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New players and the expansion. Massive barrier to entry. You have been warned.
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Alright Foom, now you're concern trolling. The community here would not have jumped down you're throat if you told the truth. If maybe, just maybe, you're attitude wasnt shitty, people would not act like this. Now an example: I am a new player and I come here for a quick reference on what the game is like and this is what I got out of, "The so called game you love" "This games sucks" "You actually have to do story in a story driven mmo that we knew was story driven back in beta" ============================== Now all I can think of is BARRIERS and HOPELESSNESS. Now what you dont know: ilvl 90 gear is so irrelevant its rediculas. My god it's easier to get each character up to ilvl 130 now. So easy a child could do it. BTW if you dont like the story and only like to craft, then go play ArcheAge. Thats a SWG home for old players. ================================== to sum it up, and no I cant post past posts due to ToS, you confuse me. I remember you stating that this game has one if not the best story around. At one time you would talk up combat like it was the best. Bro, a lot of people here respected you, me for one, but come on. Don't scare away the new people. We need them. The more subbers, the more content, quality content, we get.
It all boils down to the expansion having tons of new gathering and crafting content that is gated behind hundreds of combat quests. hundreds. Like I said, players like myself will trudge through it. But we don't really appreciate it. The story is a good single player type rpg storyline. Sorry, thats not why I play mmorpgs. Just about every game in every genre has some sort of combat and story driven element to it. I play mmorpgs because it is probably the only genre that offers persistent, community driven, interdependent, non combat activities. SO sue me if I dont give a crap about the stuff this game does that every other mmo does.
I have a question for you Foom.
FFXIV has a payshop. If there was an option to instant unlock the crafting stuff and skip the story/battle. How much would you pay? And should there be an option?
You mean if I could pay 20 bucks and they unlock the crafting and gathering content only. Nothing else.
Hm. That's a tough choice haha. I would be paying extra to avoid content I don't partake in anyway. I honestly don't know what I'd do.
I completed the whole 2.0 story the same week of early access, before people knew the dungeons and overgeared them, even with the server full issues that plagued the game and there was no queue system so you had to click start > character over and over and over until you finally managed to get in. I then completed all of the 2.1 to 2.4 quests in a weekend, and both parts of 2.5 a few hours after they were released, including Steps of Faith pre-nerf with a DF group.
It's only a massive barrier for people that don't want to do it.
Sums up what I saw in this thread as well, you also hit on my exact thoughts about the "this game is different" posts of the past.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You will need to get to i90 over the process of completing the main scenario quests. The reason is that some of them require you to do trials that have ilvl requirements. The last trial, Steps of Faith, is the one that requires i90. It is relatively easy to achieve this through normal play of lvl 50 dungeons and ct/st/wod.
Better than most others out there these days tbh, barring WoW of course.
wait to access the expansion we need certain level gears? i thought like WoW you would instantly get new gears for higher levels after some quests.
Edit nevermind read the comments. seems it easy to get normal gear. i done all the story quests at launch and i am fine doing the new ones leading the expansion if there are any. i would do that anyway
my top MMOs: UO,DAOC,WoW,GW2
most of my posts are just my opinions they are not facts,it is the same for you too.
Crafting and gathering still has its place in this game. There will be certain activities in the game that will be gated behind it in Heavensward. It's just rather common knowledge for anyone that's been following this game for any length of time that you have to have a battle class to progress through the bulk of the game. Once you beat the original story in 2.0 a LOT of things open up. In Foom's case, you could completely ignore everything else and just gather and craft and do non-combat activities. However, the story works in a linear fashion and the devs chose to make it to where you have to go through the story to get access to new content. It's just a design decision that has to be dealt with if you want to continue to progress, even if it's for non-combat activities.
Read the OP's post, and thought "Hmm... voicing a critical/unpopular opinion of FFXIV on the mmorpg.com forums... this should go over not well at all..."
Read more of the thread... Yep, exactly as I expected.
If nothing else, y'all are consistent in your intolerance of any opinion but your own.
It's probably pointless to ask, and I've been around here long enough to know I won't get an honest, thought out response... but honestly... why are you people so hostile toward an opinion you disagree with? Afraid someone pointing out something about the game they don't personally like is going to somehow ruin it for you, or make you "wrong" for liking it? What is it?
Why are you so protective of a video game? SE doesn't seem to be bothered by the negative opinions. From what I've seen, Yoshi-P seems rather open-minded and receptive to criticism... He even finds a lot of it valuable. Maybe you should follow his example?
And don't say "It's because the OP is trying to give an unfairly negative impression of the game" - because A) He's not; he's just sharing his opinion, based on his own experience... and
a lot of you do the very same thing in the other direction... making it sound like all rainbows and sunshine. If anything, someone like the OP is just balancing it out, and providing a more realistic impression of the game - as in, it's not all sunshine and rainbows. There are elements of the game that someone might find undesirable.
Read more of the thread... Yep, exactly as I expected.
If nothing else, y'all are consistent in your intolerance of any opinion but your own.
It's probably pointless to ask, and I've been around here long enough to know I won't get an honest, thought out response... but honestly... why are you people so hostile toward an opinion you disagree with? Afraid someone pointing out something about the game they don't personally like is going to somehow ruin it for you, or make you "wrong" for liking it? What is it?
Why are you so protective of a video game? SE doesn't seem to be bothered by the negative opinions. From what I've seen, Yoshi-P seems rather open-minded and receptive to criticism... He even finds a lot of it valuable. Maybe you should follow his example?
And don't say "It's because the OP is trying to give an unfairly negative impression of the game" - because A) He's not; he's just sharing his opinion, based on his own experience... and
a lot of you do the very same thing in the other direction... making it sound like all rainbows and sunshine. If anything, someone like the OP is just balancing it out, and providing a more realistic impression of the game - as in, it's not all sunshine and rainbows. There are elements of the game that someone might find undesirable.
Sad part is anyone who spends time on these forums knows how much I love this game. I'm getting berated by the same people who cheer me on when I talk about the things I love about this game haha
500k used to be good, then players expected 24 hour support, regional servers, large updates which require a large development team and a massive budgets.
As an example, ffxi had 500k subs. It had no regional servers, a fairly small dev team for most of its life, had no cgi to speak of and most importantly it only cost 15m to make (And it took them 5 years to make that 15m back), compare that to ffxiv and you will see why 500k isn't a good number. Heavensward is their hope to turn around the lower sub numbers, maybe they can do it maybe they can't.
Time weill tell.
Last I checked, FFXIV had nearly 1,000,000 subs. Even if it had 500,000, that's not a low number for a subscription based game.
Last I checked, FFXIV had nearly 1,000,000 subs. Even if it had 500,000, that's not a low number for a subscription based game.
It has never had a million subs. Don't encourage him.
There seems to be a misunderstanding in what is and what is not a community inside of a game. Members of a forum that isn't even of a game's main site and does not require an account or active subscription of said game does not represent a community in game. Even on the main site, it does not constitute a community inside of a game. The term "cheap jab" is in part appropriate because this thought process was not thought through; it reeks of desperation to try and prove something outside of the fact, while giving no proof while slandering an entire community other than a random website with a random thread and people that may potentially have played the game once... which further harms one's own credibility on such matters.
No one here -- myself included -- has proven to be a FFXIV player. For all we know, we could read things about it and become "experts" that no one will question. In addition to this, a community in game is different to a community on a forums that only has a subsection of a game with it's title. Also taking into consideration context and the reputation of said site -- how it's culture molds or melds mindsets whereby you may post in ways you do not normally -- one cannot reasonable assert anything with regards to a game's community.
Truth be told, I logged into this game this morning and saw a chat filled with people offering help, or asking for it. Group finder had various "learning / teaching" slots open, and running my daily roulettes resulted in multiple friendly greetings, funny banter (some of which I initiated) and happy partings. When comparing this to World of Warcraft -- a game that I bought game time with due to the sheer amount of gold I have and to check out the test realm / see what 6.2 will be about -- I go into a random queue as a tank or a healer and instantly see people insulting each other. DPS pulling for tanks. People calling hunters "huntards", tanks yelling at healers for not keeping up, DPS insulting tanks for being slow. DPS yelling and calling healers obscene words because they didn't heal me in time. Calling people newbs and scrubs for not knowing a single mechanic or making a mistake. People purposely pulling and leaving (happened five times today). I've been leveling two new characters from scratch so that I actually put use to the gold I spent, and this has been occurring even more in lower level dungeons. FFXIV doesn't have DPS that pull for tanks (me having several tank characters with their lions / bear mounts -- which requires hundred and hundreds of random runs -- this is mainly because if a DPS pulls, the group will likely wipe like the old WoW days of waiting for 30 seconds with white damage as a tank applies 3 stacks of sunder and such), it doesn't have people that instantly insult others (though it may have at the start, especially with the cutscene problem the community had to work through until it became a non-issue) and generally, if you ask a crafter for a piece of gear, they will flat out give it to you (another pro is that it has a rule whereby you can't post parsers to make others feel inadequate). If you ask in chat if someone could meld for you, you have fifteen whispers offering help. If you ask a zone for help completing a F.A.T.E you have at least five rushing towards you, with at least one saying they're just returning the favor for someone who helped them with that same quest and that they were asked to do such by them. The community does take care of its own as a whole to the highest degree reasonably possible while considering human nature. In part, this is because the game nurtures such, rewards it through various systems and is not just an innate kindness of the individual (which stands to reason why a person may act different when not in a game, but at the same time is irrelevant if we're speaking of a game's community while playing... which is the most important thing as that's the game you're playing as you know they're playing, and you don't really care what happens outside of your little temporary world). To say that 900K or so people all have hearts of gold is a statement no one will make; what is realistic and what matters is what actually occurs in game.
This game was marketed as a story driven game from the start. Yoshi-P said "even if you don't like MMOs, I urge you to treat it as a Final Fantasy game and then stop when you beat it" before it was even released. The storyline completion is needed to access further storyline. I will still be able to get level 60 on all my crafters without it; I will still be able to get to level 60 gathering without it. We will still be able to indulge in other things. In an interview, he even mentioned you will be able to access new areas without completing the storyline. We do not know the details of how some dungeons will be unlocked, but it is likely a few with be a part of the story, as it was in the base game.
Raiding is not required. Dungeons act as storyline points that have story. Systems can and will be available without completing the story. Such things as crafting an airship with your guildmates and setting out to unexplored areas, to be the first to discover a land and get its riches. With said items not respawning; if you get there first, it's yours. People trying to see something will always see it; our brains are wired as such. This goes for the good and the bad. Thus we rely on context, facts and experience -- not the weakest assumptions imaginable such as something you saw on the internet, on the forums, by random poster 229,025 and view that as law.
It's up to the individual to see the beauty in something. To find entertainment in it. To tolerate what they do not like (and everything we like has its faults). Sometimes we articulate thing in the incorrect fashion and are corrected. Such as the original post here in that it felt like it was scaring people off moreso than giving a PSA on preparation. Perhaps even my first response in quoting what I have always said in that it is a game that makes you work for things -- old school in that element -- and that it is a Final Fantasy game first and foremost... an RPG with a story. To be treated as a Final Fantasy Game. And we do not simply go from disc one to disc three in Final Fantasy VII just because we have said disc. We play through the story to get to the story. We may even grind to tackle content or bosses that are too powerful for us such as the demon wall in the Temple of the Ancients if we rushed our way through.
I had that thought as well lol...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
For FFXIV im not surprised. Isnt the 'journey' to end game already too long, and that is what their niche customers like?
If that is their 'winning' formula, then it will have more 'quests' between main story and end game as their continued strategy.
Unfortunetaly a lot of mmos use this development formula and as a result you get an mmo with little features and a lot of 'questing'. But... apparently thats what people like, and certainly the people that play FF XIV.
I would say, if people like this kind of questing, then at least therer should be a few mmos that cater to their interests, and even though this is a well known IP enjoyed by many, their actual single player games felt long winded and its an 'asian' mmo.
However, for a new player, whos not HARDCORE, but also could be a vet, wants to play a new mmo with lots of features such as housing, lots of raids, mini games, pvp, crafting, day/night cycles, NPC movment/alignment etc... then unknowingly will also want a game that spends less of its resources on 'questing' as filler. Also filler quests that are solo content go against the defining features of an MMO, but 'harcore' players like to do a lot of content albeit solo.
We should do a poll. Those who liked FF XIV that also liked lineage II, just to see that there is a correlation most likely. And I hate LII for the waste of time that it was, i spent a long time to level to not even reach end game.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
Oh come on!
If I had a nickel for every Tom Dick and Pratt, that came along and said " oh he is just giving an opinion" I would be lying on a nice sunny beach drinking rum and cokes the rest of my life! We are all grownups here and I think we all know life is not all rainbows and sunshine.
And yes, despite Foomerang professing his great love of the game, he is giving an unfairly negative impression. Perhaps not so much in his comments here, but with his unfortunate choice of wording for the title of his thread.
Anyone here can pick out a hundred different things they might not like about a game. Fine, tell us your opinion and we will tell you ours as we have done here.
But " "MASSIVE BARRIER TO ENTRY....YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED"
That's taking it a bit far IMO, particularly considering that the way Foomerang plays is considerably different than the norm in a game like FFAR. Therefore his comment isn't really about the game in general, as it seems the majority don't care. Its almost like playing Darkfall and complaining that you are forced to do PvP. I mean, really?
I just find this type of complaining about a game to be pure sensationalism and rather unworthy of this particular poster.
Sorry but thats how I feel about it.
Oh and by the way, when are we going to see someone posting positive comments about a game on these forums? Aside from Erillion and maybe a handful of others, these people are few and far between. But thats because we constantly need to be reminded by practically everyone here that MMO's are shite, Devs are morons and the average gamer is a clueless idiot.
Rant over, carry on everyone!
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Please explain to me why you can't discuss and debate things maturely? It's like you're trying to start a pointless bickering instead of realizing that OP took his/her time of day to voice their concerns and opinion about the game and their experiences. Clearly no newbie to the game I think OP deserves some shred of respect, not for him/her, but for the sake of this forum and morality everywhere. The internet can be shitty, but you're not helping. In fact you're giving the community of the game a bad impression.
OMG, why do I even bother?
Your name must be Tom.
What makes you assume I am part of the community of this game? Its typical of you "why can't we discuss the criticisms of the game" types, that anyone that disagrees with your opinions, is a "Fanboi!", and therefore an idiot who plays an obviously flawed game.
This is a criticism about personal preference. Thats fine. Just don't word the title as if it is a negative for the game, as in "Massive Barrier". It is not massive, except for a handful of gamers like the OP who play the game in a way that it was essentially not designed to be played as.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Sorry Wing, I just noticed that the full content of my post was not there.
Not sure if it will make a difference, to you, but I apologize if I came across a bit harsh, for that reason.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Players of this game are so afraid of the game going f2p that they rip the throat out of anyone that says anything negative about it. They don't seem to get that you can't protect a game in the way they think they can, it will sink or float no matter what you do.
On FFXI and WoW there were mass amounts of threads of loyal players complaining and there would be a discussion about it, there was nothing like the ferrocity you see in this thread and on the official forums. You can even be banned for complaining about a legitimate failing, mainly cause about 20 people will report you XD
The wording of the thread is what set people off I would imagine, they think enough people come here to matter in the grand scheme of sales.
yeah 2 years after release , plenty of subs and with a huge expansion coming in less than a month ppl are afraid of FFXIV going f2p
*cough*rift*cough*
Rift launched march 1 2011, similar player numbers to ffxvi for na/eu
The big Expansion that was supposed to turn the game around and bring in lots of new players, it launched :
Nov 12 2012
Expansion failed to bring in many more players and it went f2p:
June 12 2013
Every modern mmo has gone f2p within 2-3 years, I'm sure ffxiv is different though.
In all honesty though, even though the developers have hinted that f2p is not off the table I doubt they will do it. It would be seen as a failure and I can't see a company like Square ever admiting they failed. It's actually more likely they would run it at a loss than do that.
it is not about square it is about Final Fantasy. an IP that was even successful in MMO genre. they are obviously planning for more MMOs in the future plus they don't want the IP to be toxic in general. even if Square Enix gets bankrupt they can live the rest of their lives happily ever after just by selling this IP alone. the things companies like Konami or Capcom do to get their hands on it...(which probably they can't even afford)
my top MMOs: UO,DAOC,WoW,GW2
most of my posts are just my opinions they are not facts,it is the same for you too.
It's the IP and the embarassment of remaking an mmo and it still going f2p within a few years, which is why they probably won't do it.
They are a big company so they can afford to run a loss making title.