Ok, so now sitting on you arse in front of a computer is a sport? eSports are no more mentally taxing than a good game of chess or a long night of poker. I am anticipating that sitting in front of a TV flicking channels will be the next activity to be considered a sport.
This is not to say that eSports do not require skill and ability, because it does, and an enormous amount of it. But not everything requiring skill and ability is a sport. You need physical dexterity, reaction time, rhythm etc., to play a piano, a guitar, or any of a myriad of other musical instruments. Does that make playing instruments a sport? Let's not get carried away.
So shooting, archery, pool, horseback riding, hunting, golf, all not sports? I'm sure I could go on, but why? Unfortunately the definition of "Sport" is defined waaaaaay too broadly to make any sort of meaningful determination. By definition, eSports is a Sport. For clarity, though, I'd prefer if eSports remained labelled that way. As mentioned, also, ESPN has covered waaaay worse than eSports, so maybe Colin Cowherd should just pack it in right now.
Are these shooters, archers, pool players, horseback riders, hunters, and golfers laying on their couch in front of a computer or console gaming device, with a controller or mouse in one hand and a beer and chips in the other, playing a video game? If so, they are playing a game about the sport, not engaging in the sport.
See the difference?
Let me simplify it further for you. The mere fact that you have an "e" in front of the word is enough to says it all. It's an eSport, not a Sport.
"eSports" are being recognized by Olympic committees as "real sports". The Korean Olympic Committee has recognized eSports as a 2nd Level sport, similar to auto racing and chess. The U.S. gov't has allowed professional eSports players to be classified as Professional Athletes. ESPN is televising (poorly) eSports as well. These people and groups are far more qualified than you (or I) to determine what qualifies as a "real sport".
Professional eSports players need to be physically fit as well, since it impacts their game play. So no, they are not sitting on their couches eating potato chips. You're making a false distinction there anyway, comparing non-professional hobbyists with professionals.
Ok, so let me get this straight. According to you, a gamer who is playing a video game as a professional is playing a sport but a novice playing the same video game is a hobbyist? Make up your mind, is it a sport or is it a hobby? Because then it would stand to reason that non-professional people playing basketball are playing a hobby and not a sport, unless they at some point make it into the NBA, at which time they are no longer playing a hobby, and engaged in a sport.
... And you say I'm the one making the false distinction?
Listen partner, a sport is not dictated by the level of expertise in that activity, but by the activity itself. So if a sport is a sport when a professional is engaged in it, then it is a sport when a novice is engaged in it. It can not be a hobby when played by a novice and then called a sport when played by professionals. Again, according to you, when we as "novice" video gamers are playing an FPS, we are couch potatoes doing it is a hobby, unless we begin doing it professionally, at which time we then become world class athletes playing a sport.
uh huh. Gotcha.
Now you may want to be led by the nose by this Korean Olympic Committee when they tell you that playing a video game is a sport, and you may want to believe some in the U.S Gov't when they say that eSport video gamers are athletes, but common sense says otherwise. In other words, you can chose to be a sheep and be led by the nose and believe what a bunch of morons are saying, even though common sense says otherwise, or you can begin thinking for yourself and be a leader. Unfortunately for the world, we have an over abundance of the former and not enough of the latter. If we had more of the latter, the world wouldn't have people like the ones in this Korean Olympic Committee, or in the U.S. Gov't, saying nonsense like video gamers are athletes playing a sport. That would be funny, if it wasn't so sad.
Awww, angry that you are a huge failing pile of crap that no one would ever interview and he is a relevant player in the gaming world? Your opinion is irrelevant.
Originally posted by Jawbreaker23 Awww, angry that you are a huge failing pile of crap that no one would ever interview and he is a relevant player in the gaming world? Your opinion is irrelevant.
I doubt it, since they likely don't have issues from being abandoned and neglected as a child they're free to share their opinions in a fairly anonymous space. You know, instead of figuratively clamoring upon to a roof top and shouting "Me too! Everyone on the internet look at me! You better ask me some questions I am "different" and I have opinions about stuff!" or harassing publicly known figures as if said publicly known figures give a rat's ass about you and your dumb little dime-a-dozen internet blog.
Seems like another clueless person about Gamergate, and the movement is still alive and well moving forward. Hopefully we can rid ourselves of his kind of thinking with time as well.
Ok, so now sitting on you arse in front of a computer is a sport? eSports are no more mentally taxing than a good game of chess or a long night of poker. I am anticipating that sitting in front of a TV flicking channels will be the next activity to be considered a sport.
This is not to say that eSports do not require skill and ability, because it does, and an enormous amount of it. But not everything requiring skill and ability is a sport. You need physical dexterity, reaction time, rhythm etc., to play a piano, a guitar, or any of a myriad of other musical instruments. Does that make playing instruments a sport? Let's not get carried away.
So shooting, archery, pool, horseback riding, hunting, golf, all not sports? I'm sure I could go on, but why? Unfortunately the definition of "Sport" is defined waaaaaay too broadly to make any sort of meaningful determination. By definition, eSports is a Sport. For clarity, though, I'd prefer if eSports remained labelled that way. As mentioned, also, ESPN has covered waaaay worse than eSports, so maybe Colin Cowherd should just pack it in right now.
Are these shooters, archers, pool players, horseback riders, hunters, and golfers laying on their couch in front of a computer or console gaming device, with a controller or mouse in one hand and a beer and chips in the other, playing a video game? If so, they are playing a game about the sport, not engaging in the sport.
See the difference?
Let me simplify it further for you. The mere fact that you have an "e" in front of the word is enough to says it all. It's an eSport, not a Sport.
"eSports" are being recognized by Olympic committees as "real sports". The Korean Olympic Committee has recognized eSports as a 2nd Level sport, similar to auto racing and chess. The U.S. gov't has allowed professional eSports players to be classified as Professional Athletes. ESPN is televising (poorly) eSports as well. These people and groups are far more qualified than you (or I) to determine what qualifies as a "real sport".
Professional eSports players need to be physically fit as well, since it impacts their game play. So no, they are not sitting on their couches eating potato chips. You're making a false distinction there anyway, comparing non-professional hobbyists with professionals.
Ok, so let me get this straight. According to you, a gamer who is playing a video game as a professional is playing a sport but a novice playing the same video game is a hobbyist? Make up your mind, is it a sport or is it a hobby? Because then it would stand to reason that non-professional people playing basketball are playing a hobby and not a sport, unless they at some point make it into the NBA, at which time they are no longer playing a hobby, and engaged in a sport.
... And you say I'm the one making the false distinction?
Listen partner, a sport is not dictated by the level of expertise in that activity, but by the activity itself. So if a sport is a sport when a professional is engaged in it, then it is a sport when a novice is engaged in it. It can not be a hobby when played by a novice and then called a sport when played by professionals. Again, according to you, when we as "novice" video gamers are playing an FPS, we are couch potatoes doing it is a hobby, unless we begin doing it professionally, at which time we then become world class athletes playing a sport.
uh huh. Gotcha.
Now you may want to be led by the nose by this Korean Olympic Committee when they tell you that playing a video game is a sport, and you may want to believe some in the U.S Gov't when they say that eSport video gamers are athletes, but common sense says otherwise. In other words, you can chose to be a sheep and be led by the nose and believe what a bunch of morons are saying, even though common sense says otherwise, or you can begin thinking for yourself and be a leader. Unfortunately for the world, we have an over abundance of the former and not enough of the latter. If we had more of the latter, the world wouldn't have people like the ones in this Korean Olympic Committee, or in the U.S. Gov't, saying nonsense like video gamers are athletes playing a sport. That would be funny, if it wasn't so sad.
You say "common sense says otherwise" but you dictate a sport as something that requires you to be out of a seated position. Congrats on that logic. Sorry racecar drivers, paralympic atheltes in a wheelchair, sledge hockey players, hunters. Look, I'm not trying to convince you that you need to be in peak physical condition, or that eSports require you to even leave the house. I'm saying that there are sports which are classified as sports which require less physical and/or mental ability.
Here's a serious question that will tell me a lot about where your head is. Then I can determine whether or not to even entertain any sort of debate on this. Do you believe that ANYONE could become a professional eSport player if they invested enough time?
the 40 minute debate video on youtube on page 2 here really reveals Kluwe as a clumsy debater and his entire campaign against #gamergaters falls apart. How bad is your argument when it falls apart against a porn star's fact-checking live? And why is there a screenshot of Depression Quest in the middle of the article? This is just a garbage interview and a garbage story, and judging by other comments here the community's not buying it.
Originally posted by Whiskey_Sam Kluwe's not in the NFL any more because there were better, cheaper options not because of his views on subjects. He sells that sob story to play the martyr card and garner himself undeserved attention. No one cares what the punter thinks.
Oh he was a punter. So he wasn't an athlete.
I burst out laughing when he tried to sell himself as a football player and having to make adjustments to the speed of the game. He's just repeating things real football players say. His job was "catch ball, kick ball". Go look up some old articles from when he played. He has a long history of shooting his mouth because he thought he was more important than he was. Another in a long line of idiotic kickers.
___________________________ Have flask; will travel.
Ok, so now sitting on you arse in front of a computer is a sport? eSports are no more mentally taxing than a good game of chess or a long night of poker. I am anticipating that sitting in front of a TV flicking channels will be the next activity to be considered a sport.
This is not to say that eSports do not require skill and ability, because it does, and an enormous amount of it. But not everything requiring skill and ability is a sport. You need physical dexterity, reaction time, rhythm etc., to play a piano, a guitar, or any of a myriad of other musical instruments. Does that make playing instruments a sport? Let's not get carried away.
So shooting, archery, pool, horseback riding, hunting, golf, all not sports? I'm sure I could go on, but why? Unfortunately the definition of "Sport" is defined waaaaaay too broadly to make any sort of meaningful determination. By definition, eSports is a Sport. For clarity, though, I'd prefer if eSports remained labelled that way. As mentioned, also, ESPN has covered waaaay worse than eSports, so maybe Colin Cowherd should just pack it in right now.
Are these shooters, archers, pool players, horseback riders, hunters, and golfers laying on their couch in front of a computer or console gaming device, with a controller or mouse in one hand and a beer and chips in the other, playing a video game? If so, they are playing a game about the sport, not engaging in the sport.
See the difference?
Let me simplify it further for you. The mere fact that you have an "e" in front of the word is enough to says it all. It's an eSport, not a Sport.
"eSports" are being recognized by Olympic committees as "real sports". The Korean Olympic Committee has recognized eSports as a 2nd Level sport, similar to auto racing and chess. The U.S. gov't has allowed professional eSports players to be classified as Professional Athletes. ESPN is televising (poorly) eSports as well. These people and groups are far more qualified than you (or I) to determine what qualifies as a "real sport".
Professional eSports players need to be physically fit as well, since it impacts their game play. So no, they are not sitting on their couches eating potato chips. You're making a false distinction there anyway, comparing non-professional hobbyists with professionals.
Ok, so let me get this straight. According to you, a gamer who is playing a video game as a professional is playing a sport but a novice playing the same video game is a hobbyist? Make up your mind, is it a sport or is it a hobby? Because then it would stand to reason that non-professional people playing basketball are playing a hobby and not a sport, unless they at some point make it into the NBA, at which time they are no longer playing a hobby, and engaged in a sport.
... And you say I'm the one making the false distinction?
Listen partner, a sport is not dictated by the level of expertise in that activity, but by the activity itself. So if a sport is a sport when a professional is engaged in it, then it is a sport when a novice is engaged in it. It can not be a hobby when played by a novice and then called a sport when played by professionals. Again, according to you, when we as "novice" video gamers are playing an FPS, we are couch potatoes doing it is a hobby, unless we begin doing it professionally, at which time we then become world class athletes playing a sport.
uh huh. Gotcha.
Now you may want to be led by the nose by this Korean Olympic Committee when they tell you that playing a video game is a sport, and you may want to believe some in the U.S Gov't when they say that eSport video gamers are athletes, but common sense says otherwise. In other words, you can chose to be a sheep and be led by the nose and believe what a bunch of morons are saying, even though common sense says otherwise, or you can begin thinking for yourself and be a leader. Unfortunately for the world, we have an over abundance of the former and not enough of the latter. If we had more of the latter, the world wouldn't have people like the ones in this Korean Olympic Committee, or in the U.S. Gov't, saying nonsense like video gamers are athletes playing a sport. That would be funny, if it wasn't so sad.
You say "common sense says otherwise" but you dictate a sport as something that requires you to be out of a seated position. Congrats on that logic. Sorry racecar drivers, paralympic atheltes in a wheelchair, sledge hockey players, hunters. Look, I'm not trying to convince you that you need to be in peak physical condition, or that eSports require you to even leave the house. I'm saying that there are sports which are classified as sports which require less physical and/or mental ability.
Here's a serious question that will tell me a lot about where your head is. Then I can determine whether or not to even entertain any sort of debate on this. Do you believe that ANYONE could become a professional eSport player if they invested enough time?
Race car drivers, paralympic athletes, sledge hockey players and hunters are all engaged in a competitive first hand, original real life activity requiring real-time full body muscle memory and whole body physical coordination to accomplish their objectives. Many of which, mind you, involve some type of measurable danger making them susceptible to a real risk of bodily injury. They are not watching a computer screen, emulating, or otherwise role playing fake people in a video game to accomplish their goal. In essence, if there is an athlete involved in this scenario at all, it is the pixel characters on the screen, and we know how preposterous that sounds since pixels character can not be athletes. And therein lies the difference.
How many other sports can you mention that the athlete is sitting on his/her couch in front of a computer/TV screen, with controller in hand, moving characters created from pixels to accomplish a task. That's not sporting, that's gaming by every definition of the word. Twitch control and knowledge of game functions (map familiarity, weapon effects, class abilities) is really all a gamer requires to be successful. Having exceptional twitch control is certainly an asset, but that an athlete does not make. There are many RL professions requiring good twitch control of which none are considered a sport, and those performing them are not considered athletes. And many of them are just as competitive as video gaming is to gamers. A clerk typist, for example, requires exceptional twitch control to be able to type 100 words per minute but that does not make that clerk an athlete, nor did they engage in a sport when they typed the weekly agenda for their boss this morning. Pianist, guitarists, and a host of other musicians also fall into the spectrum of possessing outstanding twitch control ability.
Look, all I am asking you to do is to not be guided by self serving praise simply because you may be a gamer, and apply common sense and logic into this scenario. Yes, we love to game, but lets not delude ourselves into believing that we are suddenly world class athletes playing a sport simply because we have exceptional twitch control and are able to maneuver our fingers really well around a keyboard/mouse, or a game controller. Some of us being better than others because we posses greater twitch control, particularly those of us who are younger, and some of us because we are just smarter gamers overall. We are gamers playing a hobby we enjoy. Merely that and nothing more. But hey, if it makes you feel good to call yourself an athlete playing a sport because you are a gamer and love playing video games, then have at it Champ. Who am I to burst your bubble.
That said, I am not very optimistic that this would make any sense to anyone believing that chess is a sport, simply because the Korean Olympic Committee declared it so. And if by chance all you are telling me is that you have watered down the definition of the word "sport" to mean something other than what it was originally intended, than that's a whole different story and a very slippery slope indeed. In that case, we can all now be considered athletes playing our own individual sport regardless of what we do in life. In this way no one is offended, and everyone is happy. And isn't that what the world has come to now days.
Ok, so now sitting on you arse in front of a computer is a sport? eSports are no more mentally taxing than a good game of chess or a long night of poker. I am anticipating that sitting in front of a TV flicking channels will be the next activity to be considered a sport.
This is not to say that eSports do not require skill and ability, because it does, and an enormous amount of it. But not everything requiring skill and ability is a sport. You need physical dexterity, reaction time, rhythm etc., to play a piano, a guitar, or any of a myriad of other musical instruments. Does that make playing instruments a sport? Let's not get carried away.
So shooting, archery, pool, horseback riding, hunting, golf, all not sports? I'm sure I could go on, but why? Unfortunately the definition of "Sport" is defined waaaaaay too broadly to make any sort of meaningful determination. By definition, eSports is a Sport. For clarity, though, I'd prefer if eSports remained labelled that way. As mentioned, also, ESPN has covered waaaay worse than eSports, so maybe Colin Cowherd should just pack it in right now.
Are these shooters, archers, pool players, horseback riders, hunters, and golfers laying on their couch in front of a computer or console gaming device, with a controller or mouse in one hand and a beer and chips in the other, playing a video game? If so, they are playing a game about the sport, not engaging in the sport.
See the difference?
Let me simplify it further for you. The mere fact that you have an "e" in front of the word is enough to says it all. It's an eSport, not a Sport.
"eSports" are being recognized by Olympic committees as "real sports". The Korean Olympic Committee has recognized eSports as a 2nd Level sport, similar to auto racing and chess. The U.S. gov't has allowed professional eSports players to be classified as Professional Athletes. ESPN is televising (poorly) eSports as well. These people and groups are far more qualified than you (or I) to determine what qualifies as a "real sport".
Professional eSports players need to be physically fit as well, since it impacts their game play. So no, they are not sitting on their couches eating potato chips. You're making a false distinction there anyway, comparing non-professional hobbyists with professionals.
Ok, so let me get this straight. According to you, a gamer who is playing a video game as a professional is playing a sport but a novice playing the same video game is a hobbyist? Make up your mind, is it a sport or is it a hobby? Because then it would stand to reason that non-professional people playing basketball are playing a hobby and not a sport, unless they at some point make it into the NBA, at which time they are no longer playing a hobby, and engaged in a sport.
... And you say I'm the one making the false distinction?
Listen partner, a sport is not dictated by the level of expertise in that activity, but by the activity itself. So if a sport is a sport when a professional is engaged in it, then it is a sport when a novice is engaged in it. It can not be a hobby when played by a novice and then called a sport when played by professionals. Again, according to you, when we as "novice" video gamers are playing an FPS, we are couch potatoes doing it is a hobby, unless we begin doing it professionally, at which time we then become world class athletes playing a sport.
uh huh. Gotcha.
Now you may want to be led by the nose by this Korean Olympic Committee when they tell you that playing a video game is a sport, and you may want to believe some in the U.S Gov't when they say that eSport video gamers are athletes, but common sense says otherwise. In other words, you can chose to be a sheep and be led by the nose and believe what a bunch of morons are saying, even though common sense says otherwise, or you can begin thinking for yourself and be a leader. Unfortunately for the world, we have an over abundance of the former and not enough of the latter. If we had more of the latter, the world wouldn't have people like the ones in this Korean Olympic Committee, or in the U.S. Gov't, saying nonsense like video gamers are athletes playing a sport. That would be funny, if it wasn't so sad.
It's no different than a person playing football in their backyard with friends, versus someone playing football competitively in high school, college or as a professional. A person playing non-professionally in their backyard does not disqualify football as a sport. You chose the example of the person playing video games on their couch to disqualify video games as a sport. Bad example, bad conclusion.
But a more relevant example would be Chess. People playing Chess against each other online or in their homes would not consider that they are playing a "Sport". Most of them wouldn't I don't think. However, professional Chess players, especially those playing Olympic Chess are considered to be playing a Sport. The context changes how the activity is considered. Same thing for Poker, which is apparently an Olympic sport as well. If you're in Vegas, gambling to win, you're not really considered to be playing a Sport, but if you're at the Olympics, you are. Same thing with Billiards. Context changes how the activity is viewed.
Video games haven't made it to the Olympics and it will be years before they do, but the context of how the game is being played will change how people consider what they're doing. Professional leagues, played as they are in South Korea are considered Sports. People playing video games on their couch as a leisure activity are not.
Ok, so now sitting on you arse in front of a computer is a sport? eSports are no more mentally taxing than a good game of chess or a long night of poker. I am anticipating that sitting in front of a TV flicking channels will be the next activity to be considered a sport.
This is not to say that eSports do not require skill and ability, because it does, and an enormous amount of it. But not everything requiring skill and ability is a sport. You need physical dexterity, reaction time, rhythm etc., to play a piano, a guitar, or any of a myriad of other musical instruments. Does that make playing instruments a sport? Let's not get carried away.
So shooting, archery, pool, horseback riding, hunting, golf, all not sports? I'm sure I could go on, but why? Unfortunately the definition of "Sport" is defined waaaaaay too broadly to make any sort of meaningful determination. By definition, eSports is a Sport. For clarity, though, I'd prefer if eSports remained labelled that way. As mentioned, also, ESPN has covered waaaay worse than eSports, so maybe Colin Cowherd should just pack it in right now.
Are these shooters, archers, pool players, horseback riders, hunters, and golfers laying on their couch in front of a computer or console gaming device, with a controller or mouse in one hand and a beer and chips in the other, playing a video game? If so, they are playing a game about the sport, not engaging in the sport.
See the difference?
Let me simplify it further for you. The mere fact that you have an "e" in front of the word is enough to says it all. It's an eSport, not a Sport.
"eSports" are being recognized by Olympic committees as "real sports". The Korean Olympic Committee has recognized eSports as a 2nd Level sport, similar to auto racing and chess. The U.S. gov't has allowed professional eSports players to be classified as Professional Athletes. ESPN is televising (poorly) eSports as well. These people and groups are far more qualified than you (or I) to determine what qualifies as a "real sport".
Professional eSports players need to be physically fit as well, since it impacts their game play. So no, they are not sitting on their couches eating potato chips. You're making a false distinction there anyway, comparing non-professional hobbyists with professionals.
Ok, so let me get this straight. According to you, a gamer who is playing a video game as a professional is playing a sport but a novice playing the same video game is a hobbyist? Make up your mind, is it a sport or is it a hobby? Because then it would stand to reason that non-professional people playing basketball are playing a hobby and not a sport, unless they at some point make it into the NBA, at which time they are no longer playing a hobby, and engaged in a sport.
... And you say I'm the one making the false distinction?
Listen partner, a sport is not dictated by the level of expertise in that activity, but by the activity itself. So if a sport is a sport when a professional is engaged in it, then it is a sport when a novice is engaged in it. It can not be a hobby when played by a novice and then called a sport when played by professionals. Again, according to you, when we as "novice" video gamers are playing an FPS, we are couch potatoes doing it is a hobby, unless we begin doing it professionally, at which time we then become world class athletes playing a sport.
uh huh. Gotcha.
Now you may want to be led by the nose by this Korean Olympic Committee when they tell you that playing a video game is a sport, and you may want to believe some in the U.S Gov't when they say that eSport video gamers are athletes, but common sense says otherwise. In other words, you can chose to be a sheep and be led by the nose and believe what a bunch of morons are saying, even though common sense says otherwise, or you can begin thinking for yourself and be a leader. Unfortunately for the world, we have an over abundance of the former and not enough of the latter. If we had more of the latter, the world wouldn't have people like the ones in this Korean Olympic Committee, or in the U.S. Gov't, saying nonsense like video gamers are athletes playing a sport. That would be funny, if it wasn't so sad.
You say "common sense says otherwise" but you dictate a sport as something that requires you to be out of a seated position. Congrats on that logic. Sorry racecar drivers, paralympic atheltes in a wheelchair, sledge hockey players, hunters. Look, I'm not trying to convince you that you need to be in peak physical condition, or that eSports require you to even leave the house. I'm saying that there are sports which are classified as sports which require less physical and/or mental ability.
Here's a serious question that will tell me a lot about where your head is. Then I can determine whether or not to even entertain any sort of debate on this. Do you believe that ANYONE could become a professional eSport player if they invested enough time?
Race car drivers, paralympic athletes, sledge hockey players and hunters are all engaged in a competitive first hand, original real life activity requiring real-time full body muscle memory and whole body physical coordination to accomplish their objectives. Many of which, mind you, involve some type of measurable danger making them susceptible to a real risk of bodily injury. They are not watching a computer screen, emulating, or otherwise role playing fake people in a video game to accomplish their goal. In essence, if there is an athlete involved in this scenario at all, it is the pixel characters on the screen, and we know how preposterous that sounds since pixels character can not be athletes. And therein lies the difference.
How many other sports can you mention that the athlete is sitting on his/her couch in front of a computer/TV screen, with controller in hand, moving characters created from pixels to accomplish a task. That's not sporting, that's gaming by every definition of the word. Twitch control and knowledge of game functions (map familiarity, weapon effects, class abilities) is really all a gamer requires to be successful. Having exceptional twitch control is certainly an asset, but that an athlete does not make. There are many RL professions requiring good twitch control of which none are considered a sport, and those performing them are not considered athletes. And many of them are just as competitive as video gaming is to gamers. A clerk typist, for example, requires exceptional twitch control to be able to type 100 words per minute but that does not make that clerk an athlete, nor did they engage in a sport when they typed the weekly agenda for their boss this morning. Pianist, guitarists, and a host of other musicians also fall into the spectrum of possessing outstanding twitch control ability.
Look, all I am asking you to do is to not be guided by self serving praise simply because you may be a gamer, and apply common sense and logic into this scenario. Yes, we love to game, but lets not delude ourselves into believing that we are suddenly world class athletes playing a sport simply because we have exceptional twitch control and are able to maneuver our fingers really well around a keyboard/mouse, or a game controller. Some of us being better than others because we posses greater twitch control, particularly those of us who are younger, and some of us because we are just smarter gamers overall. We are gamers playing a hobby we enjoy. Merely that and nothing more. But hey, if it makes you feel good to call yourself an athlete playing a sport because you are a gamer and love playing video games, then have at it Champ. Who am I to burst your bubble.
That said, I am not very optimistic that this would make any sense to anyone believing that chess is a sport, simply because the Korean Olympic Committee declared it so. And if by chance all you are telling me is that you have watered down the definition of the word "sport" to mean something other than what it was originally intended, than that's a whole different story and a very slippery slope indeed. In that case, we can all now be considered athletes playing our own individual sport regardless of what we do in life. In this way no one is offended, and everyone is happy. And isn't that what the world has come to now days.
Ok so, first of all, there are eSport events which are, very much, first hand. There are events where they sell 30,000+ physical seats for people to come and watch these people....who are ACTUALLY there in person. Secondly, there is NOT full-body muscle memory required for racing, specifically, or paralympics for that matter (since they are literally unable to create that muscle memory). Race car drivers are actually restrained. So you could make the argument that a gamer would actually use more muscle memory than a race car driver. There is also strategy (in many competitive games) and mental and physical coordination required. Each game played is not pre-determined like, say, turning left. The element of danger has NOTHING to do with defining a sport. Even in racing, there are fewer deaths in an entire year than any typical day on our roadways. That doesn't mean that people who are driving to work are participating in sport. Also, if you're delivering pizzas, you also don't qualify as being involved in sport, even though you are racing to get a pizza to a house before time is up.
Why is it that you assume that these gamers are sitting on their couch? They have very specific setups, routines, desks, etc. Might be likened to setting up a car to race, actually. Twitch abilities most definitely DO help an eSport gamer. I'm sure that there are plenty of people who have superior twitch reflexes in every day jobs, too. You know who else has everyday jobs with extraordinary abilities? Longest Drive competitors. These guys can drive the ball further than any professional golfer, but they are rare (if ever) on the professional tour. Why? Because it requires more skill, knowledge, and ability. It's not singular. If it was, they'd be the best, because they hit the ball best.
I would be willing to concede on calling them "Athletes" since that implies physical fitness. Sport, though, is broader. Unless they redefine sport, in which case I'd be fine with that. However, there are plenty which require as much, or less, physical or mental superiority than playing a video game. In fact, I would guarantee that there are Olympic Sports which require less physical and mental aptitude than Professional Gaming.
This is honestly just a simple case of someone famous using a term incorrectly. eSports was never meant to represent gamers as athletes but was coined to refer to the competitive nature of playing games at large scale events.
i.e. like a sporting event
I think calling gamers athletes because of the term esport is a bit of a step towards false logic.
Ok, so now sitting on you arse in front of a computer is a sport? eSports are no more mentally taxing than a good game of chess or a long night of poker. I am anticipating that sitting in front of a TV flicking channels will be the next activity to be considered a sport.
This is not to say that eSports do not require skill and ability, because it does, and an enormous amount of it. But not everything requiring skill and ability is a sport. You need physical dexterity, reaction time, rhythm etc., to play a piano, a guitar, or any of a myriad of other musical instruments. Does that make playing instruments a sport? Let's not get carried away.
So shooting, archery, pool, horseback riding, hunting, golf, all not sports? I'm sure I could go on, but why? Unfortunately the definition of "Sport" is defined waaaaaay too broadly to make any sort of meaningful determination. By definition, eSports is a Sport. For clarity, though, I'd prefer if eSports remained labelled that way. As mentioned, also, ESPN has covered waaaay worse than eSports, so maybe Colin Cowherd should just pack it in right now.
Are these shooters, archers, pool players, horseback riders, hunters, and golfers laying on their couch in front of a computer or console gaming device, with a controller or mouse in one hand and a beer and chips in the other, playing a video game? If so, they are playing a game about the sport, not engaging in the sport.
See the difference?
Let me simplify it further for you. The mere fact that you have an "e" in front of the word is enough to says it all. It's an eSport, not a Sport.
"eSports" are being recognized by Olympic committees as "real sports". The Korean Olympic Committee has recognized eSports as a 2nd Level sport, similar to auto racing and chess. The U.S. gov't has allowed professional eSports players to be classified as Professional Athletes. ESPN is televising (poorly) eSports as well. These people and groups are far more qualified than you (or I) to determine what qualifies as a "real sport".
Professional eSports players need to be physically fit as well, since it impacts their game play. So no, they are not sitting on their couches eating potato chips. You're making a false distinction there anyway, comparing non-professional hobbyists with professionals.
Ok, so let me get this straight. According to you, a gamer who is playing a video game as a professional is playing a sport but a novice playing the same video game is a hobbyist? Make up your mind, is it a sport or is it a hobby? Because then it would stand to reason that non-professional people playing basketball are playing a hobby and not a sport, unless they at some point make it into the NBA, at which time they are no longer playing a hobby, and engaged in a sport.
... And you say I'm the one making the false distinction?
Listen partner, a sport is not dictated by the level of expertise in that activity, but by the activity itself. So if a sport is a sport when a professional is engaged in it, then it is a sport when a novice is engaged in it. It can not be a hobby when played by a novice and then called a sport when played by professionals. Again, according to you, when we as "novice" video gamers are playing an FPS, we are couch potatoes doing it is a hobby, unless we begin doing it professionally, at which time we then become world class athletes playing a sport.
uh huh. Gotcha.
Now you may want to be led by the nose by this Korean Olympic Committee when they tell you that playing a video game is a sport, and you may want to believe some in the U.S Gov't when they say that eSport video gamers are athletes, but common sense says otherwise. In other words, you can chose to be a sheep and be led by the nose and believe what a bunch of morons are saying, even though common sense says otherwise, or you can begin thinking for yourself and be a leader. Unfortunately for the world, we have an over abundance of the former and not enough of the latter. If we had more of the latter, the world wouldn't have people like the ones in this Korean Olympic Committee, or in the U.S. Gov't, saying nonsense like video gamers are athletes playing a sport. That would be funny, if it wasn't so sad.
It's no different than a person playing football in their backyard with friends, versus someone playing football competitively in high school, college or as a professional. A person playing non-professionally in their backyard does not disqualify football as a sport. You chose the example of the person playing video games on their couch to disqualify video games as a sport. Bad example, bad conclusion.
But a more relevant example would be Chess. People playing Chess against each other online or in their homes would not consider that they are playing a "Sport". Most of them wouldn't I don't think. However, professional Chess players, especially those playing Olympic Chess are considered to be playing a Sport. The context changes how the activity is considered. Same thing for Poker, which is apparently an Olympic sport as well. If you're in Vegas, gambling to win, you're not really considered to be playing a Sport, but if you're at the Olympics, you are. Same thing with Billiards. Context changes how the activity is viewed.
Video games haven't made it to the Olympics and it will be years before they do, but the context of how the game is being played will change how people consider what they're doing. Professional leagues, played as they are in South Korea are considered Sports. People playing video games on their couch as a leisure activity are not.
I don't know what point you are making by pointing out that a person playing non-professional football in their back yard does not disqualify it as a sport, since that is the point that I am making. The important point that you are failing to adress, is how can it possible for an activity to NOT be considered a sport while played in the house or on any occasion not being performed on a professional level, but would then become a sport only when played professionally. Again, a sport is not dictated by the level of expertise in the activity, but by the activity itself. So if a sport is a sport when a professional is engaged in it, then it is a sport when a novice is engaged in it. The inability for you to understand this simple concept, along with your acknowledgement that chess is not a sport when played at home, but is considered a sport when played professional, is not only dumbfounding, it wreaks of your not having a very good understanding, or applying a reasonable amount of common sense, into the subject at hand.
Equally disturbing is your factual assertion that poker is a sport, when in fact it is a highly controversial position being pandered by a very small but select group of people in an effort to "sportify" poker. This position is not a popular one, and only shared by those who would seek to gain from it. Again, just because there are a select group of people calling it so, does not make it so. In all walks of life, there will always be groups of people pushing agendas. This is one of them. The large majority of people do not classify chess, poker, and gambling as sports. It would be naive to believe that we could eventually come to agreement on a subject like this. You and a select few happen to believe these to be sports. The majority do not. That said, let's just agree to disagree, Mr. World Class Athlete Chess Player.
Ok, so now sitting on you arse in front of a computer is a sport? eSports are no more mentally taxing than a good game of chess or a long night of poker. I am anticipating that sitting in front of a TV flicking channels will be the next activity to be considered a sport.
This is not to say that eSports do not require skill and ability, because it does, and an enormous amount of it. But not everything requiring skill and ability is a sport. You need physical dexterity, reaction time, rhythm etc., to play a piano, a guitar, or any of a myriad of other musical instruments. Does that make playing instruments a sport? Let's not get carried away.
So shooting, archery, pool, horseback riding, hunting, golf, all not sports? I'm sure I could go on, but why? Unfortunately the definition of "Sport" is defined waaaaaay too broadly to make any sort of meaningful determination. By definition, eSports is a Sport. For clarity, though, I'd prefer if eSports remained labelled that way. As mentioned, also, ESPN has covered waaaay worse than eSports, so maybe Colin Cowherd should just pack it in right now.
Are these shooters, archers, pool players, horseback riders, hunters, and golfers laying on their couch in front of a computer or console gaming device, with a controller or mouse in one hand and a beer and chips in the other, playing a video game? If so, they are playing a game about the sport, not engaging in the sport.
See the difference?
Let me simplify it further for you. The mere fact that you have an "e" in front of the word is enough to says it all. It's an eSport, not a Sport.
"eSports" are being recognized by Olympic committees as "real sports". The Korean Olympic Committee has recognized eSports as a 2nd Level sport, similar to auto racing and chess. The U.S. gov't has allowed professional eSports players to be classified as Professional Athletes. ESPN is televising (poorly) eSports as well. These people and groups are far more qualified than you (or I) to determine what qualifies as a "real sport".
Professional eSports players need to be physically fit as well, since it impacts their game play. So no, they are not sitting on their couches eating potato chips. You're making a false distinction there anyway, comparing non-professional hobbyists with professionals.
Ok, so let me get this straight. According to you, a gamer who is playing a video game as a professional is playing a sport but a novice playing the same video game is a hobbyist? Make up your mind, is it a sport or is it a hobby? Because then it would stand to reason that non-professional people playing basketball are playing a hobby and not a sport, unless they at some point make it into the NBA, at which time they are no longer playing a hobby, and engaged in a sport.
... And you say I'm the one making the false distinction?
Listen partner, a sport is not dictated by the level of expertise in that activity, but by the activity itself. So if a sport is a sport when a professional is engaged in it, then it is a sport when a novice is engaged in it. It can not be a hobby when played by a novice and then called a sport when played by professionals. Again, according to you, when we as "novice" video gamers are playing an FPS, we are couch potatoes doing it is a hobby, unless we begin doing it professionally, at which time we then become world class athletes playing a sport.
uh huh. Gotcha.
Now you may want to be led by the nose by this Korean Olympic Committee when they tell you that playing a video game is a sport, and you may want to believe some in the U.S Gov't when they say that eSport video gamers are athletes, but common sense says otherwise. In other words, you can chose to be a sheep and be led by the nose and believe what a bunch of morons are saying, even though common sense says otherwise, or you can begin thinking for yourself and be a leader. Unfortunately for the world, we have an over abundance of the former and not enough of the latter. If we had more of the latter, the world wouldn't have people like the ones in this Korean Olympic Committee, or in the U.S. Gov't, saying nonsense like video gamers are athletes playing a sport. That would be funny, if it wasn't so sad.
It's no different than a person playing football in their backyard with friends, versus someone playing football competitively in high school, college or as a professional. A person playing non-professionally in their backyard does not disqualify football as a sport. You chose the example of the person playing video games on their couch to disqualify video games as a sport. Bad example, bad conclusion.
But a more relevant example would be Chess. People playing Chess against each other online or in their homes would not consider that they are playing a "Sport". Most of them wouldn't I don't think. However, professional Chess players, especially those playing Olympic Chess are considered to be playing a Sport. The context changes how the activity is considered. Same thing for Poker, which is apparently an Olympic sport as well. If you're in Vegas, gambling to win, you're not really considered to be playing a Sport, but if you're at the Olympics, you are. Same thing with Billiards. Context changes how the activity is viewed.
Video games haven't made it to the Olympics and it will be years before they do, but the context of how the game is being played will change how people consider what they're doing. Professional leagues, played as they are in South Korea are considered Sports. People playing video games on their couch as a leisure activity are not.
I don't know what point you are making by pointing out that a person playing non-professional football in their back yard does not disqualify it as a sport, since that is the point that I am making. The important point that you are failing to adress, is how can it possible for an activity to NOT be considered a sport while played in the house or on any occasion not being performed on a professional level, but would then become a sport only when played professionally. Again, a sport is not dictated by the level of expertise in the activity, but by the activity itself. So if a sport is a sport when a professional is engaged in it, then it is a sport when a novice is engaged in it. The inability for you to understand this simple concept, along with your acknowledgement that chess is not a sport when played at home, but is considered a sport when played professional, is not only dumbfounding, it wreaks of your not having a very good understanding, or applying a reasonable amount of common sense, into the subject at hand.
Equally disturbing is your factual assertion that poker is a sport, when in fact it is a highly controversial position being pandered by a very small but select group of people in an effort to "sportify" poker. This position is not a popular one, and only shared by those who would seek to gain from it. Again, just because there are a select group of people calling it so, does not make it so. In all walks of life, there will always be groups of people pushing agendas. This is one of them. The large majority of people do not classify chess, poker, and gambling as sports. It would be naive to believe that we could eventually come to agreement on a subject like this. You and a select few happen to believe these to be sports. The majority do not. That said, let's just agree to disagree, Mr. World Class Athlete Chess Player.
Actually, if you're talking about disturbing assertions about sports, then see the highlighted one above. Unfortunately your primary focus is on the physical prowess of an athlete. However, in reality, the physical component as a factor on the athletes overall performance is relatively small by comparison. Their physical performance accounts for less than 50% of their overall performance. Oh and that's for Marathon runners. Basketball/Baseball players are more like 25% to 33% physical, the rest is non-physical attributes. Do some science and it'll tell you that.
Actually, if you're talking about disturbing assertions about sports, then see the highlighted one above. Unfortunately your primary focus is on the physical prowess of an athlete. However, in reality, the physical component as a factor on the athletes overall performance is relatively small by comparison. Their physical performance accounts for less than 50% of their overall athletic performance. Do some science and it'll tell you that.
Dude, my primary focus is that it is either a sport or its not. Its really just that simple. On the one hand, it can't be considered just a gaming hobby if a novice is engaged in it, and on the other hand, a sport if a professional is engaged in it. Stop it with the word semantics. Is it just a gaming hobby, or is it a sport? Which one is it? It can't be both.
Actually, if you're talking about disturbing assertions about sports, then see the highlighted one above. Unfortunately your primary focus is on the physical prowess of an athlete. However, in reality, the physical component as a factor on the athletes overall performance is relatively small by comparison. Their physical performance accounts for less than 50% of their overall athletic performance. Do some science and it'll tell you that.
Dude, my primary focus is that it is either a sport or its not. Its really just that simple. On the one hand, it can't be considered just a gaming hobby if a novice is engaged in it, and on the other hand, a sport if a professional is engaged in it. Stop it with the word semantics. Is it just a gaming hobby, or is it a sport? Which one is it? It can't be both.
It's not semantics. Sports are, literally, more mental than physical. The physical component of a sport is actually a very small percentage of the overall performance of that athlete. Baseball, basketball and football are all more than two thirds mental and there are plenty of sports training books out there which will tell you that. It's the WHOLE reason that Sports Psychologist is even a thing!!!
Gaming could be considered either. Same could be said for anything, though. A hobby is something that you do with your spare time. So throwing the ball around in the yard is a hobby. It sure as hell isn't a sport. Sport is defined by a couple major components, competition and physical exertion. If you can prove, definitively, that someone playing a professional video game tournament is exerting themselves less than each official Olympic Sport then I'll relent. Period. Fact is that I know that, even at a physical level, there is more physical exertion in professional gaming than with some Olympic Sports.
Oh and I actually came across this article which was interesting while I was looking for physical exertion of eAthletes.
By definition, a video game immerses the player in a make-believe worlds, but the work of a professional gamer is hardly child's play. The international competitor must have the focus of a Buddhist monk and the hand-eye coordination of a neurosurgeon in order to defeat rival combatants in contests that typically last about 20 minutes. During that time, a gamer's heart rate can race to 160 beats per minute (equivalent to that of pro basketball player), while both hands work the mouse and keyboard at speeds of about 500 clicks per minute. They may be sitting down in a chair, but the sweat that pours off them suggests they're anything but couch potatoes.
500 clicks per minute and a 160 heartbeat for a sustained 20 minute period? Sorry, but that would be enough to kill most North Americans, with their Mac sauce blood.
When two sides clash that are born from the internet -- with no real leaders save for "celebrities" -- there is no intelligent debate. Just two sides trying to slander the other and targeting the actions of most volatile of people who claim to be members, while ignoring the actual points made by each side.
I've been a feminist for upwards of ten years now and understand what it means to be such. The troubles that stereotypes cause in real life and the harassment thereof for both men and women. Which was what feminism was all about -- breaking stereotypes in general rather than just for women. Also not oppressing others with your thoughts, or wanting to take something away. It was through education of the populace and generations, and not attacking artistic freedoms or personal freedoms. Now I am seeing self-proclaimed feminists who can't seem to decipher reality from fiction, who attack others and then play the victim... all the while cashing in on this con act. These individuals have no respect for feminism, but only see the dollar sign their click bait has. While I went to various schools for differing specializations (at one point even games design and business / marketing), one of those degrees was for Social Sciences, History out of a passion for said topic. As an amateur Historian, I am absolutely flabbergasted that anyone wants to censor works of modern art. This is tantamount to wanting to burn books in the past simply because they have words one person or group does not believe in. Or burning down entire art museums for the same reason, perhaps during war.
In my opinion, no intelligent or educated person would want artistic freedoms changed. In addition, it's our responsibility as adults to understand what is real and what is not. To know context of things. To understand the idea of writings and fantasy and alternate universes, and that our petty squabbles have no relevance in said creative expressions. Instead of chasing virtual things that are made up, attention should be spent on the real world. But maybe I'm just old fashioned.
That said, I've done my best to stay away from "Modern Feminism" and "GamersGate" for some time now. This is mainly by design, as I don't want to be an idiot who simply picks a side and says "Oh this side is evil," or whatnot without having a freakin' clue as to what I'm talking about (and then get cannibalize the side they originally wanted the attention of for their own means when their own artistic freedoms are attacked). That said, this has allowed me to see the true claims of those who are real benefactors of their respected groups. There is little wrong with GamersGate. There is little wrong with actual Feminism. Everything is wrong for the extremists on both sides who do nothing but slander each other as a whole, as well as people just learning one thing or getting convinced by one side without doing some actual f'ing research (by at least looking at the good of each side, rather than just the bad of one).
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Actually, if you're talking about disturbing assertions about sports, then see the highlighted one above. Unfortunately your primary focus is on the physical prowess of an athlete. However, in reality, the physical component as a factor on the athletes overall performance is relatively small by comparison. Their physical performance accounts for less than 50% of their overall athletic performance. Do some science and it'll tell you that.
Dude, my primary focus is that it is either a sport or its not. Its really just that simple. On the one hand, it can't be considered just a gaming hobby if a novice is engaged in it, and on the other hand, a sport if a professional is engaged in it. Stop it with the word semantics. Is it just a gaming hobby, or is it a sport? Which one is it? It can't be both.
It's not semantics. Sports are, literally, more mental than physical. The physical component of a sport is actually a very small percentage of the overall performance of that athlete. Baseball, basketball and football are all more than two thirds mental and there are plenty of sports training books out there which will tell you that. It's the WHOLE reason that Sports Psychologist is even a thing!!!
Gaming could be considered either. Same could be said for anything, though. A hobby is something that you do with your spare time. So throwing the ball around in the yard is a hobby. It sure as hell isn't a sport. Sport is defined by a couple major components, competition and physical exertion. If you can prove, definitively, that someone playing a professional video game tournament is exerting themselves less than each official Olympic Sport then I'll relent. Period. Fact is that I know that, even at a physical level, there is more physical exertion in professional gaming than with some Olympic Sports.
You are intentionally dodging the question. You must be a politician. And a poor one at that lol
Gaming is either a sport or it isn't. Which one is it? If it is then we are all athletes playing a sport when we are playing a game on our computers. You are saying nothing when stating that sports are more mental than physical. I am fully cognizant that mental psyche plays a huge part in sports. Like wise, no one is denying that a large portion of sporting is defined by competition and physical exertion. Those major components of mental toughness, competition, and physical exertion, however, are present in almost everything we do in life and most of them have nothing at all to do with sports.
So can we do away with the nonsense rhetoric and get to the crux of the matter.
So answer the question, Mr. World Class Athlete Chess player. Is gaming a sport or is it not? Yes or no. If your contention is that it is, then my 7 year old nephew is an athlete, and he is playing a sport when playing his favorite game of Chutes and Ladders in my uncles computer. He is very competitive and exerts himself enormously. I can tell by his focused huffing and puffing and occasional stomping and falling to the ground when things don't go his way.
So is my little nephew an athlete playing a sport now, or does he have to wait until ... oh I don't know, please tell me ... before he can be acknowledged as a world class athlete playing a sport?
P.S: It pleases me to read that you are frantically searching the internet for answers. Please continue searching. That caption brings nothing to the discussion. No one is denying any of that. My question stands, and remains unanswered.
Actually, if you're talking about disturbing assertions about sports, then see the highlighted one above. Unfortunately your primary focus is on the physical prowess of an athlete. However, in reality, the physical component as a factor on the athletes overall performance is relatively small by comparison. Their physical performance accounts for less than 50% of their overall athletic performance. Do some science and it'll tell you that.
Dude, my primary focus is that it is either a sport or its not. Its really just that simple. On the one hand, it can't be considered just a gaming hobby if a novice is engaged in it, and on the other hand, a sport if a professional is engaged in it. Stop it with the word semantics. Is it just a gaming hobby, or is it a sport? Which one is it? It can't be both.
It's not semantics. Sports are, literally, more mental than physical. The physical component of a sport is actually a very small percentage of the overall performance of that athlete. Baseball, basketball and football are all more than two thirds mental and there are plenty of sports training books out there which will tell you that. It's the WHOLE reason that Sports Psychologist is even a thing!!!
Gaming could be considered either. Same could be said for anything, though. A hobby is something that you do with your spare time. So throwing the ball around in the yard is a hobby. It sure as hell isn't a sport. Sport is defined by a couple major components, competition and physical exertion. If you can prove, definitively, that someone playing a professional video game tournament is exerting themselves less than each official Olympic Sport then I'll relent. Period. Fact is that I know that, even at a physical level, there is more physical exertion in professional gaming than with some Olympic Sports.
Oh and I actually came across this article which was interesting while I was looking for physical exertion of eAthletes.
By definition, a video game immerses the player in a make-believe worlds, but the work of a professional gamer is hardly child's play. The international competitor must have the focus of a Buddhist monk and the hand-eye coordination of a neurosurgeon in order to defeat rival combatants in contests that typically last about 20 minutes. During that time, a gamer's heart rate can race to 160 beats per minute (equivalent to that of pro basketball player), while both hands work the mouse and keyboard at speeds of about 500 clicks per minute. They may be sitting down in a chair, but the sweat that pours off them suggests they're anything but couch potatoes.
500 clicks per minute and a 160 heartbeat for a sustained 20 minute period? Sorry, but that would be enough to kill most North Americans, with their Mac sauce blood.
People are arguing for nothing at all, really. Though we use the word "sports" out of laziness, the actual term some people are referring to is "Athletic sports" when referring to such things as Football among other things. This is why Esports is called Esports; it is Electronic Sports. The incorrect assertion that "Sports" has to be athletic is the cause of this misunderstanding, and over time our own laziness and forgetting the nature of things has even led to dictionaries saying "especially of the athletic variety" due to us naturally thinking of athletic sports when someone mentions it.
There is an interesting video on this entitled "Are Esports real sports and does it even matter?":
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
It's not semantics. Sports are, literally, more mental than physical. The physical component of a sport is actually a very small percentage of the overall performance of that athlete. Baseball, basketball and football are all more than two thirds mental and there are plenty of sports training books out there which will tell you that. It's the WHOLE reason that Sports Psychologist is even a thing!!!
Gaming could be considered either. Same could be said for anything, though. A hobby is something that you do with your spare time. So throwing the ball around in the yard is a hobby. It sure as hell isn't a sport. Sport is defined by a couple major components, competition and physical exertion. If you can prove, definitively, that someone playing a professional video game tournament is exerting themselves less than each official Olympic Sport then I'll relent. Period. Fact is that I know that, even at a physical level, there is more physical exertion in professional gaming than with some Olympic Sports.
Oh and I actually came across this article which was interesting while I was looking for physical exertion of eAthletes.
By definition, a video game immerses the player in a make-believe worlds, but the work of a professional gamer is hardly child's play. The international competitor must have the focus of a Buddhist monk and the hand-eye coordination of a neurosurgeon in order to defeat rival combatants in contests that typically last about 20 minutes. During that time, a gamer's heart rate can race to 160 beats per minute (equivalent to that of pro basketball player), while both hands work the mouse and keyboard at speeds of about 500 clicks per minute. They may be sitting down in a chair, but the sweat that pours off them suggests they're anything but couch potatoes.
500 clicks per minute and a 160 heartbeat for a sustained 20 minute period? Sorry, but that would be enough to kill most North Americans, with their Mac sauce blood.
People are arguing for nothing at all, really. Though we use the word "sports" out of laziness, the actual term some people are referring to is "Athletic sports" when referring to such things as Football among other things. This is why Esports is called Esports; it is Electronic Sports. The incorrect assertion that "Sports" has to be athletic is the cause of this misunderstanding, and over time our own laziness and forgetting the nature of things has even led to dictionaries saying "especially of the athletic variety" due to us naturally thinking of athletic sports when someone mentions it.
There is an interesting video on this entitled "Are Esports real sports and does it even matter?":
Thank you for that link Yaevindusk. That video explains it better than i ever could. As I explained in one of my very first post, gaming is an eSport, and it is called an eSport in name only although many categorize it as competitive gaming, which is actually a more accurate description for the activity. What it is not, is a sport in the traditional sense of the word. And like the narrator says in the video, no one with any real knowledge of the subject attempts to say it is so. It is an eSport, not a sport. There is a distinct difference between the two.
"Kluwe: For all intents and purposes, the movement itself is over, but the people within that movement who caused the movement to be one of harassment are still very much alive and kicking. They are still very much trying to find people to harass."
Ah, confirmed for being an idiot who doesn't understand what GG is.
People are arguing for nothing at all, really. Though we use the word "sports" out of laziness, the actual term some people are referring to is "Athletic sports" when referring to such things as Football among other things. This is why Esports is called Esports; it is Electronic Sports. The incorrect assertion that "Sports" has to be athletic is the cause of this misunderstanding, and over time our own laziness and forgetting the nature of things has even led to dictionaries saying "especially of the athletic variety" due to us naturally thinking of athletic sports when someone mentions it.
There is an interesting video on this entitled "Are Esports real sports and does it even matter?":
Thank you for that link Yaevindusk. That video explains it better than i ever could. As I explained in one of my very first post, gaming is an eSport, and it is called an eSport for lack of a better word although many categorize it as competitive gaming, which is actually a better description for the activity. What it is not, is a sport in the traditional sense of the word. And like the narrator says in the video, no one with any real knowledge of the subject attempts to say it is so. It is an eSport, not a sport. There is a distinct difference between the two.
No problem! In my opinion, "sports" is something people toss around when the following is met:
Does it make money?
Does it have an audience?
Is it competitive?
If all three check boxes are made, the word "sports" is tossed in as it is an indicator of being competitive and thus people who enjoy watching competition (or the audience that wants to watch it) know where to go.
"Sports" is about where the money is now. Therefore, in business terms -- not so much traditional (which is "athletic sports" now) -- a sport could be something like "Motor Sports" or racing, as the video described. They make a distinction that it is not "athletic" sports, yet Nascar is widely considered a sport in its own right despite us normal people being able to enter a car and drive around in loops ourselves. The difference is the money, the competitive nature and the separation of how it is conducted (I.E. in a professional environment via tournaments, different atmospheres, rules, etc. and that people spend 12 hours a day training in "gaming houses", for example). Dedication to their craft is also the difference there.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
It's not semantics. Sports are, literally, more mental than physical. The physical component of a sport is actually a very small percentage of the overall performance of that athlete. Baseball, basketball and football are all more than two thirds mental and there are plenty of sports training books out there which will tell you that. It's the WHOLE reason that Sports Psychologist is even a thing!!!
Gaming could be considered either. Same could be said for anything, though. A hobby is something that you do with your spare time. So throwing the ball around in the yard is a hobby. It sure as hell isn't a sport. Sport is defined by a couple major components, competition and physical exertion. If you can prove, definitively, that someone playing a professional video game tournament is exerting themselves less than each official Olympic Sport then I'll relent. Period. Fact is that I know that, even at a physical level, there is more physical exertion in professional gaming than with some Olympic Sports.
Oh and I actually came across this article which was interesting while I was looking for physical exertion of eAthletes.
By definition, a video game immerses the player in a make-believe worlds, but the work of a professional gamer is hardly child's play. The international competitor must have the focus of a Buddhist monk and the hand-eye coordination of a neurosurgeon in order to defeat rival combatants in contests that typically last about 20 minutes. During that time, a gamer's heart rate can race to 160 beats per minute (equivalent to that of pro basketball player), while both hands work the mouse and keyboard at speeds of about 500 clicks per minute. They may be sitting down in a chair, but the sweat that pours off them suggests they're anything but couch potatoes.
500 clicks per minute and a 160 heartbeat for a sustained 20 minute period? Sorry, but that would be enough to kill most North Americans, with their Mac sauce blood.
People are arguing for nothing at all, really. Though we use the word "sports" out of laziness, the actual term some people are referring to is "Athletic sports" when referring to such things as Football among other things. This is why Esports is called Esports; it is Electronic Sports. The incorrect assertion that "Sports" has to be athletic is the cause of this misunderstanding, and over time our own laziness and forgetting the nature of things has even led to dictionaries saying "especially of the athletic variety" due to us naturally thinking of athletic sports when someone mentions it.
There is an interesting video on this entitled "Are Esports real sports and does it even matter?":
Thank you for that link Yaevindusk. That video explains it better than i ever could. As I explained in one of my very first post, gaming is an eSport, and it is called an eSport in name only although many categorize it as competitive gaming, which is actually a more accurate description for the activity. What it is not, is a sport in the traditional sense of the word. And like the narrator says in the video, no one with any real knowledge of the subject attempts to say it is so. It is an eSport, not a sport. There is a distinct difference between the two.
It's kind of funny watching you rant about this and keep saying things like the part in red. I'm curious if you even comprehend what the definition of the word sport actually is. Here are a few excerpts:
- a contest or game in which people do certain physical activities according to a specific set of rules and compete against each other
- a physical activity (such as hunting, fishing, running, swimming, etc.) that is done for enjoyment
- participating in an activity (such as hunting or fishing) for enjoyment rather than as a job or for food for survival
Nowhere does it say that it requires X amount of physical exertion. There are a large variety of sports, all of which require varying degrees of physical exertion. Bowling and golf for example require a tiny fraction of it in comparison to something like soccer or football.
Competitive gaming fits the definition of a sport just fine. The part you seem to be hung up on is the difference between sport and esport, which is nothing more than semantics. It's not called an esport BECAUSE it isn't a sport. It's called an esport for the same reason that many things involving the internet have prefixes or suffixes added to them because they are a technology based thing. Just like we have mail vs email or trading vs etrading.
Theyre the same thing, only in electronic form. Of course if history had been ass backwards and we had the internet way back when these words were invented, they would have always been called simply sports, trading, mail, etc. Unfortunately the internet wasn't around many centuries ago when they were created, so now we use things like esport and email to differentiate between the 2.
Comments
Ok, so let me get this straight. According to you, a gamer who is playing a video game as a professional is playing a sport but a novice playing the same video game is a hobbyist? Make up your mind, is it a sport or is it a hobby? Because then it would stand to reason that non-professional people playing basketball are playing a hobby and not a sport, unless they at some point make it into the NBA, at which time they are no longer playing a hobby, and engaged in a sport.
... And you say I'm the one making the false distinction?
Listen partner, a sport is not dictated by the level of expertise in that activity, but by the activity itself. So if a sport is a sport when a professional is engaged in it, then it is a sport when a novice is engaged in it. It can not be a hobby when played by a novice and then called a sport when played by professionals. Again, according to you, when we as "novice" video gamers are playing an FPS, we are couch potatoes doing it is a hobby, unless we begin doing it professionally, at which time we then become world class athletes playing a sport.
uh huh. Gotcha.
Now you may want to be led by the nose by this Korean Olympic Committee when they tell you that playing a video game is a sport, and you may want to believe some in the U.S Gov't when they say that eSport video gamers are athletes, but common sense says otherwise. In other words, you can chose to be a sheep and be led by the nose and believe what a bunch of morons are saying, even though common sense says otherwise, or you can begin thinking for yourself and be a leader. Unfortunately for the world, we have an over abundance of the former and not enough of the latter. If we had more of the latter, the world wouldn't have people like the ones in this Korean Olympic Committee, or in the U.S. Gov't, saying nonsense like video gamers are athletes playing a sport. That would be funny, if it wasn't so sad.
I doubt it, since they likely don't have issues from being abandoned and neglected as a child they're free to share their opinions in a fairly anonymous space. You know, instead of figuratively clamoring upon to a roof top and shouting "Me too! Everyone on the internet look at me! You better ask me some questions I am "different" and I have opinions about stuff!" or harassing publicly known figures as if said publicly known figures give a rat's ass about you and your dumb little dime-a-dozen internet blog.
Seems like another clueless person about Gamergate, and the movement is still alive and well moving forward. Hopefully we can rid ourselves of his kind of thinking with time as well.
Scratch that, he seems clueless in general.
You say "common sense says otherwise" but you dictate a sport as something that requires you to be out of a seated position. Congrats on that logic. Sorry racecar drivers, paralympic atheltes in a wheelchair, sledge hockey players, hunters. Look, I'm not trying to convince you that you need to be in peak physical condition, or that eSports require you to even leave the house. I'm saying that there are sports which are classified as sports which require less physical and/or mental ability.
Here's a serious question that will tell me a lot about where your head is. Then I can determine whether or not to even entertain any sort of debate on this. Do you believe that ANYONE could become a professional eSport player if they invested enough time?
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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I burst out laughing when he tried to sell himself as a football player and having to make adjustments to the speed of the game. He's just repeating things real football players say. His job was "catch ball, kick ball". Go look up some old articles from when he played. He has a long history of shooting his mouth because he thought he was more important than he was. Another in a long line of idiotic kickers.
___________________________
Have flask; will travel.
Race car drivers, paralympic athletes, sledge hockey players and hunters are all engaged in a competitive first hand, original real life activity requiring real-time full body muscle memory and whole body physical coordination to accomplish their objectives. Many of which, mind you, involve some type of measurable danger making them susceptible to a real risk of bodily injury. They are not watching a computer screen, emulating, or otherwise role playing fake people in a video game to accomplish their goal. In essence, if there is an athlete involved in this scenario at all, it is the pixel characters on the screen, and we know how preposterous that sounds since pixels character can not be athletes. And therein lies the difference.
How many other sports can you mention that the athlete is sitting on his/her couch in front of a computer/TV screen, with controller in hand, moving characters created from pixels to accomplish a task. That's not sporting, that's gaming by every definition of the word. Twitch control and knowledge of game functions (map familiarity, weapon effects, class abilities) is really all a gamer requires to be successful. Having exceptional twitch control is certainly an asset, but that an athlete does not make. There are many RL professions requiring good twitch control of which none are considered a sport, and those performing them are not considered athletes. And many of them are just as competitive as video gaming is to gamers. A clerk typist, for example, requires exceptional twitch control to be able to type 100 words per minute but that does not make that clerk an athlete, nor did they engage in a sport when they typed the weekly agenda for their boss this morning. Pianist, guitarists, and a host of other musicians also fall into the spectrum of possessing outstanding twitch control ability.
Look, all I am asking you to do is to not be guided by self serving praise simply because you may be a gamer, and apply common sense and logic into this scenario. Yes, we love to game, but lets not delude ourselves into believing that we are suddenly world class athletes playing a sport simply because we have exceptional twitch control and are able to maneuver our fingers really well around a keyboard/mouse, or a game controller. Some of us being better than others because we posses greater twitch control, particularly those of us who are younger, and some of us because we are just smarter gamers overall. We are gamers playing a hobby we enjoy. Merely that and nothing more. But hey, if it makes you feel good to call yourself an athlete playing a sport because you are a gamer and love playing video games, then have at it Champ. Who am I to burst your bubble.
That said, I am not very optimistic that this would make any sense to anyone believing that chess is a sport, simply because the Korean Olympic Committee declared it so. And if by chance all you are telling me is that you have watered down the definition of the word "sport" to mean something other than what it was originally intended, than that's a whole different story and a very slippery slope indeed. In that case, we can all now be considered athletes playing our own individual sport regardless of what we do in life. In this way no one is offended, and everyone is happy. And isn't that what the world has come to now days.
It's no different than a person playing football in their backyard with friends, versus someone playing football competitively in high school, college or as a professional. A person playing non-professionally in their backyard does not disqualify football as a sport. You chose the example of the person playing video games on their couch to disqualify video games as a sport. Bad example, bad conclusion.
But a more relevant example would be Chess. People playing Chess against each other online or in their homes would not consider that they are playing a "Sport". Most of them wouldn't I don't think. However, professional Chess players, especially those playing Olympic Chess are considered to be playing a Sport. The context changes how the activity is considered. Same thing for Poker, which is apparently an Olympic sport as well. If you're in Vegas, gambling to win, you're not really considered to be playing a Sport, but if you're at the Olympics, you are. Same thing with Billiards. Context changes how the activity is viewed.
Video games haven't made it to the Olympics and it will be years before they do, but the context of how the game is being played will change how people consider what they're doing. Professional leagues, played as they are in South Korea are considered Sports. People playing video games on their couch as a leisure activity are not.
Ok so, first of all, there are eSport events which are, very much, first hand. There are events where they sell 30,000+ physical seats for people to come and watch these people....who are ACTUALLY there in person. Secondly, there is NOT full-body muscle memory required for racing, specifically, or paralympics for that matter (since they are literally unable to create that muscle memory). Race car drivers are actually restrained. So you could make the argument that a gamer would actually use more muscle memory than a race car driver. There is also strategy (in many competitive games) and mental and physical coordination required. Each game played is not pre-determined like, say, turning left. The element of danger has NOTHING to do with defining a sport. Even in racing, there are fewer deaths in an entire year than any typical day on our roadways. That doesn't mean that people who are driving to work are participating in sport. Also, if you're delivering pizzas, you also don't qualify as being involved in sport, even though you are racing to get a pizza to a house before time is up.
Why is it that you assume that these gamers are sitting on their couch? They have very specific setups, routines, desks, etc. Might be likened to setting up a car to race, actually. Twitch abilities most definitely DO help an eSport gamer. I'm sure that there are plenty of people who have superior twitch reflexes in every day jobs, too. You know who else has everyday jobs with extraordinary abilities? Longest Drive competitors. These guys can drive the ball further than any professional golfer, but they are rare (if ever) on the professional tour. Why? Because it requires more skill, knowledge, and ability. It's not singular. If it was, they'd be the best, because they hit the ball best.
I would be willing to concede on calling them "Athletes" since that implies physical fitness. Sport, though, is broader. Unless they redefine sport, in which case I'd be fine with that. However, there are plenty which require as much, or less, physical or mental superiority than playing a video game. In fact, I would guarantee that there are Olympic Sports which require less physical and mental aptitude than Professional Gaming.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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This is honestly just a simple case of someone famous using a term incorrectly. eSports was never meant to represent gamers as athletes but was coined to refer to the competitive nature of playing games at large scale events.
i.e. like a sporting event
I think calling gamers athletes because of the term esport is a bit of a step towards false logic.
I don't know what point you are making by pointing out that a person playing non-professional football in their back yard does not disqualify it as a sport, since that is the point that I am making. The important point that you are failing to adress, is how can it possible for an activity to NOT be considered a sport while played in the house or on any occasion not being performed on a professional level, but would then become a sport only when played professionally. Again, a sport is not dictated by the level of expertise in the activity, but by the activity itself. So if a sport is a sport when a professional is engaged in it, then it is a sport when a novice is engaged in it. The inability for you to understand this simple concept, along with your acknowledgement that chess is not a sport when played at home, but is considered a sport when played professional, is not only dumbfounding, it wreaks of your not having a very good understanding, or applying a reasonable amount of common sense, into the subject at hand.
Equally disturbing is your factual assertion that poker is a sport, when in fact it is a highly controversial position being pandered by a very small but select group of people in an effort to "sportify" poker. This position is not a popular one, and only shared by those who would seek to gain from it. Again, just because there are a select group of people calling it so, does not make it so. In all walks of life, there will always be groups of people pushing agendas. This is one of them. The large majority of people do not classify chess, poker, and gambling as sports. It would be naive to believe that we could eventually come to agreement on a subject like this. You and a select few happen to believe these to be sports. The majority do not. That said, let's just agree to disagree, Mr. World Class Athlete Chess Player.
Actually, if you're talking about disturbing assertions about sports, then see the highlighted one above. Unfortunately your primary focus is on the physical prowess of an athlete. However, in reality, the physical component as a factor on the athletes overall performance is relatively small by comparison. Their physical performance accounts for less than 50% of their overall performance. Oh and that's for Marathon runners. Basketball/Baseball players are more like 25% to 33% physical, the rest is non-physical attributes. Do some science and it'll tell you that.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Dude, my primary focus is that it is either a sport or its not. Its really just that simple. On the one hand, it can't be considered just a gaming hobby if a novice is engaged in it, and on the other hand, a sport if a professional is engaged in it. Stop it with the word semantics. Is it just a gaming hobby, or is it a sport? Which one is it? It can't be both.
"Anyone who has ever picked up something they dropped is a professional weightlifter." - Chris Kluweless
Thanks for the laugh. I needed that.
/laughs
It's not semantics. Sports are, literally, more mental than physical. The physical component of a sport is actually a very small percentage of the overall performance of that athlete. Baseball, basketball and football are all more than two thirds mental and there are plenty of sports training books out there which will tell you that. It's the WHOLE reason that Sports Psychologist is even a thing!!!
Gaming could be considered either. Same could be said for anything, though. A hobby is something that you do with your spare time. So throwing the ball around in the yard is a hobby. It sure as hell isn't a sport. Sport is defined by a couple major components, competition and physical exertion. If you can prove, definitively, that someone playing a professional video game tournament is exerting themselves less than each official Olympic Sport then I'll relent. Period. Fact is that I know that, even at a physical level, there is more physical exertion in professional gaming than with some Olympic Sports.
Oh and I actually came across this article which was interesting while I was looking for physical exertion of eAthletes.
By definition, a video game immerses the player in a make-believe worlds, but the work of a professional gamer is hardly child's play. The international competitor must have the focus of a Buddhist monk and the hand-eye coordination of a neurosurgeon in order to defeat rival combatants in contests that typically last about 20 minutes. During that time, a gamer's heart rate can race to 160 beats per minute (equivalent to that of pro basketball player), while both hands work the mouse and keyboard at speeds of about 500 clicks per minute. They may be sitting down in a chair, but the sweat that pours off them suggests they're anything but couch potatoes.
500 clicks per minute and a 160 heartbeat for a sustained 20 minute period? Sorry, but that would be enough to kill most North Americans, with their Mac sauce blood.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
When two sides clash that are born from the internet -- with no real leaders save for "celebrities" -- there is no intelligent debate. Just two sides trying to slander the other and targeting the actions of most volatile of people who claim to be members, while ignoring the actual points made by each side.
I've been a feminist for upwards of ten years now and understand what it means to be such. The troubles that stereotypes cause in real life and the harassment thereof for both men and women. Which was what feminism was all about -- breaking stereotypes in general rather than just for women. Also not oppressing others with your thoughts, or wanting to take something away. It was through education of the populace and generations, and not attacking artistic freedoms or personal freedoms. Now I am seeing self-proclaimed feminists who can't seem to decipher reality from fiction, who attack others and then play the victim... all the while cashing in on this con act. These individuals have no respect for feminism, but only see the dollar sign their click bait has. While I went to various schools for differing specializations (at one point even games design and business / marketing), one of those degrees was for Social Sciences, History out of a passion for said topic. As an amateur Historian, I am absolutely flabbergasted that anyone wants to censor works of modern art. This is tantamount to wanting to burn books in the past simply because they have words one person or group does not believe in. Or burning down entire art museums for the same reason, perhaps during war.
In my opinion, no intelligent or educated person would want artistic freedoms changed. In addition, it's our responsibility as adults to understand what is real and what is not. To know context of things. To understand the idea of writings and fantasy and alternate universes, and that our petty squabbles have no relevance in said creative expressions. Instead of chasing virtual things that are made up, attention should be spent on the real world. But maybe I'm just old fashioned.
That said, I've done my best to stay away from "Modern Feminism" and "GamersGate" for some time now. This is mainly by design, as I don't want to be an idiot who simply picks a side and says "Oh this side is evil," or whatnot without having a freakin' clue as to what I'm talking about (and then get cannibalize the side they originally wanted the attention of for their own means when their own artistic freedoms are attacked). That said, this has allowed me to see the true claims of those who are real benefactors of their respected groups. There is little wrong with GamersGate. There is little wrong with actual Feminism. Everything is wrong for the extremists on both sides who do nothing but slander each other as a whole, as well as people just learning one thing or getting convinced by one side without doing some actual f'ing research (by at least looking at the good of each side, rather than just the bad of one).
You are intentionally dodging the question. You must be a politician. And a poor one at that lol
Gaming is either a sport or it isn't. Which one is it? If it is then we are all athletes playing a sport when we are playing a game on our computers. You are saying nothing when stating that sports are more mental than physical. I am fully cognizant that mental psyche plays a huge part in sports. Like wise, no one is denying that a large portion of sporting is defined by competition and physical exertion. Those major components of mental toughness, competition, and physical exertion, however, are present in almost everything we do in life and most of them have nothing at all to do with sports.
So can we do away with the nonsense rhetoric and get to the crux of the matter.
So answer the question, Mr. World Class Athlete Chess player. Is gaming a sport or is it not? Yes or no. If your contention is that it is, then my 7 year old nephew is an athlete, and he is playing a sport when playing his favorite game of Chutes and Ladders in my uncles computer. He is very competitive and exerts himself enormously. I can tell by his focused huffing and puffing and occasional stomping and falling to the ground when things don't go his way.
So is my little nephew an athlete playing a sport now, or does he have to wait until ... oh I don't know, please tell me ... before he can be acknowledged as a world class athlete playing a sport?
P.S: It pleases me to read that you are frantically searching the internet for answers. Please continue searching. That caption brings nothing to the discussion. No one is denying any of that. My question stands, and remains unanswered.
People are arguing for nothing at all, really. Though we use the word "sports" out of laziness, the actual term some people are referring to is "Athletic sports" when referring to such things as Football among other things. This is why Esports is called Esports; it is Electronic Sports. The incorrect assertion that "Sports" has to be athletic is the cause of this misunderstanding, and over time our own laziness and forgetting the nature of things has even led to dictionaries saying "especially of the athletic variety" due to us naturally thinking of athletic sports when someone mentions it.
There is an interesting video on this entitled "Are Esports real sports and does it even matter?":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eD7zacG39I
Thank you for that link Yaevindusk. That video explains it better than i ever could. As I explained in one of my very first post, gaming is an eSport, and it is called an eSport in name only although many categorize it as competitive gaming, which is actually a more accurate description for the activity. What it is not, is a sport in the traditional sense of the word. And like the narrator says in the video, no one with any real knowledge of the subject attempts to say it is so. It is an eSport, not a sport. There is a distinct difference between the two.
"Kluwe: For all intents and purposes, the movement itself is over, but the people within that movement who caused the movement to be one of harassment are still very much alive and kicking. They are still very much trying to find people to harass."
Ah, confirmed for being an idiot who doesn't understand what GG is.
No problem! In my opinion, "sports" is something people toss around when the following is met:
Does it make money?
Does it have an audience?
Is it competitive?
If all three check boxes are made, the word "sports" is tossed in as it is an indicator of being competitive and thus people who enjoy watching competition (or the audience that wants to watch it) know where to go.
"Sports" is about where the money is now. Therefore, in business terms -- not so much traditional (which is "athletic sports" now) -- a sport could be something like "Motor Sports" or racing, as the video described. They make a distinction that it is not "athletic" sports, yet Nascar is widely considered a sport in its own right despite us normal people being able to enter a car and drive around in loops ourselves. The difference is the money, the competitive nature and the separation of how it is conducted (I.E. in a professional environment via tournaments, different atmospheres, rules, etc. and that people spend 12 hours a day training in "gaming houses", for example). Dedication to their craft is also the difference there.
It's kind of funny watching you rant about this and keep saying things like the part in red. I'm curious if you even comprehend what the definition of the word sport actually is. Here are a few excerpts:
- a contest or game in which people do certain physical activities according to a specific set of rules and compete against each other
- a physical activity (such as hunting, fishing, running, swimming, etc.) that is done for enjoyment
- participating in an activity (such as hunting or fishing) for enjoyment rather than as a job or for food for survival
Nowhere does it say that it requires X amount of physical exertion. There are a large variety of sports, all of which require varying degrees of physical exertion. Bowling and golf for example require a tiny fraction of it in comparison to something like soccer or football.
Competitive gaming fits the definition of a sport just fine. The part you seem to be hung up on is the difference between sport and esport, which is nothing more than semantics. It's not called an esport BECAUSE it isn't a sport. It's called an esport for the same reason that many things involving the internet have prefixes or suffixes added to them because they are a technology based thing. Just like we have mail vs email or trading vs etrading.
Theyre the same thing, only in electronic form. Of course if history had been ass backwards and we had the internet way back when these words were invented, they would have always been called simply sports, trading, mail, etc. Unfortunately the internet wasn't around many centuries ago when they were created, so now we use things like esport and email to differentiate between the 2.