As for the mmog industry....there is a price to be paid for mediocrity....and that is a good thing.Unlike too many failed BIG GOVERNMENT programs that never die.
That's like saying author A wrote a really great sci-fi novel, does Marvel Comics even have a chance? Or oh no, no one is ever going to read another Romance Novel again.
i am an MMO player, not a single rpg player with some exceptions.
I prefer the longevity, the interactions, the unpredictablity and virtual ownership and progression that single player games cannot offer.
So for me the OPs concerns are moot. As for my friends that play both - they usually leave for a while and come back in a few days (single player) to weeks (multiplayer) depending on the game.
Do you understand that some folks will play MMORPG's and only MMORPG's, right?
Are there enough of them? In fact, I know no one in real life (except may be on this forum) who will play MMORPGs and only MMORPGs.
Most people i know play single player games, MOBAs, other online games, watch tv, whatever that is on netflix and a bunch of other entertainment.
In fact, at least from my anecdotal observations (and yes, I will be the first to admit I have no statistics .. and if you do .. please share), most people do NOT only play MMORPGs and only MMORPGs.
I do believe Kyleran was referring specifically to video games and not TV/Netflix/Bowling/Darts/Hockey beer league etc. Some folks really do just enjoy one genre of gaming. I am not one of them, but I know a few.
First, i doubt any people who play video games don't watch movies or tv.
Secondly, even for those who play games mostly ... are there enough who ONLY play MMORPGs? You know a few. I know none. Does anyone actually have statistics?
They do watch TV, but they watch it much less than the average person.
"MMORPG gamers spend on average 21.0 hours per week playing the game (N = 1996), and spend on average 7.7 hours per week watching TV (N = 1996). The national average for TV watching per week is around 28, which is what the above averages add up to. In other words, this lends support to the claim that time that was spent watching TV has been displaced by MMORPG playing."
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think if AAA companies do disappear from mmorpgs it will be better in the long run as I think those AAA companies were all chasing an artificial "wow killer" game rather than a bunch of people trying to make a game they wanted to play and that's why they went wrong.
Who is still doing that? No AAA companies are making new AAA MMORPGs anymore. I think that fad has ended.
I think if AAA companies do disappear from mmorpgs it will be better in the long run as I think those AAA companies were all chasing an artificial "wow killer" game rather than a bunch of people trying to make a game they wanted to play and that's why they went wrong.
Who is still doing that? No AAA companies are making new AAA MMORPGs anymore. I think that fad has ended.
Originally posted by Vorian7 Ok where were most of you in my other topic for the explaining mmorpgs to the hew mmmorpg players? All of sudden your appearing in this thread.
Are you talking about how mmorpg developer should learn from those single player games?
The reality is the only reason they could do it is because it is a single player game.
Everyone could talk about how games should be but "actually making the game happen" is a completely different story.
Originally posted by Kyleran The tourists are leaving the genre, soon we'll have it all to ourselves again.
I wish this was true but sadly I believe we will be all dead and gone before a great MMORPG is released. If anything the genre will be even more watered down first,just look at all the BS about the FF14 expansion where people want to start playing now who have never played at all and expect to be into the new xpac as soon as they log in.
Don't believe that 'devs' will ignore this and further water down the genre so that this kind of thing doesn't happen again.We already have cash shop instant insert level here options in major games.I do wish your statement was true though but it is sadly deluded.
Originally posted by fivoroth I am playing GTA 5 and after that game I can't play a serious boring ass MMORPG
Same. It has Online mode and while I think they refer to it as a Sim, not an MMO I also think a Sim was what I was always looking for. Even the LotRO world to me is a Middle Earth sim. All the things missing in Los Santos that don't qualify it as a true MMO translated to grind for me long ago. I don't miss it.
For me I do play more singleplayer and multiplayer games than before due to todays MMOs dont really interests me, sure they are good for a week or two but thats about it.
I do play GW2 on and off since launch but 100% for the world pvp to get my pvp dose.
I dont expect a holy graal soon in MMO market but I do feel for me atleast MMO in a general sense is gone.
MMOs have a somewhat unique struggle, in that if you build them around typical hero gameplay, it weakens the experience somewhat. Or, at the very least it weakens the staying power of the MMO.
Single player games don't have this problem. They can make you feel as powerful as you want. You can literally be a god amongst ants. You can be the most overpowered thing in the universe, and the game can make you feel like 'hey that was all you buddy!', which is something a lot of people want. Do too much of that in an MMO and you literally break the game for everyone.
As a result MMOs have to walk this sort of tightrope, appealing to everyone's egos (sense of heroism), while at the same time trying to provide balance / enjoyable gameplay. They also have to deal w/ the simple fact that there are just more games out now than have been in the past. This means more things competing for a player's freetime and less likely that your game will hold on to players for years and years.
That's one of the things GW2 seems to understand better than most other MMOs. It embraces this fact and plans accordingly.
Originally posted by fivoroth I am playing GTA 5 and after that game I can't play a serious boring ass MMORPG
Same. It has Online mode and while I think they refer to it as a Sim, not an MMO I also think a Sim was what I was always looking for. Even the LotRO world to me is a Middle Earth sim. All the things missing in Los Santos that don't qualify it as a true MMO translated to grind for me long ago. I don't miss it.
Yet here you both are, on a site for MMO's, must still have some interest in the genre.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by fivoroth I am playing GTA 5 and after that game I can't play a serious boring ass MMORPG
Same. It has Online mode and while I think they refer to it as a Sim, not an MMO I also think a Sim was what I was always looking for. Even the LotRO world to me is a Middle Earth sim. All the things missing in Los Santos that don't qualify it as a true MMO translated to grind for me long ago. I don't miss it.
Yet here you both are, on a site for MMO's, must still have some interest in the genre.
May be they are interested in the new broadened genre that include all sort of online games. Since MMORPG has even started to cover single player RPGs, this place is clearly not only for those who only like old MMOs.
yes, not all player base focuses on Single player games. However, majority of players still wants MMORPG. Single player could bring a short term enjoyment for others but not for all.
Originally posted by gideonvaldes yes, not all player base focuses on Single player games. However, majority of players still wants MMORPG. Single player could bring a short term enjoyment for others but not for all.
back when MMOs were more variant and interesting, singleplayers were also more interesting as well. Half-Life 2, KOTOR etc. the amount of interesting games were a lot more as well.
so the quality of Singleplayers affect MMOs. publishers are willing to only go as far as Singleplayers and not that much further.
my top MMOs: UO,DAOC,WoW,GW2
most of my posts are just my opinions they are not facts,it is the same for you too.
Originally posted by Kyleran The tourists are leaving the genre, soon we'll have it all to ourselves again.
The only problem with this is that when tourists leave, so does their money. As soon as these tourists "move on" do you really think that things are going to get better? The big complaints right now are about innovation, but will less money make that better? Meh..... The biggest innovations will be about how lean a dev team can be and still get work done. With reduced budgets, MMORPG development is going to be like pissing through a pinhole, super messy, mostly pointless, and it's just something you really just want to try.
Millions of dollars does not a good MMO make. To me MMOs shouldnt be about flashy graphics but about mechanics and gameplay. For example, Everquest is graphically archaic but has some of the best mechanics (from a conceptual perspective) than some of the most recent MMOs.
Originally posted by Kyleran The tourists are leaving the genre, soon we'll have it all to ourselves again.
The only problem with this is that when tourists leave, so does their money. As soon as these tourists "move on" do you really think that things are going to get better? The big complaints right now are about innovation, but will less money make that better? Meh..... The biggest innovations will be about how lean a dev team can be and still get work done. With reduced budgets, MMORPG development is going to be like pissing through a pinhole, super messy, mostly pointless, and it's just something you really just want to try.
Millions of dollars does not a good MMO make. To me MMOs shouldnt be about flashy graphics but about mechanics and gameplay. For example, Everquest is graphically archaic but has some of the best mechanics (from a conceptual perspective) than some of the most recent MMOs.
As another example, Destiny, for all its production value, received modest (at best) reviews. It sold (in no small part, I submit) due to brand (Bungie) recognition and the fact that it was released in a next-gen drought (one that's only beginning to let up).
It was the prettiest, most responsive, most generic FPS released on the new consoles so far (in my opinion).
Production value will never ensure quality. It can sure sell tickets, however.
As another example, Destiny, for all its production value, received modest (at best) reviews. It sold (in no small part, I submit) due to brand (Bungie) recognition and the fact that it was released in a next-gen drought (one that's only beginning to let up).
It was the prettiest, most responsive, most generic FPS released on the new consoles so far (in my opinion).
Production value will never ensure quality. It can sure sell tickets, however.
Production value is a aspect of quality of its own. Clearly people like production value, even if you discount it.
I don't think Destiny is a deep game, or even a good one .. but hey .. when it is in the steam discount for $5 (which it will some time in the future), why not enjoy the production value for an hour, even when the FPS action is generic? That is cheaper than a IMAX 3D movie, right?
Originally posted by fivoroth I am playing GTA 5 and after that game I can't play a serious boring ass MMORPG
Same. It has Online mode and while I think they refer to it as a Sim, not an MMO I also think a Sim was what I was always looking for. Even the LotRO world to me is a Middle Earth sim. All the things missing in Los Santos that don't qualify it as a true MMO translated to grind for me long ago. I don't miss it.
Yet here you both are, on a site for MMO's, must still have some interest in the genre.
May be they are interested in the new broadened genre that include all sort of online games. Since MMORPG has even started to cover single player RPGs, this place is clearly not only for those who only like old MMOs.
Online gaming still holds my interest. I also don't accept with blind faith the MMO definition.
According to the lists on the left, Need for Speed world is an MMO but GTA 5 Online is not. I've played both. Need for Speed world doesn't hold a candle to GTA 5 Online.
Then there is the basic game related aspect. I've been coming to this site for ten years. I'm a gamer. All this cookie cutter bullshit about MMO, single player, Moba, really doesn't mean much to me in the end. If I like a game I play it.
Then there is the basic game related aspect. I've been coming to this site for ten years. I'm a gamer. All this cookie cutter bullshit about MMO, single player, Moba, really doesn't mean much to me in the end. If I like a game I play it.
That is the point. Most players probably don't care that much about the label.
And if so, may as well call them all MMOs because it is convenient.
As another example, Destiny, for all its production value, received modest (at best) reviews. It sold (in no small part, I submit) due to brand (Bungie) recognition and the fact that it was released in a next-gen drought (one that's only beginning to let up).
It was the prettiest, most responsive, most generic FPS released on the new consoles so far (in my opinion).
Production value will never ensure quality. It can sure sell tickets, however.
Production value is a aspect of quality of its own. Clearly people like production value, even if you discount it.
I don't think Destiny is a deep game, or even a good one .. but hey .. when it is in the steam discount for $5 (which it will some time in the future), why not enjoy the production value for an hour, even when the FPS action is generic? That is cheaper than a IMAX 3D movie, right?
Hell, by the time Destiny hits Steam with all of the additional DLCs that have and will be added to the game, the overall value of the game itself will have increased even if for just a single playthrough.
Like you said, production value is an aspect of it's own, and I agree. Responsiveness and sound mechanics can make or break a game. One of the appeals about Destiny is that it does basically boil down to some mindless fun. If you have an hour to blow and just wanna go blow stuff up, Destiny is a good game for that. The story isn't exactly deep or super interesting, but it's there to lead you along. The most fun part is just blowing everything up and then see what you get for loot. It's like a FPS version of D3. Neither game has depth, but can be extremely fun to play in short bursts.
These "junk food" games still serve a purpose. Not every game necessarily needs to be extremely deep or meaningful. Sometimes mindless fun is good for relaxation. Then when someone wants more substance, there's still a myriad of games to choose from.
Comments
mmo`s are so bad you have to go back to single player.
only good multiplayer games are the souls games.
you mmo developers SUCK!
That's like saying author A wrote a really great sci-fi novel, does Marvel Comics even have a chance? Or oh no, no one is ever going to read another Romance Novel again.
I'm not even sure what to say about this post.
I also gave up on mmorpgs but are they dead?
No still millions play them paid or free two play/Buy two play.
So no there not dead at all people like me are niche not ones playing MMO'S.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
i am an MMO player, not a single rpg player with some exceptions.
I prefer the longevity, the interactions, the unpredictablity and virtual ownership and progression that single player games cannot offer.
So for me the OPs concerns are moot. As for my friends that play both - they usually leave for a while and come back in a few days (single player) to weeks (multiplayer) depending on the game.
They do watch TV, but they watch it much less than the average person.
"MMORPG gamers spend on average 21.0 hours per week playing the game (N = 1996), and spend on average 7.7 hours per week watching TV (N = 1996). The national average for TV watching per week is around 28, which is what the above averages add up to. In other words, this lends support to the claim that time that was spent watching TV has been displaced by MMORPG playing."
http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/000891.php
Still looking for that other statistic you were asking about.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Who is still doing that? No AAA companies are making new AAA MMORPGs anymore. I think that fad has ended.
I have always played MMO's, JUST MMO's but games like GTA V and Witcher 3 is tempting me to play them as well! That's a first for me!
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
Good.
Are you talking about how mmorpg developer should learn from those single player games?
The reality is the only reason they could do it is because it is a single player game.
Everyone could talk about how games should be but "actually making the game happen" is a completely different story.
I wish this was true but sadly I believe we will be all dead and gone before a great MMORPG is released. If anything the genre will be even more watered down first,just look at all the BS about the FF14 expansion where people want to start playing now who have never played at all and expect to be into the new xpac as soon as they log in.
Don't believe that 'devs' will ignore this and further water down the genre so that this kind of thing doesn't happen again.We already have cash shop instant insert level here options in major games.I do wish your statement was true though but it is sadly deluded.
Same. It has Online mode and while I think they refer to it as a Sim, not an MMO I also think a Sim was what I was always looking for. Even the LotRO world to me is a Middle Earth sim. All the things missing in Los Santos that don't qualify it as a true MMO translated to grind for me long ago. I don't miss it.
MMOs have a somewhat unique struggle, in that if you build them around typical hero gameplay, it weakens the experience somewhat. Or, at the very least it weakens the staying power of the MMO.
Single player games don't have this problem. They can make you feel as powerful as you want. You can literally be a god amongst ants. You can be the most overpowered thing in the universe, and the game can make you feel like 'hey that was all you buddy!', which is something a lot of people want. Do too much of that in an MMO and you literally break the game for everyone.
As a result MMOs have to walk this sort of tightrope, appealing to everyone's egos (sense of heroism), while at the same time trying to provide balance / enjoyable gameplay. They also have to deal w/ the simple fact that there are just more games out now than have been in the past. This means more things competing for a player's freetime and less likely that your game will hold on to players for years and years.
That's one of the things GW2 seems to understand better than most other MMOs. It embraces this fact and plans accordingly.
Yet here you both are, on a site for MMO's, must still have some interest in the genre.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
May be they are interested in the new broadened genre that include all sort of online games. Since MMORPG has even started to cover single player RPGs, this place is clearly not only for those who only like old MMOs.
How do you know that? Do you have data?
back when MMOs were more variant and interesting, singleplayers were also more interesting as well. Half-Life 2, KOTOR etc. the amount of interesting games were a lot more as well.
so the quality of Singleplayers affect MMOs. publishers are willing to only go as far as Singleplayers and not that much further.
my top MMOs: UO,DAOC,WoW,GW2
most of my posts are just my opinions they are not facts,it is the same for you too.
Millions of dollars does not a good MMO make. To me MMOs shouldnt be about flashy graphics but about mechanics and gameplay. For example, Everquest is graphically archaic but has some of the best mechanics (from a conceptual perspective) than some of the most recent MMOs.
As another example, Destiny, for all its production value, received modest (at best) reviews. It sold (in no small part, I submit) due to brand (Bungie) recognition and the fact that it was released in a next-gen drought (one that's only beginning to let up).
It was the prettiest, most responsive, most generic FPS released on the new consoles so far (in my opinion).
Production value will never ensure quality. It can sure sell tickets, however.
Production value is a aspect of quality of its own. Clearly people like production value, even if you discount it.
I don't think Destiny is a deep game, or even a good one .. but hey .. when it is in the steam discount for $5 (which it will some time in the future), why not enjoy the production value for an hour, even when the FPS action is generic? That is cheaper than a IMAX 3D movie, right?
Online gaming still holds my interest. I also don't accept with blind faith the MMO definition.
According to the lists on the left, Need for Speed world is an MMO but GTA 5 Online is not. I've played both. Need for Speed world doesn't hold a candle to GTA 5 Online.
Then there is the basic game related aspect. I've been coming to this site for ten years. I'm a gamer. All this cookie cutter bullshit about MMO, single player, Moba, really doesn't mean much to me in the end. If I like a game I play it.
That is the point. Most players probably don't care that much about the label.
And if so, may as well call them all MMOs because it is convenient.
Hell, by the time Destiny hits Steam with all of the additional DLCs that have and will be added to the game, the overall value of the game itself will have increased even if for just a single playthrough.
Like you said, production value is an aspect of it's own, and I agree. Responsiveness and sound mechanics can make or break a game. One of the appeals about Destiny is that it does basically boil down to some mindless fun. If you have an hour to blow and just wanna go blow stuff up, Destiny is a good game for that. The story isn't exactly deep or super interesting, but it's there to lead you along. The most fun part is just blowing everything up and then see what you get for loot. It's like a FPS version of D3. Neither game has depth, but can be extremely fun to play in short bursts.
These "junk food" games still serve a purpose. Not every game necessarily needs to be extremely deep or meaningful. Sometimes mindless fun is good for relaxation. Then when someone wants more substance, there's still a myriad of games to choose from.