Good Guys - whether they fight for justice or bounty.
Being killed while having a bounty on your head will have dire consequences - a loss of xp as well as some looting rights... Essentially PKing should be made an event - and hopefully a fun event as good generally triumphs over evil.
Also, in many area - such as towns, well-traveled roadways, etc. there should be some traveling Uber-guards that will instantly respond to nearby PKing. Of course these guards will be fully killable - but guards should never offer much xp if any. They could even be in a cloaked-mode -- appearing as low level player-characters until attacked.
I also like that idea of being able to cloak yourself and hide your identity. Even evil-doers should be able to come into town if their bounty/infamy isn't too high and they are sufficiently disguised.
Also, i should add, there should certainly be consentual player-fighting, aka "challenging". Both players/teams can agree to fight without either 'turning evil'. They can agree to fight to the death (ie. winner gets to loot some), fight for cash (they place bets), or just fight for simple bragging rights. In any case the losing player doesn't really die, just gets knocked down to 1 hit point.
enough ranting for now... ciao!
--luke
First things first, gentlemen, no experience in Darkfall. Skill-based system ala the old, good MMORPGs - Meridian 59 and pre-Ren UO. This means that you'll be able to get your combat skills up to a highly workable level as long as you have some friends who are willing to spar with you.
There will be alignment hits for killing & looting members of your own particular racial alliance. On opposing racial alliances, it's free game. Between Orks and Men (or Mahirim and Dwarves, or Alfar and Anybody Goddamn Else, what have you), there can be only a long, bitter war to the death. The alignment system is erring on the side of laxity - you can kill a few people before it really comes back to haunt you, giving you some anti-idiot flexibility - which, honestly, is a good thing. On the other hand, it has its' punitiveness - once you become evil, most NPCs are going to refuse to deal to you, and you can never become "good" in the eyes of enemy racial factions. Once you ruin your alignment with your own racial faction, that's it. It'll be a bitter, solitary lifestyle if you decide to make your living by prying cash off the corpses of your nominal comrade-in-arms...at least until you recant and work your way back up, which will be not easy, by all accounts.
For those worrying about getting killed - Darkfall begs you to stop being the victim and instead become the hunter; heed its' call! Why always cast yourself as the one being slain? Cast yourself instead as the slayer! Is such not more exciting?
Darkfall will not be about teh phat lwetz omg j0. Full loot is in - you die, your body will probably get picked clean - and gear is being deliberately not-superpowered. Players will be able to craft most gear present, and things will probably pan out ala classic UO - most PvP-centric players using well-made yet simple player-crafted equipment, because it is "good enough" and is easily replaceable. Due to the high-speed, high-skill gameplay (you have to aim your attacks, like in a FPS), your ability to pwnz0r teh nwebitz and whatnot is based more upon your personal skill as a player than what the numbers on screen say, and whether you're wielding a Blade of Screaming Hellfire or just a generic Longsword_07. That's not to say that equipment and character skills/stats doesn't give you an edge, but it's hardly going to be an insurmountable one. One of the design goals of Darkfall is that 3 - 5 brand new characters, crewed by highly skilled players, should be able to defeat 1 veteran character manned by an inept-to-average player.
Of course, those who can sink more time into the game are going to probably become better players than those who can't - such is the way of things - but I'd say that's far better than being left X number of levels behind. Player skill is an intangible thing, and can be developed irregardless of your playstyle. Does anybody begrudge the athlete whose ability to dominate stems from incessant practice, or the writer whose sublime prose is the end result of endless writing, rewriting, editing and refinement?
Darkfall is the last, best hope for the PvP MMORPG genre. Ye Gods, let it not fail.
Well, let's see. We've got tons of screenshots from the earlier engine builds, but let's keep ourselves limited to just this engine, because you're obviously operating clearly off of what's just on the website.
First off, we've got the nine basic shots in the Gallery section of the Darkfall website.
Four screenshots in Travels on Agon #1.
Seven screenshots in Travels on Agon #2.
Ten screenshots in Travels on Agon #3.
Five screenshots in Travels on Agon #4.
And then there are seven screenshots in Travels on Agon #5.
So that's 35 up-to-date screenshots, and if we expand our criteria to include older screenies, we probably have that number again, if not more.
And that's not enough for you...?
The devs have guaranteed us repeatedly that Darkfall will be completed. The July 9th dev update stated, quite clearly, that funding is comfortable and no issue, and that they are currently quite well along in development (all character & monster models are done, for example). While I personally doubt they'll make their recently-reaffirmed 'end of 2004' release date, I'm pretty sure we'll be playing Darkfall sometime in 2005. And I don't regard that as a terribly optimistic statement...rather, a realistic one based on an extended period of following the game.
if you read the faq of darkfall website, they say that this game is suitable for casual and hardcore players. for casual players you can have as much fun as hardcore players. the developers promise you that and take their words for it. the game is like 3 genre combined: action game like counterstrike (close-up first person killing or 3rd person view killing), mmorpg like dark and light (explore/community/trades/politics), and strategy like age of empires (kingdom management/conquer lands). They have over 500 skills and 500 spells for you to enjoy and they are all skill-based which means you learn a skill/spell from other NPC or players. There is no combat levels therefore you do not need to invest a huge time in this game.
No safe zones - the landmark of this game. People worry that there are no safe zones - because one reason might be that you are a noob so you get killed all the time. You will not get killed because the person who killed you won't get far from the city because NPC guards and other players will bring you down. Same with thieves, they will bring you down. Unless you are in a remote area where no one is watching....then you will get killed. There are consequences for killing other players so people will only kill you for a good reason. Trading will be very safe in well guarded cities and also there is a trade agreement as I read earlier so what do you have to worry about? The agreement will gaurantee a safe transaction without worrying about the person killing you and steal your stuff and run away. Perhaps without the agreement, the trade is very risky. The devs have reason to make new ideas and they have ways to support their new ideas so there is nothing to worry about in this game. This will be a great game and when it comes out I hope everyone can play.
There seems to be a great deal of concern over various things such as casual vs power gamers, which in PvP games especially, is a highly valid point.
Darkfall does have an answer for this, as the prior posted said, DF Devs have long been aware of the problem, and their systems account for it. But I want to give a bit more information on how this is, as 'The Devs said so!' isn't a reasonable basis for faith any more, particually not after the whole SB fiasco.
Pretty much it works like this. You can gain any skills, and as many skills, as you wish. Each skill point you gain however, also has a weighting into a seperate value, the skillpoint pool. Combat skills like sword, axe, magic, etc, will more than likely have a 1:1 weighting into the soft cap pool. 1 point in sword means 1 point in the pool.
Now while the pool value is low, skills will increase very rapidly. Raising a skill will be a breeze, you first, and possibly 2nd skills will just shoot up. If you chose to do it that way. You could get 1 skill to 100 first, or you could have 5 (equally weighted skills) at 20, and you 'raising difficulty' will be the same in both cases.
Alright, with that preamble out of the way... How does that help in the Casual vs Powergamer issue?
Alone, it doesn't. But it was nessacery ot understand the next bits.
Each skill has a max value of 100. Sword, magic school, whatever. At 100, it is 'capped'. As I said before, getting your first skills up to 100 will be a breeze. Meaning that even casual gamers can get their chosen primary offensive skill right up to max in fairly short order.
It also means, that the 100 sword skill of a casual gamer, is exactly the same in strength and power as a power gamers 100 sword skill. In a sword vs sword fight, these guys are fighting as equals, as there is no uber items in the game. Item dependancy is *never* a good thing for a PvP game that is supposed to be orientated around player skill. And the DF devs know this too.
So the damage output from either side of the fence is not going to be vastly different, in a situation where the characters are even in their character skills, it will then be the *players* skill that dictates the outcome of the combat.
So, powergamers are then probably wondering wtf the point of being a powergamer is then?
Well, while individually, skills are capped, there *is no cap* on *how many* skills you have. Well, let me clarify, there will be no *hard* cap on how many skills. The skill pool as it increases will make gaining new skill points rather difficult and/or costly later on, but if they really have the drive to keep going, then they can do it.
Of course though, you can't use every skill all at once, so in terms of a casual vs powergamer, this fact makes little difference, looking at it from a purely advantage looking stance.
But whereas the Casual Gamer might only be able to fight with a sword, wear medium armor, and use a shield..
The power gamer might be able to do all that, but also have the option of using archery when they feel like it, or perhaps using an axe or mace when the mood descends.
It's all about options for the powergamer, and the ability to adapt to the situation. Their actual attacking power wont be any stronger than a casual gamers, but their variety of options will be, and assumably, the number of hours they put into play will probably make them more adept at the player skill side of the equation too. But in a purely statistical sense, there is little difference between the player classes.
Pssst, your shoes are untied.
Pssst, your shoes are untied.
I'm really looking forward to this game as well..
Hoping it steps up as the new big PvP game..
Best part of gaming imo is the PvP..
Nothing more exciting than challenging other players head to head!
I've been stuck playing CSUOGBL2...
BLEH BLEH BLEH
I really need something new to get me going..
Darkfall looks like it could definately be my kind of game..
Just curious how harsh the pking penalties will be..
I remember in Lineage2 the penalties for being a PKer were horrible..
Spend days and days leveling just to lose all of that xp for killing a few people..
Not to mention you could drop all of your stuff that took you the entire game span to get..
BLEHHHH
I hated that..
I went back to playing UO for awhile.. but they've just kinda messed that game up with AoS..
it's just plain weird now.. nothing like the old uo that I loved for years
Anywho.. I really hope Darkfall is going to be be the fun hardcore pvper's dream game with endless combinations that they're making it out to be on their site..
I was one of the first players back on Ultima Online in 1998. I quit when they added stat drops for pks and I haven't played another mmorpg since.
There is nothing like the adrenaline rush that you get from a real pvp fight that matters. You can't get that in EverQuest. Dying should matter. You should care if you die. Else, Where is the adrenaline going to come from? When I get killed, I want the other guy to be able to take everything I was carrying. Because when I win the fight, I want everything the other guy had. Otherwise it is pointless.
I believe that an unrestricted pvp game could work. I have read the arguments against the viability of an unrestricted pvp game. The principal argument is that this will result in the game sucking for all but those who play 40 hours per week. Not true. The necessary element is to group people together. Pit good vs. evil. Race vs. race, etc. The high-level carebears can fight the high-level pks for control of the map. That would be an exciting game to play. When you want to log-in to play to keep the dark side from taking over the entire world. Or vice versa.
Let the balance come from the players, not from the code.
If someone is running around killing people, the good guys need to hunt him down, find out where he lives, and burn his house down.
And everyone needs to stop whining about all the "work" that they put in to acquire their items. ITS A GAME. If you see it as "work" then why are you paying to play? Get a job.
You can bet your @$$ I'll be playing this. 97-98 UO. Much loved and missed. DF, the grail to my salvation. See you all there!
- Malkavian
"When you find youself sinking into Madness, dive" - Malkavian Proverb
- MMORPG.COM Staff -
Forum Stalker
Malkavian@mmorpg.com
"When you find yourself sinking into Madness, dive"
I just want to say that I think its only fair that the players who devote thier every day to get a powerfull char have a little bit more fun than the casual players. If they have an advantage in PvP I think its cool too. If I play a game 12 hours every day and then some casual player can just beat me up, I would be kind of disappointed! But if they make it so that a small group of casual players actually have a fair chance against me then it would just be more fun for everybody. This really shouldnt be such a big problem to implement but in most of the level games today even a big group of lowlevels have absolutely no chance against a high level char, so I am very pleased to see the UO- char style! How hard can it be to implement a form of engagement count that reduces the chars weaponskill for each opponent he choose to engage or engage him or something like that.
If indeed they make it so that the fun is somewhat having a powerfull social position in the game then its just better.
PvP is the reason I play this kind of games there is no fun in fighting against a program thats just lame.
This is definately what I have been waiting for FULL PvP FULL looting......yes finally a game were the little puke who camped the cave of the winding dragon for 2 weeks and got the super uber sword of mega buttkicker can loose his gear to me the guy who snuck up behind him and pwnd him. We need penaltys or the game gets boring!
If sharing my all knowing knowledge offends you I apologize........kinda!
If sharing my all knowing wisdom offends you I apologize........kinda!
As for as the power gamer will be x many times better than the casual player...
To give an example of what the devs are trying to shoot for...
One of the devs said that a "maxed' out character could be brought down by 6 people with brand new characters
the main site hasnt been updated for more than 6 months. there is some activity in the forums, but then again "If you want a real laugh go over to the official forums and see how many fools are over there "keeping the faith" for it." as people in the hype-meter say.
check the developer and the publisher's sites:
www.aventurine.gr
www.razorwax.com
both under construction for as long as i remember, both directing the visitor to www.darkfallonline.com and giving no other info about anything. you cant even contact the people there. no address or anything except a couple of e-mails (contact@aventurine.gr and contact@razorwax.com)
"the game speaks for itself. it is going darkfall."
http://dead-eternity.spworld.net/php/themes/smartDark/images/logo.gif
Dead Eternity's Alfar Assassin
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
-Albert Einstein
I played, the first 2 years of UO on Atlantic :P.I was a average gamer, i liked the big pk guild like Merc.CC,regulators and few other. I maybe killed 50 player in 2 years but DIE from skilled player is not bad, maybe young player will grief ect..
I must say finally, maybe a game where ANTI-PK from the old uo days will come back.... I just hope clan balance will be there, i dont want a WoW with 3 alliance for 1 horde type of game.
in EQ i never really saw a reason for PvP... except that noobs needed to settle an arguement over whos sword was better or somthing. but this game brings a whole new edge to PvP imo. you have the PvP CvC and the PvM all in one. not only that you don't have levels to be brutally thrown in the trash by a high end lvl. i think this game is gunna own. can virtually do almost anything you want in-game. need a break from PvP? theres the monsters and awsome skills. ive never liked PvP until i saw this. create your own kingdom to rule with no questions asked one day. the next your fighting for your life to gain control of it again. i never thought id see somthing like this. i defenitly want to see this game come out in the year 2005 before it gets overrun by other games.
Consume
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